Brexit Deal agreed ( updated )

[Unknown user]

2 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Good, so you won't be wailing and screeching if American health providers get to compete for the provision of health care in the UK?

It's "opening up the market", "outsourcing" or anyone other euphemism you can find.

 

In reality, whether it's a tangible asset, a manufacturer or a service provider, if the private sector is involved where previously the State was the sole owner or provider, that, old son, is privatisation.  

 

 

Do you reckon you've saved much face by running down bullshit avenue?

Tell us again how the state doesn't have any money so it can't invest in nationalised industry.

 

In fact, weren't you complaining that the SG should put more money into the nationalised ship builders a while ago?

[ri Alban]

50 minutes ago, Smithee said:

Actually he still owns it, Nano's only been awarded the right to take it over for a while. 

[Enzo Chiefo]

10 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

Do you reckon you've saved much face by running down bullshit avenue?

Tell us again how the state doesn't have any money so it can't invest in nationalised industry.

 

In fact, weren't you complaining that the SG should put more money into the nationalised ship builders a while ago?

No, I never mentioned ship builders.

 

The State doesn't have money, it comes from taxpayers.  It's our money.  Unless they have a secret bank account somewhere? Perhaps you could elaborate on where the State gets it's money? 

 

Nice diversion away from filthy rivers and rat infested Scottish streets though; any update on whether you think competition from US health care providers would constitute "privatisation"?

 

[Unknown user]

1 minute ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

No, I never mentioned ship builders.

 

The State doesn't have money, it comes from taxpayers.  It's our money.  Unless they have a secret bank account somewhere? Perhaps you could elaborate on where the State gets it's money? 

 

Nice diversion away from filthy rivers and rat infested Scottish streets though; any update on whether you think competition from US health care providers would constitute "privatisation"?

 

 

I wasn't talking about the rivers, I asked where the guy was getting it from.

I don't know anything about the claim except the water I see on a daily basis looks great so I'd like to read more if anyone does actually have a source.

 

"The State doesn't have money, it comes from taxpayers."

What does? The money the state has? You're a moron.

[coconut doug]

42 minutes ago, SE16 3LN said:

 

Can't copy it because I'm not a subscriber either. Actually bought it but here is the headline and first paragraph.

 

https://www.heraldscotland.com/

22nd October

Scotland's rivers and lochs in the worst state on record

 

By Jamie Mann, The Ferret

 

Scotland’s rivers, lochs, canals and burns are in the worst state on record, with more than 400 damaged by pollution and other problems, according to the latest official analysis. 

 

 

 

It is an interesting report which shows a slow but gradual improvement in water quality across Scotland for many years. This changes in 2019 when they use new criteria to measure water quality. This is the quote from Sepa 

The number of water bodies awarded a “bad” overall ecology status rose from 187 in 2018 to 410 in 2019 – the highest on record – after Sepa applied its new assessment methods.

Naturally The Herald decontextualised this in their headline to give an inaccurate and bad impression of a Scottish government linked institution. 

[Enzo Chiefo]

14 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

I wasn't talking about the rivers, I asked where the guy was getting it from.

I don't know anything about the claim except the water I see on a daily basis looks great so I'd like to read more if anyone does actually have a source.

 

"The State doesn't have money, it comes from taxpayers."

What does? The money the state has? You're a moron.

Insults appear to be your default but I'll rise above it on this occasion. 

 

When people whinge about more state investment,  govt spending etc they seem to think that the State has their own secret stash, that they can delve into.

They don't.  Ultimately,  it comes from us. The taxpayers are the Govt's income source.

[Unknown user]

6 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Insults appear to be your default but I'll rise above it on this occasion. 

 

When people whinge about more state investment,  govt spending etc they seem to think that the State has their own secret stash, that they can delve into.

They don't.  Ultimately,  it comes from us. The taxpayers are the Govt's income source.

 

So the state does have money then?

[Victorian]

Any argument that the state merely handles money provided by taxpayers is a dishonest characterisation.  Not surprising in the least to see where this is eminating from.  Regardless of who provides the money,  the state still controls it.  The state has the franchise and consent of the people to mandate people to provide the tax pounds.  It has the power to adjust the portfolio of ways the tax is collected.  Most importantly,  it has the power to decide how the tax pounds are spent and invested.  The state has the money.  The fact that a lot of it used to 'belong' to individuals is irrelevant.

