Iain Cathro ongoing Poll and discussion Thread

[Just joe]

Well said, mars

LOL

[kingantti1874]

It was a better effort after we conceded so some praise where it is due. But it has to be tempered - it highlights how poor the effort has been previously, 8 defeats in 9 games, 1 goal away from home since Feb, 25% win record and now given motherwell win today I think we are 12th in the form league since he walked through the door.. If we'd started the season with cathro and maintained this form we have been relegated.. Not even a playoff.. Down.. Completely unacceptable

 

Will take more than some effort which should be mandatory against the worst rangers team in living memory to turn it around for him..

[siegementality]

It was a better effort after we conceded so some praise where it is due. But it has to be tempered - it highlights how poor the effort has been previously, 8 defeats in 9 games, 1 goal away from home since Feb, 25% win record and now given motherwell win today I think we are 12th in the form league since he walked through the door.. If we'd started the season with cathro and maintained this form we have been relegated.. Not even a playoff.. Down.. Completely unacceptable

Will take more than some effort which should be mandatory against the worst rangers team in living memory to turn it around for him..

If we'd started the season with Cathro we wouldn't have had this team. Just like we won't have this team next year. Despite what Cathro might have said in the press at the meet the management event Cathro and McPhee mentioned - in a roundabout way - a left back, a centre half, a midfielder, a forward and two wingers. Straight away that is six players - and there will probably be more - so I doubt there will be many (probably Isma, Hughes and Cowie) from the current team who will be starters next year.

[kingantti1874]

If we'd started the season with Cathro we wouldn't have had this team. Just like we won't have this team next year. Despite what Cathro might have said in the press at the meet the management event Cathro and McPhee mentioned - in a roundabout way - a left back, a centre half, a midfielder, a forward and two wingers. Straight away that is six players - and there will probably be more - so I doubt there will be many (probably Isma, Hughes and Cowie) from the current team who will be starters next year.

If he can't get the best / maximum from this team what makes you think he will be able to achieve that with new players..

 

A Head coach job is to get the most from the assets he has no?

[Zibi]

You would do well to keep a lower profile than the one you currently have.

Haha why?

[davemclaren]

Thats what i thought originally. However I was sure I read somewhere that another one had been elected.

Of course he has to restate the view of the board publicly but that doesn't stop him putting his view to the board privately.

Otherwise it is just a closed shop if nobody on the board ever airs their views.

Only one that I am aware off and I'm sure he does air his views at board meetings.

[Bazzas right boot]

If he can't get the best / maximum from this team what makes you think he will be able to achieve that with new players..

 

A Head coach job is to get the most from the assets he has no?

 

Look, your mind is made up.

 

You are righting off a coach that started with us late in December as an unplanned change.

From this he signed players that have largely disappointed.

Our form has been poor.

 

NO ONE is disputing this.

 

What some think, that given time, a full window, his own long term signings he will be a success.

 

You disagree, you won't even consider this. Fair enough.

 

Give it up, at least this time you are on topic with your negative comments.

 

We do get the point that its been poor and it might not improve no matter what under Cathro.

 

We all get that, some like to consider my former scenario.

 

As a side note, he's not leaving, so you are going to give yourself a hard summer by continually banging your drum, rather than moving on and giving the guy the chance that he is going to get.

[Baldy61]

It was a better effort after we conceded so some praise where it is due. But it has to be tempered - it highlights how poor the effort has been previously, 8 defeats in 9 games, 1 goal away from home since Feb, 25% win record and now given motherwell win today I think we are 12th in the form league since he walked through the door.. If we'd started the season with cathro and maintained this form we have been relegated.. Not even a playoff.. Down.. Completely unacceptable

Will take more than some effort which should be mandatory against the worst rangers team in living memory to turn it around for him..

Actually thought his record was bad but not as bad as stated. Shocking stats however you look at..

[Just joe]

Haha why?

Think.

