Iain Cathro ongoing Poll and discussion Thread

[kingantti1874]

Honestly - they may as well have gone on stage and said (cathro)we want to be like...... eh Barca - (McPhee) yeah Barca Ian - just like them, we will press it retain possession create space and score lots of goals.. (cathro) oh oh and don't forget we will FIGHT to the death..(McPhee) just as soon as we get rid of all these shite players who seem incapable of doing what we say..(cathro) yeah honestly I even tell them every day to do the same as Rafa said to Ronaldo but they just can't do it.. (crowd )what about Martin - the man who will turn draws into wins.. (McPhee) turns out his YouTube vid was edited..

 

Crowd nods - it cool lads - these boys know what they are doing.. I'm off to change my vote.

[Central Belt 1874]

As is your right BB.. my view - he clearly hasn't managed anywhere near par with our current squad, they are minimums in terms of effort and application are missing despite the public statements as to what we will and won't be doing, he's publicly said the players aren't good enough, (maybe they aren't - but the are better than 11th and we're good enough for top 3 before he arrived)

He's done nothing to show he can get a group of players playing to the maximum.. not one solitary thing..

Honestly I find the continued tolerance of a manager who's record is beyond abysmal very strange indeed.. it's almost hard to believe how bad his record is when you compare him to previous managers and the assets they had at their disposal ..

You seem to be missing most people's points about Cathro. Continued tolerance? There is nobody here defending him or his record, it's what happens after that. You need to add some realism to the current situation.

[Buffalo Bill]

I similarly don't get the notion that the players we have now are garbage who won't fight for the jersey.  Last year Walker, Nicholson, Djoum, Buaben, and towards the end Kitchen were good enough to feature in a team that was McGhee handball here and bogus or missed pens there from challenging a solid Aberdeen team for second.  The Paterson and Souttar excuse is hollow too -- Cathro had both of them for five games and picked up a total of five points in that span, which included dropping points to Ross County, Partick, and Dundee.

 

Again, Djoum played 90 minutes to win a ACN final. Kitchen got a WC call-up.  Walker was widely considered one of the best young players in the country to start the season.

 

If it were just the players, our form would have been strong through December and then dropped off as we lost players.  Instead, we turned to shite as soon as Cathro turned up and a major changeover of players in the January window changed exactly nothing.

 

The current squad has some weak spots but there is simply no way a decent manager wouldn't get more out of them.  And I mean bog standard SPFL manager -- a Kenny Shiels or Peter Houston.

 

Cathro may very well grow into a fine manager -- I would not be at all surprised -- but right now he's way over his head and needs some time off to reflect on this disaster of a season and rethink his methods.  I firmly believe throwing him into another transfer window with the bright glare of Tynecastle on his back will just make him wilt. 

 

As is your right BB.. my view - he clearly hasn't managed anywhere near par with our current squad, they are minimums in terms of effort and application are missing despite the public statements as to what we will and won't be doing, he's publicly said the players aren't good enough, (maybe they aren't - but the are better than 11th and we're good enough for top 3 before he arrived)

 

He's done nothing to show he can get a group of players playing to the maximum.. not one solitary thing..

 

Honestly I find the continued tolerance of a manager who's record is beyond abysmal very strange indeed.. it's almost hard to believe how bad his record is when you compare him to previous managers and the assets they had at their disposal ..

 

I don't judge him on his record with the current squad, because I don't think it is 'his' squad so to speak, or at least the vast majority of it, including most of those band-aid signings in January. The current squad is a Robbie Neilson/Craig Levein squad with maybe only Goncalves being the 'Cathro' signing, possibly Hughes too, I don't know.

 

We have done very poorly this season over all, and I think we're a terrible side right now.

 

But my confidence in Cathro is based on what I think he can begin to start building next season based on a good summer of recruitment.

 

I admit that, looking at the stats, all the empirical evidence lies with you and the doubters/naysayers. The people on my side are backing him on a leap of faith. 

