kila Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 How it looks tonight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daveandal Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 How it looks tonight Still a few prime seats left in the Wheatfield. Baring a big unexpected signing I think the only chance of a spike in sales would be turning Celtic over on the opening day. Still hopeful we can get close to 14,000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hueyview Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 How it looks tonight Still one seat free either side of Premier in the main stand.... Hope the remaining Premier seats,after the season starts are sold for walkups. Nice to get tickets for graduation, birthday or other special occasions..... Ticket prices ?40-?50 ? Has the walkup prices for this season been released yet....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboJen Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 Still a few prime seats left in the Wheatfield. Baring a big unexpected signing I think the only chance of a spike in sales would be turning Celtic over on the opening day. Still hopeful we can get close to 14,000. Agree, I don't think we'll be very far away from 14,000. Going by FF's dot counts we're selling about 15 tickets per day, so that would be around another 150 before the end of the month, and hopefully a further boost next weekend as it'll be pay weekend for many. The start of the season (including cup games) will be important. I'm sure back in 05/06 there was a huge boost in ST sales after the league season had started, although admittedly we didn't have anywhere near the starting ST base back then, so it's hard to say how much more scope there is to increase our ST numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mars plastic Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 Still one seat free either side of Premier in the main stand.... Hope the remaining Premier seats,after the season starts are sold for walkups. Nice to get tickets for graduation, birthday or other special occasions..... Ticket prices ?40-?50 ? Has the walkup prices for this season been released yet....... Hope not. Don't want day trippers coming up for a neb and trying them out. I'll maybe write to the club and ask them not to sell them on a game by game basis. Aye, good idea marsy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JALBO Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 Just checked back through sales since the club announced we'd sold over 13,000, and it looks as if we've made about 400 more sales based on the dots that we've been counting, plus whatever we can't check (hospitality season passes, etc). I suspect we're now at around 13,500 sales in total, possibly slightly more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckydug Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 Hope not. Don't want day trippers coming up for a neb and trying them out. I'll maybe write to the club and ask them not to sell them on a game by game basis. Aye, good idea marsy. That post just illustrates why nobody takes you seriously. Nobody knows what your real opinions are as everything you post is posted with the sole intention of winding folk up. You can post some smart Alec reply if you like but I won't be reading it anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hueyview Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 Hope not. Don't want day trippers coming up for a neb and trying them out. I'll maybe write to the club and ask them not to sell them on a game by game basis. Aye, good idea marsy. Keep the serfs in their place.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Sifter Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 If you think I've been donating to the FOH to build a bigger better stadium for away fans then think again. It might take time for Hearts fans to grow into our new sized stadium but that's time they should be given, if we can afford to build and refurbish Tynecastle on 16000 gates, then we can afford a few empty seats in a bigger stadium. For a wee while at least. Absolutely 100% agree. If we can calculate how much more money we can generate by giving the OF the whole stand, can we also calculate how many of our own fans will be pissed off, how their 'wall of noise' will detrimentally affect our team, and how it will positively affect their team. WE are building the stadium to grow OUR fan base, not to increase the amount of tickets we give to those wankers. We've been trusted to put our hand in our pockets time and time again for HMFC...this is a prime opportunity for the board to trust our fan base to grow over the next couple of years. I so hope they do the right thing. If it was all about pounds and pence, we wouldn't be increasing costs of the main stand build, and we wouldn't be allowing players to go for nowt. Do the right thing Hearts. **** The OF, give us the time and space to grow our club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 Just checked back through sales since the club announced we'd sold over 13,000, and it looks as if we've made about 400 more sales based on the dots that we've been counting, plus whatever we can't check (hospitality season passes, etc). I suspect we're now at around 13,500 sales in total, possibly slightly more. By my counting, there were 2,837 dots available on 30 June (the day the club announced the 13,000 figure). There are now 2,267 dots or 570 fewer. We've seen block of dots disappear since then, in the wing sections of N & T (some of T were never available), plus a block in each of the front and rear sections of H. I'd estimate that 120 were removed in N, around 65 in T, and 70 in total in H, so maybe 255 in total. That would suggest 315 actual ST sales since the end of last month, plus any new hospitality, wheelchair or other ST sales. