Iain Cathro ongoing Poll and discussion Thread

[siegementality]

The reality of the situation is that he is likely to be given a large chunk of the clubs money to bring 5/6 players in. We will sack him before xmas and his replacement will be left with his players. The season will turn into trying to chsnge our dire start around and avoid a relegation battle. Another write off next seson

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And you began seeing into the future when exactly?

[kingantti1874]

And you began seeing into the future when exactly?

It's based on the evidence of our managers capabilities.

[deejtee]

Thought the smilie at the end would have indicated the tongue-in-cheek nature of my response.  Obviously not.  Never mind.  Rub some cream on that sensitive spot.

Fair enough although the use of the name Paul implies a lack of belief. Especially when saying you are prepared to listen to other views and don't like silly names. Anyway we have been a soft touch all the time since Cathro took over and have been hassled out of things and responded poorly to losing a goal. We then get told that they have learnt and these things won't happen again...then they do. Anyway all in the hands of Mrs Budge but the players we have signed were not all crap and doubtless the ones we sign will not all be great so we have to hope some lessons have genuinely been learnt.

[Haken]

Fair enough although the use of the name Paul implies a lack of belief. Especially when saying you are prepared to listen to other views and don't like silly names. Anyway we have been a soft touch all the time since Cathro took over and have been hassled out of things and responded poorly to losing a goal. We then get told that they have learnt and these things won't happen again...then they do. Anyway all in the hands of Mrs Budge but the players we have signed were not all crap and doubtless the ones we sign will not all be great so we have to hope some lessons have genuinely been learnt.

Cool.  I did accept your view, as I said.  I thought it was quite funny the idea of Paul Hartly posting on JKB.

 

We were a soft touch before Cathro came along.  As soon as teams realised that all they needed to do was push up and stop us playing out from the back, we resorted to punting the ball long.  That happened when Robbie was here as much as it does now with Cathro.

[peebles jambo]

Not at all.I do think he deserves a chance,if he doesnt turn it around then he goes...Simples

But how long will we have to wait to see if he has improved, by the time we realise nothing has changed it'll be too late,

unless of course that they ( the Jambos) do change and  have improved under his leadership

[HMFC86]

Gonna be a lonnnnggggg summer!

[deejtee]

Gonna be a lonnnnggggg summer!

Thank god!

[BRING_BACK_MO_BERTHA]

Given the facts since he was appointed, I just cannot fathom why anyone would positively vote for Cathro to stay. Don't get me wrong, in an ideal world you want a manager, especially in his first job, to be given time and at least a pre-season to get things right. But that hasn't happened to Hearts managers in the past (Frail, Sandy Clark, Locke, Mcglynn) all of whom had better records and managed under more unstable circumstances. So why should Cathro, with no Hearts background at all be given special status? Going through the motions sums up Cathro's teams...and no fan wants to come to see that...regardless of end results

[Toxteth O'Grady]

There is a massive rebuilding job to be done on the squad now. Does anyone really think Cathro is the best man to do that?

[Benny Factor]

Given the facts since he was appointed, I just cannot fathom why anyone would positively vote for Cathro to stay. Don't get me wrong, in an ideal world you want a manager, especially in his first job, to be given time and at least a pre-season to get things right. But that hasn't happened to Hearts managers in the past (Frail, Sandy Clark, Locke, Mcglynn) all of whom had better records and managed under more unstable circumstances. So why should Cathro, with no Hearts background at all be given special status? Going through the motions sums up Cathro's teams...and no fan wants to come to see that...regardless of end results

Sandy Clark had a pre-season..... and still then spent 300k on Jim Weir......Jim feckin' Weir!

[kingantti1874]

And still the votes for him to stay go up.. every time we get pumped it goes up.. bet they all have hardly any posts as well..

[KingRudiSkacel51]

In cathro we trust

 

 

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[Bull's-eye]

And still the votes for him to stay go up.. every time we get pumped it goes up.. bet they all have hardly any posts as well..

