Neilson's time at MKD is over (updated)

[Daveandal]

Robbie did a great job getting us out of the Championship and as others have said after that it was pretty unispired stuff. On a personal note I could not get over us loosing a 2 goal lead against the vermin it really got to me ( yes I know get over it and all that) however I wish Robbie all the best although I think his coat could be oan a shooglie nail if his recent results are anything to go by.

Do you hate JJ? He could have won us the league arguably if he could have beaten a Hibs team that ended up relegated.

[Lucille's Thirsty]

Robbie would be welcome back with open arms in any capacity.

 

A good young manager for us with his faults but he consistently got us winning at Tynie.

 

I still think he left early from us.

[Bazzas right boot]

you should have stopped at "you simply can't"

 

or what would have been more accurate coming from yourself is "I simply can't" or "I simply don't understand what type of structure, tests and assumptions would be required to make the conclusion I am quoting as fact in any way meaningful"

 

at least that's the messsge these types of posts from yourself convey

 

ironic your continued use of the word "nonsense"

Your posts convey very little.

 

Imo there are many factors that are different across eras of Football making comparison difficult.

 

However, a league table and results are black and white.

 

These back up Robbie having a better, in fact much better start than Alex.

 

Your structure, Tests and assumptions can be whatever you want them to be, I will simply point you to the league tables .

 

I was trying to entertain your opinion that Alex had a better start than Robbie with some reasoning.

 

I shouldn't have bothered, because in this case I am correct and you are wrong.

[Bazzas right boot]

Tosh is unable to rate a manager, player or team beyond results. Circumstances etc do not matter, it is all black and white to him.

It's not, you could argue either way who had it hardest in the lower league.

 

Alex, with the club stuttering or Robbie with rangers and hibs in he league.

With that in mind, why not just use the facts.

 

 

By default the second season was better as we were promoted.

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

Your posts convey very little.

 

Imo there are many factors that are different across eras of Football making comparison difficult.

 

However, a league table and results are black and white.

 

These back up Robbie having a better, in fact much better start than Alex.

 

Your structure, Tests and assumptions can be whatever you want them to be, I will simply point you to the league tables .

 

I was trying to entertain your opinion that Alex had a better start than Robbie with some reasoning.

 

I shouldn't have bothered, because in this case I am correct and you are wrong.

see that statistics for dummies one day course you appear to have been on

 

you should have gone back for the afternoon class

 

[Bowmans_Boot]

It's not, you could argue either way who had it hardest in the lower league.

 

Alex, with the club stuttering or Robbie with rangers and hibs in he league.

With that in mind, why not just use the facts.

 

 

By default the second season was better as we were promoted.

It isnt as simple as that but Im out.

[Spencer]

This thread has descended into what 99.9% descend into - bickering squabbling pish

 

Utter dugshit

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

This is just getting silly now Tosh

 

yes if only tosh had listened to yourself when presumably it was fine to challenge his ramblings

[Bazzas right boot]

see that statistics for dummies one day course you appear to have been on

 

you should have gone back for the afternoon class

 

Quality bantz.

[Hendricks]

Plenty games left for MK to get back in the mix but his squad isn't looking very strong and he had a go at his CBs in the media.

 

Needs to win his next game imo. They are already 6 or 7 points off the playoffs after 7 games and it could be 10 this weekend if they don't win at v Rochdale this weekend which is quite a bit to catch already.

 

Needs to stop tinkering with the team and find some consistency imo.

 

 

You seem to be doubting your earlier prediction of "He'll get them into the playoffs at least this year"?!!!

 

?I would agree with you that its a big old match for him this weekend, one they should win though. With an away derby the following Friday he would be under increasing pressure if he doesn't take the 3pts at home to a side below them. As you say he's had a go at a few players on the back of last nights result and the criticism I've read from their fans rings true in many ways, far too many changes when a settled side needs to be found and played. Sow again benched last night seems like madness (no doubt it will be the usual noises of he's just back etc) when they have managed 4 goals in 7 league matches. Will be interesting to see how things play out and whether Winkelman is prepared to give him time.

[MacDonald Jardine]

You simply can't.

 

You can try, but it's just a bit silly.

 

anyway-

 

Alex had 

 

finshed third in the 1 division his first season.

he had some very good young players, many that would stay for years. Many how now would leave after 2/3 seasons?