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mars plastic Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 Keep the serfs in their place.... Indeed. Us Premium'ers have certain standards that the proles couldn't live up to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mars plastic Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 That post just illustrates why nobody takes you seriously. Nobody knows what your real opinions are as everything you post is posted with the sole intention of winding folk up. You can post some smart Alec reply if you like but I won't be reading it anyway. Ffs, lighten up ya big dafty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvery_Moon Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 Absolutely 100% agree. If we can calculate how much more money we can generate by giving the OF the whole stand, can we also calculate how many of our own fans will be pissed off, how their 'wall of noise' will detrimentally affect our team, and how it will positively affect their team. WE are building the stadium to grow OUR fan base, not to increase the amount of tickets we give to those wankers. We've been trusted to put our hand in our pockets time and time again for HMFC...this is a prime opportunity for the board to trust our fan base to grow over the next couple of years. I so hope they do the right thing. If it was all about pounds and pence, we wouldn't be increasing costs of the main stand build, and we wouldn't be allowing players to go for nowt. Do the right thing Hearts. **** The OF, give us the time and space to grow our club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mars plastic Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 Absolutely 100% agree. If we can calculate how much more money we can generate by giving the OF the whole stand, can we also calculate how many of our own fans will be pissed off, how their 'wall of noise' will detrimentally affect our team, and how it will positively affect their team. WE are building the stadium to grow OUR fan base, not to increase the amount of tickets we give to those wankers. We've been trusted to put our hand in our pockets time and time again for HMFC...this is a prime opportunity for the board to trust our fan base to grow over the next couple of years. I so hope they do the right thing. If it was all about pounds and pence, we wouldn't be increasing costs of the main stand build, and we wouldn't be allowing players to go for nowt. Do the right thing Hearts. **** The OF, give us the time and space to grow our club. The club bowed to fan pressure when we played Celtic in the LC in 2015 only to be left with egg on their face when the uptake from fans was woeful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacDonald Jardine Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 Absolutely 100% agree. If we can calculate how much more money we can generate by giving the OF the whole stand, can we also calculate how many of our own fans will be pissed off, how their 'wall of noise' will detrimentally affect our team, and how it will positively affect their team. WE are building the stadium to grow OUR fan base, not to increase the amount of tickets we give to those wankers. We've been trusted to put our hand in our pockets time and time again for HMFC...this is a prime opportunity for the board to trust our fan base to grow over the next couple of years. I so hope they do the right thing. If it was all about pounds and pence, we wouldn't be increasing costs of the main stand build, and we wouldn't be allowing players to go for nowt. Do the right thing Hearts. **** The OF, give us the time and space to grow our club. You're absolutely right on one level but the "we' who put our hands in our pocket are the same 8-10000 over and over.Consistently finding another 3000 odds is a whole different ball game. Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hueyview Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 By my counting, there were 2,837 dots available on 30 June (the day the club announced the 13,000 figure). There are now 2,267 dots or 570 fewer. We've seen block of dots disappear since then, in the wing sections of N & T (some of T were never available), plus a block in each of the front and rear sections of H. I'd estimate that 120 were removed in N, around 65 in T, and 70 in total in H, so maybe 255 in total. That would suggest 315 actual ST sales since the end of last month, plus any new hospitality, wheelchair or other ST sales. That kind of tallies with 12-15 sales each day..maybe a payday bump at the end of the month.... Pretty ear last years uptake.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckydug Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 Two ways of looking at these sales imo. A negative view would be that we have failed to increase our ST base. A more positive view would be that ST holders mostly have resisted the temptation to pay on a game by game basis thinking that there would be plenty of tickets available due to our increased capacity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paris 84 Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 You know the posters that get right on my tits? The one's with encyclopaedic memories of bad times, bad news, bad decisions, bad results, bad times, bad managers, bad players and bad owners. They're ****in relentless. They never tire of bringing something negative up. It's almost like it's their sole reason for being a member on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 You're absolutely right on one level but the "we' who put our hands in our pocket are the same 8-10000 over and over. Consistently finding another 3000 odds is a whole different ball game. Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk Going by recent year's attendances a lot more than 8-10000 regularly put their hands in their pockets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wavydavy Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 Two ways of looking at these sales imo. A negative view would be that we have failed to increase our ST base. A more positive view would be that ST holders mostly have resisted the temptation to pay on a game by game basis thinking that there would be plenty of tickets available due to our increased capacity. Or you could also say that considering the dire form we showed in the second half of the season we are doing remarkably well to have still outsold our neighbours who have been claiming all the positives even in defeat, like tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August Landmesser Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 Absolutely 100% agree. If we can calculate how much more money we can generate by giving the OF the whole stand, can we also calculate how many of our own fans will be pissed off, how their 'wall of noise' will detrimentally affect our team, and how it will positively affect their team. WE are building the stadium to grow OUR fan base, not to increase the amount of tickets we give to those wankers. We've been trusted to put our hand in our pockets time and time again for HMFC...this is a prime opportunity for the board to trust our fan base to grow over the next couple of years. I so hope they do the right thing. If it was all about pounds and pence, we wouldn't be increasing costs of the main stand build, and we wouldn't be allowing players to go for nowt. Do the right thing Hearts. **** The OF, give us the time and space to grow our club. 100% this. Sent from my FP2 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hueyview Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 I think the average gates last season were 16,500 plus. This will probably rise to 18,000 p!us..... 6 full houses of near 20,000 should help. A good few folk will start getting walkup match tickets..folk like myself who do not get season tickets.. A couple of decent results at tynecastle after the stand opens should lift the spirits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwindonJambo Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 Absolutely 100% agree. If we can calculate how much more money we can generate by giving the OF the whole stand, can we also calculate how many of our own fans will be pissed off, how their 'wall of noise' will detrimentally affect our team, and how it will positively affect their team. WE are building the stadium to grow OUR fan base, not to increase the amount of tickets we give to those wankers. We've been trusted to put our hand in our pockets time and time again for HMFC...this is a prime opportunity for the board to trust our fan base to grow over the next couple of years. I so hope they do the right thing. If it was all about pounds and pence, we wouldn't be increasing costs of the main stand build, and we wouldn't be allowing players to go for nowt. Do the right thing Hearts. **** The OF, give us the time and space to grow our club. Excellent post. The OF can ram it. We don't need to be subjected to their anthems of murder and hate sung at a level of decibels. I'm against banning them completely as you do need some atmosphere but 2 sections is plenty for that mob. A whole stand is far too many. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hueyview Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 Or you could also say that considering the dire form we showed in the second half of the season we are doing remarkably well to have still outsold our neighbours who have been claiming all the positives even in defeat, like tonight.fair point... Hearts are the bigger supported club, but hibs did well to get 15,000 plus averages last season.. By the radio hibs were the best team for most of the game tonight, but were hopeless in front of goal... I see 18,000 averages at tynecastle and 16,500 plus at easter road....the largest Edinburgh turnouts since 1980s... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckydug Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 You know the posters that get right on my tits? The one's with encyclopaedic memories of bad times, bad news, bad decisions, bad results, bad times, bad managers, bad players and bad owners. They're ****** relentless. They never tire of bringing something negative up. It's almost like it's their sole reason for being a member on here. Not grudging you a wee rant mate but wtf has that got to do with ST sales ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hueyview Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 Indeed. Us Premium'ers have certain standards that the proles couldn't live up to. Oil of ulay in the bogs Use of cigarette holders...don't you know Fans(electrical)to wiff away the unwashed smell Cashmere blankets Going to be some great banter.........the mixing of the classes in the Premier..... Paper aeroplanes to Mr levien.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zibi Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 **** the Old Filth and Hibernian FC. Filth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgie_Rules Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 Hopefully the club announce 13,500 before next pay weekend to try give sales a boost. I think come the end of sales we will have creeped up to the 13,700ish of last season, and when you consider how poor we have been last season and the increased capacity that is a good effort. A successful season this time round and we will comfortably make 14,000 next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott herbertson Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 Given it will be quite a few peoples first game back at Tynecastle since last season (those who missed the friendly) would hope there's a wee boost in sales today. A great effort considering the increased capacity means there is no danger of there being no walks ups available for any game unless we go on a Burleyesque run at the seasons start ( unlikely with our fixture list) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paris 84 Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 Not grudging you a wee rant mate but wtf has that got to do with ST sales ? A bit pished last night and got annoyed reading the same negative shite on every thread. Crap wind up merchants and Hun sympathisers annoy the **** out of me. I've got at least half a dozen of the ****ers on ignore but some people just keep quoting them and try as I do, I still get subjected to their primary school antics. Completely sober I would have just ignored, my fault!