andyroo Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 Right, the only way to win the league is by playing "attractive" football. Let's ask Mourinho, Klopp, and Simeone about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busby8 Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 You might have blind faith, but AB and CL have faith, and that's the difference Ok, let's not call it Blind faith. How about faith without foundation , ( and based on what we have had to endure, I'm calling that now ). Let's see how long it takes AB and CL to reach the same conclusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siegementality Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 Ok, let's not call it Blind faith. How about faith without foundation , ( and based on what we have had to endure, I'm calling that now ). Let's see how long it takes AB and CL to reach the same conclusion. I get what you are trying to say but I don't think it's that either. AB and CL see Cathro at work on a daily basis. They will be far more aware of his - and let's not forget McPhee - strategy for moving the club forward. Remember when Neilson was asked to attend a board meeting - about a week and a half before he moved on - to explain the direction he was taking the team in. Well I would be confident that Cathro has had to do the same. Talking of confidence - or the lack thereof - that's probably the best way to describe how a lot of the support feel about Cathro. There are too many good football people - including Berra in his interview - saying too many good things about Cathro for his ability to be without foundation. He must have something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hungry hippo Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 I voted Cathro out and I'm far from convinced he has the motivational skills required but it looks like he's staying for now so we might as well back him. If results continue to be bad next season then he'll need to go asap but if the decision has been made (and it appears that way) then I don't see much benefit in bickering amongst ourselves all summer. Cathro can have no excuses next season. He's already been backed by the board by signing Berra and I'm sure there will be plenty of signings to follow (despite what he said about needing four new players) given the amount that will leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busby8 Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 I get what you are trying to say but I don't think it's that either. AB and CL see Cathro at work on a daily basis. They will be far more aware of his - and let's not forget McPhee - strategy for moving the club forward. Remember when Neilson was asked to attend a board meeting - about a week and a half before he moved on - to explain the direction he was taking the team in. Well I would be confident that Cathro has had to do the same. Talking of confidence - or the lack thereof - that's probably the best way to describe how a lot of the support feel about Cathro. There are too many good football people - including Berra in his interview - saying too many good things about Cathro for his ability to be without foundation. He must have something. If he has, he's hiding it from the rest of us. I personally have no faith in the guy. He hasn't for me, demonstrated any redeeming qualities to make me confident that he won't have our next batch of recruits running around aimlessly either, irrespective of how talented they actually are. As a wee aside,......I'm pretty sure the Bookies will have him at the shortest odds to be the first managerial casualty next season. And it's not often they are wrong. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
socrates82 Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 Well he's just made one of our highest profile signings for some time so that could sway opinion. Or was that Levein? Who am I supposed to hate or give credit to? I forget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
socrates82 Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 You might have blind faith, but AB and CL have faith, and that's the difference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watt-Zeefuik Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 Responding to multiple posters, I think the difference between Cathro and Neilson (who I think was a reasonably forward-thinking manager in his own right) is the level of fluidity that Cathro wants in the attack. I think this is not easy to play and when attackers get confused or frustrated it turns to shite really fast. I think Neilson wanted passing, possession football at all times but wanted to sit and watch film for hours on end and then draw up a formation he thought would give opposing sides trouble, then get the players to roughly stay in those formations. Having the players switching out for each other ("total football" is overused to death but that's the general idea) on the fly is much harder to get right. It may be a bridge too far for Scottish football. But that's clearly what Cathro wants. *IF* he can get it to work regularly, it's a game-changer for Hearts. I'm not remotely convinced he can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussieh Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 Responding to multiple posters, I think the difference between Cathro and Neilson (who I think was a reasonably forward-thinking manager in his own right) is the level of fluidity that Cathro wants in the attack. I think this is not easy to play and when attackers get confused or frustrated it turns to shite really fast. I think Neilson wanted passing, possession football at all times but wanted to sit and watch film