I think people are changing votes just to annoy you.

[kingantti1874]

I think people are changing votes just to annoy you.

Well no because the go vote isn't changing.. new members voting stay.. wonder who they support.. speaking of which

[kingantti1874]

In cathro we trust

 

 

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This one for example, joins a few days ago, 6 posts and in Cathro he trusts.. even Cathro apologists don't come out with shit like this..

 

HOBO

[Bull's-eye]

Well no because the go vote isn't changing.. new members voting stay.. wonder who they support.. speaking of which

Maybe a lot of Hearts supporters don't want him to go, I certainly don't and there are plenty others on here much more vocal than me that seem to accept he needs time to get things right.

 

There probably is plenty of vermin stinking this place out at the moment but to suggest they are the only supporters of Cathro is just wrong whether you like it or not.

[kingantti1874]

Maybe a lot of Hearts supporters don't want him to go, I certainly don't and there are plenty others on here much more vocal than me that seem to accept he needs time to get things right.

 

There probably is plenty of vermin stinking this place out at the moment but to suggest they are the only supporters of Cathro is just wrong whether you like it or not.

You'll not find a post from me saying that.

[Bull's-eye]

You'll not find a post from me saying that.

That's why I said suggest.

[KingRudiSkacel51]

This one for example, joins a few days ago, 6 posts and in Cathro he trusts.. even Cathro apologists don't come out with shit like this..

 

HOBO

Can see what he's trying to do and a lot of the points we've dropped this season has been down to individual errors (Hamilton,noring,avlonitis,sowah) i truly believe with a few strong players in we can get 4th next season and build from there

 

 

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[Section Q]

In cathro we trust

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Nice try pal.

[KingRudiSkacel51]

Nice try pal.

If I keep telling myself it'll eventually be true lol

 

 

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[Section Q]

1/Don't make mistakes.

2/If you do, deal with them.

3/Admit you're wrong.

4/Time to move on.

5/Ann we need a manager.

6/clock's ticking.

[been here before]

7/Find the Cathro thread

8/Post there.

[JamboBornNBred]

1/Don't make mistakes.

2/If you do, deal with them.

3/Admit you're wrong.

4/Time to move on.

5/Ann we need a manager.

6/clock's ticking.

Enough of your tripe.......Ignore for you Sir Troll

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

Don't listen to wankers

[siegementality]

If ever there was a reason for only being allowed to start a certain amount of threads per month/year your pish threads are it.

[amadjambo]

Look at Cathro's performance when taking over a team in the top 4, and being able to make 9 signings.

 

Now compare that to Locke's performance with a youth team, no signings, and a 15 point deduction that took its toll mentally.

 

Locke was hounded out, since proven to be the correct decision, but people want to give Cathro time.

 

What a strange world we live in.

[Unknown user]

Look at Cathro's performance when taking over a team in the top 4, and being able to make 9 signings.

 

Now compare that to Locke's performance with a youth team, no signings, and a 15 point deduction that took its toll mentally.

 

Locke was hounded out, since proven to be the correct decision, but people want to give Cathro time.

 

What a strange world we live in.

No he wasn't, he got a full season then his contract wasn't renewed because he was shit. No one hounded Locke out, that's pure revisionism

[amadjambo]

No he wasn't, he got a full season then his contract wasn't renewed because he was shit. No one hounded Locke out, that's pure revisionism

No, there were many fans calling for him to go long before the end of the season. And many absolutely delighted when his contract wasn't renewed. But Cathro, with a worse record and much better circumstances, deserves more time.

 

We were right not to keep Locke on, I hope keeping Cathro on proves to be the correct decision.

[Tricks]

Get this charlatan out of our club. The guy is full of bs constantly talks of how things will get better and the performance will not be tolerated again, yet there has been no sogns of a response on the pitch. His constant attempts to intellectualise a shite performance and atrocious form get on my tits. The guy is a loser and his whole demeanour is spreading throughout the club and even the fanbase. Massively out of his depth and i hope it isnt too late before everyone realises this.

