Iain Cathro ongoing Poll and discussion Thread

[Buffalo Bill]

That's kinda the point I was getting at Bill - its not really possible to say 'i'll give him such and such number of games' or a specific time frame in order to turn things around.

 

You said if he lost the first 4, he'd need to win the next 6 - in reality its never going to be as straight cut as that.

 

What if he lost 5 then won 5?

What if he lost 4, won 5 and then drew the 6th?

 

Theres so many different permutations and circumstances that its just not possible to put timeframes or numbers of matches on it.

 

 

Mid-October is my own personal line in the sand. Others on here clearly think he should be gone already.

 

 

Ultimately, it comes down to what Ann and Craig think.

[May one-six]

I don't think you can compare the situation now with the 70s. I honestly don't think it will get to that stage. In the 1970s, Hearts were, according to John Fairgrieve, a 'closed shop'. Very little information came out of the club. It was unwelcoming, unambitious, lacking in direction and morale was at a low ebb. We were a complete shambles from top to bottom.

 

I don't think the Hearts of 2017 is anything like that now. Everything about Hearts is about building for success from the fantastic academy facilities, to the new stand and to having over 13,000 season ticket holders. We are building up a new-look team which suffered a horrendous result last night, but at least we seem to be bringing in the right kind of players. We just need to bring in more players similar to Berra and Lafferty if possible.

 

If results in the short term don't improve, then Cathro will be gone. Then we'll move on and bring in someone else.

 

But there's no danger we're going back to the 70s. Not a chance.

I admire your optimism BB. However, the facts on the field are stark. We have been close to the worst performing Premiership team since Cathro was appointed. He has not improved things in any way. There is no acknowledgement or recognition of this from the people in charge at the club. We fail to act now and Cathro continues to perform the way he has we will be bottom of the league. Once you are in a losing mindset it's difficult to change and after the end of August we won't be in a position to get in new players. The football side of the club at the moment reeks of complacency - that's what gets you relegated.   

[Buffalo Bill]

I admire your optimism BB. However, the facts on the field are stark. We have been close to the worst performing Premiership team since Cathro was appointed. He has not improved things in any way. There is no acknowledgement or recognition of this from the people in charge at the club. We fail to act now and Cathro continues to perform the way he has we will be bottom of the league. Once you are in a losing mindset it's difficult to change and after the end of August we won't be in a position to get in new players. The football side of the club at the moment reeks of complacency - that's what gets you relegated.   

 

I don't wish to be pedantic but if you're gauging this season's results then it's played 3 won 2. That 66.6% win ratio would get you quite far up the Premiership league table.

 

Last season was awful but I argued that the team needed gutting and he has done that to a degree this summer so far with solid signings such as Smith, Berra and Laffery. The problem is we seem to have stopped signing players and that's my big concern. We still need a goalkeeper and at least two midfielders and possibly another striker.

 

If we don't make it out of this League Cup group section then Cathro might well get his jotters but otherwise, I chose to see how he does this season with his own team before making a judgement.

 

...but the state of the club now is nowhere near to what it was in the grim 1970s.

 

.

[i8hibsh]

I also want to know what makes Cathro so special that at such a young age with no managerial experience and have never played the game professionally was given the hot seat at a club like Hearts. Can someone please tell me.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

I also want to know what makes Cathro so special that at such a young age with no managerial experience and have never played the game professionally was given the hot seat at a club like Hearts. Can someone please tell me.

Levein loves his coaching methods. That's about it.

[JamboJimmyB]

Cathro and Levein are similar in the way they operate a siege mentality against criticism. They are both capable of sustaining this for a indefinitely period of time as they have incredible misguided self belief. I also believe than Mrs Budge does not have the appetite to change anything as her reliance on Levein on football matters is crucial.

 

I have not been following the finances in detail but who is funding this circus. is some of the money being raised by the fans going to support the salaries and running costs of the club or just on the stadium ? 

[Boab]

Is circus the new buzz word on here ?

[ZeroHour]

Peterhead were the whipping boys for the likes of Brechin at the end of last season on their way to relegation to the bottom tier.  The Ulster Gazelle must be on a salary greater than the combined Peterhead wagebill..  Hard to imagine how this result isn't a sackable offence.  