The financial state of the club was terrible, he was rebuilding.

Scottish football had a higher rep back then, the quality was better.

made us steadily better and that is harder to do over the long term, but we are only comparing the first 2.5 years, or I am, I am saying he had a better start, I am not saying he was the better manager for us, that would be a different debate

 

Robbie

had Rangers and hibs in the championship

was rebuilding, but this could be a positive as well as a negative, thankfully Robbie got it right.

Only here two and half years

 

 

The fact is Alex failed to get us promoted above Killie and I forget who else, Morton? and the season after got promoted in 2nd behind St Johnstone.

Robbie got us promoted in first place, then ended up 3rd in the higher league.

Both done nothing in the cups

Alex didn't get us in Europe the second season so cannot compare that result.

 

Quite simple really, he also left us 2nd, or about when he left halfway through the third season. There isn't even a debate.

 

Robbie had the better start. No ifs, no buts, no nothing. he had the better start than one of our best managers ever and folk still slated him. Fandigos. absolute fandangos.

IIRC MacDonald came in as manager more than half way through the season.

He failed to get Hearts promoted that year - against a very good Motherwell team and Kilmarnock.

They were promoted in his first full season, albeit not as Champions.

[Bowmans_Boot]

IIRC MacDonald came in as manager more than half way through the season.

He failed to get Hearts promoted that year - against a very good Motherwell team and Kilmarnock.

They were promoted in his first full season, albeit not as Champions.

I am sure he was appointed as FT manager after we lost to Forfar in the SC, which was February. He had been caretaker for a few months, Im sure.

[micole]

Do you hate JJ? He could have won us the league arguably if he could have beaten a Hibs team that ended up relegated.

 

No and I don't hate RN either I just felt he lost it a bit after that and for me personally that result was a bit hard to swollow, hate does not come into it.

[tian447]

You'll have to forgive me for not giving a toss about what a wee dafty from Dundee thinks.

 

 

I might live there but I'm not bloody from Dundee you tit

 

You really are chronic.

[Cruyff Turn]

You seem to be doubting your earlier prediction of "He'll get them into the playoffs at least this year"?!!!

 

?I would agree with you that its a big old match for him this weekend, one they should win though. With an away derby the following Friday he would be under increasing pressure if he doesn't take the 3pts at home to a side below them. As you say he's had a go at a few players on the back of last nights result and the criticism I've read from their fans rings true in many ways, far too many changes when a settled side needs to be found and played. Sow again benched last night seems like madness (no doubt it will be the usual noises of he's just back etc) when they have managed 4 goals in 7 league matches. Will be interesting to see how things play out and whether Winkelman is prepared to give him time.

I am now, I thought he'd be sitting on 12-14 points at the moment because he did quite well once he settled in last season, found his team and got them up the league.

 

What infuriated me about Robbie (and he seems to be doing it again) is the chopping and changing his system and his starting XI. It's a cliche but it's true, "consistency breeds success".

 

He needs to find his best XI in the coming weeks and once he does they will go on a run of games, I'm sure of that.

 

If his minimum target this season is playoffs then I think he'll have to be 7 to 9 points off the playoffs around the 25 game mark for the Chairman to keep him on.

 

He's not had a great start but he's certainly not having a mare either, below average after 7 games.

 

Rochdale is a big game for him this weekend definitely. In fact if he were to lose I think he'd be on borrowed time.

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

Some of the threads on The Concrete Roundabout make interesting reading: "Too defence minded especially away from home"......on Robbie Muirhead, "can someone explain this player to me"......"me thinks the honeymoon is well and truly over"......"we are shit at the back, crap in midfield and even worse up front, promotion my arse"......and on last night "2-0 was not a fair result it should have been 8 or 9.....something is seriously wrong".

 

There is little doubt its been a very disappointing start to the season for MK Dons. They were 4th/5th in the betting to win the league and you can currently get them at 7/2 to even finish in the top 6. However they have some very kind fixtures coming up and could easily go up a few places with some victories. Their next 4 are against teams currently below them; Rochdale, Wimbledon, Northampton and Bury and I'm sure Robbie will be looking for at least 3 wins in these. If it goes the other way he's in big trouble as they are likely to be in the relegation zone.

 

Ironically like Hearts they are the joint lowest scoring team so far with just 4 goals in 7 games.