[Unknown user]

No, there were many fans calling for him to go long before the end of the season. And many absolutely delighted when his contract wasn't renewed. But Cathro, with a worse record and much better circumstances, deserves more time.

 

We were right not to keep Locke on, I hope keeping Cathro on proves to be the correct decision.

That doesn't mean he was hounded out

[Watt-Zeefuik]

Coupla things...

 

First, minimizing Hearts fans who legitimately want to give Cathro more time ignores piles of well-thought out responses given here by folk like Buffalo Bill and others. It's not Hibs voting that's keeping the poll like that FFS.

 

Second, that said, those Hearts fans who do think Cathro should get more time seem to say, "it's normal to give a manager more time." It's not normal for a manager to have one of the worst stretches of games in the entire history of the club.  Don't minimize how awful this has been.  It hasn't just been "a bit bad." It has been historically abysmal. Arguing for Cathro to stay requires more than the ordinary "gie'im some time" because we were extraordinarily terrible this season.

 

My vote is currently on "stay" although I'm waffling.  The argument that I can see, that I'm not fully convinced of, is simply that what Cathro is trying to do with the club is so transformative and out of line with conventional SPFL practices that the growing pains of getting there mean we're going to be wretched for a period.

 

Because Cathro is clearly getting more time from the management, I'm trying to buy this argument but it's difficult.  There are instances of sport teams of all sorts who had to go through a period of being outright awful to get to being excellent. (Best example I can think of is an American reference folk may not get, the movie Hoosiers.) Hopefully that's what happens here.  But most of the time when a manager knows what he's doing, there's improvement soon after he takes charge, regardless of the personnel. 

[Baldy61]

This one for example, joins a few days ago, 6 posts and in Cathro he trusts.. even Cathro apologists don't come out with shit like this..

HOBO

They are not even subtle now. This vote no longer worth a f %*\

[Jamhammer]

Coupla things...

 

First, minimizing Hearts fans who legitimately want to give Cathro more time ignores piles of well-thought out responses given here by folk like Buffalo Bill and others. It's not Hibs voting that's keeping the poll like that FFS.

 

Second, that said, those Hearts fans who do think Cathro should get more time seem to say, "it's normal to give a manager more time." It's not normal for a manager to have one of the worst stretches of games in the entire history of the club.  Don't minimize how awful this has been.  It hasn't just been "a bit bad." It has been historically abysmal. Arguing for Cathro to stay requires more than the ordinary "gie'im some time" because we were extraordinarily terrible this season.

 

My vote is currently on "stay" although I'm waffling.  The argument that I can see, that I'm not fully convinced of, is simply that what Cathro is trying to do with the club is so transformative and out of line with conventional SPFL practices that the growing pains of getting there mean we're going to be wretched for a period.

 

Because Cathro is clearly getting more time from the management, I'm trying to buy this argument but it's difficult.  There are instances of sport teams of all sorts who had to go through a period of being outright awful to get to being excellent. (Best example I can think of is an American reference folk may not get, the movie Hoosiers.) Hopefully that's what happens here.  But most of the time when a manager knows what he's doing, there's improvement soon after he takes charge, regardless of the personnel. 

Pretty much where I'm at. The usual bounce you get when a new manager is appointed kinda rests on the fact that the new guy is tried and tested at the level he's taking over at or, on occasion is a player the players have played with and respect. The players understand him and performances improve. I may be clutching at straws but I'm hoping that with better players and a pre season we will see more of the style Cathro has said he wants us to play.

Of those not wanting him sacked yet I'm willing to bet there are very few who are sure he can turn it around. I'm still in the really not sure he can category. Always the optimist though.

