Iain Cathro ongoing Poll and discussion Thread

[teamof1958]

This is not another Cathro Out thread.

 

In the normal running of things within business management you would not take a promising, young, inexperienced, individual and put him/her straight into a senior management post of a high profile company.

 

Yet this is exactly what has happened to Ian Cathro.

 

What about Robbie Neilson then? Many might ask. The situation was different when Neilson was appointed. We had just been relegated and a major re-build of the team was necessary. Appointing Neilson was during a time when we had a lot less to lose and as it transpired, he was a natural for the job. This is pretty rare, but the flaw here was that Neilson left when the veneer was beginning to wear off and his management credentials are therefore incomplete.     

 

There is a saying in business that managers are not born, but created. Sure, within football there are plenty of exceptions to this, Ferguson and Dalglish for example, but as a rule, it is a doctrine that is well followed. In most corporations with a ?9.9 million turnover any management appointment would come from the result of an extensive management training programme or the appointment of an experienced manager from another company.

 

This is what I can?t understand about Cathro?s appointment.

 

Certainly it is Levein?s role to mentor him, but Levein has made it clear that the team is Cathro?s responsibility. Looked at in this light, it?s totally crazy. It?s little wonder that results have been as they are. I am surprised that a successful business person like Ann Budge has allowed this to happen, but in her defence I would say her blind faith in Levein and his decision making has been the problem here.

 

I am not advocating the removal of Levein or Cathro for that matter. What I am saying that if Mrs. Budge wants this system to work, then it has to be done properly and not just left to the individuals in question to sort it out (or not).

 

Starting with Craig Levein, he?s an experienced manager with a reasonable track record, but has he had any training in being a Director of Football? There are loads of courses for senior management, has he ever been on any? Does he keep a log of the courses he?s been on and does he have a person development plan?   

 

Ian Cathro comes across as a bright, articulate and knowledgeable individual. A perfect candidate for grooming into management, but appears to lack either professional training or he is not yet ready for the job. Has he been on any external management courses? What does he know about managing in a results business? Does he have a plan for personal development? What help, back up and support does he receive?

 

I do think that the supporters who plough money into the club deserve answers to all of this.

 

It?s easy to call for the heads of Levein and or Cathro. However these are talented people, and in Levein?s case, a proven Hearts man. I?d like to see a visual professional management system installed at Tynecastle where training is provided at all levels.

 

It happens in other businesses and should be happening in a results business with a ?10 million turnover.

 

If it doesn?t work, then yes, the individuals have to go. Surely however, it is worth investing time and money into such a project and get the club moving forward in cohesive harmony. I also believe the fans who put their money into the club are entitled to see evidence of the progress made.                 

[Mikey1874]

That's pretty negative

[Bauld]

[Bull's-eye]

This is another Cathro out thread.

[Ulysses]

Haven't we already got a few Cathro out threads?

[davemclaren]

Haven't we already got a few Cathro out threads?

Indeed, this has now been merged.

[siegementality]

This is not another Cathro Out thread.

 

In the normal running of things within business management you would not take a promising, young, inexperienced, individual and put him/her straight into a senior management post of a high profile company.

 

Yet this is exactly what has happened to Ian Cathro.

 

What about Robbie Neilson then? Many might ask. The situation was different when Neilson was appointed. We had just been relegated and a major re-build of the team was necessary. Appointing Neilson was during a time when we had a lot less to lose and as it transpired, he was a natural for the job. This is pretty rare, but the flaw here was that Neilson left when the veneer was beginning to wear off and his management credentials are therefore incomplete.     

 

There is a saying in business that managers are not born, but created. Sure, within football there are plenty of exceptions to this, Ferguson and Dalglish for example, but as a rule, it is a doctrine that is well followed. In most corporations with a ?9.9 million turnover any management appointment would come from the result of an extensive management training programme or the appointment of an experienced manager from another company.

 

This is what I can?t understand about Cathro?s appointment.

 

Certainly it is Levein?s role to mentor him, but Levein has made it clear that the team is Cathro?s responsibility. Looked at in this light, it?s totally crazy. It?s little wonder that results have been as they are. I am surprised that a successful business person like Ann Budge has allowed this to happen, but in her defence I would say her blind faith in Levein and his decision making has been the problem here.

 

I am not advocating the removal of Levein or Cathro for that matter. What I am saying that if Mrs. Budge wants this system to work, then it has to be done properly and not just left to the individuals in question to sort it out (or not).

 

Starting with Craig Levein, he?s an experienced manager with a reasonable track record, but has he had any training in being a Director of Football? There are loads of courses for senior management, has he ever been on any? Does he keep a log of the courses he?s been on and does he have a person development plan?   