[Ray Gin]

It was a better effort after we conceded so some praise where it is due. But it has to be tempered - it highlights how poor the effort has been previously, 8 defeats in 9 games, 1 goal away from home since Feb, 25% win record and now given motherwell win today I think we are 12th in the form league since he walked through the door.. If we'd started the season with cathro and maintained this form we have been relegated.. Not even a playoff.. Down.. Completely unacceptable

 

Will take more than some effort which should be mandatory against the worst rangers team in living memory to turn it around for him..

 

Utterly pathetic record. A complete embarrassment no matter how anyone tries to spin it.

[kingantti1874]

Look, your mind is made up.

 

You are righting off a coach that started with us late in December as an unplanned change.

From this he signed players that have largely disappointed.

Our form has been poor.

 

NO ONE is disputing this.

 

What some think, that given time, a full window, his own long term signings he will be a success.

 

You disagree, you won't even consider this. Fair enough.

 

Give it up, at least this time you are on topic with your negative comments.

 

We do get the point that its been poor and it might not improve no matter what under Cathro.

 

We all get that, some like to consider my former scenario.

 

As a side note, he's not leaving, so you are going to give yourself a hard summer by continually banging your drum, rather than moving on and giving the guy the chance that he is going to get.

So a poster making loads of posts reiterating his point of view over and over and over asks another poster to stop reiterating his point over and over and over.. That's a bit ironic don't you think..

 

As usual when the facts are pointed out the apologists carefully dodge them.

 

Ps - late December?

[kingantti1874]

If he can't get the best / maximum from this team what makes you think he will be able to achieve that with new players..

 

A Head coach job is to get the most from the assets he has no?

No one going to answer this no?

[Buffalo Bill]

I'm honestly lost on why people think he has the ability to turn this around. What gives you any glimmer of hope BB that Cathro is the man to turn what has been one of the worst hearts team in easily 15 years, no passion, no sign of progress, bizarre team selections and Cathro himself who clearly talks the talk but doesn't translate onto the park and into the players.

 

For one, I have an underlying belief that a change of transfer policy will improve the situation, plus the summer window will allow Cathro to build his own team. I also happen to think that Cathro, as a forward-thinking, intelligent coach will get it right eventually. And two, it's not just a matter of me having belief in Cathro: it's about giving a guy a proper chance. A new coach, especially one so highly-rated, should be given a chance.

 

Totally disagree that Cathro will ever be a good manager. Just have to agree to disagree. However anyone who signs of #Teamcathro ain't going to be taken seriously as being objective.

 

I'm being fair, but I've never claimed to being objective. My stance of Cathro is entirely subjective, so I'm happy to clear that up for you. 

 

 

Trouble is i think Craig Levein would be unable to sack Cathro without taking responsibility himself.

 

If Cathro ends up being sacked later on this year, Levein's position should be under threat. Furthermore, I can't see another Under 20s coach getting promoted in those circumstances.

 

 

Though I'm fairly confident it won't come to that, I accept that it might.

[Mid Calder Jambo]

This man Cathro is making a laughing stock of our famous and generally well respected club.  Any other manager that did not have the support at board level that he has would have been away long before now.  Regardless of who's team or who's players it is, he will not make it as a manager, that has been clear from day one.  The sooner he does the right thing and falls on his sword, the sooner this club starts to recover.  if that means casualties further up the management tree then so be it. 

 

Whilst I will renew my season ticket without question, I do not look forward to next season because on the evidence of Cathro's reign so far he has no chance of motivating and driving success at our club.  As I have said in other threads if Cathro worked in any other performance business, as I do, he would have been away long before now.  Be a man Ian and go now before you ruin this club any more.

[Zibi]

Think.

Please divulge Joe.

[siegementality]

If he can't get the best / maximum from this team what makes you think he will be able to achieve that with new players..

A Head coach job is to get the most from the assets he has no?