[Nookie Bear]

 

 

My vote is currently on "stay" although I'm waffling.  The argument that I can see, that I'm not fully convinced of, is simply that what Cathro is trying to do with the club is so transformative and out of line with conventional SPFL practices that the growing pains of getting there mean we're going to be wretched for a period.

 

 

 

What is Cathro doing that is so transformative and out of line with convention (apart from his career progression)?

[aussieh]

What is Cathro doing that is so transformative and out of line with convention (apart from his career progression)?

He's learning how not to manage. I'll expect a total transformation next season, with transfers and performances, from what he's learned.

 

I expect to win! If we don't, I'll expect him to go, and I'll also expect Craig to go too. This is his responsibility, either way.

[mac]

Ann, please buy out/pay off Craig and Cathro ASAP, if not sooner - I used to be a Happy Camper/Clapper, but that has been extinguished as soon as I found out that the perceived light at the end of the tunnel is actually an oncoming train      

[Thomaso]

Ann, please buy out/pay off Craig and Cathro ASAP, if not sooner - I used to be a Happy Camper/Clapper, but that has been extinguished as soon as I found out that the perceived light at the end of the tunnel is actually an oncoming train      

 

 

Any such "buy out" will not be cheap.   Levein gave Cathro a 3 year contract for reasons only known to himself - so we would have to stump up over 2 years wages.

 

As far Levein is concerned, he has built himself in with the bricks, not only as Director of Football but also full Board member - which I always thought was a step too far by Ann Budge.  Getting shot of Mr Levein will be expensive and acrimonious!

[jambogemz]

We have been absolutely shocking in the league this year. Not as bad as The Frail season but certainly on par with Paulo Sergio league campaign.

 

It's difficult to defend Ian Cathro but I'll get behind him as long as he's the head coach.

 

He's going nowhere at the moment and in my opinion will be under enormous pressure from within to improve dramatically. Let's try and get behind the guy and do all we can to help the club get off to a flyer.

[Bull's-eye]

I see this scenario.

 

Budge, Levein and Cathro want to win the league.

 

After the 1st training session Cathro tells Levein that the players we have haven't got a chance in hell of getting anywhere near a title. Levein agrees.

 

What is required is a completely new way forward, all parties know full well a January window is not the time to be recruiting but as the squad is thin and getting thinner stop gap loans are required, fortunately we have accrued enough points to keep the pressure off and we are able to try and tick over while planning for the next season.

 

All parties are in agreement with this strategy,

 

I 100% believe that Cathro is not here to challenge for titles but is here to win them. In order for that to happen we need a fresh approach, a different strategy. Pretty much everything needs to change because we as a club are serial losers with a let's finish 3rd mentality, I for one am sick off it. I couldn't give a Shit if it takes 10 years under Cathro to get it right, get relegated a few times for all I care. As long as at the end of it there is a league flag.

 

My 1st game was late 1970s and we have been fighting to get to the top table ever since only once ever getting close but as always we where run so horrifically bad we couldn't sustain it anyway. Vlad poured cash in and still couldn't get near.

 

Let's think outside the box, the tried and trusted old experienced manager has got us pretty much nowhere. I've seen us win 3 Cups and I doubt the last one will ever be topped, I want us to win the league and I'm more than prepared to go through the pain barrier to achieve it.

 

FTH

[i8hibsh]

We have been absolutely shocking in the league this year. Not as bad as The Frail season but certainly on par with Paulo Sergio league campaign.

 

It's difficult to defend Ian Cathro but I'll get behind him as long as he's the head coach.

 

He's going nowhere at the moment and in my opinion will be under enormous pressure from within to improve dramatically. Let's try and get behind the guy and do all we can to help the club get off to a flyer.

 

We were dire under Sergio.  If we never won 'that game' then he would go down as a really terrible appointment.  However, Paulo Sergio was able to pull something utterly fantastic and life changing out of the bag.  He had that in him.  Cathro doesn't even have a bag.

