Neilson's time at MKD is over (updated)

[Bowmans_Boot]

Compared to some of the muppets we've had in charge over the last 10 years or so, he was great in that the title, 3rd and leaving us in 2nd/3rd were great achievements. Even more so when compared with what followed. Was he "a Hearts great" or legend as a manager? No. We have very, very few of those though to be fair. In my lifetime, only JJ and Doddie deserve that accolade for what they did for us.

 

Neilson certainly deserves to be called a promising young manager in the game, and one we should keep an eye on for a possible return if he keeps developing.

 

Out of interest whey did you want a guy who got us a title, 3rd and had us in the mix for 2nd to leave? Does it really come down to one cup result! Fact is, Robbie had plenty of results like Saturday where we created loads of chances and couldn't put them away and either drew or lost. HIs win rate speaks for itself though, even discounting the Championship season (which there's no reason we should).

Fair points. I just think the term "great" is banded around too easily. As manager/HC, he was generally good, definitely not great.

[Cade]

Romped the Championship by 21 points when it was supposed to be "the hardest Championship season ever".

Finished 3rd in the first year back in the Premiership.

Left us in december, sitting 2nd in the league.

 

 

loast tae hibz but no 

[orchardmaroon]

Every hearts 'fan' on this thread who wishes Neilson bad is a joke. He did a fantastic job with us and gave us some great times. Left us top 2 in league etc. Forced out by small minded short memory people in my opinion and see what we got. Never said a bad word about us so get a grip.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

11 goals in their 7 games so far. Includes opposition. 4 in 7 for MK

[socrates82]

11 goals in their 7 games so far. Includes opposition. 4 in 7 for MK

 

Are you trying to suggest he can't get teams scoring goals? Because we were one of the top scorers in Europe in his first season and Scotland the next.

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

Are you trying to suggest he can't get teams scoring goals? Because we were one of the top scorers in Europe in his first season and Scotland the next.

No.

[socrates82]

No.

 

Good. Because we saw plenty goals under Neilson.

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

Good. Because we saw plenty goals under Neilson.

I know. False alarm. You can stand down on this one.

[tartofmidlothian]

It would be funny as **** if this thread kept on going until MK Dons win promotion.

[MacDonald Jardine]

However Robbie had a better first season than doddie.

Promotion over non promotion, actually a third place finish if I remember.

By that he also had s better 2nd season.

Robbie had a better first season in the top league than cl 5th v 3rd

 

Both cl and doddie managed longer so it is unfair to compare to Robbie, it's harder to maintain consistency over a longer period.

 

However, Robbie had a better first 2 seasons than cl or doddie.would he have been able to maintain that level, no one, no one knows.

 

That is a Fact ( even if you compare the first season of cl in the top flight v Robbie's).

 

It doesn't detract from cl or doddie but it's a fact that cannot be argued. The league tables show that.

 

Arguing a fact like that just shows it was either personal or because hibs won the sc that you don't/didn't like Robbie.

 

A fact in black in white states Robbie had a better start than cl, who over 80% support just now and doddie who was one of our best managers in our history.

 

 

Anyway, back on topic. He's in a rut and needs wins or he'll be back up here.

He undoubtedly did better than MacDonald in the second tier, given circumstances and who the competition was.

By the same criteria, he was nowhere near as good in the Premiership.

[socrates82]

He undoubtedly did better than MacDonald in the second tier, given circumstances and who the competition was.

By the same criteria, he was nowhere near as good in the Premiership.

 

No Hearts manager has been as good as Doddie in the Premier league since whoever won us our last top league title.

 

However, Neilson did do better in his first seasons in both leagues, given he won the championship and finished 3rd and was 2nd when he left. Compared to Doddie's 2nd, 5th and 7th.

 

Doddie's improvement as a manager over a few seasons was one reason I didn't join in the calls to ditch Robbie.

[Bowmans_Boot]

No Hearts manager has been as good as Doddie in the Premier league since whoever won us our last top league title.

 

However, Neilson did do better in his first seasons in both leagues, given he won the championship and finished 3rd and was 2nd when he left. Compared to Doddie's 2nd, 5th and 7th.