 

A dishonest,  cowardly and morally bankrupt avoidance of the important point.

Edited November 1, 2021 by Victorian

[SE16 3LN]

2 minutes ago, coconut doug said:

 

It is an interesting report which shows a slow but gradual improvement in water quality across Scotland for many years. This changes in 2019 when they use new criteria to measure water quality. This is the quote from Sepa 

The number of water bodies awarded a “bad” overall ecology status rose from 187 in 2018 to 410 in 2019 – the highest on record – after Sepa applied its new assessment methods.

Naturally The Herald decontextualised this in their headline to give an inaccurate and bad impression of a Scottish government linked institution. 

Aye, the coconut doug/Smithee sight tests are more reliable. I read it when I was on a train in Scotland and thought it was of interest, even to the Nationalist dirty water refuters. The fact is, the situation is twice as bad as it was in 2019. Probably England's fault right enough.

[Unknown user]

5 minutes ago, SE16 3LN said:

Aye, the coconut doug/Smithee sight tests are more reliable. I read it when I was on a train in Scotland and thought it was of interest, even to the Nationalist dirty water refuters. The fact is, the situation is twice as bad as it was in 2019. Probably England's fault right enough.

 

I still haven't seen it, I haven't made any claims about it and I don't have a position on it until I know more 🤷‍♂️

[Enzo Chiefo]

34 minutes ago, Victorian said:

Any argument that the state merely handles money provided by taxpayers is a dishonest characterisation.  Not surprising in the least to see where this is eminating from.  Regardless of who provides the money,  the state still controls it.  The state has the franchise and consent of the people to mandate people to provide the tax pounds.  It has the power to adjust the portfolio of ways the tax is collected.  Most importantly,  it has the power to decide how the tax pounds are spent and invested.  The state has the money.  The fact that a lot of it used to 'belong' to individuals is irrelevant.

 

A dishonest,  cowardly and morally bankrupt avoidance of the important point.

🤣🤣🤣

[Alex Kintner]

2 hours ago, ri Alban said:

Looks like Enzo's soul has been privatised by Nano.

It’s like a car crash. Can’t help but look. Poor Enzo 🤣

[Alex Kintner]

47 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Insults appear to be your default but I'll rise above it on this occasion. 

 

 

Again not a single iota of self-awareness 🤪

[Enzo Chiefo]

Just now, Alex Kintner said:

It’s like a car crash. Can’t help but look. Poor Enzo 🤣

You missed a checkmate, "mate".

Unless you can solve the NHS conundrum? The question I posed but, to which, I've yet to receive an answer.

I'm quite hot on plagiarism so, if you're thinking of using any of my posts in future tutorials,  I'll be watching.👍

[Victorian]

2 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

🤣🤣🤣

 

You may laugh but the joke's on you chuckles.

 

The state has no money...

 

[Enzo Chiefo]

2 minutes ago, Alex Kintner said:

Again not a single iota of self-awareness 🤪

Are you sure you're an adult? Just that you don't tend to add anything tangible to the debate. Akin to hiding behind a wall and, periodically,  throwing stones over.

 

Anyway, I'll pop back tomorrow to see if anyone can properly understand privatisation,  particularly in an NHS context.

[Enzo Chiefo]

1 minute ago, Victorian said:

 

You may laugh but the joke's on you chuckles.

 

The state has no money...

 

The state has no money. I appreciate economics is not your strong suit but, even so...

[Victorian]

Just now, Enzo Chiefo said:

The state has no money. I appreciate economics is not your strong suit but, even so...

 

 

It's hideous.

[Alex Kintner]

7 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

 

It's hideous.

Starting to think it’s either a parody account or some sort of knock to the head has occurred 🤷🏻‍♂️

[Victorian]

10 homeowners put £10 per month into a private residents' association fund.  After a year,  the bank account that was set up shows a balance of £1,200.  

 

But in Enzo's Old Mother Hubbard alt-reality... the cupboard was bare and it's Enzo left gnawing on a bone.

[Konrad von Carstein]

So we've moved on from water then? Phew!

[The Mighty Thor]

3 minutes ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

So we've moved on from water then? Phew!

We privatised it. 

[WorldChampions1902]

3 minutes ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

So we've moved on from water then? Phew!