Interesting comments. Definite patten emerging - really professional bright start turns into debilitating fear of losing with very few risks taken and a nagging feeling you'll never achieve anything special, and fans get fed up.

 

Another thing I'd say about Robbie - he is far too reactive to be a truly special coach. Everything he does is in response to what he thinks the opposition might do.

[socrates82]

Interesting comments. Definite patten emerging - really professional bright start turns into debilitating fear of losing with very few risks taken and a nagging feeling you'll never achieve anything special, and fans get fed up.

 

Another thing I'd say about Robbie - he is far too reactive to be a truly special coach. Everything he does is in response to what he thinks the opposition might do.

 

The strange thing about the negative comments from some Hearts fans about Neilson (not just yours) is the complete lack of recognition that he's still a very inexperienced manager learning his trade. This is what I don't get. It's like people are expecting the finished article after 2 or 3 seasons - makes no sense.

 

There are plenty of managers who start well, make a big splash and then you never hear from them again. Owen Coyle, Billy Davis, there's loads of them. Maybe Neilson is going to build his career more slowly and steadily?

 

If he is tinkering and experimenting in 5 or 10 years time, then fair dos, but there must be some leeway given surely too younger managers (like players get) when they're starting out? They're going to change things because they realise there's a better way, and they're going to look at what the opposition does because they may not yet have full confidence in their own set-ups. Although personally I think setting up to combat the opposition and attack their weak spots or protect yours is a part of football management.

 

The thing that makes Neilson a better rookie coach than Cathro for example is that Neilson did change things. He started with a quite an idealistic ball retention and footballing philosophy but became more pragmatic and focused on getting results as time went on when he realised it was a lost cause to try to make players do things they couldn't do, which is what Cathro persisted with. It worked in the championship because the players we had were a cut above most of the other teams, and even if Hibs and Rangers had some better players in some positions, Neilson's ability to pick up points led to us skooshing the league.

 

For example, our style changed considerably to what people are calling "boring" after Sow left. He was one player who could do things with the ball and make things happen. The thing that marks Neilson out as a good coach though is he still got us into 3rd place. He realised we hadn't replaced Sow and were missing creativity in other areas and we went for points first and foremost. I really fail to see the problem with that.

 

I fully expect him to manage another Premiership team or at least a Championship team in England in future. I also wouldn't be surprised if he went abroad for a bit. He's an intelligent, ambitious coach who's willing to take risks. Definitely worth watching how he progresses compared to the dinosaurs we so often get managing teams in Scotland.

[socrates82]

This thread has descended into what 99.9% descend into - bickering squabbling pish

 

Utter dugshit

 

Maybe we should all start bigging Hibs up again? They're just so much more "progressive" than us after all.

[N Lincs Jambo]

I was looking at the London Hearts site earlier today to do some research with a view to posting on another thread. I have known for a long time about the derby crowd of 65840 in 1950 as that being a record crowd. At the time, Hibs led the league and Hearts were 2nd. However on checking into the stats on earlier in the season, after about 6 games Hearts were 2nd bottom and looking at relegation. We then won the next 12 inc the game at Fester before losing a couple. Point is too many people are rushing in to judge too early on imho. Robbie may well get MK Dons promotion. Not fussed in the slightest about MK but he was a hell of a good servant to Hearts so wish him success.

[Hendricks]

Interesting comments. Definite patten emerging - really professional bright start turns into debilitating fear of losing with very few risks taken and a nagging feeling you'll never achieve anything special, and fans get fed up.

 

Another thing I'd say about Robbie - he is far too reactive to be a truly special coach. Everything he does is in response to what he thinks the opposition might do.

 

 

Over thinks things far too often. We went from playing with pace and freedom to being ponderous and worrying about other teams too much especially away from home. Neilson's career in England will be over if he's fired from MK Dons, someone with his limited CV and background who is not known down there is never managing at a higher level if he fails in that job. Still time to turn it around but need to start getting some results I would imagine.

[Bazzas right boot]

The strange thing about the negative comments from some Hearts fans about Neilson (not just yours) is the complete lack of recognition that he's still a very inexperienced manager learning his trade. This is what I don't get. It's like people are expecting the finished article after 2 or 3 seasons - makes no sense.