 

Doddie's improvement as a manager over a few seasons was one reason I didn't join in the calls to ditch Robbie.

Except you have to take the situation and state of the club into account, as well, rather than just league positions. Robbie could not have handpicked a more perfect set up. I doubt Doddie would say the same.

[socrates82]

Except you have to take the situation and state of the club into account, as well, rather than just league positions. Robbie could not have handpicked a more perfect set up. I doubt Doddie would say the same.

 

On the flip side, Doddie's first season was in a much easier league, the OF were much weaker relatively speaking and he benefited from one of our greatest ever players coming through the youth ranks as well as an environment in which we could pick up very good Scottish players from OF clubs for peanuts. We can only dream of making signings like Colquhoun and Clark now, or even Whittaker, MacDonald, Bone, and Jardine and MacDonald themselves. Mackay, Bowman and Robbo were also three of our best ever youth players - way ahead of everyone outwith Paterson from the last few years.

 

But comparing different eras of football is pointless. All you can do is compare how they did with what they had and look at the raw stats. 

[Bowmans_Boot]

On the flip side, Doddie's first season was in a much easier league, the OF were much weaker relatively speaking and he benefited from one of our greatest ever players coming through the youth ranks as well as an environment in which we could pick up very good Scottish players from OF clubs for peanuts. We can only dream of making signings like Colquhoun and Clark now, or even Whittaker, MacDonald, Bone, and Jardine and MacDonald themselves. Mackay, Bowman and Robbo were also three of our best ever youth players - way ahead of everyone outwith Paterson from the last few years.

 

But comparing different eras of football is pointless. All you can do is compare how they did with what they had and look at the raw stats.

I do take your point about the difficulties of comparing different eras, but to say Scottish football was easier in those days is something I would question. The ECWC holders were our opponents, that is a relatively high standard.

 

And I go back to the state of the club in those respective eras: Robbie could not have chosen a better set up, financially strong, a positive, enthusiastic and generous support and a DOF to support and guide him. Doddie had none of those positives and had to generate everything himself.

[socrates82]

I do take your point about the difficulties of comparing different eras, but to say Scottish football was easier in those days is something I would question. The ECWC holders were our opponents, that is a relatively high standard.

 

And I go back to the state of the club in those respective eras: Robbie could not have chosen a better set up, financially strong, a positive, enthusiastic and generous support and a DOF to support and guide him. Doddie had none of those positives and had to generate everything himself.

 

True, Doddie had Mercer though who, love him or hate him, played a huge part in our revival and gave him a lot of support.

[The Merse]

Famous Neilson half time team talk sees MK concede twice in opening ten of second half.

 

Being found out quickly is our Robbie.

[Watt-Zeefuik]

I do take your point about the difficulties of comparing different eras, but to say Scottish football was easier in those days is something I would question. The ECWC holders were our opponents, that is a relatively high standard.

 

And I go back to the state of the club in those respective eras: Robbie could not have chosen a better set up, financially strong, a positive, enthusiastic and generous support and a DOF to support and guide him. Doddie had none of those positives and had to generate everything himself.

 

I take your point but I would hardly call Neilson's situation ideal. He had to build a squad from scratch, including clearing out a lot of deadweight from the previous regime, and he had a pretty light budget to do it with. Yes, he had an excellent management structure around him and a lot of goodwill at the club, but he put together that championship run with a lot of spare parts.

[socrates82]

Famous Neilson half time team talk sees MK concede twice in opening ten of second half.

 

Being found out quickly is our Robbie.

 

"Found out" away against a title contender? Do folk seriously think Neilson was just lucky for 2.5 seasons (3 including a decent start at MK)! Amazing

[Watt-Zeefuik]

Famous Neilson half time team talk sees MK concede twice in opening ten of second half.

 

Being found out quickly is our Robbie.

 

What are you on about? They won 0-1 away at Derek Adams' side the weekend.

[Bungalow Bill]

What are you on about? They won 0-1 away at Derek Adams' side the weekend.

Losing 2-0 tonight away to Peterborough.

[Watt-Zeefuik]

Losing 2-0 tonight away to Peterborough.

Apologies -- the scores site I was on didn't show that. My error clearly.