I wouldn’t bet on it, but if we have, expect “water” to be replaced with:-

1. Privatisation

2. The Milk Snatcher

3. Union Bashing

4. Government Finances For Dummies

5. Random insults aimed at all and sundry as real facts confront alternative facts/reality.

 

One thing’s for sure, he’s promised to pop back tomorrow, so time to buckle up.

[NANOJAMBO]

3 hours ago, Smithee said:

Actually he still owns it, Nano's only been awarded the right to take it over for a while. 

He's publicly owned.😄

 

I'll get my coat. 

[NANOJAMBO]

1 hour ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Insults appear to be your default but I'll rise above it on this occasion. 

 

When people whinge about more state investment,  govt spending etc they seem to think that the State has their own secret stash, that they can delve into.

They don't.  Ultimately,  it comes from us. The taxpayers are the Govt's income source.

It's called the bank of England. 

But it's not a "secret". 

[Cade]

ALEXA WHAT IS INTERNATIONAL GOVERNMENT FINANCE?

 

 

[NANOJAMBO]

3 hours ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

I never said Scottish Water was privatised, you did. in fact this marathon of lies started out with you claiming ABSOLUTELY that the water industry was privatised but it has been proved beyond doubt , in Scotland, that is not true,

 

I said parts of the service provision was privatised. And that is correct.

that is not correct.

You don't privatise something by awarding a contract for a small part of a market ( eg water)  to a private company*. You privatise it by taking it out of public ownership and making it a private company. No one has shares in Scottish Water - its 100& owwned by the Scot gov and you've been told this already. 

You're confusing a monopoly with competition. Whether a contract is awarded or it's opened up to competition, if private companies are involved then it's classed as privatisation

i.e when the service is not fully controlled by the State (nationalisation).

Word it how you wish, that is still not true. "fully controlled" has nothing to do with it. 

 

If Boris Johnson announced that health service provision in the UK was being "opened up to competition " from American providers, would you be popping on here to reassure us that it wasn't being privatised?? 

Boris has assured us the NHS won't be part of any US trade deal (that he failed to get anyway) so we don't have to worry about that. 

What is Privatisation in simple words?

Definition: The transfer of ownership, property or business from the government to the private sector is termed privatization. The government ceases to be the owner of the entity or business. The process in which a publicly-traded company is taken over by a few people is also called privatization.

 

It hasn't been transferred - they won a 4 year contract in a presumably competitiive market. 

Edited November 1, 2021 by NANOJAMBO

[Victorian]

He'll deny and disown what he said like a lying child.  He'll claim he said something similar,  but not the words he used.

 

"The state has no money".  "Has" being the important word.

 

 

[NANOJAMBO]

Just now, Victorian said:

He'll deny and disown what he said like a lying child.  He'll claim he said something similar,  but not the words he used.

 

"The state has no money".  "Has" being the important word.

 

 

It's like anybody else saying "I have no money. it comes from employers". 

Absolute bullshit. 

[WorldChampions1902]

23 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

He's been publicly shamed.😄

 

I'll get my coat. 

FTFY

Edited November 1, 2021 by WorldChampions1902

[NANOJAMBO]

1 minute ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

FTFY

He's got no fugging shame.

[Victorian]

Just now, NANOJAMBO said:

It's like anybody else saying "I have no money. it comes from employers". 

Absolute bullshit. 

 

Correct.  But he'll obfuscate under the delusion that other people can't read or remember the words used.

 

'Has'.  To possess,  own OR hold.

[Japan Jambo]

 

Edited November 1, 2021 by Japan Jambo

[Alex Kintner]

7 minutes ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

Well past his bedtime probably. It’s a school night.

[Victorian]

2 minutes ago, Alex Kintner said:

Well past his bedtime probably. It’s a school night.

 

I think he's reading and correcting the mistakes in The Wealth of Nations.  Smith knew **** awe.

[Japan Jambo]

1 minute ago, Alex Kintner said:

Well past his bedtime probably. It’s a school night.

 

More likely he's fed up being hounded, it's pretty thin discussion when everyone just throws insults at each other. Loads of folk I disagree with but little point listening to my own echo, better to hear others perspectives.

[Unknown user]

18 minutes ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

 

If he was capable of going "yeah I ****ed that one up" just once he would actually save some face but instead he tries to shout his way out of trouble and, let's face it, he actively attacks other posters himself.

