General Election

[Bowmans_Boot]

They do pick up on it but snp just fire of the usual snp bad/ deflection/Westminster etc

They dont. They just go on and on and on about independence, whereas the SNP talk about actual issues and policies.

[Bowmans_Boot]

Correct. And even though I don't vote Tory and never will, I'll more than likely be better off financially.

 

It's a no lose situation, 1 step closer to Independence, I can get even more blootered at weekends.

Good God.

[Space Mackerel]

Good God.

You don't do sarcasm :-/

[Bazzas right boot]

You would think one of the unionist parties would have picked up on this, no?

 

I came home from work to a last minute SL flier: it mentioned SNP more than it mentioned Labour. The two main points:

 

Why I shouldnt vote SNP: they want another, divisive referendum.

 

Why I should vote SL: they dont want another, divisive referendum.

 

 

The NHS and police have been far more protected than they have down south.

 

Add in schools and socail care, its not ideal, but with a decreased business and a debt that is getting bigger under the Tories, what you going to do.

 

Down south, the NHS, care and education system is collapsing as we speak.

 

The SNP have acted as a shield, but as in start trek the shields are failing.

 

If the Tories get a land slide, the full effect will be seen.

[Trapper John McIntyre]

They dont. They just go on and on and on about independence, whereas the SNP talk about actual issues and policies.

Really? They want to talk about actual issues and policies?

 

You mean how they've fecked up health, education, police etc, and why Scotland is lagging behind the rest of the UK?

[Bazzas right boot]

Really? They want to talk about actual issues and policies?

 

You mean how they've fecked up health, education, police etc, and why Scotland is lagging behind the rest of the UK?

 

But its not. Really, not.

 

Down south is a mess.

[SwindonJambo]

The NHS and police have been far more protected than they have down south.

 

Add in schools and socail care, its not ideal, but with a decreased business and a debt that is getting bigger under the Tories, what you going to do.

 

Down south, the NHS, care and education system is collapsing as we speak.

 

The SNP have acted as a shield, but as in start trek the shields are failing.

 

If the Tories get a land slide, the full effect will be seen.

Of course the debt is getting bigger regardless of who is in power. For it not to have grown under the Tories, they would have to have reduced the annual deficit from ?160bn to zero the day they took office, something which, of course, no-one could possibly achieve. It's the old chestnut again - Debt v Deficit. How hard can it be to understand? You are correct that the Debt is still growing ,albeit more slowly as the Tories have reduced the Annual Deficit by 2/3 to around ?53bn. Labour had plans for big cuts too btw, had they won the 2010 election and they were only a little less sharp than the Tories.

 

You do realise that pure anti austerity which means a lack of cuts means borrowing even more money and growing the debt even more?

 

I'm against cuts too and have no love whatsoever for the Tories but we can only stop the cuts by increasing Taxes for everyone, which I think they should do, but being Tories they won't. I really don't think Corbin is the solution either as I think his business and financial plans are laughable.

 

I don't think the Tories will get anything like a landslide but they're certainly on for a comfortable win despite May-be's crap campaign.

[Bazzas right boot]

Th sad thing is, tonight the UK will elect a PM that:

 

Ignored police warnings and overseen cuts.

Already started to sell of the NHS in England

Voted against pay rises in the public sector, while giving themselves arond 7% a year.

has a uncosted manifesto

has no Brexit plan of any note

has openly said she  will scrap Human rights

ignores tax fraud at the highest level

Gives her Husbands company big contracts.

Sells weapons to the Saudi's

 

Has trebled the debt and seen a net increase in migrants, yet they are meant to be the party that even when they screw everything else could be trusted with this- nope. Actually spend less and still increased the debt, TBH that is an achievement in itself.

 

and my favourite, avoids debate, actually avoids debate, yet she will be "leading" the ******* country.

 

Once we elect her, my faith in logic and democracy will be questioned. Really will, plenty alternatives but we will choose this. it would  be funny if I never lived here.