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

some absolute garbage being posted on here

 

championship 'undoubtedly stronger'

 

is this the Rangers and hibs challenge where rangers dropped bundles of points to us hibs qos Falkirk Alloa and even Cowdenbeath and the mighty hibs side who struggled against the likes of Dumbarton and raith

 

'a weaker old firm' Ronnie dielas celtic and coistys rangers compared to the likes of mcgrain McLeod McClair mcstay johnston and the high end European competitors of Aberdeen and Dundee Utd

 

expected from ftom tosh and socrates tbf

 

for comparison to use the posters mayweather comparison

 

Gary Naysmith undefeated as hearts first team manager something neither doddie nor neilson can boast - he is therefore indisputably better - that's a fact - never lost one single game (another invalid stat to add to the pile)

 

 

 

[socrates82]

some absolute garbage being posted on here

 

championship 'undoubtedly stronger'

 

is this the Rangers and hibs challenge where rangers dropped bundles of points to us hibs qos Falkirk Alloa and even Cowdenbeath and the mighty hibs side who struggled against the likes of Dumbarton and raith

 

'a weaker old firm' Ronnie dielas celtic and coistys rangers compared to the likes of mcgrain McLeod McClair mcstay johnston and the high end European competitors of Aberdeen and Dundee Utd

 

expected from ftom tosh and socrates tbf

 

for comparison to use the posters mayweather comparison

 

Gary Naysmith undefeated as hearts first team manager something neither doddie nor neilson can boast - he is therefore indisputably better - that's a fact - never lost one single game (another invalid stat to add to the pile)

 

 

 

 

It's just a fact that the gap between the OF and the rest was much smaller then than now. You can look at the league tables if you don't believe me. Rangers and Celtic both finished down the table in those days fairly regularly, and we were able to sign some of their first team players.

 

And yes the Championship was a much, much harder league than the old First Division back then. For a start there were no teams in that league with between 3 and 10 times our wage budget, which is what Hibs and Rangers had over us.

[Jambo92]

"Found out" away against a title contender? Do folk seriously think Neilson was just lucky for 2.5 seasons (3 including a decent start at MK)! Amazing

 

Hope he proves me wrong but I feel Craig Levein was a big factor in Robbie's success at Hearts.  The guy is a Hearts legend and we should be entirely grateful for him for getting us out of the championship at first asking.  Because we did it at a canter almost makes the challenge look alot easier than it was.  He took over when we literally had 3/4 players!

[Bowmans_Boot]

I take your point but I would hardly call Neilson's situation ideal. He had to build a squad from scratch, including clearing out a lot of deadweight from the previous regime, and he had a pretty light budget to do it with. Yes, he had an excellent management structure around him and a lot of goodwill at the club, but he put together that championship run with a lot of spare parts.

He had CL assisting him in clearing out the deadwood.

Another manager had blooded the young players and made something of their raw talent.

Compared to previous years (especially the 80s), we were almost swimming in cash.

The stadium was being filled without any results or performances needed to do so.

He had CL and Ann backing him to the hilt.

 

In absolutely no way is this even remotely comparable to what Alex MacDonald faced.

[socrates82]

He had CL assisting him in clearing out the deadwood.

Another manager had blooded the young players and made something of their raw talent.

Compared to previous years (especially the 80s), we were almost swimming in cash.

The stadium was being filled without any results or performances needed to do so.

He had CL and Ann backing him to the hilt.

 

In absolutely no way is this even remotely comparable to what Alex MacDonald faced.

 

This is true but as mentioned is this not balanced out by the general state of Scottish football? The fact that we even had players like Alex MacDonald and Sandy Jardine playing for us at all while in the doldrums? Plus the youngsters. In the First Division, Doddie had himself, Jardine, Roddy McDonald, Willie Johnston plus Mackay, Bowman and Robbo. Mercer had also forked out for Willie Pettigrew.

 

It was much easier then for Hearts to sign good Scottish players then. Neilson by contrast didn't have youngsters like Mackay, Bowman and Robbo and couldn't go out and sign a young winger for peanuts who had just played almost an entire season for Celtic (who finished 2nd that season Colquhoun played for them). That would be like us signing McGregor or Forrest or someone from Celtic today.