 

But I'm bloody confident

[kingantti1874]

You seem to be missing most people's points about Cathro. Continued tolerance? There is nobody here defending him or his record, it's what happens after that. You need to add some realism to the current situation.

I don't think I'm missing it at all.. he has failed massively with the squad we current have (unless your in the group of crazies who think we have the second worst squad in Scotland) , he hasn't earned any more time. He's has literally done nowt.. realism - the WORST win record of any full time manager in the clubs history. At a time when we are stronger than ever off the field and have even gone to the lengths of replacing the pitch at a whim given the excuses he was making at the times.. he's an imposter who should be at this club one more minute.. a guy who's just hung his players out to dry to mask HIS failure.

[kingantti1874]

I don't judge him on his record with the current squad, because I don't think it is 'his' squad so to speak, or at least the vast majority of it, including most of those band-aid signings in January. The current squad is a Robbie Neilson/Craig Levein squad with maybe only Goncalves being the 'Cathro' signing, possibly Hughes too, I don't know.

 

We have done very poorly this season over all, and I think we're a terrible side right now.

 

But my confidence in Cathro is based on what I think he can begin to start building next season based on a good summer of recruitment.

 

I admit that, looking at the stats, all the empirical evidence lies with you and the doubters/naysayers. The people on my side are backing him on a leap of faith.

 

But I'm bloody confident

Tziolis, Martin, Hughes, goncalves, avontolidis.. all identified and request by either cathro or McPhee.. direct quotes at the time of the signings .. Struna was as well I believe but no quotes to back that up so I'll attribute him to levein.

[Buffalo Bill]

Tziolis, Martin, Hughes, goncalves, avontolidis.. all identified and request by either cathro or McPhee.. direct quotes at the time of the signings .. Struna was as well I believe but no quotes to back that up so I'll attribute him to levein.

 

 

Let me ask you a question, kingantti1974:

 

 

Do you think that it's possible that Hearts will be, under Ian Cathro, in the top 4 next season by Nov 1st, bearing in mind that we'll start with four away games?

[jambopilms]

Will this be the same "crap" including the internationals who they themselves brought in. And you wish to give them a another chance...

I just think that this has the potential to come good and break the mood so I think it should be given a chance to flourish. If it doesn't work then so be it. So what if we don't get into Europe or we don't win the cups for another year it's nothing more than the norm being a hearts fan over the years. If it doesn't start to look good next season then try something new.

[kila]

Tziolis, Martin, Hughes, goncalves, avontolidis.. all identified and request by either cathro or McPhee.. direct quotes at the time of the signings .. Struna was as well I believe but no quotes to back that up so I'll attribute him to levein.

 

Ok, but given the new signings and stop gaps were really needed, there's no evidence there was much better available that we could afford

[Cruyff Turn]

Regardless of whether anyone wants him to stay or go, the reality of the situation is that rightly or wrongly Ian Cathro will get the summer transfer window, pre season and probably 10 games minimum next season.

 

What has gone before is still relevant, it is his record that is in question here but next season he gets another chance, it won't be another 6 months to get it right and there can be no excuses about his players.

 

We now don't have a choice but to judge him on next seasons games. That is just how it is going to be so there is probably no point in going over it anytime in the next couple of weeks.

[Mr Sifter]

yep / probably 20/30 swing

Hadn't noticed. Cheers though, quite interesting.

[soonbe110]

Absolute garbage

So they all turned shite as soon as he walked through the door.. there isn't a player in our squad who wouldn't walk into Scotlands bottom 6 teams.. the excuses being made for this idiot are incredible

Osh?

[Watt-Zeefuik]

I don't judge him on his record with the current squad, because I don't think it is 'his' squad so to speak, or at least the vast majority of it, including most of those band-aid signings in January. The current squad is a Robbie Neilson/Craig Levein squad with maybe only Goncalves being the 'Cathro' signing, possibly Hughes too, I don't know.

 

We have done very poorly this season over all, and I think we're a terrible side right now.