 

Ian Cathro comes across as a bright, articulate and knowledgeable individual. A perfect candidate for grooming into management, but appears to lack either professional training or he is not yet ready for the job. Has he been on any external management courses? What does he know about managing in a results business? Does he have a plan for personal development? What help, back up and support does he receive?

 

I do think that the supporters who plough money into the club deserve answers to all of this.

 

It?s easy to call for the heads of Levein and or Cathro. However these are talented people, and in Levein?s case, a proven Hearts man. I?d like to see a visual professional management system installed at Tynecastle where training is provided at all levels.

 

It happens in other businesses and should be happening in a results business with a ?10 million turnover.

 

If it doesn?t work, then yes, the individuals have to go. Surely however, it is worth investing time and money into such a project and get the club moving forward in cohesive harmony. I also believe the fans who put their money into the club are entitled to see evidence of the progress made.

 

It would appear it was another Cathro out thread after all.

[HMFC86]

Well I didn't mean to be. So I apologise for that.

Accepted

[mitch41]

You know on all the threads next to nobody is defending Cathro. Most want him out now or given a few games at the start of next season. Next to nobody is saying he'll be a good Head Coach/Manager.

[wavydavy]

This is not another Cathro Out thread.

 

In the normal running of things within business management you would not take a promising, young, inexperienced, individual and put him/her straight into a senior management post of a high profile company.

 

Yet this is exactly what has happened to Ian Cathro.

 

What about Robbie Neilson then? Many might ask. The situation was different when Neilson was appointed. We had just been relegated and a major re-build of the team was necessary. Appointing Neilson was during a time when we had a lot less to lose and as it transpired, he was a natural for the job. This is pretty rare, but the flaw here was that Neilson left when the veneer was beginning to wear off and his management credentials are therefore incomplete.     

 

There is a saying in business that managers are not born, but created. Sure, within football there are plenty of exceptions to this, Ferguson and Dalglish for example, but as a rule, it is a doctrine that is well followed. In most corporations with a ?9.9 million turnover any management appointment would come from the result of an extensive management training programme or the appointment of an experienced manager from another company.

 

This is what I can?t understand about Cathro?s appointment.

 

Certainly it is Levein?s role to mentor him, but Levein has made it clear that the team is Cathro?s responsibility. Looked at in this light, it?s totally crazy. It?s little wonder that results have been as they are. I am surprised that a successful business person like Ann Budge has allowed this to happen, but in her defence I would say her blind faith in Levein and his decision making has been the problem here.

 

I am not advocating the removal of Levein or Cathro for that matter. What I am saying that if Mrs. Budge wants this system to work, then it has to be done properly and not just left to the individuals in question to sort it out (or not).

 

Starting with Craig Levein, he?s an experienced manager with a reasonable track record, but has he had any training in being a Director of Football? There are loads of courses for senior management, has he ever been on any? Does he keep a log of the courses he?s been on and does he have a person development plan?   

 

Ian Cathro comes across as a bright, articulate and knowledgeable individual. A perfect candidate for grooming into management, but appears to lack either professional training or he is not yet ready for the job. Has he been on any external management courses? What does he know about managing in a results business? Does he have a plan for personal development? What help, back up and support does he receive?

 

I do think that the supporters who plough money into the club deserve answers to all of this.

 

It?s easy to call for the heads of Levein and or Cathro. However these are talented people, and in Levein?s case, a proven Hearts man. I?d like to see a visual professional management system installed at Tynecastle where training is provided at all levels.

 

It happens in other businesses and should be happening in a results business with a ?10 million turnover.

 

If it doesn?t work, then yes, the individuals have to go. Surely however, it is worth investing time and money into such a project and get the club moving forward in cohesive harmony. I also believe the fans who put their money into the club are entitled to see evidence of the progress made.                 

 

You've just been on one of those company training courses wher they split you into little groups and give you tasks to do that you can never do in the time they give you.

 

They do it to see if you work as a team and who the leaders are, in fact it's a bit like watching a football team running about not really knowing what they are doing.

[Bowmans_Boot]

You know on all the threads next to nobody is defending Cathro. Most want him out now or given a few games at the start of next season. Next to nobody is saying he'll be a good Head Coach/Manager.

I (& others) have said exactly that several times on this thread.

[siegementality]

I (& others) have said exactly that several times on this thread.

I've stated my reasons why I will support Cathro until the end of the first round of games. I'll go as far to say that I think he'll still be in post after that.

[VALDOS]

Support for the manager is growing.

 

Good.

exactly what is being said down at Fester Rd.

[Bowmans_Boot]

I've stated my reasons why I will support Cathro until the end of the first round of games. I'll go as far to say that I think he'll still be in post after that.

I agree. I believe with the right signings we could be a very good team. Having the first few games away from home does worry me, though, given how utterly abysmal we have been away for the last while.