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Section Q Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 Indeed. Us Premium'ers have certain standards that the proles couldn't live up to. What's to stop someone from another section wandering over during the match and sitting in an empty premium seat..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bull's-eye Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 What's to stop someone from another section wandering over during the match and sitting in an empty premium seat..? Mars is banking on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mars plastic Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 What's to stop someone from another section wandering over during the match and sitting in an empty premium seat..? Nothing at all, however, like this place, there will be folk falling over themselves to grass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psychedelicropcircle Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 the way some folks are going on about their premium ST you'd think it comes with a seat on the board. so you payed an extra couple o hundred quid big deal! The sort that chat in the boozer about how much their hoose went up in value zzzzzzz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mars plastic Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 the way some folks are going on about their premium ST you'd think it comes with a seat on the board. so you payed an extra couple o hundred quid big deal! The sort that chat in the boozer about how much their hoose went up in value zzzzzzz. Relax. I suspect they are at the lash, fellah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Independence Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 Walker resigning could add several hundred more. This would prove our intent. Come on Jamie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboJen Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 Absolutely 100% agree. If we can calculate how much more money we can generate by giving the OF the whole stand, can we also calculate how many of our own fans will be pissed off, how their 'wall of noise' will detrimentally affect our team, and how it will positively affect their team. WE are building the stadium to grow OUR fan base, not to increase the amount of tickets we give to those wankers. We've been trusted to put our hand in our pockets time and time again for HMFC...this is a prime opportunity for the board to trust our fan base to grow over the next couple of years. I so hope they do the right thing. If it was all about pounds and pence, we wouldn't be increasing costs of the main stand build, and we wouldn't be allowing players to go for nowt. Do the right thing Hearts. **** The OF, give us the time and space to grow our club. 2,500ish walk ups for category A matches isn't ridiculous to aim for. The sooner the club gets tickets on sale the better. And if we restrict Rangers and Celtic, we'll surely restrict Hibs as well. They would have been had they been up last season so no reason not to this season. I highly doubt they can't afford to restrict us at ER. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mars plastic Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 2,500ish walk ups for category A matches isn't ridiculous to aim for. The sooner the club gets tickets on sale the better. And if we restrict Rangers and Celtic, we'll surely restrict Hibs as well. They would have been had they been up last season so no reason not to this season. I highly doubt they can't afford to restrict us at ER. You're deluded of you think hibs won't cut our allocation if we do the same, which we'll not anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poultry Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 2,500ish walk ups for category A matches isn't ridiculous to aim for. The sooner the club gets tickets on sale the better. And if we restrict Rangers and Celtic, we'll surely restrict Hibs as well. They would have been had they been up last season so no reason not to this season. I highly doubt they can't afford to restrict us at ER. Agree and if they restrict us at fester Rd they won't and can't fill it separate stands at lego city. I would give no team the whole of the Roseburn. I think Hearts can fill it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Section Q Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 If we put the cat A games on sale now, we'll soon guage how many we can sell to our own fans....Simple...! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJGJ Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 Agree and if they restrict us at fester Rd they won't and can't fill it separate stands at lego city. I would give no team the whole of the Roseburn. I think Hearts can fill it. So when Hibs restrict our allocation in return and hundreds, no maybe a couple of thousand Hearts fans don't get tickets your fine with that ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mars plastic Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 If we put the cat A games on sale now, we'll soon guage how many we can sell to our own fans....Simple...! Fair weathers aren't going to commit until they see how the team is doing. No chance they'll want to go if we've nae points come the end of august. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mars plastic Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 So when Hibs restrict our allocation in return and hundreds, no maybe a couple of thousand Hearts fans don't get tickets your fine with that ? Aye, but they'll not do that according to most on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poultry Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 So when Hibs restrict our allocation in return and hundreds, no maybe a couple of thousand Hearts fans don't get tickets your fine with that ? in all honesty I don't think they would cut it, but if they did I'm happy to think they loose thousands of pounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayTeeJnr Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 If we put the cat A games on sale now, we'll soon guage how many we can sell to our own fans....Simple...! Fair weathers aren't going to commit until they see how the team is doing. No chance they'll want to go if we've nae points come the end of august. I'm sure there are lots of supporters, like me and the kids, who don't have a season ticket because they can't get to many games for a multitude of reasons. Mine is because I live hundreds of miles away and have commitments that stop me making the long trek for every home game. I'd buy tickets now for any game we can make, such as Kilmarnock away (not relevant to this discussion), Aberdeen home and Rangers home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboJen Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 You're deluded of you think hibs won't cut our allocation if we do the same, which we'll not anyway. Given that Hibs were selling season tickets in February and are selling match tickets for every home league game already, I'd suggest they need the cash. They cut Rangers allocation in the playoffs because they decided the potential sporting advantage of a smaller away crowd gave them a better chance of promotion and therefore more money long term than an extra 2,000 rangers fans would have earned them. If they halved our allocation they'd have to find 5,000 walk ups to sell their own seats and replace us. I don't know if we'll cut their allocation, but as I said, we would have last season as our season tickets were already on sale in the Roseburn before we knew what league Hibs would be in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott herbertson Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 I'm sure there are lots of supporters, like me and the kids, who don't have a season ticket because they can't get to many games for a multitude of reasons. Mine is because I live hundreds of miles away and have commitments that stop me making the long trek for every home game. I'd buy tickets now for any game we can make, such as Kilmarnock away (not relevant to this discussion), Aberdeen home and Rangers home. Well done mate One problem with selling the Rangers game for example now as on open sales that that seat then wouldn't be available as a season ticket so we might put off potential ST buyers if there are limited poor positioned seats available Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mars plastic Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 Given that Hibs were selling season tickets in February and are selling match tickets for every home league game already, I'd suggest they need the cash. They cut Rangers allocation in the playoffs because they decided the potential sporting advantage of a smaller away crowd gave them a better chance of promotion and therefore more money long term than an extra 2,000 rangers fans would have earned them. If they halved our allocation they'd have to find 5,000 walk ups to sell their own seats and replace us. I don't know if we'll cut their allocation, but as I said, we would have last season as our season tickets were already on sale in the Roseburn before we knew what league Hibs would be in. Petrie is a knob and would cut our allocation out of spite even though he'd come under pressure from his own fans to cut it. Tbh, I'd rather we had as many fans at ER as possible and if that means us giving them the entire Roseburn then that's fine with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboJen Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 Petrie is a knob and would cut our allocation out of spite even though he'd come under pressure from his own fans to cut it. Tbh, I'd rather we had as many fans at ER as possible and if that means us giving them the entire Roseburn then that's fine with me. Petrie may be a knob but he's also tight-fisted and if he can't sell South Stand seats to Hibs fans he'll happily take the money from us IMO. I'd absolutely want to keep the full end at Easter Road, although sharing the end with them in the Obua derby was wonderful! I just don't think that us cutting their allocation would immediately mean they'd cut ours. But that's really by the by. As long as we continue to keep the OF at two sections I'm happy, and I think we have the fan base to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mars plastic Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 Petrie may be a knob but he's also tight-fisted and if he can't sell South Stand seats to Hibs fans he'll happily take the money from us IMO. I'd absolutely want to keep the full end at Easter Road, although sharing the end with them in the Obua derby was wonderful! I just don't think that us cutting their allocation would immediately mean they'd cut ours. But that's really by the by. As long as we continue to keep the OF at two sections I'm happy, and I think we have the fan base to do it. I don't think he'd bother about it being half empty. He'll be happy enough at having potentially 3 or 4 visits of Celtic and Rangers which they've not had for quite a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.