 

This all just shows the fruitlessness of comparing managers in different eras! Good pub discussion tho

[Watt-Zeefuik]

He had CL assisting him in clearing out the deadwood.

Another manager had blooded the young players and made something of their raw talent.

Compared to previous years (especially the 80s), we were almost swimming in cash.

The stadium was being filled without any results or performances needed to do so.

He had CL and Ann backing him to the hilt.

 

In absolutely no way is this even remotely comparable to what Alex MacDonald faced.

I see it as apples and oranges. Doddie took over a club that was dysfunctional and sclerotic but it had an internal structure. Budge has repeatedly mentioned how completely gutted the club was when she took over, to the point that basic office filing systems and equipment were missing and the books were a wreck.

 

So I guess I'll agree that Neilson had it easier than MacDonald but I draw the line well before "ideal." Aside from being midseason, Cathro took over in ideal circumstances -- functional, coherent squad, good league position, and a front office that was humming along.

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

It's just a fact that the gap between the OF and the rest was much smaller then than now. You can look at the league tables if you don't believe me. Rangers and Celtic both finished down the table in those days fairly regularly, and we were able to sign some of their first team players.

 

And yes the Championship was a much, much harder league than the old First Division back then. For a start there were no teams in that league with between 3 and 10 times our wage budget, which is what Hibs and Rangers had over us.

you have already been completely discredited on budgets with ur claim that hearts and st Johnstone had similar budgets and then you produced two sets of evidence which (presumably accidentally) proved otherwise

 

 

if the championship had been as strong in reality than it was on paper miller and Boyd would have scored 50 goals and rangers wouldn't have dropped all those points (including to postmen and petrol pump attendants) and hibs would have managed to contain the likes of Dumbarton

 

anyway I'm expecting Robbie to be at arsenal or Liverpool fairly soon or given the Celtic result tonight maybe they might consider him an upgrade on Rodgers

 

alas doddie was never on any of their shortlists (probably)

 

[socrates82]

I see it as apples and oranges. Doddie took over a club that was dysfunctional and sclerotic but it had an internal structure. Budge has repeatedly mentioned how completely gutted the club was when she took over, to the point that basic office filing systems and equipment were missing and the books were a wreck.

 

So I guess I'll agree that Neilson had it easier than MacDonald but I draw the line well before "ideal." Aside from being midseason, Cathro took over in ideal circumstances -- functional, coherent squad, good league position, and a front office that was humming along.

 

I remember Cathro when he arrived saying he didn't want to change much - just continue the good work of Neilson. It all seemed so sensible. Then he went out and signed 9 players. That transfer window was so bizarre and unnecessary.

[socrates82]

you have already been completely discredited on budgets with ur claim that hearts and st Johnstone had similar budgets and then you produced two sets of evidence which (presumably accidentally) proved otherwise

 

 

if the championship had been as strong in reality than it was on paper miller and Boyd would have scored 50 goals and rangers wouldn't have dropped all those points (including to postmen and petrol pump attendants) and hibs would have managed to contain the likes of Dumbarton

 

anyway I'm expecting Robbie to be at arsenal or Liverpool fairly soon or given the Celtic result tonight maybe they might consider him an upgrade on Rodgers

 

alas doddie was never on any of their shortlists (probably)

 

 

Hearts and D Utd had similar budgets when Hearts went up. St J's was about way Hearts was when Hearts was in the Championship. Either way, we were way behind Rangers and HIs in the Championship and beyond D Utd, Aberdeen and Celtic in the Premiership that season.

 

But you can keep talking down your own club if you like.

[Hearts First]

I remember Cathro when he arrived saying he didn't want to change much - just continue the good work of Neilson. It all seemed so sensible. Then he went out and signed 9 players. That transfer window was so bizarre and unnecessary.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. There weren't too many complaints when Cathro made those January signings. Quite the opposite in fact.

[socrates82]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. There weren't too many complaints when Cathro made those January signings. Quite the opposite in fact.

 

Some of the players looked quality on paper but the longer the window went on and the more players left and arrived the more eyebrows were raised. Still would love to hear from Levein one day exactly why he sanctioned such a massive squad makeover with all the short term signings when the team was actually doing quite well when Cathro took over.