for hours on end and then draw up a formation he thought would give opposing sides trouble, then get the players to roughly stay in those formations. Having the players switching out for each other ("total football" is overused to death but that's the general idea) on the fly is much harder to get right. It may be a bridge too far for Scottish football. But that's clearly what Cathro wants. *IF* he can get it to work regularly, it's a game-changer for Hearts. I'm not remotely convinced he can. It's has a very rare success rate. Brazil 70, Ajax 70s and Barcelona. It usually comes unstuck when teams with an organised defence with a powerful attack come calling. Brazil v Italy WC82. But yes it would be real nice to watch us play total football, but I think he underestimated Scottish football, personally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain America Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 I voted Cathro out and I'm far from convinced he has the motivational skills required but it looks like he's staying for now so we might as well back him. If results continue to be bad next season then he'll need to go asap but if the decision has been made (and it appears that way) then I don't see much benefit in bickering amongst ourselves all summer. Cathro can have no excuses next season. He's already been backed by the board by signing Berra and I'm sure there will be plenty of signings to follow (despite what he said about needing four new players) given the amount that will leave. This is where I am at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitch41 Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 ? There was a 5 pager on here touting Cathro when he was in Spain. Somewhat ironically (I guess) I was firmly against it, as I felt he was being overhyped and had achieved nothing at that point. 2 years later he'd moved to Newcastle and it probably was time for him to consider an Head Coach role. Ideally it would've been now he'd be coming in, rather than mid-season. I have an inkling that Robbie would've left this week if he hadn't jumped when MK Dons came calling... I suspect Levein was minded to bring in Cathro now. So let's just treat it as a clean slate for everyone? If indeed the last 6 months has been Cathro's fault, we'll know by October/November...By then he'll have had the experience of the last 6mths, plus a summer window and a proper pre-season. We weren't going to win the SPL this season anyway so let's just all get behind the club again? Levein and Cathro must surely understand that this summer is vital for both of them? If I have to listen to "I told you so's" in November so be it...Better to have tried and failed than to just be a quitter, like the guys who called for his head in January... No way can Cathro get a clean slate because the last 6 months have shown him to lack any ability to motivate players. Oh certain players go publuc and tell us he a great coach/trainer but that's no good if the players got out and play like wimps. It has sickened the fans with dull, unimaginative, lackluster performances which tells everybody getting players to put in some effort is beyond him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bring Back Paulo Sergio Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 Well he's just made one of our highest profile signings for some time so that could sway opinion. Or was that Levein? Who am I supposed to hate or give credit to? I forget. You're right. Cathro was the ultimate factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debut 4 Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 ? There was a 5 pager on here touting Cathro when he was in Spain. Somewhat ironically (I guess) I was firmly against it, as I felt he was being overhyped and had achieved nothing at that point. 2 years later he'd moved to Newcastle and it probably was time for him to consider an Head Coach role. Ideally it would've been now he'd be coming in, rather than mid-season. I have an inkling that Robbie would've left this week if he hadn't jumped when MK Dons came calling... I suspect Levein was minded to bring in Cathro now. So let's just treat it as a clean slate for everyone? If indeed the last 6 months has been Cathro's fault, we'll know by October/November...By then he'll have had the experience of the last 6mths, plus a summer window and a proper pre-season. We weren't going to win the SPL this season anyway so let's just all get behind the club again? Levein and Cathro must surely understand that this summer is vital for both of them? If I have to listen to "I told you so's" in November so be it...Better to have tried and failed than to just be a quitter, like the guys who called for his head in January... How does wanting somebody out make you a quitter? Never read so much sheight. Should I accuse those of wanting to keep Cathro, given the evidence so far, of being losers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spellczech Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 How does wanting somebody out make you a quitter? Never read so much sheight. Should I accuse those of wanting to keep Cathro, given the evidence so far, of being losers? Celebrate a guy's appointment in December. Start calling for his sacking in January. That's not really the sort of person that has backbone is it? I'm not convinced you are able to read properly, certainly comprehension-wise.