[i8hibsh]

Levein loves his coaching methods. That's about it.

 

Maybe Levein could explain to the fans and (clearly) the players what exactly those coaching methods are.

 

[Billybuffjaw]

I don't wish to be pedantic but if you're gauging this season's results then it's played 3 won 2. That 66.6% win ratio would get you quite far up the Premiership league table.

 

Last season was awful but I argued that the team needed gutting and he has done that to a degree this summer so far with solid signings such as Smith, Berra and Laffery. The problem is we seem to have stopped signing players and that's my big concern. We still need a goalkeeper and at least two midfielders and possibly another striker.

 

If we don't make it out of this League Cup group section then Cathro might well get his jotters but otherwise, I chose to see how he does this season with his own team before making a judgement.

 

...but the state of the club now is nowhere near to what it was in the grim 1970s.

 

.

Horrendous result last night no doubt about that but win on Sat, which I'm sure we'll do and we win the group and go into the hat for the next round. It's good in a way to get it out our system before the League starts and no damage done in the long run.

 

That said he is running out of patience with most now.

[269miles]

I believe the players signed are good ones. Not performing to the high standards they are capable of is worrying.

 

Cathros real problem is he wants to be setting the opposition a puzzle but all he is achieving is a puzzle for his own players.

 

Ffs Cathro simplify and give us all a break rather than try to prove you are a football genius. Getting beat from Peterhead must tell you something about yourself

Reminds me of an old boss of mine who was Chinese. He always said , if things aren't working the way you planned or expected to "understand then be understood".

 

Cathro can do neither. 

[Coco]

Maybe Levein could explain to the fans and (clearly) the players what exactly those coaching methods are.

 

 

 

It's going to be amazing once Cathro learns that other teams are going to put in some crosses and try to win tackles.  Then we'll get the benefit of his amazing coaching.

 

http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/big-interview-craig-levein-opens-up-on-cathro-and-hearts-plans-1-4461461

[May one-six]

I don't wish to be pedantic but if you're gauging this season's results then it's played 3 won 2. That 66.6% win ratio would get you quite far up the Premiership league table.

 

Last season was awful but I argued that the team needed gutting and he has done that to a degree this summer so far with solid signings such as Smith, Berra and Laffery. The problem is we seem to have stopped signing players and that's my big concern. We still need a goalkeeper and at least two midfielders and possibly another striker.

 

If we don't make it out of this League Cup group section then Cathro might well get his jotters but otherwise, I chose to see how he does this season with his own team before making a judgement.

 

...but the state of the club now is nowhere near to what it was in the grim 1970s.

 

.

That win percentage is stretching things - we've not played a Premiership level side. However, our performances, and last night's result, suggest things have not changed at all since last season. I agree that off the park nothing is comparable to the 70s. But on it, things are very much like that time, and the complete lack of acknowledgement by senior people at the club that we are performing way under par suggests complacency is rife. 

[Buffalo Bill]

That win percentage is stretching things - we've not played a Premiership level side. However, our performances, and last night's result, suggest things have not changed at all since last season. I agree that off the park nothing is comparable to the 70s. But on it, things are very much like that time, and the complete lack of acknowledgement by senior people at the club that we are performing way under par suggests complacency is rife. 

 

66% is pushing it a bit but I was only responding to your post that "We have been close to the worst performing Premiership team since Cathro was appointed. He has not improved things in any way".

 

Well two wins out of three is an improvement, as are the signings of Laffery and Berra (bodes well for the future) but you're right, we've not played Premiership games yet...so let's not judge him on his Premiership record this season until he has a record to be judged upon.

[graham]

.

[Lucille's Thirsty]

A totally reasonable post. Hypothetically if we were to lose the upcoming 4 away league games would you still give him till October or would that leave his position untenable ?

It would be absolute toxic mate he couldn't survive.

[269miles]

It's going to be amazing once Cathro learns that other teams are going to put in some crosses and try to win tackles.  Then we'll get the benefit of his amazing coaching.

 

http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/big-interview-craig-levein-opens-up-on-cathro-and-hearts-plans-1-4461461

This season we would have had the fourth biggest budget so we are not happy with being one place worse than that. This season, and Ian learning what he needed to learn, will be very valuable. If we start next season poorly, although I don?t want to speculate on that, then we?ll look at things again.?

