Brighton Jambo Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 Just now, ri Alban said: Boris will campaign on a no deal exit and secure a landslide. They will impose their will over this whole place with no one left to oppose them. Labour are finished and the Libdems are patsies. Thank feck for the SNP! And Boris will categorically rule out a second Indy referendum. I know constitutionally this creates potential issues but does anyone think Boris will care given his recent antics? He will rule it out indefinitely and move on. SNP's only hope is some rainbow alliance government where they agree to participate only in exchange for the right for another referendum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 5 minutes ago, Brighton Jambo said: And Boris will categorically rule out a second Indy referendum. I know constitutionally this creates potential issues but does anyone think Boris will care given his recent antics? He will rule it out indefinitely and move on. SNP's only hope is some rainbow alliance government where they agree to participate only in exchange for the right for another referendum. UDI, then call in the UN. Boris isn't the only one who can play those games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruyff Turn Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 1 minute ago, Brighton Jambo said: And Boris will categorically rule out a second Indy referendum. I know constitutionally this creates potential issues but does anyone think Boris will care given his recent antics? He will rule it out indefinitely and move on. SNP's only hope is some rainbow alliance government where they agree to participate only in exchange for the right for another referendum. If there is another GE and the SNP win the most seats by a distance with a manifesto stating a Referendum, then he has no option but to allow it. Otherwise we’re living under a dictatorship and Holyrood may have no choice but to run its own poll. If he doesn’t accept that and he clamps down on Holyrood or Scotland, he’d be running the risk of turning Scotland into another Northern Ireland, but more than anything, if he were to act in that matter, he’d create an overwhelming majority for Indy. To avoid all that, he has to allow it to happen and just hope that No is successful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dobmisterdobster Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 2 minutes ago, ri Alban said: UDI, then call in the UN. Boris isn't the only one who can play those games. How well did that work out for Catalonia? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DETTY29 Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 14 minutes ago, Dannie Boy said: My wife and I bought an apartment in Tenerife back in March and I’ve enough money in the BancaMarch to cover the next 3-4 years of bills and taxes etc We are of tomorrow for a month the back again for November/December. I will be watching this shambles career on with interest from the bottom of a beer glass whilst sunning myself from the beach or the pool. I'd suggest however DB that you haven't spent your working life hiding your money to deny the UK exchequer funds while professing to be a great true brit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruyff Turn Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 7 minutes ago, dobmisterdobster said: How well did that work out for Catalonia? Scotland and Catalonia are two entirely different boxes of frogs tbf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brighton Jambo Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 8 minutes ago, Cruyff Turn said: If there is another GE and the SNP win the most seats by a distance with a manifesto stating a Referendum, then he has no option but to allow it. Otherwise we’re living under a dictatorship and Holyrood may have no choice but to run its own poll. If he doesn’t accept that and he clamps down on Holyrood or Scotland, he’d be running the risk of turning Scotland into another Northern Ireland, but more than anything, if he were to act in that matter, he’d create an overwhelming majority for Indy. To avoid all that, he has to allow it to happen and just hope that No is successful. Under any normal set of circumstances I would agree but he wont agree to it. He has said that at best will see what the outcome of the 2021 Scottish election is but there's no way he grants one before then. What he probably wants more than anything is for Scotland to run its own poll which would be declared illegal. I know its not exactly the same but look what happened in Catalonia, that was devastating for the Basque cause. Johnson would love nothing more than that repeated in Scotland. The SNP need to be patient, if they blink first and try and run an unofficial poll it would be catastrophic for the cause. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Dan Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 14 minutes ago, DETTY29 said: I'd suggest however DB that you haven't spent your working life hiding your money to deny the UK exchequer funds while professing to be a great true brit. Thats true always paid my taxes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruyff Turn Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 7 minutes ago, Brighton Jambo said: Under any normal set of circumstances I would agree but he wont agree to it. He has said that at best will see what the outcome of the 2021 Scottish election is but there's no way he grants one before then. What he probably wants more than anything is for Scotland to run its own poll which would be declared illegal. I know its not exactly the same but look what happened in Catalonia, that was devastating for the Basque cause. Johnson would love nothing more than that repeated in Scotland. The SNP need to be patient, if they blink first and try and run an unofficial poll it would be catastrophic for the cause. I agree, i’m not for UDI’s tbh but we live in a Parliamentary Democracy, he’s not the President. He would be very ill advised to reject it because when it does happen, and it will, it’ll just further the cause to the Indy movement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 The kind of course being followed by Johnson and his fellow gangsters may have to result in the UK adopting a written, legal constitution. A parliamentary constitution can only function if the executive follows reasonable precendents and protocols. It isn't. The only precendents at play are new ones being set. To drive a tank through the normal processes and proceedures. Taking full advantage of a hoplessly flawed and weak parliamentary system. These 'thugs' and those who follow them will cause a written constitution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 1 hour ago, dobmisterdobster said: How well did that work out for Catalonia? We're not Catalonia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XB52 Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 1 hour ago, Brighton Jambo said: Under any normal set of circumstances I would agree but he wont agree to it. He has said that at best will see what the outcome of the 2021 Scottish election is but there's no way he grants one before then. What he probably wants more than anything is for Scotland to run its own poll which would be declared illegal. I know its not exactly the same but look what happened in Catalonia, that was devastating for the Basque cause. Johnson would love nothing more than that repeated in Scotland. The SNP need to be patient, if they blink first and try and run an unofficial poll it would be catastrophic for the cause. ???