 

There are plenty of managers who start well, make a big splash and then you never hear from them again. Owen Coyle, Billy Davis, there's loads of them. Maybe Neilson is going to build his career more slowly and steadily?

 

If he is tinkering and experimenting in 5 or 10 years time, then fair dos, but there must be some leeway given surely too younger managers (like players get) when they're starting out? They're going to change things because they realise there's a better way, and they're going to look at what the opposition does because they may not yet have full confidence in their own set-ups. Although personally I think setting up to combat the opposition and attack their weak spots or protect yours is a part of football management.

 

The thing that makes Neilson a better rookie coach than Cathro for example is that Neilson did change things. He started with a quite an idealistic ball retention and footballing philosophy but became more pragmatic and focused on getting results as time went on when he realised it was a lost cause to try to make players do things they couldn't do, which is what Cathro persisted with. It worked in the championship because the players we had were a cut above most of the other teams, and even if Hibs and Rangers had some better players in some positions, Neilson's ability to pick up points led to us skooshing the league.

 

For example, our style changed considerably to what people are calling "boring" after Sow left. He was one player who could do things with the ball and make things happen. The thing that marks Neilson out as a good coach though is he still got us into 3rd place. He realised we hadn't replaced Sow and were missing creativity in other areas and we went for points first and foremost. I really fail to see the problem with that.

 

I fully expect him to manage another Premiership team or at least a Championship team in England in future. I also wouldn't be surprised if he went abroad for a bit. He's an intelligent, ambitious coach who's willing to take risks. Definitely worth watching how he progresses compared to the dinosaurs we so often get managing teams in Scotland.

 

 

all  good, but hibs beat us so none of that matters.  

[Son Of Anarchy]

all good, but hibs beat us so none of that matters.

Did they? I'd forgotten

[Spencer]

Maybe we should all start bigging Hibs up again? They're just so much more "progressive" than us after all.

Forget about Hibs. Just focus on Hearts fella. Let it go

[Spencer]

yes if only tosh had listened to yourself when presumably it was fine to challenge his ramblings

Challenge away. It's just another thread that's descended into nonsense.

 

Just my view of course. Many will have differing views

[PhoenixHearts]

Robbies last ten games. Doesnae make for great reading...

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Stick to the photaes man.

[socrates82]

all good, but hibs beat us so none of that matters.

I believe he was also expected to challenge Celtic for the league and win the league cup and europa league. I mean come on he'd been a manager for two whole years!

[Hendricks]

I believe he was also expected to challenge Celtic for the league and win the league cup and europa league. I mean come on he'd been a manager for two whole years!

 

 

Well JammyT predicted he would win us the league........

 

Unfortunately one of the major gripes of Hearts fans who have a more balanced opinion than you re Neilson is the fact he couldn't even beat a Championship Hibs, St Johnstone or a Maltese team in Europe never mind any notion of going deep in any cup tornamanent. His cup record was abysmal and it cost him a lot of support. 

[Thomaso]

Robbie is one of the most successful Hearts players and managers of all time. I love the guy.

 

As for the Phoodle chat. You might have season tickets, you might go to every away game, you might have Hearts tattoos, you might be able to name every Hearts starting 11 of all time but if you are into planes and Phoodles you're not a Hearts fan in my book.

 

Is that your "I Love Robbie" scrap book that you keep under your pillow??? LOL

[Thomaso]

Well JammyT predicted he would win us the league........

 

Unfortunately one of the major gripes of Hearts fans who have a more balanced opinion than you re Neilson is the fact he couldn't even beat a Championship Hibs, St Johnstone or a Maltese team in Europe never mind any notion of going deep in any cup tornamanent. His cup record was abysmal and it cost him a lot of support.

 

 

 

Correct!!

[Daveandal]

Is that your "I Love Robbie" scrap book that you keep under your pillow??? LOL

I have a poster of him on my wall. Kiss it before bed every night. X

[smiler]

Correct!!

Orrrrrrrrr

They didn't like him as a player for us, were enraged when he became our coach, refused to acknowledge any good work he did, and are now rejoicing that he's struggling a bit.

Piss poor really but not surprising from you Shomato.

[smiler]

I have a poster of him on my wall. Kiss it before bed every night. X

Nothing wrong with that mate, honesty is a healthy trait.

[Bazzas right boot]

Well JammyT predicted he would win us the league........