[hueyview]

How many hibs fans do we think have voted stay? Sure as shit none have voted for him to leave..

A poorer record than terry butcher had at hibs.. How is that even possible..? Yet still we have hearts fans who want him to stay.. Unreal

Well now there is the expression in football, of doing a Butcher... Mr Cathros not quite there.............yet

[151]

Accepted

[Section Q]

Pretty much what we're saying without the hysteria.

 

http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/story-behind-ian-cathros-24-13066169

[been here before]

Check it oot....

 

 

It's a Cathro thread.

[siegementality]

And this couldn't have went on the big Cathro thread why?

[gedster]

They must have laughed when they managed to get shot of him.

[kila]

Do you ever post anything positive? Just seems to be anything to beat Hearts with

[HMFC86]

They must have laughed when they managed to get shot of him.

Was/is very highly rated by players & staff at Newcastle United

[Hagar the Horrible]

So just had a quick look, and since Cathro started Inverness have had 20 points to our 21,  so we would be in the play-off.  Ross County have finished with the same points as us over-all  Next season will be a disaster,  A new manager will miss a transfer window, to get his own players in, Cathro with have to make do with more CL duds, and be unable to make them play this super-duper way?  The next manager wont be able to do anything much in January?, so a relegation battle from the off, but as I predict we will lose the first 5 games of the season, that will be as good as the 15 point deduction Locke had to deal with?

[HMFC86]

So just had a quick look, and since Cathro started Inverness have had 20 points to our 21, so we would be in the play-off. Ross County have finished with the same points as us over-all Next season will be a disaster, A new manager will miss a transfer window, to get his own players in, Cathro with have to make do with more CL duds, and be unable to make them play this super-duper way? The next manager wont be able to do anything much in January?, so a relegation battle from the off, but as I predict we will lose the first 5 games of the season, that will be as good as the 15 point deduction Locke had to deal with?

So you say that a new manager wouldn't be able to do anything in January, but that is one of the sticks used to beat Cathro with?

 

Difference next season will be the players(who will not be duds) will be able to play the type of football Castro wants. If it doesn't work, the new manager would have a much better caliber of player.

[Bring Back Paulo Sergio]

Anyone wanting Cathro to stay for any period of time must think he has a chance of becoming a good manager for us.

 

Nobody can seriously think.

 

"Aye he's shite but we have to give him more time, because, aye. Cannae go changing managers every six months likesay."

 

"But he's one of the worst in our history. I'm not suggesting we change managers all the time, only when it's necessary"

 

"Cannae change managers every six months. Pure 'n' simple."

[Mikey1874]

Pretty much what we're saying without the hysteria.

 

http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/story-behind-ian-cathros-24-13066169

So what you are really saying then is Hearts fans, many on here anyway, are being hysterical

 

Yeah seems about right

[milky_26]

And this couldn't have went on the big Cathro thread why?

didnt Newcastle have a mini slump just after Cathro left

[JamboJen]

And this couldn't have went on the big Cathro thread why?

Because that would deprive the OP of starting yet another Cathro thread.

[teamof1958]

You've just been on one of those company training courses wher they split you into little groups and give you tasks to do that you can never do in the time they give you.

 

They do it to see if you work as a team and who the leaders are, in fact it's a bit like watching a football team running about not really knowing what they are doing.

You've just been on one of those company training courses wher they split you into little groups and give you tasks to do that you can never do in the time they give you.

 

They do it to see if you work as a team and who the leaders are, in fact it's a bit like watching a foo

 

alql team running about not really knowing what they are doing.

Actually,no. It appears my post is being generally misunderstood. It is a comment to the effect that management is actually created rather than being a gift. It's my opinion that Cathro is a victim of this rather than being useless, which is the popular belief.

 

Given proper training, he may well have the abilities to become a top class manager, but right now without this help, he won't succeed. I think the club can do better than it is doing in this direction.

 

I'm also disappointed that it has been lumped together with the other "Cathro Out" posts. This is a totally different approach to similar threads.

[mitch41]

I agree. I believe with the right signings we could be a very good team. Having the first few games away from home does worry me, though, given how utterly abysmal we have been away for the last while.

So you think we'll be spineless wimps in the first few away games but with the right signings we'll be a very good team.

Well you've got me there.

[siegementality]

Actually,no. It appears my post is being generally misunderstood. It is a comment to the effect that management is actually created rather than being a gift. It's my opinion that Cathro is a victim of this rather than being useless, which is the popular belief.

Given proper training, he may well have the abilities to become a top class manager, but right now without this help, he won't succeed. I think the club can do better than it is doing in this direction.

I'm also disappointed that it has been lumped together with the other "Cathro Out" posts. This is a totally different approach to similar threads.

No it's not. Ultimately you are Cathro bashing with some management wank speak thrown in.