[Watt-Zeefuik]

you have already been completely discredited on budgets with ur claim that hearts and st Johnstone had similar budgets and then you produced two sets of evidence which (presumably accidentally) proved otherwise

 

 

if the championship had been as strong in reality than it was on paper miller and Boyd would have scored 50 goals and rangers wouldn't have dropped all those points (including to postmen and petrol pump attendants) and hibs would have managed to contain the likes of Dumbarton

 

anyway I'm expecting Robbie to be at arsenal or Liverpool fairly soon or given the Celtic result tonight maybe they might consider him an upgrade on Rodgers

 

alas doddie was never on any of their shortlists (probably)

 

 

The Global Sports Salaries Survey (or whatever it's called) had our average wage as around $80k/year.  Hibs was about double that and Rangers as around $400k/year.

 

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. There weren't too many complaints when Cathro made those January signings. Quite the opposite in fact.

 

A lot of us were trying to stay positive but Rossi going off to Saudi Arabia was the weirdest part of that window but hardly the only weird bit. Tziolis impressed once but I still thought burying Kitchen was a mistake. We needed a new left back but Rherras was still better than Sowah, and we'd have been better off staying with Smith at right back, which was my preference at the time.

 

The one signing we all agreed on was Isma, and in hindsight we were right on that one.

[Hearts First]

The Global Sports Salaries Survey (or whatever it's called) had our average wage as around $80k/year. Hibs was about double that and Rangers as around $400k/year.

 

 

A lot of us were trying to stay positive but Rossi going off to Saudi Arabia was the weirdest part of that window but hardly the only weird bit. Tziolis impressed once but I still thought burying Kitchen was a mistake. We needed a new left back but Rherras was still better than Sowah, and we'd have been better off staying with Smith at right back, which was my preference at the time.

 

The one signing we all agreed on was Isma, and in hindsight we were right on that one.

You remember it differently from me which is fair enough.

[Bowmans_Boot]

I see it as apples and oranges. Doddie took over a club that was dysfunctional and sclerotic but it had an internal structure. Budge has repeatedly mentioned how completely gutted the club was when she took over, to the point that basic office filing systems and equipment were missing and the books were a wreck.

 

So I guess I'll agree that Neilson had it easier than MacDonald but I draw the line well before "ideal." Aside from being midseason, Cathro took over in ideal circumstances -- functional, coherent squad, good league position, and a front office that was humming along.

If you think our internal structure was sound and solid when Alex took over then you clearly have no clue at all. We were a mess. We were surviving minute to minute. We winged and bullshitted our way through things. In no way at all did we have the structure that Robbie was able to enjoy.

[Watt-Zeefuik]

If you think our internal structure was sound and solid when Alex took over then you clearly have no clue at all. We were a mess. We were surviving minute to minute. We winged and bullshitted our way through things. In no way at all did we have the structure that Robbie was able to enjoy.

That's.... not at all what I said.

 

MacDonald had a dysfunctional structure to work with but he wasn't starting from zero. That's a very hard lift and he did amazing things.

 

When Robbie walked in the door we had nothing but a handful of youth players (including about three true talents), some washed up journeymen, a lease at Riccarton, and utter chaos in the front office. Yes, Ann and Craig set to right away cleaning it up, but Robbie was part and parcel of that.

 

Again, I'm giving MacDonald greater credit but just calling you out on saying Neilson's situation was "ideal." That's ridiculous.

[socrates82]

If you think our internal structure was sound and solid when Alex took over then you clearly have no clue at all. We were a mess. We were surviving minute to minute. We winged and bullshitted our way through things. In no way at all did we have the structure that Robbie was able to enjoy.

 

That's debatable. Mercer had taken the club over and was pumping money in and the youth system as mentioned had churned out three of our best ever prospects. So from a manager's POV things were pretty decent and off the field while it was early days we were definitely on the up. I mean we signed Pettigrew (and Addison) from a very good D Utd team for 200 grand - a massive amount by today's standards. That would be like Levein giving Neilson a million or so to sign couple of players in his first season in the Championship! And it can't be under-estimated how important Robbo was to our revival.

