Brexit Deal agreed ( updated )

[Unknown user]

6 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

mate you're frantically combing goolge to find an argument which backs up your spurious claims that the only way to have a functioning water supply was with private money. Scottish water blows that clean out the water so to speak. 

 

Furthermore Thatcher and her ministers sold off anything of value and we've all paid the price ever since. Power, communications, transportation. All of the national infrastructure that a modern country needs, all in private hands, none of it being invested in. 

 

Well, the state doesn't have any money you see

[Beni]

How is this still going?  

Being ragdolled right left and centre must eventually overcome the discomfort of admitting you've made stuff up.

 

[WorldChampions1902]

9 hours ago, NANOJAMBO said:

Can you get back to me on how Scotland managed to deliver clean water in line with EU directives  without privatisation ? 

He won’t. Because as we all know, once you recognise the Financial and operational successes of public owned Scottish Water and contrast it with the nationalised disasters of the English water suppliers, it demolishes the privatisation argument (if you have one). Better to keep on regurgitating Daily Mail and Express bilge (excuse the pun).

[NANOJAMBO]

7 minutes ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

He won’t. Because as we all know, once you recognise the Financial and operational successes of public owned Scottish Water and contrast it with the nationalised disasters of the English water suppliers, it demolishes the privatisation argument (if you have one). Better to keep on regurgitating Daily Mail and Express bilge (excuse the pun).

I'll keep asking him very time he responds. 

[NANOJAMBO]

1 hour ago, Beni said:

How is this still going?  

Being ragdolled right left and centre must eventually overcome the discomfort of admitting you've made stuff up.

 

Tis but a wound !!! 😄

Edited November 1, 2021 by NANOJAMBO

[WorldChampions1902]

Back on topic…….

 

[Ked]

2 hours ago, ri Alban said:

Aw naw, Scotland is running out of water anaw, noo .

Currently 66% of capacity.

Above average use of late.

It's a precious resource and it is a feather in the cap of the SG that they stopped fracking.

We take our water for granted though and we should all play a part in being careful.

 

Anyone know why there has been above average use?

 

[NANOJAMBO]

1 hour ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Correcting your claim is not "whataboutery", it's a presentation of facts.

Scottish water provision is partially privatised ,allowing greater investment, contrary to your claim.

I've proved my point so we're going no further with this. Bye for now

So just to be clear , Thatcher 100%  sold off the water companies in England cos ger government didn't have any money to pay for the work needed but  in Scotland (which certainly doesn't have the finacial resources of England, it wasn't ).

You've haven't proved anything*. In fact you got another roasting 

 

* I'll bet you were furiously googling the financial make up of Scottish Water last night before posting this. 

 

Shame you still didn't come across this -

The claim that Scotland's water is publicly owned is essentially accurate. The water supply is owned by state-owned Scottish Water, who supply the vast majority of Scotland. However, in 2005 the non-household market was opened up to private sector competition

 

PS Did the Scottish government get any of the proceeds of this "partial" privatisation 

 

Bye for now !!!!

[Enzo Chiefo]

So, in conclusion, it's impossible to argue intellectually with zealots who see everything through the prism of Scoaaatland GOOD, England,  Thatcher, Boris, UK, WM BAAAAD.

I've presented the facts which, unfortunately for the tartan skirted groovy gang, trumps ideology. 👍

[Enzo Chiefo]

10 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

I'll keep asking him very time he responds. 

Because it's partially privatised and benefits from additional investment that the State can't provide.

Just to reiterate, the State does NOT have money. It comes from us.

[Unknown user]

5 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

So, in conclusion, it's impossible to argue intellectually with zealots who see everything through the prism of Scoaaatland GOOD, England,  Thatcher, Boris, UK, WM BAAAAD.

I've presented the facts which, unfortunately for the tartan skirted groovy gang, trumps ideology. 👍

 

It's impossible for you to argue intellectually, I'll give you that.

[NANOJAMBO]

4 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Because it's partially privatised and benefits from additional investment that the State can't provide.

Just to reiterate, the State does NOT have money. It comes from us.

Scottish water was partially privatised SIXTEEN years after Thatcher did it in England.  So to claim they needed the money is complete bullshit. And let's be clear , it was the market that was opened up to competition it wasn't a straight (partial) privatisation. 

 

Mate, it's irrelevant. You just got another beating. 

 

Next topic !!

[NANOJAMBO]

9 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Because it's partially privatised and benefits from additional investment that the State can't provide.      Not true , in Thatcher's case - you've been told this already by others along with examples of the numerous other sell-offs at the time. 

Just to reiterate, the State does NOT have money.  More semantics & whataboutery.