[Thomaso]

We have been absolutely shocking in the league this year. Not as bad as The Frail season but certainly on par with Paulo Sergio league campaign.

 

It's difficult to defend Ian Cathro but I'll get behind him as long as he's the head coach.

 

He's going nowhere at the moment and in my opinion will be under enormous pressure from within to improve dramatically. Let's try and get behind the guy and do all we can to help the club get off to a flyer.

 

 

If Cathro had won the Scottish Cup we would be cutting him massive slack for his league results!

[JJ1984]

I see this scenario.

 

Budge, Levein and Cathro want to win the league.

 

After the 1st training session Cathro tells Levein that the players we have haven't got a chance in hell of getting anywhere near a title. Levein agrees.

 

What is required is a completely new way forward, all parties know full well a January window is not the time to be recruiting but as the squad is thin and getting thinner stop gap loans are required, fortunately we have accrued enough points to keep the pressure off and we are able to try and tick over while planning for the next season.

 

All parties are in agreement with this strategy,

 

I 100% believe that Cathro is not here to challenge for titles but is here to win them. In order for that to happen we need a fresh approach, a different strategy. Pretty much everything needs to change because we as a club are serial losers with a let's finish 3rd mentality, I for one am sick off it. I couldn't give a Shit if it takes 10 years under Cathro to get it right, get relegated a few times for all I care. As long as at the end of it there is a league flag.

 

My 1st game was late 1970s and we have been fighting to get to the top table ever since only once ever getting close but as always we where run so horrifically bad we couldn't sustain it anyway. Vlad poured cash in and still couldn't get near.

 

Let's think outside the box, the tried and trusted old experienced manager has got us pretty much nowhere. I've seen us win 3 Cups and I doubt the last one will ever be topped, I want us to win the league and I'm more than prepared to go through the pain barrier to achieve it.

 

FTH

kookoo. 

[JJ1984]

If Cathro had won a Scottish Cup match we would be cutting him massive slack for his league results!

 

FTFY. 

[Cade]

Does anybody really think that he'll serve the full year next season?

 

Why waste time between now and then?

 

Get rid now, get a proper football manager in and start the rebuilding.

 

Wasting the entire summer and half of the next season on this shambolic lost cause will only result in thousands of empty seats and wreck the goodwill between the upper levels of managment and the fans.

[Thomaso]

I see this scenario.

 

Budge, Levein and Cathro want to win the league.

 

After the 1st training session Cathro tells Levein that the players we have haven't got a chance in hell of getting anywhere near a title. Levein agrees.

 

What is required is a completely new way forward, all parties know full well a January window is not the time to be recruiting but as the squad is thin and getting thinner stop gap loans are required, fortunately we have accrued enough points to keep the pressure off and we are able to try and tick over while planning for the next season.

 

All parties are in agreement with this strategy,

 

I 100% believe that Cathro is not here to challenge for titles but is here to win them. In order for that to happen we need a fresh approach, a different strategy. Pretty much everything needs to change because we as a club are serial losers with a let's finish 3rd mentality, I for one am sick off it. I couldn't give a Shit if it takes 10 years under Cathro to get it right, get relegated a few times for all I care. As long as at the end of it there is a league flag.

 

My 1st game was late 1970s and we have been fighting to get to the top table ever since only once ever getting close but as always we where run so horrifically bad we couldn't sustain it anyway. Vlad poured cash in and still couldn't get near.

 

Let's think outside the box, the tried and trusted old experienced manager has got us pretty much nowhere. I've seen us win 3 Cups and I doubt the last one will ever be topped, I want us to win the league and I'm more than prepared to go through the pain barrier to achieve it.

 

FTH

 

 

First game in 1970's - yet you seem to have forgotten 1985?

[Ibrahim Tall]

How is this campaign even being compared with Paulo Sergios?

Leaving out the cup win I was never his biggest fan but under him we were winning roughly 1 in 2, under Cathro we've got the worst record in the division and would have been relegated. That's despite being given the oppprtinity to sign whoever he wanted while Sergio had to work with what he had.