 

Read more at: http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/big-interview-craig-levein-opens-up-on-cathro-and-hearts-plans-1-4461461

 

Dear Craig

 

Do you think we have started the season poorly ? Cup banana skins aside (any club can get beaten by a bottom tier club in the cup I know, it just seems to be Hearts these days, most of the time) but how would you rate the LC games so far? An improvement ? Inspiring ? 

 

Thanks.

[black stump]

radically different? Where exactly is this taking place?

 

We used to win most of our games, now we lose most of them...

 

  That's different

 

 and pretty radical too...

 

 

[May one-six]

66% is pushing it a bit but I was only responding to your post that "We have been close to the worst performing Premiership team since Cathro was appointed. He has not improved things in any way".

 

Well two wins out of three is an improvement, as are the signings of Laffery and Berra (bodes well for the future) but you're right, we've not played Premiership games yet...so let's not judge him on his Premiership record this season until he has a record to be judged upon.

He hasn't improved things in any way. His two wins this season have come against lower league sides. The performances and last night's dreadful effort do not bode well for the league games. My concern is that when we have lost our four league games people will still be complacent and saying that he needs more time because the matches have been away from home. There seems to be a never ending litany of excuses for him delivering crap football. 

[Boab]

He hasn't improved things in any way. His two wins this season have come against lower league sides. The performances and last night's dreadful effort do not bode well for the league games. My concern is that when we have lost our four league games people will still be complacent and saying that he needs more time because the matches have been away from home. There seems to be a never ending litany of excuses for him delivering crap football.

Yip.

Getting results while playing crap football will keep some wolves from the door....see Robbie N....losing and not changing is adios time.

[rudi must stay]

I could have got 11 guys from my street that would have given a better account of themselves than Cathros Strollers did last night. Motivation is not this guys strong point, in fact he motivates players to try their walking skills when wearing the shirt. I don't know what team you support but it seems your quite happy for the guy who's record is second to none in failure at Hearts to carry on where he left off last season. Whatever he's doing in training is not working and he continues to do it, he just can't change. Time for us to change him for someone who is half decent at least

I support the same team as most people on here. Yesterday was an irritating result but we have been making progress, this team seems a vast improvement on the one that finished the season, and yesterday was hopefully a blip. By the way apparently his training is excellent

[Walter Bishop]

We still have fans that want to give this clown time. This tells you how soft we now are as a club.

 

For all his faults Romanov created a siege mentality at Hearts that we will never see with this "nice" regime in charge!

 

 

 

[Lucille's Thirsty]

We still have fans that want to give this clown time. This tells you how soft we now are as a club.

 

For all his faults Romanov created a siege mentality at Hearts that we will never see with this "nice" regime in charge!

 

 

 

Imagine if Romanov was in charge.

 

Cathro's balls would be hung on the Scott's Monument before he was able to board the bus after full time.

 

Mind you would Romanov employed this boy.

[Rudi5kaceldream1ng]

Where did I say things are "perfect"?

You didn't, not having a go. I think it's time hearts fans started to be more critical of the FOH board though-in a constructive manner.

 

At the end of the day we will inherit the club shortly so we must legitimately question the logic of wasting vital finances on both a DOF and a manager when it clearly isn't working. We must also question the validity of the system levein has implemented. We must take the FOH to task on this and ask them why HMFC are not good enough for a high profile manager. We must ask the FOH why HMFC have become an apprentice coaching centre?

 

I can see this apprentice scheme working at a wee club like Spartans but to implement this type of scheme at a top tier premier league club isn't only ignorant it's downright dangerous at a pivotal time in the club's history, when it is essential we deliver on the park to retain the support of the fans who as aforementioned will inherit the club.

 

Let's demand a clear effective strategy and some answers. Now.

[Gokuzo_The_Jambo]

Imagine if Romanov was in charge.

 

Cathro's balls would be hung on the Scott's Monument before he was able to board the bus after full time.

 

Mind you would Romanov employed this boy.

 

The problem now is that we don't have an "on-paper" rich owner pumping money in to pay off managers and hire new ones.