 

Other posters have nowt to do with me, if I feel like having my say I'll do it, cheers

[JudyJudyJudy]

19 minutes ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

More likely he's fed up being hounded, it's pretty thin discussion when everyone just throws insults at each other. Loads of folk I disagree with but little point listening to my own echo, better to hear others perspectives.

Must be " Manic Monday" effect on this. I have noticed Mondays tend to be very shadey. 

[Enzo Chiefo]

Just popped back to see whether anyone had answered my question about the NHS. 

Apparently we have now learned that you can have 4 year "privatisation" packages that aren't really "privatisation" so, just to confirm, for the benefit of the intellectually challenged: privatisation occurs when a business or a service is operated by private companies i.e when there is no state monopoly.  There is no "ownership" of service provision; it's a service so opening up a service to one, or more, companies is, you guessed it, PRIVATISATION.

 

Are we all agreed that, back to the NHS question,  opening up health service provision to US health providers , to offer competition, is privatisation? Or not?

 

Anyone??

[WorldChampions1902]

3 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Just popped back to see whether anyone had answered my question about the NHS. 

Apparently we have now learned that you can have 4 year "privatisation" packages that aren't really "privatisation" so, just to confirm, for the benefit of the intellectually challenged: privatisation occurs when a business or a service is operated by private companies i.e when there is no state monopoly.  There is no "ownership" of service provision; it's a service so opening up a service to one, or more, companies is, you guessed it, PRIVATISATION.

 

Are we all agreed that, back to the NHS question,  opening up health service provision to US health providers , to offer competition, is privatisation? Or not?

 

Anyone??

This a thread about Brexit.

[Enzo Chiefo]

15 minutes ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

This a thread about Brexit.

A trade deal with the US , following Brexit,was, apparently , judging by all the screeching and squawking at the time, going to lead to UK health care provision being opened to competition from US providers. Privatisation we were told.

 

So, again, anyone?

[Alex Kintner]

16 minutes ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

This a thread about Brexit.

It used to be. It now seems to be a thread about Donnie Enzo and the privatisation bunny he sees in the mirror.

[Unknown user]

Just now, Enzo Chiefo said:

A trade deal with the US , following Brexit,was, apparently , judging by all the screeching and squawking at the time, going to lead to UK health care provision being opened to competition from US providers. Privatisation we were told.

 

So, again, anyone?

 

What does the state use instead of money Enzo?

[Ked]

51 minutes ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

More likely he's fed up being hounded, it's pretty thin discussion when everyone just throws insults at each other. Loads of folk I disagree with but little point listening to my own echo, better to hear others perspectives.

Spot on .

And some need to have a word with themselves.

Because what I've read on hear for a few months seems to be a repeat of the trolls that infest political debates on other forums.

What is really annoying is the memes as way of argument.

 

There are many good things that the SNP have done but the gathering is all to defend the questions raised are exactly what you find on other forums in defence of the tories.

 

Get a grip.

[Ked]

Just now, Alex Kintner said:

It used to be. It now seems to be a thread about Donnie Enzo and the privatisation bunny he sees in the mirror.

Or your perception of reality.

Shall I go back and repost your inaccuracies.

This thread is about brexit not your personal attack on a poster.

[Ked]

22 minutes ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

This a thread about Brexit.

You would do well to realise that statement.

Saying as you post inane pictures of pumpkins to make a point.

[Alex Kintner]

2 minutes ago, Ked said:

Or your perception of reality.

Shall I go back and repost your inaccuracies.

This thread is about brexit not your personal attack on a poster.

Please do…

[Ked]

Just now, Alex Kintner said:

Please do…

Na.

Cant be arsed with that.

I made a point .

If it was a question there would be a question mark.

 

 

[Enzo Chiefo]

Well, I guess the academic definition of outsourcing being "a form of privatisation", puts this particular argument to bed. And allows me to go to mine.

https://www.nhsforsale.info/overview/anatomy-of-the-privatisation/

 

[Enzo Chiefo]

9 minutes ago, Alex Kintner said:

It used to be. It now seems to be a thread about Donnie Enzo and the privatisation bunny he sees in the mirror.

Seriously,  you need to have a word with yourself. If you had any salient points to make, rather than just sniping from the sidelines, we would have seen them by now.