 

[NANOJAMBO]

2 hours ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Correcting your claim is not "whataboutery", it's a presentation of facts.

Scottish water provision is partially privatised ,allowing greater investment, contrary to your claim.

I've proved my point so we're going no further with this. Bye for now

"Scottish water provision is partially privatised"  ... you sure ? 

 

You don't seem to know the difference between opening up a market to competition and privatisation - because they are most definitely NOT the same thing. Scottish water was not / is not privatised in any form. 

 

Here's some facts for you - 

 

The authority was founded in 2002 by a merger of West of Scotland Water Authority, East of Scotland Water Authority and North of Scotland Water Authority under the Water Industry (Scotland) Act 2002, an Act of the Scottish Parliament.^[9] Because 100 percent of it is owned by the Scottish Government it is considered a statutory corporation.^[10]

 

 It has an annual turnover of around £1bn and is funded by charges paid by its customers.

 

Part of its long term capital expenditure is funded by long term loans from the Scottish Government.

 

 

 

Also, from the 19/20 audit of scottish water...

 

funded largely from charges to customers, and from government loans approved by the Scottish ministers

[XB52]

1 hour ago, Ked said:

Currently 66% of capacity.

Above average use of late.

It's a precious resource and it is a feather in the cap of the SG that they stopped fracking.

We take our water for granted though and we should all play a part in being careful.

 

Anyone know why there has been above average use?

 

You might have missed it but there's been a wee thing called Covid, pretty sure it's been on the news

[Gizmo]

11 hours ago, NANOJAMBO said:

Mate , you're good at insulting peole but quite poor at debating your own posts or supporting them with evidence (or contradicting others  with any contra source). You resort to insults when your idiotic ranting gets demolished - which it does frequently. 

 

 Just take my advice; stay off this thread 👍

He's been owned so many times, all he has left is bluster, ad hominems, sneering and gaslighting. He should stay off the internet. 

[Enzo Chiefo]

2 hours ago, NANOJAMBO said:

"Scottish water provision is partially privatised"  ... you sure ? 

 

You don't seem to know the difference between opening up a market to competition and privatisation - because they are most definitely NOT the same thing. Scottish water was not / is not privatised in any form. 

 

Here's some facts for you - 

 

The authority was founded in 2002 by a merger of West of Scotland Water Authority, East of Scotland Water Authority and North of Scotland Water Authority under the Water Industry (Scotland) Act 2002, an Act of the Scottish Parliament.^[9] Because 100 percent of it is owned by the Scottish Government it is considered a statutory corporation.^[10]

 

 It has an annual turnover of around £1bn and is funded by charges paid by its customers.

 

Part of its long term capital expenditure is funded by long term loans from the Scottish Government.

 

 

 

Also, from the 19/20 audit of scottish water...

 

funded largely from charges to customers, and from government loans approved by the Scottish ministers

Mate, you're scrambling out Google making yourself more and more ridiculous in the process.

"Opening up the market" is privatisation, as is Anglian Water providing water treatment services to all public sector buildings in Scotland, as is the use of PFI to build water treatment centres.

So STOP trawling about the internet looking for get out clauses.

 

You mention "Next Topic" but, for ideological Nats the next topic is the same. The topic is irrelevant- the outcome is always freeedumb, England Baaad, Scotland, fan dabby dozie.. You then have to trawl social media to find all sorts of conspiracy theories to fit the outcome you have want.

It's pathetic.

 

The only way to defeat ideologically blinkered arguments is to chisel away at it with facts. But I've wasted too much time already doing that so I'll leave you to your echo chamber and bid you farewell.

 

[Alex Kintner]

16 hours ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Which is a sad indictment,  given his infantile posting style and intolerance of other opinions.  If he dishes it out, he gets it back. Maybe a lesson for him.

Posted without an iota of self-awareness. 
 

Or should I say an iota of self-awaaaareness.

[NANOJAMBO]

3 minutes ago, Alex Kintner said:

Posted without an iota of self-awareness. 
 

Or should I say an iota of self-awaaaareness.

😅

[NANOJAMBO]

37 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Mate, you're scrambling out Google making yourself more and more ridiculous in the process.

"Opening up the market" is privatisation, as is Anglian Water providing water treatment services to all public sector buildings in Scotland, as is the use of PFI to build water treatment centres.

So STOP trawling about the internet looking for get out clauses.

 

You mention "Next Topic" but, for ideological Nats the next topic is the same. The topic is irrelevant- the outcome is always freeedumb, England Baaad, Scotland, fan dabby dozie.. You then have to trawl social media to find all sorts of conspiracy theories to fit the outcome you have want.