 

None of this is trying to downplay Doddie's achievements by the way.

[Bowmans_Boot]

That's.... not at all what I said.

 

MacDonald had a dysfunctional structure to work with but he wasn't starting from zero. That's a very hard lift and he did amazing things.

 

When Robbie walked in the door we had nothing but a handful of youth players (including about three true talents), some washed up journeymen, a lease at Riccarton, and utter chaos in the front office. Yes, Ann and Craig set to right away cleaning it up, but Robbie was part and parcel of that.

 

Again, I'm giving MacDonald greater credit but just calling you out on saying Neilson's situation was "ideal." That's ridiculous.

Alex MacDonald basically started from zero.

 

Robbie had a fantastic structure in place to help him with every single aspect of his job. Including signing (& the financing of) players.

 

The two situations are in no way comparable at all.

[Bowmans_Boot]

That's debatable. Mercer had taken the club over and was pumping money in and the youth system as mentioned had churned out three of our best ever prospects. So from a manager's POV things were pretty decent and off the field while it was early days we were definitely on the up. I mean we signed Pettigrew (and Addison) from a very good D Utd team for 200 grand - a massive amount by today's standards. That would be like Levein giving Neilson a million or so to sign couple of players in his first season in the Championship!

We totally winged those signings from Dundee United, like we winged pretty much everything in those days as the club was a mess!!

[socrates82]

Alex MacDonald basically started from zero.

 

Robbie had a fantastic structure in place to help him with every single aspect of his job. Including signing (& the financing of) players.

 

The two situations are in no way comparable at all.

 

As per my other comment, he definitely did not start from zero in terms of players available to him. Look at the squad he inherited and the players he was able to sign. And he still took two seasons to get promoted (albeit he took over half way through one of them) and didn't do it as champions. 

[Hendricks]

If you think our internal structure was sound and solid when Alex took over then you clearly have no clue at all. We were a mess. We were surviving minute to minute. We winged and bullshitted our way through things. In no way at all did we have the structure that Robbie was able to enjoy.

 

 

You are absolutely spot on in what you are saying. Some of our younger supporters would do well to have a read of 'The Boys in Maroon' or 'Glorious Hearts' to see just what state the club were in. Even in the intro of the former Wallace Merecer says "As I stated earlier, the club was financially and socially redundant in June 1981". The players literally had to wash their own training gear!  What they did within a couple of years will never be repeated, football has moved on but to put together that Hearts team as they did was remarkable. We certainly had some highs under JJ culminating in ending the trophy drought but out with the start of the 05-06 season its by far the most exciting time to have been a Hearts fans since the 50's. Robbie Neilson's Hearts don't come anywhere close.

[socrates82]

We totally winged those signings from Dundee United, like we winged pretty much everything in those days as the club was a mess!!

 

It was a mess in the process of being cleaned up, same as when Neilson took over. But in Mercer Doddie had a chairman who was willing to put money directly into the team before sorting out the structure. The opposite of Budge really. From a manager's position, that's a good thing surely? Hey Doddie, here's 200 grand worth of players and I'll pay wages that let you sign a bunch of Rangers and Celtic players.

[socrates82]

You are absolutely spot on in what you are saying. Some of our younger supporters would do well to have a read of 'The Boys in Maroon' or 'Glorious Hearts' to see just what state the club were in. Even in the intro of the former Wallace Merecer says "As I stated earlier, the club was financially and socially redundant in June 1981". The players literally had to wash their own training gear!  What they did within a couple of years will never be repeated, football has moved on but to put together that Hearts team as they did was remarkable. We certainly had some highs under JJ culminating in ending the trophy drought but out with the start of the 05-06 season its by far the most exciting time to have been a Hearts fans since the 50's. Robbie Neilson's Hearts don't come anywhere close.

 

Everyone knows those stories. That was when Mercer bought Hearts. We were still in business though when he did, unlike when budge bought us. Doddie took over 6 months after we'd bought the club when things had been stabilised. By the time he started his first full season we were pretty much safe and just needed to get promotion, which he did by finishing second with a pretty decent team. Sure, Neilson had Levein to lean on, but Doddie had a raft of gnarly veterans of Scottish football in the dressing room to help him out, and he was one himself. Again, to stress, this is not downplaying Doddie's achievements. As someone else said I think if Neilson had won the Championship by a couple of points on the last day he'd get a lot more credit for that season. And what we are discussing is their relative successes in their first couple of years, not what Doddie did 4 years after taking over.