 

We are meant to be self-sustaining now. Cathro signing a long term deal means compensation - which from a business point of view - Budge won't want to pay out if she doesn't absolutely have to. Especially with the stand budget running over a "little".

 

I reckon the first 6 or 7 games will shape his future - if he does okay then she will put up with it for a bit longer, if not, then time to bite the bullet and pay him off.

 

Note - I personally would like him to go now.

[samcdonald22]

Flogging a dead horse

[Bowmans_Boot]

I have never called for Cathro to be sacked and always said he should be given time. If we dont beat Dunfermline on Saturday then his time will be up for me.

[ford donald]

I also want to know what makes Cathro so special that at such a young age with no managerial experience and have never played the game professionally was given the hot seat at a club like Hearts. Can someone please tell me.

 Levein rates him highly,thats the only reason,nobody else does.

[ford donald]

I support the same team as most people on here. Yesterday was an irritating result but we have been making progress, this team seems a vast improvement on the one that finished the season, and yesterday was hopefully a blip. By the way apparently his training is excellent

 

 

Unfortunately we need his managerial skills to be excellent.

[JamboPete]

His current record in all comps is

 

P 29

W 8

D 6

L 15

 

That's a win ratio of 27.59%

 

That is clearly not good enough and almost certainly would have us in the running for relegation.

 

He has had his chance and it hasn't worked.

 

Bring in Michael O'Neill to work alongside Austin MacPhee.

[Lucille's Thirsty]

His current record in all comps is

 

P 29

W 8

D 6

L 15

 

That's a win ratio of 27.59%

 

That is clearly not good enough and almost certainly would have us in the running for relegation.

 

He has had his chance and it hasn't worked.

 

Bring in Michael O'Neill to work alongside Austin MacPhee.

It's so blatantly not going to work out for Cathro here. I get Ann and Craig are building some stability but not if it's getting in the way of our ambitions.

[kingantti1874]

I support the same team as most people on here. Yesterday was an irritating result but we have been making progress, this team seems a vast improvement on the one that finished the season, and yesterday was hopefully a blip. By the way apparently his training is excellent

When did we make progress? Because to me it doesn't seem to matter how good his training is, how many players we try to get to work for him, how enjoyable his training is..

 

On the park we are still utterly shit and given how utterly shit we are we pick up shit results.. His record in charge is absolutely diabolical.. Easily and by some distance the worst ever.. All at a time when things have never been better off the park..

[kingantti1874]

His current record in all comps is

 

P 29

W 8

D 6

L 15

 

That's a win ratio of 27.59%

 

That is clearly not good enough and almost certainly would have us in the running for relegation.

 

He has had his chance and it hasn't worked.

 

Bring in Michael O'Neill to work alongside Austin MacPhee.

A fair number of those wins against lower league opposition..

[rudi must stay]

When did we make progress? Because to me it doesn't seem to matter how good his training is, how many players we try to get to work for him, how enjoyable his training is..

 

On the park we are still utterly shit and given how utterly shit we are we pick up shit results.. His record in charge is absolutely diabolical.. Easily and by some distance the worst ever.. All at a time when things have never been better off the park..

Before the Peterhead game people thought we were making progress. I thought we looked good Vs East Fife and Newcastle

[Bring Back Paulo Sergio]

Yep, called it a long time ago the boy was utterly useless.

 

We haven't looked good against these league 2 club. At this point I'd even replace him with Kris Boyd.

[Captain America]

A fair number of those wins against lower league opposition..

3 and 1 only after extra time.

 

Only 1 win against Top 6 side. 

 

Not good reading.

[i8hibsh]

A fair number of those wins against lower league opposition..

 

 

And defeats too.  That makes it even worse.

[Buffalo Bill]

You didn't, not having a go. I think it's time hearts fans started to be more critical of the FOH board though-in a constructive manner.

 

At the end of the day we will inherit the club shortly so we must legitimately question the logic of wasting vital finances on both a DOF and a manager when it clearly isn't working. We must also question the validity of the system levein has implemented. We must take the FOH to task on this and ask them why HMFC are not good enough for a high profile manager. We must ask the FOH why HMFC have become an apprentice coaching centre?