[siegementality]

So you think we'll be spineless wimps in the first few away games but with the right signings we'll be a very good team.

Well you've got me there.

Now that's not what he said at all.

[...a bit disco]

That article doesn't actually say anything.

 

It's just a presentation of some facts.

[1971fozzy]

Damning facts and spot on regarding the matches v the vermin next season. I'm accepting we are stuck with this clown but hope to be proved wrong. However no matter what next season brings I won't accept bending over and taking it when we play the vermin again.

[Stephen Muddie]

That article doesn't actually say anything.

 

It's just a presentation of some facts.

An unusual route for a newspaper to take, I'll admit.

 

It'll never catch on

[RudiHMFC]

Indeed, this has now been merged.

Why the rush to put all threads on Cathro into one thread? Is it to create the illusion that the vast majority of fans don't want rid of him? Pretty weird behaviour when he's the manager and the main point of discussion to sandwich everything into to one big thread that nobody can be arsed reading through.

[kingantti1874]

So you say that a new manager wouldn't be able to do anything in January, but that is one of the sticks used to beat Cathro with?

 

Difference next season will be the players(who will not be duds) will be able to play the type of football Castro wants. If it doesn't work, the new manager would have a much better caliber of player.

Should he or should he not have done better with the team we have.. unless you think man for man we are the worst in the league.. he's done a shit job..there are many many sticks to beat Cathro with as he's been all over terrible

[The Real Maroonblood]

Why the rush to put all threads on Cathro into one thread? Is it to create the illusion that the vast majority of fans don't want rid of him? Pretty weird behaviour when he's the manager and the main point of discussion to sandwich everything into to one big thread that nobody can be arsed reading through.

Multiple threads on the same subject are time consuming.

[dustybin]

I cannot work out why anyone under the recent slump in results would want this guy in charge, he is so clearly out his depth, let him learn his trade as head coach at some other club instead of our club being the guinea pig.

[Section Q]

Do you ever post anything positive? Just seems to be anything to beat Hearts with

What's wrong with the article..?

[ericb]

In budgement day it all happened so fast, Locke out, Robbie/Levein in. The players arrived almost instantly which made it obvious they'd been planning it for a while.

 

I suspect that we're about to see that again, as close as Monday / Tuesday next week. Cathro out / new man in who has already been involved in the player recruitment.

[Stephen Muddie]

What's wrong with the article..?

It's not got populist hyperbole contained within, I guess

[Section Q]

It's not got populist hyperbole contained within, I guess

I think Cathro was quite highly thought of in Newcastle as one of the coaching staff and they take him back in September/October.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

In budgement day it all happened so fast, Locke out, Robbie/Levein in. The players arrived almost instantly which made it obvious they'd been planning it for a while.

 

I suspect that we're about to see that again, as close as Monday / Tuesday next week. Cathro out / new man in who has already been involved in the player recruitment.

Very much doubt that.

 

And if Cathro is going then I want Levein gone too

[HMFC86]

Should he or should he not have done better with the team we have.. unless you think man for man we are the worst in the league.. he's done a shit job..there are many many sticks to beat Cathro with as he's been all over terrible

I think the players have to carry the majority if the blame. Technically are they the worst in the league, no way. In terms of effort, passion & application? Yes they are.

[Hungry hippo]

I think the players have to carry the majority if the blame. Technically are they the worst in the league, no way. In terms of effort, passion & application? Yes they are.

The players should be ashamed but Cathro is being paid good money to motivate them.

[HMFC86]

The players should be ashamed but Cathro is being paid good money to motivate them.

Yeah and I think he has found that hard, but it is hard to motivate players that couldn't care less. I think he should have binned the imposters and played the likes of Beith(when he's not injured). So I do think he made a mistake there.

 

However I honestly think he deserves the summer to put in place the team he wants. If by the first round of fixtures there's no improvement then he'll be away. But I think you will be surprised.

 

If I'm wrong I'm wrong. But I think it's hard to judge now.

[luckydug]

In budgement day it all happened so fast, Locke out, Robbie/Levein in. The players arrived almost instantly which made it obvious they'd been planning it for a while.

 

I suspect that we're about to see that again, as close as Monday / Tuesday next week. Cathro out / new man in who has already been involved in the player recruitment.

 

That's my feeling as well not ITK just a feeling.

It would have been nice if things had worked out but they haven't and the decision the board now have to make is.

Do we have faith in this man to spend our very limited budget wisely ?

I don't. I wish I did but if it was up to me I would pull the plug on Monday.

Bearing in mind compensation payments are going to eat into that budget big time.

[deejtee]

I think Cathro was quite highly thought of in Newcastle as one of the coaching staff and they take him back in September/October.

Not necessarily true.

[Dawnrazor]

Not necessarily true.

Was he not well thought off as a coach at Newcastle?