 

But my confidence in Cathro is based on what I think he can begin to start building next season based on a good summer of recruitment.

 

I admit that, looking at the stats, all the empirical evidence lies with you and the doubters/naysayers. The people on my side are backing him on a leap of faith. 

 

But I'm bloody confident

 

But a huge part of the point of the Levein system was that we wouldn't have to do this every time!  Is this just a one-time thing to recalibrate the system, or is that out the window?

[kingantti1874]

Osh?

Fair point.. forgot he existed.

[deejtee]

I don't judge him on his record with the current squad, because I don't think it is 'his' squad so to speak, or at least the vast majority of it, including most of those band-aid signings in January. The current squad is a Robbie Neilson/Craig Levein squad with maybe only Goncalves being the 'Cathro' signing, possibly Hughes too, I don't know.

 

We have done very poorly this season over all, and I think we're a terrible side right now.

 

But my confidence in Cathro is based on what I think he can begin to start building next season based on a good summer of recruitment.

 

I admit that, looking at the stats, all the empirical evidence lies with you and the doubters/naysayers. The people on my side are backing him on a leap of faith. 

 

But I'm bloody confident

BB my leaps of faith need more evidence base or I'd be struck off

[socrates82]

I don't judge him on his record with the current squad, because I don't think it is 'his' squad so to speak, or at least the vast majority of it, including most of those band-aid signings in January. The current squad is a Robbie Neilson/Craig Levein squad with maybe only Goncalves being the 'Cathro' signing, possibly Hughes too, I don't know.

 

We have done very poorly this season over all, and I think we're a terrible side right now.

 

But my confidence in Cathro is based on what I think he can begin to start building next season based on a good summer of recruitment.

 

I admit that, looking at the stats, all the empirical evidence lies with you and the doubters/naysayers. The people on my side are backing him on a leap of faith. 

 

But I'm bloody confident

 

To be honest the fact that Neilson took that squad to 2nd when he left doesn't really help make the case for Cathro. Whatever way you look at it he's been a massive disappointment so far. If Cathro had not made many squad or system changes he would have had that excuse and I doubt he would have done much worse than he's done. With hindsight I'm sure him and Levein wish they'd tried to build on the work that had been done and it's forgotten that we were on a 5 game unbeaten run with several players hitting form.

 

I think January was a time when the club attempted to meet fan expectations by making a statement of intent with the signings. Bowing to fan pressure over players like Sammon though was a mistake. We need a management team that makes decisions based on their own view of players not what fans think of them on a Saturday.

 

Like you I'm hoping rather than expecting he can show more after a summer window and pre-season.

[amadjambo]

He's not going anywhere so we all have to hope that he spectacularly turns this around over the Summer. Stranger things have happened I suppose.

[Buffalo Bill]

But a huge part of the point of the Levein system was that we wouldn't have to do this every time!  Is this just a one-time thing to recalibrate the system, or is that out the window?

 

But I'm not defending Levein here. Hearts have ****** up big time in the last two, probably three windows. The squad is rotten and needs gutting. You have to look to Aberdeen (sadly) to see that consistency over time and good, solid recruitment can at least get you (in the current climate) 2nd in the league and into cup finals.

 

BB my leaps of faith need more evidence base or I'd be struck off

 

I can't prove anything here. I'm just hoping Hearts fans don't walk away from supporting their club. We're hitting bumps on the road just now but we need to hang in there and get ready to support a new look team in a new look Tynecastle. I just have a good feeling Cathro will come good next season...

 

...and if he doesn't, we know what will happen.

[JALBO]

Looks like there's been a wee "Berra Bounce" in the poll this evening.........

[red]

Absolute garbage

 

So they all turned shite as soon as he walked through the door.. there isn't a player in our squad who wouldn't walk into Scotlands bottom 6 teams.. the excuses being made for this idiot are incredible

What part is garbage? Did we have a full pre-season? How many "friendly" games did we play and has arguably our three best players been out for a good period in Patterson and Souttar, Djoum was out too with ACN and is KNACKERED!