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

Everyone knows those stories. That was when Mercer bought Hearts. We were still in business though when he did, unlike when budge bought us. Doddie took over 6 months after we'd bought the club when things had been stabilised. By the time he started his first full season we were pretty much safe and just needed to get promotion, which he did by finishing second with a pretty decent team. Sure, Neilson had Levein to lean on, but Doddie had a raft of gnarly veterans of Scottish football in the dressing room to help him out, and he was one himself. Again, to stress, this is not downplaying Doddie's achievements. As someone else said I think if Neilson had won the Championship by a couple of points on the last day he'd get a lot more credit for that season. And what we are discussing is their relative successes in their first couple of years, not what Doddie did 4 years after taking over.

He gets tons of credit for the championship season. But his SPL time was a bit dull. In a season and a half he's lucky if he had three games that weren't humdrum.

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

The Global Sports Salaries Survey (or whatever it's called) had our average wage as around $80k/year. Hibs was about double that and Rangers as around $400k/year.

 

 

A lot of us were trying to stay positive but Rossi going off to Saudi Arabia was the weirdest part of that window but hardly the only weird bit. Tziolis impressed once but I still thought burying Kitchen was a mistake. We needed a new left back but Rherras was still better than Sowah, and we'd have been better off staying with Smith at right back, which was my preference at the time.

 

The one signing we all agreed on was Isma, and in hindsight we were right on that one.

hibs and rangers may well have had higher budgets -they didn't perform to them tho otherwise Alloa and Cowdenbeath wouldn't have troubled them so etc etc

 

that wasn't my point anyway my point was that Socrates has made a bit of a bungle of his past budget statements and hence any budget chat from him should be taken with a very very large bucket of salt

[Beats]

Didn't the MK Dons owner say Neilson was the best young manager in Britain

 

Neilson being found out big time.

[smiler]

Why are folk getting pleasure out of RN struggling?

Grow up ffs.

[Hendricks]

Everyone knows those stories. That was when Mercer bought Hearts. We were still in business though when he did, unlike when budge bought us. Doddie took over 6 months after we'd bought the club when things had been stabilised. By the time he started his first full season we were pretty much safe and just needed to get promotion, which he did by finishing second with a pretty decent team. Sure, Neilson had Levein to lean on, but Doddie had a raft of gnarly veterans of Scottish football in the dressing room to help him out, and he was one himself. Again, to stress, this is not downplaying Doddie's achievements. As someone else said I think if Neilson had won the Championship by a couple of points on the last day he'd get a lot more credit for that season. And what we are discussing is their relative successes in their first couple of years, not what Doddie did 4 years after taking over.

 

 

Hearts had something like 13,000 season ticket holders in Neilson's first season! To compare the 2 is ludicrous but anyway I'm not getting into another spat about the Robster. He gets huge credit continually for the excellent Championship season which went better than anyone dared to think it would. After that meh, nothing of note, finished where he should have in 3rd in a very weak SPL, lost every big cup game we played and jumped before he was pushed. In my view to put him anywhere near Doddie is absurd and as I've continually pointed out Neilson has already managed the biggest club he ever will, in Hearts.

[socrates82]

hibs and rangers may well have had higher budgets -they didn't perform to them tho otherwise Alloa and Cowdenbeath wouldn't have troubled them so etc etc

 

that wasn't my point anyway my point was that Socrates has made a bit of a bungle of his past budget statements and hence any budget chat from him should be taken with a very very large bucket of salt

 

Christ I posted whatever news stories and documents there were for folk to make up their own minds! Do your own ****ing research.

[socrates82]

He gets tons of credit for the championship season. But his SPL time was a bit dull. In a season and a half he's lucky if he had three games that weren't humdrum.

 

In the context of the discussion you would have hated Doddie's first few years then! Finishing 3rd then competing for 2nd is far from humdrum for me.