 

I can see this apprentice scheme working at a wee club like Spartans but to implement this type of scheme at a top tier premier league club isn't only ignorant it's downright dangerous at a pivotal time in the club's history, when it is essential we deliver on the park to retain the support of the fans who as aforementioned will inherit the club.

 

Let's demand a clear effective strategy and some answers. Now.

 

 

By all means, you can contact the FoH are ask challenge them on that but until the last moment the club is handed over the FoH, it belongs to Ann Budge and every decision is hers to make.

[Lucille's Thirsty]

By all means, you can contact the FoH are ask challenge them on that but until the last moment the club is handed over the FoH, it belongs to Ann Budge and every decision is hers to make.

I know Ann is busy with other business with the new stand and all that but she's got to be more ruthless,do you remember when she came in a just obliterated the staff,we were just in or coming out of admin I understand.

 

Cathro is a charlatan that needs to be removed asap.

[Fraggle]

Nothing has changed for me in terms of when judgement is , he still gets the first 10 league games of the season to either make or break his Hearts career.

[Bungalow Bill]

pretty sure its Levein signing these players, especially given those that have come in, which is a sensible move if it goes tits up in august/september.

You think it's Levein based on who we are signing. 2 players are Northern Irish internationals and our assistant manager is Norhern Irish assistant manager, hmmmm. But you think it's Levein...

[Watt-Zeefuik]

My position is close to BB's at this point, and thanks to him for articulating his so clearly.

 

If we didn't fire Cathro at the end of the season, there's no sense in firing him after only one bad result.  We were fielding very much not a first choice team and one which we haven't finished filling out in the window.  Additionally, Cathro was clearly trying a new formation as well as giving a look at some players we'll need to make decisions on (like McGhee, whose contract is up in December). I don't think the LC group stages are a bad place to do that, and yes I see this about on par with Robbie's first team getting thrashed by Livingston in the wee wee cup.

 

All that said, yes, it was completely unacceptable and it puts Cathro on a very short leash. Dunfermline is now very much must-win -- he needs to field the strongest team and show that we're capable of a response after a bad loss. Anything less than a win and he must go, IMO. But neither does a win get him out of the doghouse.

 

I'm willing to forgive a bad loss to Peterhead because football is a funny game and odd results happen, but that goes both ways.  The opening five matches are a brutal stretch, of course, but Cathro needs to get a couple of better-than-expected results out of that -- frankly we need to win one of the OF games. Muddling along with five points after five matches after all the upgrades we've made over the summer is just not good enough, even during a tough stretch.

 

My hope at this point frankly is in Berra.  Last season Cathro lacked a field marshal capable of getting in the players ears and organizing the team from the pitch. He has probably the best any Hearts manager could ask for now. As I said, we need not just a win but a response on Saturday, and I'm putting my hopes that CB can both get in the players ear about what went wrong but also get in Cathro's ear where he's making bad substitutions and being too cute.

[kingantti1874]

My position is close to BB's at this point, and thanks to him for articulating his so clearly.

 

If we didn't fire Cathro at the end of the season, there's no sense in firing him after only one bad result. We were fielding very much not a first choice team and one which we haven't finished filling out in the window. Additionally, Cathro was clearly trying a new formation as well as giving a look at some players we'll need to make decisions on (like McGhee, whose contract is up in December). I don't think the LC group stages are a bad place to do that, and yes I see this about on par with Robbie's first team getting thrashed by Livingston in the wee wee cup.

 

All that said, yes, it was completely unacceptable and it puts Cathro on a very short leash. Dunfermline is now very much must-win -- he needs to field the strongest team and show that we're capable of a response after a bad loss. Anything less than a win and he must go, IMO. But neither does a win get him out of the doghouse.

 

I'm willing to forgive a bad loss to Peterhead because football is a funny game and odd results happen, but that goes both ways. The opening five matches are a brutal stretch, of course, but Cathro needs to get a couple of better-than-expected results out of that -- frankly we need to win one of the OF games. Muddling along with five points after five matches after all the upgrades we've made over the summer is just not good enough, even during a tough stretch.