 

We didn't have one decent recognised striker when Cathro walked through the door, he done very well to persuade Budge to sign Isma for ?? and done well to persuade Isra to come, to sign 2 quality strikers in a transfer window would have been a miracle.

 

As for Jamie Walker? He is either injured? Completely burnt out or wanting out for whatever reason

 

Care to inform me what part of that isn't true or garbage

[Joe Hearts]

Although there's been a swing I'm surprised this is still as close. See what happens after the weekend eh!

[Jambof3tornado]

Although there's been a swing I'm surprised this is still as close. See what happens after the weekend eh!

The seasons over. Has been for a while.

[kingantti1874]

What part is garbage? Did we have a full pre-season? How many "friendly" games did we play and has arguably our three best players been out for a good period in Patterson and Souttar, Djoum was out too with ACN and is KNACKERED!

 

We didn't have one decent recognised striker when Cathro walked through the door, he done very well to persuade Budge to sign Isma for ?? and done well to persuade Isra to come, to sign 2 quality strikers in a transfer window would have been a miracle.

 

As for Jamie Walker? He is either injured? Completely burnt out or wanting out for whatever reason

 

Care to inform me what part of that isn't true or garbage

every team has their issues with injury etc.. the fact is week in week out we can put out a stronger team than 75% of the league and we get better results than 8% of the league. Other than oshaniwa we do not have s player who wouldn't stroll into bottom 6.. even bloody sowah who Hamilton were desperate to keep.. more than a few would stroll into st Johnstone and Patrick..

 

Take your walker example. Oh poor wee Ian ... coincidentally Jamie walker has turned rubbish as soon as he walks through the door.. have you ever thought Cathro's tactics, instruction or lack motivational skills are responsible for walkers form? Djoum is really tired.. he played a handful of games at AFCON - less than he would have had to if we had a decent cup run.. and tzilios.. so why hasn't he dropped him then.. excuses excuses excuses.. to date cathro has done a bad job..

 

Apparently he says the right things - I'll say he said nothing more than 90% of this board would say..

 

Anyway - lets see what happened at the weekend.

[Nobreath]

Prepared still to give him to December. If things haven't changed by then he has to go.

 

if the signings follow the current pattern I will change my vote though.

That's where I am and that is me being ridiculously reasonable with him. I have very little confidence that things will change, but by December if his team is still failing, all excuses by his cheer leaders will have expired and he'll have to go.

[Nobreath]

Prepared still to give him to December. If things haven't changed by then he has to go.

 

if the signings follow the current pattern I will change my vote though.

That's where I am and that is me being ridiculously reasonable with him. I have very little confidence that things will change, but by December if his team is still failing, all excuses by his cheer leaders will have expired and he'll have to go.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Looks like there's been a wee "Berra Bounce" in the poll this evening.........

Indeed.

 

Pathetic really. Take a view and stick to it.

[kila]

Indeed.

 

Pathetic really. Take a view and stick to it.

 

 

Meh, I'm on the fence. After Sunday I really wanted him to go, but if recruitment is good and already underway then IC/AP leaving would set us back.

[Mollo]

I've no issue with folk changing a vote - I went from stay to go

 

Mind I am shocked that sice the last result circa 40-50 more votes for him to stay

[Boab]

The one thing that has stuck out in Derek McInnes's post match interviews is when he talks of motivation and players enjoying themselves even in the warm ups. He's said it three or four times in the last few months.

Point i'm making is you can see it on the park and the players are responding to their manager and the results are there for all to see.

Our players are not all crap....i'm pretty sure of that so the problem is pretty simple.

He has one window to get this right but ST sales may force the club's hand.

An interesting two months ahead.

[Jodami]

Interesting how the poll moves one way when we are not playing and another during and after games.

[Expert on the subject]

Time to hound him out  I'm afraid  in the next three game Cathro must go chants -  you don't know what you are doing 

This may counter the staged meet the fans events, this club deserve better than him dragging us down

 

Doesn't look or sound  good but that's what gets things done in football , do nothing and you are to blame for the decline.