[Jambo 4 Ever]

Any positive reasons to vote Tory?

[Toggie88]

I've decided that as this is a Westminster election I voted for the SNP as Calum McCaig is a decent MP and the best person to represent Scotland at Westminster.  Wife and son have done the same.

 

I know Calum personally. Very good guy and works his arse off. 

[Bazzas right boot]

Of course the debt is getting bigger regardless of who is in power. For it not to have grown under the Tories, they would have to have reduced the annual deficit from ?160bn to zero the day they took office, something which, of course, no-one could possibly achieve. It's the old chestnut again - Debt v Deficit. How hard can it be to understand? You are correct that the Debt is still growing ,albeit more slowly as the Tories have reduced the Annual Deficit by 2/3 to around ?53bn. Labour had plans for big cuts too btw, had they won the 2010 election and they were only a little less sharp than the Tories.

 

You do realise that pure anti austerity which means a lack of cuts means borrowing even more money and growing the debt even more?

 

I'm against cuts too and have no love whatsoever for the Tories but we can only stop the cuts by increasing Taxes for everyone, which I think they should do, but being Tories they won't. I really don't think Corbin is the solution either as I think his business and financial plans are laughable.

 

I don't think the Tories will get anything like a landslide but they're certainly on for a comfortable win despite May-be's crap campaign.

 

 

TBH, hold the companies that are avoiding Tax accountable, quite an easy fix. Its a shame that that is considered laughable. It should be what happens, no question.

 

Things like the Railways being subsidised and the companies  are making a profit, in some cases that money is going abroad  and re invested elsewhere.

 

Keep the money here and reinvest it ( rather than give it to shareholders or foreign companies), quite a simple plan. Don't see how it is laughable, what is laughable  that we are so brainwashed that that can't work.

 

His policies are quite common in places like Germany, Holland, Australia, Canada and to a lesser extent France and Spain.

They are not that radical, the press makes them out to be. I wonder why not difficult to put 2 and 2 together.

[Bazzas right boot]

Any positive reasons to vote Tory?

 

stop indey ref 2.....

[Space Mackerel]

So your now saying you're happy with a Tory win..no in fact want a tory win? Fishy the turncoat would have thought it.

Good article here.

 

http://www.ericjoyce.co.uk/2017/06/todays-vote-and-scottish-independence/

[SwindonJambo]

Any positive reasons to vote Tory?

Any positive reasons to vote for any of them? They're all shit. The whole bloody lot of them. I live in a place where a prize bull with a blue rosette would get in so I don't even know why I'm bothering my arse to go to the Polling Station. I still will though as I always do. I'll probably go for the innocuous Lib Dems. Normally Labour, but not if led by Corbin.

[The Natural Order]

Any positive reasons to vote Tory?

 

Yes, they're not IRA loving Trotskyites or badge wearing separatists.

[Bazzas right boot]

Good article here.

 

http://www.ericjoyce.co.uk/2017/06/todays-vote-and-scottish-independence/

 

 

I was discussing today while on polling duty, a Tory landslide and further drivel from thier party, along with a Brexit that looks like being a car crash, might push soft no's to the SNP and although we ( SNP) might lose a handfull of seats tonight, in the long run a continuation of the horrible lot might help independence. Soft No ( Labour and Lib dems) will realise the only out is a Yes vote for independence.

[The Natural Order]

I was discussing today while on polling duty, a Tory landslide and further drivel from thier party, along with a Brexit that looks like being a car crash, might push soft no's to the SNP and although we ( SNP) might lose a handfull of seats tonight, in the long run a continuation of the horrible lot might help independence. Soft No ( Labour and Lib dems) will realise the only out is a Yes vote for independence.

 

The fact is nobody in this whole country wants a massive Tory win more than Wee Nippy.