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debut 4 Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 Celebrate a guy's appointment in December. Start calling for his sacking in January. That's not really the sort of person that has backbone is it? I'm not convinced you are able to read properly, certainly comprehension-wise.. oh sorry, I forgot you're JKBs football intellect. Apologies. So you thought after a 4-0 win in late December followed by a 1-0 defeat to Aberdeen going into January ,swathes of Hearts fans wanted IC out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the big show Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 Celebrate a guy's appointment in December. Start calling for his sacking in January. That's not really the sort of person that has backbone is it? I'm not convinced you are able to read properly, certainly comprehension-wise.. So the fans are showing a bit of back bone voicing what they wan't and showing they wan't a manager with a bit of backbone . Can you honestly say Cathro has shown any or the players he has shown any for him and management ? What is to say new players is not enough ? That is why so many have had enough and seen enough .. They can not trust this guy or management and quite obviously don't wan't it getting any worse .. What do people expect to say when it is people's hard earned cash they are gambling with on the hope they can get it right when there has not been the slightest sign of it so far ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
socrates82 Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 oh sorry, I forgot you're JKBs football intellect. Apologies. So you thought after a 4-0 win in late December followed by a 1-0 defeat to Aberdeen going into January ,swathes of Hearts fans wanted IC out? Online at least, Cathro had the shortest "honeymoon period" of any hearts manager I can remember (by that I mean no honeymoon period at all). He was even getting pelters in the media before he'd sat in the dugout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deejtee Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 oh sorry, I forgot you're JKBs football intellect. Apologies. So you thought after a 4-0 win in late December followed by a 1-0 defeat to Aberdeen going into January ,swathes of Hearts fans wanted IC out? In his own mind!! Not worth dialogue with this type who looks to insult to get an argument and has a high opinion of himself, with no proof to back it up...arguably a bit like our head coach Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toxteth O'Grady Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 Apparently building a team of leaders now. He better hope he can lead them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
socrates82 Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 In terms of Cathro turning things around, I don't think any of us have been convinced he can cut it as a successful manager for us but on his side is that he does seem smart enough to know when he's doing something wrong and what he needs to do to change it, and young enough not to have got too set in his ways. Surrounding himself with good experienced pros like Berra and Hughes is a good sign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toxteth O'Grady Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 In terms of Cathro turning things around, I don't think any of us have been convinced he can cut it as a successful manager for us but on his side is that he does seem smart enough to know when he's doing something wrong and what he needs to do to change it, and young enough not to have got too set in his ways. Surrounding himself with good experienced pros like Berra and Hughes is a good sign. it is probably a good sign but he might get dominated by stronger characters with more experience of the game. As a rookie he is bound to make tactical mistakes and wrong decisions during a game that an experienced manager probably wouldn't make so I can't understand why he was chosen over someone with a management track record Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
socrates82 Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 it is probably a good sign but he might get dominated by stronger characters with more experience of the game. As a rookie he is bound to make tactical mistakes and wrong decisions during a game that an experienced manager probably wouldn't make so I can't understand why he was chosen over someone with a management track record If hiring good coaches with no management track record is good enough for Bundesliga clubs I don't think it's too much of a stretch to think it could work for us. Same with young players they'll make mistakes, although I suppose you can't just drop or rest a manager for a while. Levein's job is to mentor him but if he's going to get stick for passing on advice I don't know how he's supposed to do that with our accusations of interfering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toxteth O'Grady Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 If hiring good coaches with no management track record is good enough for Bundesliga clubs I don't think it's too much of a stretch to think it could work for us. It is a risk we didn't need to take and only Levein can explain why. So far he has been in hiding Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
socrates82 Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 It is a risk we didn't need to take and only Levein can explain why. So far he has been in hiding To be fair he explained when he took over. Young coaches in a DoF model. Worked with Neilson/. Hasn't with Cathro so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirkierobroy Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 Hope You folks will forgive me for butting in - Kirkintilloch Rob Roy supporter here, long time lurking member of HMFCKickback because of the quality of the discussion on various Scottish Fitba issues. Saw this pic as a poster on the bus today. Immediately thought, so he's been punted and changed career, then... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bull's-eye Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 Hope You folks will forgive me for butting in - Kirkintilloch Rob Roy supporter here, long time lurking member of HMFCKickback because of the quality of the discussion on various Scottish Fitba issues. Saw this pic as a poster on the bus today. Immediately thought, so he's been punted and changed career, then... Rib buster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