 

Unfortunately one of the major gripes of Hearts fans who have a more balanced opinion than you re Neilson is the fact he couldn't even beat a Championship Hibs, St Johnstone or a Maltese team in Europe never mind any notion of going deep in any cup tornamanent. His cup record was abysmal and it cost him a lot of support.

We've won 3 cups in almost 60 years, many managers have had poor records in the cups.

 

Not many won the championship, then finished 3rd then left us in second in the first 2.5 years. This while the club was rebuilding it's entire Infrastructure.

 

Room for improvement- yes, reason for hiring planes and wanting him gone, imo only if your a lunatic with no grasp on reality.

[smiler]

We've won 3 cups in almost 60 years, many managers have had poor records in the cups.

 

Not many won the championship, then finished 3rd then left us in second in the first 2.5 years. This while the club was rebuilding it's entire Infrastructure.

 

Room for improvement- yes, reason for hiring planes and wanting him gone, imo only if your a lunatic with no grasp on reality.

Cani really argue with any of that Tosh my man, makes a change a

[Bazzas right boot]

Cani really argue with any of that Tosh my man, makes a change a

 

[Hendricks]

We've won 3 cups in almost 60 years, many managers have had poor records in the cups.

 

Not many won the championship, then finished 3rd then left us in second in the first 2.5 years. This while the club was rebuilding it's entire Infrastructure.

 

Room for improvement- yes, reason for hiring planes and wanting him gone, imo only if your a lunatic with no grasp on reality.

 

 

Aye, the good old plane argument!  Setup by a handful of bams with too much time and seemingly money!  Nothing to do with the many Hearts fans who justifiably had mixed feelings about Neilson's tenure. One thing you are generally correct about is our domestic cup record (see the thread I started earlier this season!) but the point being made is not about previous years, its about Neilson's time and his cup record was dire. In the "60 years" previously, indeed in the 110 (or whatever) years previously NO Hearts manager had watched Hibernian win the Scottish Cup and seen us lose to them over 2 games either. Now thats historical and exacerbates the entire thing. That can't ever be whitewashed.......que the it wasn't Neilson's fault they then beat Rangers etc etc!!

[smiler]

Titter

[Bazzas right boot]

Aye, the good old plane argument! Setup by a handful of bams with too much time and seemingly money! Nothing to do with the many Hearts fans who justifiably had mixed feelings about Neilson's tenure. One thing you are generally correct about is our domestic cup record (see the thread I started earlier this season!) but the point being made is not about previous years, its about Neilson's time and his cup record was dire. In the "60 years" previously, indeed in the 110 (or whatever) years previously NO Hearts manager had watched Hibernian win the Scottish Cup and seen us lose to them over 2 games either. Now thats historical and exacerbates the entire thing. That can't ever be whitewashed.......que the it wasn't Neilson's fault they then beat Rangers etc etc!!

You answer your own question at the end there.

 

Are you advocating we sack our manager's based on what hibs do?

 

If hibs are shit it's ok if we're also shite. However, if hibs manage to win a cup, it's our fault for letting them do so?

 

You'd think Robbie also had a Stokes' mask. He stuck it on and scored the winner for them in the final.

 

If your basing your opinion of Robbie on hibs Winning a cup you're a complete "radge" imo.

[socrates82]

Well JammyT predicted he would win us the league........

 

Unfortunately one of the major gripes of Hearts fans who have a more balanced opinion than you re Neilson is the fact he couldn't even beat a Championship Hibs, St Johnstone or a Maltese team in Europe never mind any notion of going deep in any cup tornamanent. His cup record was abysmal and it cost him a lot of support.

While he was in charge St J never got near us in the league. And he condemned Hibs to at least another 1 year in the lower league.

 

He lost a couple of cup ties. Whoopdedoo. So has every other hearts manager ever, nevermind a rookie.

 

Admit it youre judging him on one game.

[Thomaso]

Orrrrrrrrr

They didn't like him as a player for us, were enraged when he became our coach, refused to acknowledge any good work he did, and are now rejoicing that he's struggling a bit.

Piss poor really but not surprising from you Shomato.

 

 

"Rejoicing"???? Don't talk drivel Shmiler - I don't give a toss how Neilson manages another Club!