 

[Space Mackerel]

I was discussing today while on polling duty, a Tory landslide and further drivel from thier party, along with a Brexit that looks like being a car crash, might push soft no's to the SNP and although we ( SNP) might lose a handfull of seats tonight, in the long run a continuation of the horrible lot might help independence. Soft No ( Labour and Lib dems) will realise the only out is a Yes vote for independence.

There's going to be a hell of a wake up call to younger voters and posters on here who hadn't lived through Thatcher and co.

Im looking forward to their dawn of realisation.

[Gambo]

I think if every ballot paper had the option of 'None of the above' it would win a majority.

[SwindonJambo]

TBH, hold the companies that are avoiding Tax accountable, quite an easy fix. Its a shame that that is considered laughable. It should be what happens, no question.

 

Things like the Railways being subsidised and the companies  are making a profit, in some cases that money is going abroad  and re invested elsewhere.

 

Keep the money here and reinvest it ( rather than give it to shareholders or foreign companies), quite a simple plan. Don't see how it is laughable, what is laughable  that we are so brainwashed that that can't work.

 

His policies are quite common in places like Germany, Holland, Australia, Canada and to a lesser extent France and Spain.

They are not that radical, the press makes them out to be. I wonder why not difficult to put 2 and 2 together.

It would help and renationalising the railways is the one and only renationalisation I'd support . But it won't bring in anything close to the ?53bn we need to reduce the Annual Deficit to NIL. The first thing I would do is to stop higher rate tax payers reclaiming higher rate tax on Pension Contributions. It means that for every ?6,000 get put in the pot, they reclaim ?4,000 so a 66% immediate uplift. I'd make it a flat rate for all of say 25% and cap tax relief on contributions at say ?30,000. At present, anyone earning between ?85,000 and ?150,000 can reclaim ?16,000. Tax relief on pension contributions costs the Treasury ?35bn a year.

 

George Osborne had plans to tackle the issue in the budget last year but he shit the bed and backed down because of the impending Brexit vote. With Brexit lost, they have nothing to lose and so it will be looked at again at some point. May will probably fire Hammond as Chancellor and replace him with Amber Rudd after the election so we'll see what happens then.

[Bazzas right boot]

The fact is nobody in this whole country wants a massive Tory win more than Wee Nippy.

 

 

 

You soundlike a pleasent chap.

 

I think she would prefer a Labour coaltion.  But, yes if the Tories get a massive win, thier could be an upside if you want Scotland to  be a country.

 

I'd rather a labour win, tho. The tories are horrible *******s  that are ruining pretty much everything. I also  think she is anything but strong and stable, my 18 year old cat is more strong and stable.

 

As a side note, I never minded David Cameron that much, although I think Clegg kept him more to  the centre.

 

May is a terrible leader.

[Bazzas right boot]

There's going to be a hell of a wake up call to younger voters and posters on here who hadn't lived through Thatcher and co.

Im looking forward to their dawn of realisation.

 

 

Yip, for Scotland a Tory goverment for the next 5/10 years will help the YES vote, Ironically, if Labour where in power, there would likley be less call for it. Even I'd care less.

 

Thankfully, who  ever is in power I am not really effected, its just sad to see the decimation of everything positive from thing like bans on fox hunting through to human rights to the unknown road of where a broken up Europe will take us ( although a history book can tell you how that ends).

 

Exciting if nothing else.

[Rudy T]

Good article here.

 

http://www.ericjoyce.co.uk/2017/06/todays-vote-and-scottish-independence/

Good? It's just whataboutery.

 

A hung parliament is the only outcome you should be happy with, the SNP could well be the power brokers if that happens and get indyref2 sooner than even they'd hoped.

 

The Torys will ignore Sturgeon until the Holyrood elections which can now happen when it was originally scheduled for as there won't be a GE to get in the way, however I think they'll leave it as 2021. Indyref2 could then get the green light for 2023. By then who knows what state the country will be in post Brexit!

[Dawnrazor]

There's going to be a hell of a wake up call to younger voters and posters on here who hadn't lived through Thatcher and co.

Im looking forward to their dawn of realisation.