151 Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 Rib buster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussieh Posted May 25, 2017 Share Posted May 25, 2017 You Cannae win on here.There's a reason folk don't post for ages. Once you do you're Fecked. Eternal kickbackary! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
151 Posted May 25, 2017 Share Posted May 25, 2017 You Cannae win on here. There's a reason folk don't post for ages. Once you do you're Fecked. Eternal kickbackary! Haha it was pretty savage wasn't it. Funny though. (not the original post i may add ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bauld willie Posted May 25, 2017 Share Posted May 25, 2017 Well he's just made one of our highest profile signings for some time so that could sway opinion. Or was that Levein? Who am I supposed to hate or give credit to? I forget. You mean someone who wanted to come home to Edinburgh and who stated he would only come back to Hearts. Berra was an absolute gift to this club and sod all to do with Cathro. This nearly happened last year as Berra wasn't happy away from his family. Please stop making up all this pro Cathro stuff. Berra could be an exceptional signing but it is all future signings that will dictate the success of lack thereof for Cathro and Levein. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bauld willie Posted May 25, 2017 Share Posted May 25, 2017 To be fair he explained when he took over. Young coaches in a DoF model. Worked with Neilson/. Hasn't with Cathro so far. Cathro has had his honeymoon period and made an absolute mess of it, alienating a huge percentage of our support in the process. You do not get another one. There will be no leeway whatsoever from dissolutioned supporters and anything other than Burley type start is guaranteed to have people on his back right from the off. Talking to some friends on this subject, one actually stated, that he hoped for us to get pumped out the League Cup right at the beginning so Cathro would be sacked immediately and not risk the crucial league season. What the point of a manager who does not have the backing of our support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomaso Posted May 25, 2017 Share Posted May 25, 2017 It is a risk we didn't need to take and only Levein can explain why. So far he has been in hiding Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nookie Bear Posted May 25, 2017 Share Posted May 25, 2017 Cathro has had his honeymoon period and made an absolute mess of it, alienating a huge percentage of our support in the process. You do not get another one. There will be no leeway whatsoever from dissolutioned supporters and anything other than Burley type start is guaranteed to have people on his back right from the off. Talking to some friends on this subject, one actually stated, that he hoped for us to get pumped out the League Cup right at the beginning so Cathro would be sacked immediately and not risk the crucial league season. What the point of a manager who does not have the backing of our support. I'm not exaggerating when I say the first 45 minutes of the first game could define his career at Hearts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toxteth O'Grady Posted May 25, 2017 Share Posted May 25, 2017 To be fair he explained when he took over. Young coaches in a DoF model. Worked with Neilson/. Hasn't with Cathro so far. Was that when he said it would bring stability by smooth transition when the young head coach moved on? That's worked well!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpship Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 Is it wrong to change ur mind and get behind Cathro for the coming season... Even if its just because you know he's not going anywhere and its better to back the management and players for new season than to start off on a negative? Come on Cathro, you can turn it around.. (Cough) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deejtee Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 Is it wrong to change ur mind and get behind Cathro for the coming season... Even if its just because you know he's not going anywhere and its better to back the management and players for new season than to start off on a negative? Come on Cathro, you can turn it around.. (Cough) Cathro can get folk behind him one way only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzas right boot Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 Is it wrong to change ur mind and get behind Cathro for the coming season... Even if its just because you know he's not going anywhere and its better to back the management and players for new season than to start off on a negative? Come on Cathro, you can turn it around.. (Cough) Either that or be a hater from the off! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deejtee Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 Either that or be a hater from the off! Yawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucille's Thirsty Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 Right, the only way to win the league is by playing "attractive" football. Let's ask Mourinho, Klopp, and Simeone about that. Klopp?