 

By all means offer him a job where he is suited with kids development , but a manager , or leader ? NEVER

[Expert on the subject]

Meh, I'm on the fence. After Sunday I really wanted him to go, but if recruitment is good and already underway then IC/AP leaving would set us back.

 

Interested why you think a better coach with better players would set us back ? 

 

Cathro has made good players look bad this year as lesser players and teams have nullified his "work"   

If you keep Cathro the faces may change but the results wont.

He is a self confessed one trick pony with a trick that doesn't work

[Hansel]

I changed my vote back to stay. Kinda feel hopeful that if he can bring in the right kind of player over the summer things can change.

[Mr Sifter]

Time to hound him out I'm afraid in the next three game Cathro must go chants - you don't know what you are doing

This may counter the staged meet the fans events, this club deserve better than him dragging us down

 

Doesn't look or sound good but that's what gets things done in football , do nothing and you are to blame for the decline.

 

By all means offer him a job where he is suited with kids development , but a manager , or leader ? NEVER

Time to hound him out lol.

 

Expert on **** all.

[Boab]

Time to hound him out lol.

 

Expert on **** all.

Indeed.

 

Not the greatest idea either to stage three protests when they'll be a few hundred, at best, at those games.

 

Not very well thought out....must do better !

[Watt-Zeefuik]

Okay, so let's say the club gives him until December.

 

Then, if it's as bad as it's been and we're barely keeping our heads above relegation, and we fire him, does the *next* manager also get a free pass until the end of the year, at which point we go through *another* window so the next manager can get "his players" in?

 

How is this not taking a very big risk that we're going to be very bad for a while to come?

[bauld willie]

I changed my vote back to stay. Kinda feel hopeful that if he can bring in the right kind of player over the summer things can change.

Just like he did over the last transfer window. I would also point out that he had utterly failed to motivate first team players who were there before he arrived.

 

There is no room in football for sympathy,sticking your head in the sand or anything other than a successful team on the park.

[soonbe110]

Fair point.. forgot he existed.

Noring?

[bauld willie]

Okay, so let's say the club gives him until December.

 

Then, if it's as bad as it's been and we're barely keeping our heads above relegation, and we fire him, does the *next* manager also get a free pass until the end of the year, at which point we go through *another* window so the next manager can get "his players" in?

 

How is this not taking a very big risk that we're going to be very bad for a while to come?

The chances are we would be 6th, 7th or 8th enduring utter mediocrity and the same people who are relying on blind faith just now, would then say, just give him the next window or that other classic, it's not a good time to change a manager.

 

Almost every other team gets a new manager bounce when a new man comes in, we collapsed under Cathro.

 

We need to unite behind a common cause again, that requires a change in management. A decent name, a few good signings and every one of our new seats would, be sold, including the bulk of the Roseburn

[amadjambo]

One thing I'll say that could give us hope, is that Jack Ross took ages to get St Mirren to click. And now they have clicked they are a different team, possibly the best team in their league at the moment.

[hughesie27]

Interesting shift back towards him staying. He was 100 votes ahead in GO a couple of days ago.

[Cruyff Turn]

Okay, so let's say the club gives him until December.

 

Then, if it's as bad as it's been and we're barely keeping our heads above relegation, and we fire him, does the *next* manager also get a free pass until the end of the year, at which point we go through *another* window so the next manager can get "his players" in?

 

How is this not taking a very big risk that we're going to be very bad for a while to come?

That is the risk but unfortunately that is how it is quite clearly going to be if you read between the lines.

 

He won't get until December, no chance.

 

If he isn't showing signs of progress within his first 10 games after having a new team, 6 weeks pre season and friendlies to prepare then the pressure will be too much for the board and they'll have to sack him or he'll get lynched.

 

We need to accept that he's going nowhere, it isn't going to make it any better. We need to just go with it and hope to **** that it is just a case of not having the right players and it will take time.