Yep, the Labour years in the 70's were just delightful, 3 day week, strikes, unions running the country, mental inflation, dead bodies piling up in Hospitals, rubbish piled up in the street, aye, ****in peachy.

[deesidejambo]

What'll be will be.

 

I'm actually hoping for a Tory landslide. That'll make Independence inevitable.

Eh?

 

ffs I changed to SNP after your advice and now you want the **** Tories to win?    Why didn't you tell me to vote Tory then ya div?

[Victorian]

I think the main concern regarding May's likely strategy in the Brexit negotiations is her absolutely certain position on no deal > bad deal, but even worse that her position will be self validated by her election win. She'll view no deal > bad deal as some kind of justified outcome based on having a fresh mandate and her own ego as the bloody difficult woman. She's known to be averse to any compromise already... and certainly known as a rank ****-up merchant.

 

So who'll take the resultant boot in the baws post-negotiations, mid-economic turmoil?

 

That'll be the poor and working JAMs then.

[Space Mackerel]

Yep, the Labour years in the 70's were just delightful, 3 day week, strikes, unions running the country, mental inflation, dead bodies piling up in Hospitals, rubbish piled up in the street, aye, ****** peachy.

Oh well, if Corbyn is anything like them then the UK is goosed either way.

 

It's a bit of a Hobsons Choice.

[Space Mackerel]

Eh?

 

ffs I changed to SNP after your advice and now you want the **** Tories to win? Why didn't you tell me to vote Tory then ya div?

[emoji23]

 

Think of the long term strategy

[Bazzas right boot]

Yep, the Labour years in the 70's were just delightful, 3 day week, strikes, unions running the country, mental inflation, dead bodies piling up in Hospitals, rubbish piled up in the street, aye, ****** peachy.

 

Both governments had 5 years each in the 70's

 

Don't let that stop you blaming Labour for the entire decade , tho.

 

Been a tory thing this campaign, just avoid almost every fact, repeat a slogan and personally attack folk, but at all costs don't actually discuss your own policies, just slag of everything else, no matter how irrelevant, or in some cases false they are.

 

They'll still win as well, tho.

[deesidejambo]

[emoji23]

 

Think of the long term strategy

Eh?

 

Why have you been telling everyone to vote SNP then if we should have been voting Tory?

 

My missus voted SNP on your advice and now she wants to kick your pus in.  

[Space Mackerel]

Eh?

 

Why have you been telling everyone to vote SNP then if we should have been voting Tory?

 

My missus voted SNP on your advice and now she wants to kick your pus in.

Not as much as you when she finds out you've been getting gammys of the wee bird next door. :-/

[deesidejambo]

Not as much as you when she finds out you've been getting gammys of the wee bird next door. :-/

 

Well I suppose at least I got a gam.     And I got mine before she did the other neighbours.   

[John Findlay]

Eh?

 

Why have you been telling everyone to vote SNP then if we should have been voting Tory?

 

My missus voted SNP on your advice and now she wants to kick your pus in.

The main contributors to the Labour Party are the trade unions. Therefore he who pays the piper calls the tune. Before you reply business is the largest contributor to the Conservative and Unionist party and again he who pays the piper calls the tune. Hobson's choice indeed.

[Toxteth O'Grady]

Yep, the Labour years in the 70's were just delightful, 3 day week, strikes, unions running the country, mental inflation, dead bodies piling up in Hospitals, rubbish piled up in the street, aye, ****** peachy.

. I'm sure the 3 day week was Ted Hearhs Tory Government

[Dawnrazor]

. I'm sure the 3 day week was Ted Hearhs Tory Government

Not as I remember.

[John Findlay]

. I'm sure the 3 day week was Ted Hearhs Tory Government

Three day week was under Heath. Heath crapped it from Scargill and the NUM.

Thatcher got payback in 1984.

1976-1979 was strike after strike under Labour government of James Callaghan. Culminating in the winter of discontent of 78/79.

[Boab]

Not as I remember.