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitch41 Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 Klopp?? Yes Klopp what's the matter with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucille's Thirsty Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 Klopp?? Yes Klopp what's the matter with that. Klopp plays an attractive type of football IMO. Simeone and Mourinho I agree with but Klopp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HMFC86 Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 Cathro can get folk behind him one way only.Genuine question, it is blatantly clear that Cathro is going to be here for atleast the first round of fixtures next season. Now whether people agree with that or not has been discussed in great detail. However on the basis he is going to be here, would it not be better to get behind him and see how the first few games at least go? Surely the more positivity about the place as the season kicks off, the better impact it's going to have on the players? If there isn't an improvement I suspect his position will become untenable and he will go. But if it's better then everyone is sureky happy. I think going into the season negatively doesn't help the players, Cathro or more importantly the supporters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watt-Zeefuik Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 It's has a very rare success rate. Brazil 70, Ajax 70s and Barcelona. It usually comes unstuck when teams with an organised defence with a powerful attack come calling. Brazil v Italy WC82. But yes it would be real nice to watch us play total football, but I think he underestimated Scottish football, personally. I think this is very likely true, given that in my experience almost everyone underestimates Scottish football, including many in Scotland. It's almost as many as overestimate English football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watt-Zeefuik Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 Genuine question, it is blatantly clear that Cathro is going to be here for atleast the first round of fixtures next season. Now whether people agree with that or not has been discussed in great detail. However on the basis he is going to be here, would it not be better to get behind him and see how the first few games at least go? Surely the more positivity about the place as the season kicks off, the better impact it's going to have on the players? If there isn't an improvement I suspect his position will become untenable and he will go. But if it's better then everyone is sureky happy. I think going into the season negatively doesn't help the players, Cathro or more importantly the supporters. I'm trying to get there myself but with the season not even a week over yet and us having one of the worst six months spells in the history of the club, it's hardly outrageous for folk to still be raging about it a bit. Yes, let's be positive, but again, let's not minimize how awful we were under Cathro up until now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HMFC86 Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 I'm trying to get there myself but with the season not even a week over yet and us having one of the worst six months spells in the history of the club, it's hardly outrageous for folk to still be raging about it a bit. Yes, let's be positive, but again, let's not minimize how awful we were under Cathro up until now. I completely get why folk feel that way, I wasn't having a go, just think it would be more likely to have a positive impact. Maybe another couple of signings will get folk back on board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deejtee Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 I completely get why folk feel that way, I wasn't having a go, just think it would be more likely to have a positive impact. Maybe another couple of signings will get folk back on board. Cathy and Levein will know, along with all of Scottish football, that things need to be much better to get the fans onside. There is no unconditional support for any manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deejtee Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 Cathy and Levein will know, along with all of Scottish football, that things need to be much better to get the fans onside. There is no unconditional support for any manager..... .............and that includes Cathro as well as Cathy!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HMFC86 Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 .............and that includes Cathro as well as Cathy!!!! Tbf Cathy has done absolutely nothing wrong ; ) I'm not saying they should get unconditional support. Point is more we should get right behind it atm, as obvious there isn't an immediate change afoot. I don't think there is much to be gained from anything else than getting behind him from the start of the season, at least till Dundee go there up anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussieh Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 Haha it was pretty savage wasn't it. Funny though. (not the original post i may add ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingantti1874 Posted May 30, 2017 Share Posted May 30, 2017 So the boy didn't understand that you may have to defend cross balls and high balls in Scotland. what an absolutely unbelievable interview that was from levein.. Out of his depth.. Both of them need to go.. An absolute cluster**** of an appointment and levein should carry the can for it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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