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AW1 Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 Looks like we're gonna be heading for a General Election judging by reports on today. The cross party Bill will win In Parliament tonight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Thor Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 1 hour ago, Victorian said: The kind of course being followed by Johnson and his fellow gangsters may have to result in the UK adopting a written, legal constitution. A parliamentary constitution can only function if the executive follows reasonable precendents and protocols. It isn't. The only precendents at play are new ones being set. To drive a tank through the normal processes and proceedures. Taking full advantage of a hoplessly flawed and weak parliamentary system. These 'thugs' and those who follow them will cause a written constitution. Talking about all things legal being written down, the government refused to give a sworn statement to the Scottish courts regarding the prorogation of parliament. They're on fire at the minute. On fire as in liar liar pants on fire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 (edited) Tories have lost an MP to the Lib Dems. No longer have a majority. Edited September 3, 2019 by Mikey1874 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 Though technically Government does not have a majority they would still be expected to win votes as opposition is not united and some independent MPs still mostly support them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruyff Turn Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 5 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said: Tories have lost an MP to the Lib Dems. No longer have a majority. 🍿 time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Cruyff Turn said: 🍿 time That's a devastating statement.. Edited September 3, 2019 by Mikey1874 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 Well the news is certainly interesting. Effectively as many people warned, the narrow English nationalism led now by this Government will hit a wall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruyff Turn Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 4 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said: That's a devastating statement.. Not half. General Election it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 There's a fair bit to sort out before an election is passed in the house. There will definitely be one but it's by no means simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 SO24 reading later on tonight (if Bercow allows it), with a vote sometime around 10pm. This will then let Parliament take over the scheduling and get the No-Deal block legislation done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughesie27 Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 Bojo to bring in a motion of no confidence in his own Government in order to get his GE? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 4 minutes ago, Cruyff Turn said: Not half. General Election it is. Better to let them stew in it. More defections or continuing conflict eg over Cummings, leaks etc will destroy them. Tories need that election now. If the perogue of Parliament can be stopped which could mean sitting during party conferences it will be tough for the government to avoid imploding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 1 minute ago, hughesie27 said: Bojo to bring in a motion of no confidence in his own Government in order to get his GE? Labour could whip to vote WITH the govt to prevent that from going through. With the parliamentary arithmetic so close, that'd be easily enough to stymie that kind of move. Fun and games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 3 minutes ago, Cade said: SO24 reading later on tonight (if Bercow allows it), with a vote sometime around 10pm. This will then let Parliament take over the scheduling and get the No-Deal block legislation done. Seems to be going ahead. Speaker referred to it clarifying what the vote tonight means. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruyff Turn Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 Ken Clarke laying into him now. 🤣 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruyff Turn Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 3 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said: Better to let them stew in it. More defections or continuing conflict eg over Cummings, leaks etc will destroy them. Tories need that election now. If the perogue of Parliament can be stopped which could mean sitting during party conferences it will be tough for the government to avoid imploding. They’ve brought it on themselves by threatening his own MP’s with de-selection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boof Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 Is it too simplistic to think that this whole shitstorm was created by Tory tax avoiders wanting to escape from the incoming EU tax legislation? And that the panic to get out now is because those laws come into force in January? And those media manipulators managed to convince the majority of folk that Brexit was a go-er? So we could stop Germany and France from running our affairs (an actual quote I heard at the weekend from an elderly Leave voter from Halifax - 86% get oot vote) Take back control? (errrmmm - of what, precisely?) Control immigration? Etc, etc, etc, etc...ad nauseum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughesie27 Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 4 minutes ago, Cade said: Labour could whip to vote WITH the govt to prevent that from going through. With the parliamentary arithmetic so close, that'd be easily enough to stymie that kind of move. Fun and games. Even with just 1 vote over 50% required to back it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 He would lose a no confidence motion in his own government. There are at least 20 Tories who would vote against. Everyone can see the strategies and permutations. He has no chance of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sexton Hardcastle Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 Lib Dems are anything but liberal with another Tory on the benches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 1 minute ago, Victorian said: He would lose a no confidence motion in his own government. There are at least 20 Tories who would vote against. Everyone can see the strategies and permutations. He has no chance of that. Though the convention is 14 days to find an alternative government. While there are clear issues with divisions in Labour, concerns about Corbyn and other disagreements, I do believe it is possible they all could come together to put forward an alternative government to stop No Deal and set out an alternative. Then an election. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 Trapped by Hammond on details of negotiations. Response? Total waffle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 Just now, Mikey1874 said: Though the convention is 14 days to find an alternative government. While there are clear issues with divisions in Labour, concerns about Corbyn and other disagreements, I do believe it is possible they all could come together to put forward an alternative government to stop No Deal and set out an alternative. Then an election. Maybe. But there will be no election on the government's timetable and strategy. 0% chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 Just now, Victorian said: Trapped by Hammond on details of negotiations. Response? Total waffle. Doesn't answer any questions. Corbyn asked too many questions but BoJo just about answered one. Speaker etc need to tackle that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 Just now, Mikey1874 said: Doesn't answer any questions. Corbyn asked too many questions but BoJo just about answered one. Speaker etc need to tackle that. It's symptomatic of the seriously degraded ability to scrutinise the executive. A race to the bottom of robust scrutiny. It facilitates even worse to follow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 27 minutes ago, hughesie27 said: Even with just 1 vote over 50% required to back it? Why would a Remain backing Tory want a general election? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 Boris is trying to sound as if we've just started negotiations. They've been finished, mate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 Can he say a full sentence. Jesus! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brighton Jambo Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 37 minutes ago, Boof said: Is it too simplistic to think that this whole shitstorm was created by Tory tax avoiders wanting to escape from the incoming EU tax legislation? And that the panic to get out now is because those laws come into force in January? And those media manipulators managed to convince the majority of folk that Brexit was a go-er? So we could stop Germany and France from running our affairs (an actual quote I heard at the weekend from an elderly Leave voter from Halifax - 86% get oot vote) Take back control? (errrmmm - of what, precisely?) Control immigration? Etc, etc, etc, etc...ad nauseum. I do think that is too simplistic. There a large swathes of the country who genuinely believe that Brexit is the English equivalent of Scottish Independence. They passionately believe we need to take back control from EU and believe we are being run from afar and want their independence. Its an English nationalism thing that is dictated by hearts and not heads. I don't for one second subscribe to that view but that is their view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AW1 Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 34 minutes ago, Sexton Hardcastle said: Lib Dems are anything but liberal with another Tory on the benches. They lost all credibility years ago when Clegg and Cable propped Cameron and Osborne up to form a government **** the lib dems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 JC! Hang your head in shame, that this Muppet is standing at the PM box. Labour are hopeless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 "Wont comment on leaks... ". Aye great... but the only information being released is via leaks. Because the government isn't releasing anything and hiding from scrutiny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlimOzturk Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 Cringe watching and listening to those bunch of rich, privileged arseholes. They as a whole have brought this country shame Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 Boris is being ragdolled by his own MP's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackLadd Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 Sack them all Boris, they are LibDems not Conservatives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brighton Jambo Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 The damage that BJ and this cabinet are doing to the Tory cause will be felt for years. I know now a lot of people will always hate them but they had such an opportunity to reposition themselves as a centre right party in opposition to a very left leaning labour government (by UK standards before you all jump on me) led by a very weak socialist leader. instead they have simply confirmed everyone’s worst fears. I do wonder if BJ has just let this whole thing get away from him more than he ever Expected to and now he simply can’t put the genie back in the box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dobmisterdobster Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 1 minute ago, Brighton Jambo said: The damage that BJ and this cabinet are doing to the Tory cause will be felt for years. I know now a lot of people will always hate them but they had such an opportunity to reposition themselves as a centre right party in opposition to a very left leaning labour government (by UK standards before you all jump on me) led by a very weak socialist leader. instead they have simply confirmed everyone’s worst fears. I do wonder if BJ has just let this whole thing get away from him more than he ever Expected to and now he simply can’t put the genie back in the box. The Tories will probably be let off the hook (again) because JC is still Labour leader. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlimOzturk Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 4 minutes ago, Brighton Jambo said: The damage that BJ and this cabinet are doing to the Tory cause will be felt for years. I know now a lot of people will always hate them but they had such an opportunity to reposition themselves as a centre right party in opposition to a very left leaning labour government (by UK standards before you all jump on me) led by a very weak socialist leader. instead they have simply confirmed everyone’s worst fears. I do wonder if BJ has just let this whole thing get away from him more than he ever Expected to and now he simply can’t put the genie back in the box. Wasnt BJ in the remain camp at one point before jumping ship when he seen an opportunity to become PM? Might be dreaming that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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