 

Well you couldn't have been around.

 

It was.

[Dawnrazor]

Well you couldn't have been around.

 

It was.

I wish I wasn't, I still remember my dad on 3 days under Labour.

[Boab]

I wish I wasn't, I still remember my dad on 3 days under Labour.

 

 

Nobody came out of that unscathed.

 

Just correcting something you were unsure of.

[Victorian]

Those times were from the dark ages of industrial relations. Nobody covered themselves in glory. Completely irrelevant today.

 

Any prospective modern day version of socialism will not resemble the 70s and 80s. Union power is dead as a doornail.

[Dawnrazor]

Union power is dead as a doornail.

?

[Victorian]

?

Yes?

[Boab]

Those times were from the dark ages of industrial relations. Nobody covered themselves in glory. Completely irrelevant today.

 

Any prospective modern day version of socialism will not resemble the 70s and 80s. Union power is dead as a doornail.

 

I would agree that a government under Corbyn would be radically different from anything back then. Completely different now.

 

Unions are as vital now as then mind ! 

[Dawnrazor]

Yes?

If Labour win do think the Unions will have no power?

[Victorian]

I would agree that a government under Corbyn would be radically different from anything back then. Completely different now.

 

Unions are as vital now as then mind !

They are important but the power they had is history.

[Boab]

They are important but the power they had is history.

 

I agree. A working relationship is all i've ever wanted between union and government.

[Victorian]

If Labour win do think the Unions will have no power?

The power that unions have is a pale shadow of what they had back then. People don't want a return to that level of union power. I as a trade unionist included.

[Victorian]

I agree. A working relationship is all i've ever wanted between union and government.

Yep. Even at a local level, a decent working partnership between unions and official side is what works. Confrontation and disruption does not.

[Dawnrazor]

The power that unions have is a pale shadow of what they had back then. People don't want a return to that level of union power. I as a trade unionist included.

I hope you're right, as a trade union member too, I hope you're right, I think you're wrong mind, I think Corbyn will be pulled this way and that by McClusky and co'.

[luckydug]

My heart bleeds for you.

 

No, wait, actually it bleeds for those being sanctioned and penalised for being poor, kids going to school hungry, cut to the core public services, pensioners with already miserly pensions compared to most of Europe being hammered, dementia taxes, the NHS doctors and nurses struggling in the face of pay freezes and systematic, stealth privatisation...

 

Still, all that has done it's job and really paid off that national debt paid for tax concessions for corporations and the rich.

 

But she's "strong and stable" and the fact she can't debate hasn't remotely worried me that she can't cope with 27 tough negotiators at all. And, well, she's bringing back all the stuff the toffs and imperialists love, class division, grammar schools, ripping animals to shreds for kicks, homophobia, censorship, ripping up the ECHR, selling arms to the known biggest exporters and funders of terrorism...

 

But, hey, we are far more secure now thanks to her 7 years as Home Secretary and stint as PM. Telling the Police Chief to shut his hole when he pointed out the security ramifications of shedding thousands of Police jobs hasn't come back to bite people, at all.

 

I've not hated all tory governments, some have been relatively stable and progressive even if I didn't vote for them. This ukip aping right-wing monstrosity is an absolute hateful shambles, on any metric you choose to measure them.

 

No doubt her vote, thanks in part to the non tax dom billionaire owned papers, and the bbc championing the party that will keep the license fee secure, and the fact that the tory vote is usually under-represented in polls, will be far better than it ever deserves to be.

 

So those of you who vote to protect a few extra quid in your pocket, don't pretend to utter any sympathies as food bank use rises and pensioners turn blue in the depths of winter because they can't afford to heat their homes.

 

That's on you.

 

 

 

 

I think that just about covers it.

Except to say why are Unionist parties so against an Indy ref 2 when all the indications are NO would win easily ?

Is it because it gives Ruth Davidson a chance to wrap herself up in the UNION RAG and avoid any real political debate about real issues ?