[WageThief]

Aye, the good old plane argument!  Setup by a handful of bams with too much time and seemingly money!  Nothing to do with the many Hearts fans who justifiably had mixed feelings about Neilson's tenure. One thing you are generally correct about is our domestic cup record (see the thread I started earlier this season!) but the point being made is not about previous years, its about Neilson's time and his cup record was dire. In the "60 years" previously, indeed in the 110 (or whatever) years previously NO Hearts manager had watched Hibernian win the Scottish Cup and seen us lose to them over 2 games either. Now thats historical and exacerbates the entire thing. That can't ever be whitewashed.......que the it wasn't Neilson's fault they then beat Rangers etc etc!!

 

How do you know Nielson watched the game?

[Bazzas right boot]

How do you know Nielson watched the game?

 

He was player/ manager for hibs, he won them the cup.

[socrates82]

He was player/ manager for hibs, he won them the cup.

 

I heard it was Neilson wearing a Liam Henderson mask who put the cross in for the Hibs winner.

[Hearts First]

Ach never mind. We got a money spinning replay out of it.

[Bowmans_Boot]

Ach never mind. We got a money spinning replay out of it.

And that was one of Robbies big mistakes: he didnt apoear to understand how the Hearts support were feeling after the first match. Of course it wasnt entirely his fault that Hibs won the cup, but he seemed to totally miss what effect of blowing a 2 goal lead would have on the fans. For him, the consolation was a money spinning replay. For the fans, only a victory in the replay would have sufficed and he didnt appear to get that.

 

That moment was when he lost a fair few fans.

[MacDonald Jardine]

We've won 3 cups in almost 60 years, many managers have had poor records in the cups.

 

Not many won the championship, then finished 3rd then left us in second in the first 2.5 years. This while the club was rebuilding it's entire Infrastructure.

 

Room for improvement- yes, reason for hiring planes and wanting him gone, imo only if your a lunatic with no grasp on reality.

Not as poor as his though. How many cup ties did he win?

[socrates82]

And that was one of Robbies big mistakes: he didnt apoear to understand how the Hearts support were feeling after the first match. Of course it wasnt entirely his fault that Hibs won the cup, but he seemed to totally miss what effect of blowing a 2 goal lead would have on the fans. For him, the consolation was a money spinning replay. For the fans, only a victory in the replay would have sufficed and he didnt appear to get that.

 

That moment was when he lost a fair few fans.

 

Judging Neilson on one throwaway remark is absurd, as is actually believing that a guy who spent almost his entire playing career with Hearts, as well as coaching and managing them, doesn't get how derbies affect fans. In case you didn't notice, media work was not exactly Robbie's strong point! You could barely hear him speak in interviews!

[Notts1874]

Folk still having a pop at the MK Dons manager I see.

 

Weird behaviour.

[socrates82]

Not as poor as his though. How many cup ties did he win?

 

Who did he play in early rounds though compared to other managers? I don't remember us ever drawing teams like Celtic, Aberdeen and Hibs in the cup at such an early stage so often. I also don't remember ever playing in Europe at such an early stage in summer.

 

The facts are that Neilson only lost to Celtic, Hibs and St J in the cups (most of them away fixtures) - hardly a disgrace when you look back at who other managers have lost to.

 

I mean how unlucky was he to get Celtic at early stages of the League and Scottish cups in his first season? Then when he does go on a cup run he gets Celtic again in the QF. Cups are a lottery. We've been massively unlucky with our draws the last 3 years. I fully expect that to even out and we'll get an easier path to a semi or final soon enough. 

 

Look back over our cup wins. Usually we've had a few easier ties to enable us to build up momentum before getting one of the OF or a tougher tie later on.

[Bowmans_Boot]

Judging Neilson on one throwaway remark is absurd, as is actually believing that a guy who spent almost his entire playing career with Hearts, as well as coaching and managing them, doesn't get how derbies affect fans. In case you didn't notice, media work was not exactly Robbie's strong point! You could barely hear him speak in interviews!

He didnt appear to "get it" then, no. It was particularly surprising given his time with Hearts, I agree, but I always longed for the Robbie of the Ozturk derby: look at the passion he showed after that goal, almost Locke-esque. I just wish he had shown that more often.

 

It isnt fair to judge him on one poor comment, no, but the fact remains that he lost a lot of goodwill from the support as a direct result of it.

 

Despite certain people claiming otherwise, I am not anti Robbie at all, by the way.