It's pathetic.

 

The only way to defeat ideologically blinkered arguments is to chisel away at it with facts. But I've wasted too much time already doing that so I'll leave you to your echo chamber and bid you farewell.

 

Ok, you persist in post drivel so I'm happy to keep on proving you wrong .

So here we go again.

 

 

"Opening up the market" is privatisation

privatisation

1. the transfer of a business, industry, or service from public to private ownership and control.

   "the workers are opposing the privatization of the national rail company"

 

 

[Victorian]

Think that was a tactical retreat while playing the bugle of victory.  

[NANOJAMBO]

1 hour ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Mate, you're scrambling out Google making yourself more and more ridiculous in the process.

"Opening up the market" is privatisation, as is Anglian Water providing water treatment services to all public sector buildings in Scotland, as is the use of PFI to build water treatment centres.

So STOP trawling about the internet looking for get out clauses. ."   what you really mean is "stop doing research and presenting me with numerous facts that tear me a new arsehole ".  Always a pleasure. 

 

You mention "Next Topic" but, for ideological Nats the next topic is the same. I'm not a "Nat" - I've no time for the SNP. But this is pure deflection anyway.

The topic is irrelevant- the outcome is always freeedumb, England Baaad, Scotland, fan dabby dozie.. I'm not talking about Eng/Sco - I'm talking about your persistence in presenring a false position as truth , none of which you supprt with data. 

 

You then have to trawl social media to find all sorts of conspiracy theories to fit the outcome you have want.

Feck me, now a professional & public audit is a conspiracy theory. 

It's pathetic. Is it though ? 

 

The only way to defeat ideologically blinkered arguments is to chisel away at it with facts.

That's correct - and  I've given you lots of facts 

 

But I've wasted too much time already doing that so I'll leave you to your echo chamber and bid you farewell.

Don't be so harsh on yourself. You've learned that Scottiah water isn't privatised and laso the difference between privatisation and market competition. 

 

 

Edited November 1, 2021 by NANOJAMBO

[The Mighty Thor]

5 hours ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

I've presented the facts

[Enzo Chiefo]

53 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

 

Honestly, if you don't understand that "opening up the market" is exactly what privatisation is, then you are beyond redemption. 

It's free market competition which in central govt terms, means it's not nationalised.

The fact that you had to Google a definition tells me that I'm wasting my time here.

Perhaps you could email the COE of Anglian Water and tell him that his company are not private.

[Ked]

4 hours ago, XB52 said:

You might have missed it but there's been a wee thing called Covid, pretty sure it's been on the news

100 million litres extra a day buddy.

Quite a lot of extra water.

But thanks for your answer I just dont see how the covid would apply......

 

On second thoughts perhaps the extra handwashing still though it's a lot.

[Ked]

1 hour ago, Victorian said:

Think that was a tactical retreat while playing the bugle of victory.  

😂

[NANOJAMBO]

6 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Honestly, if you don't understand that "opening up the market" is exactly what privatisation is, then you are beyond redemption. 

 

It's free market competition which in central govt terms, means it's not nationalised.

The fact that you had to Google a definition tells me that I'm wasting my time here.

Perhaps you could email the COE of Anglian Water and tell him that his company are not private.

Nice insults , but you're still wrong.

I already showed you Scottish water is not privatised , it's 100% owned by Scot Gov and you still lie about it and insist it's privatised. 

 

I gave you sources from the 19/20 audit* of Scottish water that sets put how it's funded from customers and  government loans (not a word about private investment/share holders ) and you still lie about it. 

*Which you labelled  a "conspiracy theory". 

 

You continue to deflect (eg ANglian water) when we are very specifically talking about Scotland. 

 

As for the Google definition : choose any definition from any source you like, fact is, it clearly demonstrates that you are talking nonsense. Privatisation is not competition. Privatisation is the transfer of a publicly owned asset to a private body - and that has not happened with Scottish water. 

 

 

[Gizmo]

2 hours ago, Victorian said:

Think that was a tactical retreat while playing the bugle of victory.  

 

[Enzo Chiefo]

Just now, NANOJAMBO said:

Nice insults , but you're still wrong.

I already showed you Scottish water is not privatised , it's 100% owned by Scot Gov and you still lie about it and insist it's privatised. 

 

I gave you sources from the 19/20 audit* of Scottish water that sets put how it's funded from customers and  government loans (not a word about private investment/share holders ) and you still lie about it. 

*Which you labelled  a "conspiracy theory". 

 

You continue to deflect (eg ANglian water) when we are very specifically talking about Scotland. 