Ridiculous to even compare the two.

[Thomaso]

How is this campaign even being compared with Paulo Sergios?

Leaving out the cup win I was never his biggest fan but under him we were winning roughly 1 in 2, under Cathro we've got the worst record in the division and would have been relegated. That's despite being given the oppprtinity to sign whoever he wanted while Sergio had to work with what he had.

Ridiculous to even compare the two.

 

Totally ridiculous!!

 

Under Sergio we averaged 1.37 points per game - under Cathro it is 0.86 points per game!!

 

As a Manager Sergio had to motivate players who were not getting paid, and the whole of Scottish Football was slating us.  To win us the SC under these circumstances was a massive achievement.

 

Sergio was a class act, and everything that Cathro is not!!

[Bellion]

I see this scenario.

 

Budge, Levein and Cathro want to win the league.

 

After the 1st training session Cathro tells Levein that the players we have haven't got a chance in hell of getting anywhere near a title. Levein agrees.

 

What is required is a completely new way forward, all parties know full well a January window is not the time to be recruiting but as the squad is thin and getting thinner stop gap loans are required, fortunately we have accrued enough points to keep the pressure off and we are able to try and tick over while planning for the next season.

 

All parties are in agreement with this strategy,

 

I 100% believe that Cathro is not here to challenge for titles but is here to win them. In order for that to happen we need a fresh approach, a different strategy. Pretty much everything needs to change because we as a club are serial losers with a let's finish 3rd mentality, I for one am sick off it. I couldn't give a Shit if it takes 10 years under Cathro to get it right, get relegated a few times for all I care. As long as at the end of it there is a league flag.

 

My 1st game was late 1970s and we have been fighting to get to the top table ever since only once ever getting close but as always we where run so horrifically bad we couldn't sustain it anyway. Vlad poured cash in and still couldn't get near.

 

Let's think outside the box, the tried and trusted old experienced manager has got us pretty much nowhere. I've seen us win 3 Cups and I doubt the last one will ever be topped, I want us to win the league and I'm more than prepared to go through the pain barrier to achieve it.

 

FTH

Good post. I don't know if we literally want to win the league - given our situation that's a big ask - but I think we certainly want to be more ambitious and successful on a long-term basis. Whether it will work or not, I think everything we're working towards - sustainable ownership, a more cohesive strategy for how teams at all levels should play, improvements to the stadium etc - is designed to make us a lasting force, which means we won't define success by the odd cup run, or by finishing 3rd then being papped out of Europe in August or whatever.

 

Most decent-sized non-OF Scottish teams tend to go through a cycle where they're decent for a few years, finishing in the top 5 or so, then rank rotten for a few, then OK again. And I think we want to rise above that. And I am absolutely delighted that we do. 

 

We might not get there. I'm not at all convinced the current coaching staff can achieve what they want to. What's absolutely certain is that you can't rip things up and expect instant success. But based on where we were in January, we could afford to rip things up in the interests of the long-term game (bearing in mind that we didn't know we'd be drawn against Hibs in the Cup at that point).

 

If next season starts as the 2nd half of this one has gone - so that we actually end up in a relegation battle, once we've had a full summer window to pick the players we really want - I think we will have to accept that the risks involved in pursuing whatever long-term strategy Cathro has in mind are too great, he'll go, and rightly so. 

[tolcross lad]

Any such "buy out" will not be cheap.   Levein gave Cathro a 3 year contract for reasons only known to himself - so we would have to stump up over 2 years wages.

 

As far Levein is concerned, he has built himself in with the bricks, not only as Director of Football but also full Board member - which I always thought was a step too far by Ann Budge.  Getting shot of Mr Levein will be expensive and acrimonious!

 

Levein is out of control and the club is not able to rein him in.Bad decisions will continue and Levein will spin out his last well paid post in football till the bitter end.