 

Far from convinced but we've not really got another option but to get behind the team for next term.

[socrates82]

Okay, so let's say the club gives him until December.

 

Then, if it's as bad as it's been and we're barely keeping our heads above relegation, and we fire him, does the *next* manager also get a free pass until the end of the year, at which point we go through *another* window so the next manager can get "his players" in?

 

How is this not taking a very big risk that we're going to be very bad for a while to come?

 

At the height of the Robbie Neilson Oot nonsense some of us did point out that changing manager mid season was risky and advocated getting behind him until the end of the season. We are where we are.

 

Perhaps supporting the team and manager is a better option for a change?

[Baldy61]

Interesting how the poll moves one way when we are not playing and another during and after games.

Quite simple really. Cathro talks a good game during the week. Its only on matchdays he is absolute horse sh**.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

At the height of the Robbie Neilson Oot nonsense some of us did point out that changing manager mid season was risky and advocated getting behind him until the end of the season. We are where we are.

 

Perhaps supporting the team and manager is a better option for a change?

Pity our board didn't hold him to his contract then...

[Thomaso]

At the height of the Robbie Neilson Oot nonsense some of us did point out that changing manager mid season was risky and advocated getting behind him until the end of the season. We are where we are.

 

Perhaps supporting the team and manager is a better option for a change?

Well bully for you - the 'one up manship' from some on here is tiresome.

[Watt-Zeefuik]

At the height of the Robbie Neilson Oot nonsense some of us did point out that changing manager mid season was risky and advocated getting behind him until the end of the season. We are where we are.

 

Perhaps supporting the team and manager is a better option for a change?

 

FFS I was 100% behind Robbie and very sad to see him leave.  Check my posting history if you don't believe me.

 

From what I can tell the Robbie Oot brigade didn't become the Cathro Oot brigade, they became the Levein Oot brigade.  I want Cathro out because I think Neilson showed that the Levein system can work, but Cathro isn't the man to be doing it.

[Mollo]

Quite simple really. Cathro talks a good game during the week. Its only on matchdays he is absolute horse sh**.

 

I can't be the only one who thinks Cathro's talking is even more dire than his results? I want the guy to succeed. But his patter is cringeworthy.

[Bring Back Paulo Sergio]

FFS I was 100% behind Robbie and very sad to see him leave. Check my posting history if you don't believe me.

 

From what I can tell the Robbie Oot brigade didn't become the Cathro Oot brigade, they became the Levein Oot brigade. I want Cathro out because I think Neilson showed that the Levein system can work, but Cathro isn't the man to be doing it.

That's exactly how things are imo but I'm inclined to want Levein out now as he's allowing, potentially our worst manager in history to have a chance of ruining another season.

 

If Robbie was here he would have this team in shape. We'd still be up there beside Rangers. We would sit deeper and give our defence more support. Not doing the complete opposite of what your squad are capable of. Not continue to be an arrogant and allow all the good work of a previous manager to be in vain. It's bordering on disrespectful.

 

Stop comparing the fans reaction the same as with Neilson. One of them deserve the flak

[deejtee]

I foresee much debate next season as to what constitutes success. I predict we will sign better and make some improvement in results, which would not be hard, but not enough to convince everyone one way or another. The debate will restart next season unless we are fantastic or down the bottom. As usual for some the Hibs results will be key and for certain others it will still be the belief that our current strategy will in time put Celtic in their place.

[Nookie Bear]

I foresee much debate next season as to what constitutes success. I predict we will sign better and make some improvement in results, which would not be hard, but not enough to convince everyone one way or another. The debate will restart next season unless we are fantastic or down the bottom. As usual for some the Hibs results will be key and for certain others it will still be the belief that our current strategy will in time put Celtic in their place.

 

I think we will sign decent players over the summer (Berra is a good start) and that the squad will look decent by the time we kick off.

 

But Cathro will fail to get the best out of them and will be on his way by Christmas, following an inconsistent W6 D6 L6 kind of record.