 

As for the Google definition : choose any definition from any source you like, fact is, it clearly demonstrates that you are talking nonsense. Privatisation is not competition. Privatisation is the transfer of a publicly owned asset to a private body - and that has not happened with Scottish water. 

 

 

Mate, you're dancing on the head of an ideoligical pin here. "Scottish Water" is more than the stuff that flows from the tap. I've already pointed out that it is partially privatised.

The water treatment service contract for all public service buildings in Scotland,  was awarded to a private English company- Anglian Water. That, my friend,  is privatisation of a part of the water service.

Business customers  - I should know, as I was one of them- can choose from a number of private companies that supply the water.

The reason that part is not sold to one particular company is because it's a service and it's "awarded" or opened-up to any number of private companies. That IS privatisation. 

 

So, part of the Scottish water provision is, indeed, privatised. That is most definitely my last word on what is, fast becoming, a tedious debate.

 

[jamboy1982]

I see enzo is back spouting enough sheeite to fill an English river! 

[The Mighty Thor]

15 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Mate, you're dancing on the head of an ideoligical pin here. "Scottish Water" is more than the stuff that flows from the tap. I've already pointed out that it is partially privatised.

The water treatment service contract for all public service buildings in Scotland,  was awarded to a private English company- Anglian Water. That, my friend,  is privatisation of a part of the water service.

Business customers  - I should know, as I was one of them- can choose from a number of private companies that supply the water.

The reason that part is not sold to one particular company is because it's a service and it's "awarded" or opened-up to any number of private companies. That IS privatisation. 

 

So, part of the Scottish water provision is, indeed, privatised. That is most definitely my last word on what is, fast becoming, a tedious debate.

 

I assume you are talking about the 4 year deal awarded to Anglian water to supply water to Scottish schools, council buildings and hospitals. In 2015.

 

You're confusing competition with privatisation. 

 

So part of the provision of water services within Scotland for non-domestic customers is open to competition, which is of course very different to saying that 'Scottish Water' has been privatised, which it has not.

[Mysterion]

18 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Mate, you're dancing on the head of an ideoligical pin here. "Scottish Water" is more than the stuff that flows from the tap. I've already pointed out that it is partially privatised.

The water treatment service contract for all public service buildings in Scotland,  was awarded to a private English company- Anglian Water. That, my friend,  is privatisation of a part of the water service.

Business customers  - I should know, as I was one of them- can choose from a number of private companies that supply the water.

The reason that part is not sold to one particular company is because it's a service and it's "awarded" or opened-up to any number of private companies. That IS privatisation. 

 

So, part of the Scottish water provision is, indeed, privatised. That is most definitely my last word on what is, fast becoming, a tedious debate.

 

 

Your point really stems on the difference between a public company being sold off to the private sector versus a public company employing outside resources to deliver one aspect of its service. 

 

It's pretty tenuous at best and trying to spin the definition of privatisation is very watered down argument. 

 

 

 

 

[NANOJAMBO]

1 minute ago, Mysterion said:

 

Your point really stems on the difference between a public company being sold off to the private sector versus a public company employing outside resources to deliver one aspect of its service. 

 

It's pretty tenuous at best and trying to spin the definition of privatisation is very watered down argument. 

 

 

 

 

😄

[Mysterion]

5 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

I assume you are talking about the 4 year deal awarded to Anglian water to supply water to Scottish schools, council buildings and hospitals. In 2015.

 

The deal appears to be a meter reading and billing function on behalf of Scottish Water. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-34457178

 

It's purpose to measure and bill accurately in order to save money.

Some call it outsourcing but apparently "the Chiefo" has bent space and time (and a dictionary) to make out it's proof of privatisation. 

Edited November 1, 2021 by Mysterion

[ri Alban]

7 hours ago, Ked said:

Currently 66% of capacity.

Above average use of late.

It's a precious resource and it is a feather in the cap of the SG that they stopped fracking.

We take our water for granted though and we should all play a part in being careful.

 

Anyone know why there has been above average use?

 

And have plenty in reserve, if we need it.

[ri Alban]

Looks like Enzo's soul has been privatised by Nano.

[SE16 3LN]

According to Sepa, Scotland's Rivers and Lochs have never been so dirty, or at least I read that in the Herald last week. The JKB Nationalists must have a greater knowledge than Sepa.

[Enzo Chiefo]

17 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

I assume you are talking about the 4 year deal awarded to Anglian water to supply water to Scottish schools, council buildings and hospitals. In 2015.

 

You're confusing competition with privatisation. 

 

So part of the provision of water services within Scotland for non-domestic customers is open to competition, which is of course very different to saying that 'Scottish Water' has been privatised, which it has not.