 

My hope at this point frankly is in Berra. Last season Cathro lacked a field marshal capable of getting in the players ears and organizing the team from the pitch. He has probably the best any Hearts manager could ask for now. As I said, we need not just a win but a response on Saturday, and I'm putting my hopes that CB can both get in the players ear about what went wrong but also get in Cathro's ear where he's making bad substitutions and being too cute.

Shouldn't be up to a player to coach a manager.. What M I reading. He's not up to the job.. The end..

[Robbo-Jambo]

 

 

I support the same team as most people on here. Yesterday was an irritating result but we have been making progress, this team seems a vast improvement on the one that finished the season, and yesterday was hopefully a blip. By the way apparently his training is excellent

As long as we look good in training that's the main thing eh!! [emoji20]

 

Sent from my F3111 using Tapatalk

[Glamorous Glue]

This Buffalo Bill guy must work for hearts. It's the only way I can make any sense of his posts.

[Watt-Zeefuik]

Shouldn't be up to a player to coach a manager.. What M I reading. He's not up to the job.. The end..

 

Should always be up to a captain to push back when the players are seeing something the manager isn't. There are things you can't see from the touchline.

[Bring Back Paulo Sergio]

Should always be up to a captain to push back when the players are seeing something the manager isn't. There are things you can't see from the touchline.

Your posts smack of someone trying to convince themselves more than anything for fear of being called a pant-wetter from the 'just happy to have a team to support' brigade.

[Watt-Zeefuik]

Your posts smack of someone trying to convince themselves more than anything for fear of being called a pant-wetter from the 'just happy to have a team to support' brigade.

 

Oh FFS. It's simple -- I was out on Cathro some time around February last year and I wasn't shy about saying so on here. I thought he should have been fired before the split.

 

But that didn't happen, and there were decent reasons for doing so.  Once it became clear we weren't going to fire him at the end of the season it became about hoping for the best.

 

And the facts remain -- we were not remotely playing the best team we'll have available at the beginning of the league season, we were trying an experimental formation, and the game was low stakes because it's a group game. It was appalling, not good enough, and we should have been able to play a youth squad and win. But funny things happen in football. Just like Neilson's Hibs cup loss, judging a football manager (or head coach or whatever) on one or two matches is stupid.

 

But apparently "if he doesn't win Saturday, fire him" isn't strong enough for some people. 

[Bring Back Paulo Sergio]

Oh FFS. It's simple -- I was out on Cathro some time around February last year and I wasn't shy about saying so on here. I thought he should have been fired before the split.

 

But that didn't happen, and there were decent reasons for doing so. Once it became clear we weren't going to fire him at the end of the season it became about hoping for the best.

 

And the facts remain -- we were not remotely playing the best team we'll have available at the beginning of the league season, we were trying an experimental formation, and the game was low stakes because it's a group game. It was appalling, not good enough, and we should have been able to play a youth squad and win. But funny things happen in football. Just like Neilson's Hibs cup loss, judging a football manager (or head coach or whatever) on one or two matches is stupid.

 

But apparently "if he doesn't win Saturday, fire him" isn't strong enough for some people.

So your justification for Cathro residing over a defeat to Peterhead is because he had to make do with Hamilton and Prince Buaben

 

All this experimental tactics bollocks is just nonsense. Cathro fielded a full strength team that under anyone else could sit comfortably in the top 6 in the SPL.

 

Your tactics have to be seriously flawed if your struggling against Elgin and getting beat to Edit - Peterhead.

 

Cathro can't get the best out of 3 different squads now and is clueless tactically and doesn't know the basis. (As Levien alluded to in an interview.)

 

He's a charlatan and you know it.

[Lucille's Thirsty]

So your justification for Cathro residing over a defeat to Peterhead is because he had to make do with Hamilton and Prince Buaben

 

All this experimental tactics bollocks is just nonsense. Cathro fielded a full strength team that under anyone else could sit comfortably in the top 6 in the SPL.

 

Your tactics have to be seriously flawed if your struggling against Elgin and getting beat to East Fife.

 

Cathro can't get the best out of 3 different squads now and is clueless tactically and doesn't know the basis. (As Levien alluded to in an interview.)

 

He's a charlatan and you know it.

If you can't beat Peterhead with Buaben and Hamilton you might as well pack it in something I wished Cathro would do.