I never said Scottish Water was privatised, I said parts of the service provision was privatised. And that is correct.

You're confusing a monopoly with competition. Whether a contract is awarded or it's opened up to competition, if private companies are involved then it's classed as privatisation i.e when the service is not fully controlled by the State (nationalisation).

 

If Boris Johnson announced that health service provision in the UK was being "opened up to competition " from American providers, would you be popping on here to reassure us that it wasn't being privatised??

[Unknown user]

 

13 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Whether a contract is awarded or it's opened up to competition, if private companies are involved then it's classed as privatisation i.e when the service is not fully controlled by the State (nationalisation).

 

 

Nope

[coconut doug]

18 minutes ago, SE16 3LN said:

According to Sepa, Scotland's Rivers and Lochs have never been so dirty, or at least I read that in the Herald last week. The JKB Nationalists must have a greater knowledge than Sepa.

 

I would imagine they have a greater knowledge than the Herald. I can also remember when many of our rivers were really dirty and that is not visually the case now. I dare say it depends on what you mean by dirty though.

  Are you able to provide evidence to support your claim?

[Japan Jambo]

3 minutes ago, coconut doug said:

 

I would imagine they have a greater knowledge than the Herald. I can also remember when many of our rivers were really dirty and that is not visually the case now. I dare say it depends on what you mean by dirty though.

  Are you able to provide evidence to support your claim?

 

available on google...

 

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/homenews/19654030.scotlands-worst-polluters-named-and-shamed-leaked-sepa-report-damns-400-sites/

 

[Unknown user]

36 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

Looks like Enzo's soul has been privatised by Nano.

Actually he still owns it, Nano's only been awarded the right to take it over for a while. 

[Unknown user]

36 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

Looks like Enzo's soul has been privatised by Nano.

Actually he still owns it, Nano's only been awarded the right to take it over for a while. 

[SE16 3LN]

7 minutes ago, coconut doug said:

 

I would imagine they have a greater knowledge than the Herald. I can also remember when many of our rivers were really dirty and that is not visually the case now. I dare say it depends on what you mean by dirty though.

  Are you able to provide evidence to support your claim?

Provide evidence to support my claims you muggy *****? I said I read it in the Herald which has more authority than the coconut doug eyesight test 😂.

 

Anyway, Japan has provided the link, decide for yourself.

[Cade]

Meanwhile, back in the real world....

 

Jersey has issued another 50 fishing licences to French boats.

 

 

[Unknown user]

8 minutes ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

available on google...

 

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/homenews/19654030.scotlands-worst-polluters-named-and-shamed-leaked-sepa-report-damns-400-sites/

 

 

@SE16 3LN That says there are 400 industrial sites that need to get their shit together, literally. Where does it say our rivers and lochs have never been so dirty?

[coconut doug]

5 minutes ago, SE16 3LN said:

Provide evidence to support my claims you muggy *****? I said I read it in the Herald which has more authority than the coconut doug eyesight test 😂.

 

Anyway, Japan has provided the link, decide for yourself.

 

I can't open the link. I'm not a subscriber.

 

Like Smithee said -  where does it say the lochs and rivers have never been so dirty? Have you got a quote or does it appear in a Sepa report? 

[SE16 3LN]

 

Can't copy it because I'm not a subscriber either. Actually bought it but here is the headline and first paragraph.

 

https://www.heraldscotland.com/

22nd October

Scotland's rivers and lochs in the worst state on record

By Jamie Mann, The Ferret

 

Scotland’s rivers, lochs, canals and burns are in the worst state on record, with more than 400 damaged by pollution and other problems, according to the latest official analysis. 

 

 

[Enzo Chiefo]

39 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

 

Nope

Good, so you won't be wailing and screeching if American health providers get to compete for the provision of health care in the UK?

It's "opening up the market", "outsourcing" or anyone other euphemism you can find.

 

In reality, whether it's a tangible asset, a manufacturer or a service provider, if the private sector is involved where previously the State was the sole owner or provider, that, old son, is privatisation.  

 

[Enzo Chiefo]

15 minutes ago, SE16 3LN said:

 

Can't copy it because I'm not a subscriber either. Actually bought it but here is the headline and first paragraph.

 

https://www.heraldscotland.com/

22nd October

Scotland's rivers and lochs in the worst state on record

 

By Jamie Mann, The Ferret

 

Scotland’s rivers, lochs, canals and burns are in the worst state on record, with more than 400 damaged by pollution and other problems, according to the latest official analysis. 

 

 

Oh don't hit them with more facts SE16.