IMO the two players that have performed the best in Cathros time are Isma and Hughes (despite injury). Both of those players are Cathro/McPhee influenced signings. I have no doubt when they sign the players they want, rather than what the could get (hence the short term deals of the majority of those signed in January), we will see what they are capable of.

 

What some people seem to forget is that the original 5 year plan was to introduce a playing style that would run through the club, meaning the transition from the development league would be easier because the young players actually played to the same model. In reality we lost our was under Neilson and the style resorted to hoofball, albeit, we were getting better results. That is not a style of football I want to watch.

 

Maybe the memory fades but I certainly remember that we were knocked out the Europa League - over two legs - by a team who finished third in the Maltese league. Three weeks later we were knocked out the League Cup by St. Johnstone. In the league we were beaten by Celtic, St Johnstone and Kilmarnock. We drew with Aberdeen, Ross County, ICT, St Johnstone and Hamilton. So let's not kid ourselves on that we were Barcelona before Cathro arrived.

[kingantti1874]

Maybe BB will answer it based on the post above.. No one of stable mind thinks we have the worst squad in the league right?

 

So if cathro is failing to achieve with this squad why do we think he will be able to achieve the maximum from new players.

[kingantti1874]

IMO the two players that have performed the best in Cathros time are Isma and Hughes (despite injury). Both of those players are Cathro/McPhee influenced signings. I have no doubt when they sign the players they want, rather than what the could get (hence the short term deals of the majority of those signed in January), we will see what they are capable of.

 

What some people seem to forget is that the original 5 year plan was to introduce a playing style that would run through the club, meaning the transition from the development league would be easier because the young players actually played to the same model. In reality we lost our was under Neilson and the style resorted to hoofball, albeit, we were getting better results. That is not a style of football I want to watch.

 

Maybe the memory fades but I certainly remember that we were knocked out the Europa League - over two legs - by a team who finished third in the Maltese league. Three weeks later we were knocked out the League Cup by St. Johnstone. In the league we were beaten by Celtic, St Johnstone and Kilmarnock. We drew with Aberdeen, Ross County, ICT, St Johnstone and Hamilton. So let's not kid ourselves on that we were Barcelona before Cathro arrived.

Thanks for the considered response.. He also influenced tziolis, martin and avoltolidis but will let that slide.

 

We were certainly not Barcelona.. But we were not the worst in the league either clearly..

 

Actually I want hearts to play hearts way, hard, not getting bullied, 100% effort, fast paced one gouch, players with ability to beat a man, midfielders making late runs into the box, ability to change style if required, if we are forced back the ability to hit on the break..

 

I do not like slow pointless possession.. Passes for the sake of it.. So few teams in the world execute it well.. More real Madrid.. Less barca..

[Buffalo Bill]

 

So if cathro is failing to achieve with this squad why do we think he will be able to achieve the maximum from new players.

 

Because next season will be an Ian Cathro squad.

 

I'm look forward to improvement. I'm not expecting us to be world-beaters; just a good team that gives 100%, that is attack minded and organised.

 

 

[siegementality]

Maybe BB will answer it based on the post above.. No one of stable mind thinks we have the worst squad in the league right?

So if cathro is failing to achieve with this squad why do we think he will be able to achieve the maximum from new players.

I gave an answer, not one you are going to agree with but hey ho.

 

IMO you are taking a pretty simplistic view of football management. If it was really as simple as you make it to be why would managers/head coaches who have 'failed' at one club be employed by another?

[Buffalo Bill]

Actually I want hearts to play hearts way, hard, not getting bullied, 100% effort, fast paced one gouch, players with ability to beat a man, midfielders making late runs into the box, ability to change style if required, if we are forced back the ability to hit on the break..

 

I do not like slow pointless possession.. Passes for the sake of it.. So few teams in the world execute it well.. More real Madrid.. Less barca..

 

 

Not only do I like this but I think you'd get on well with Ian Cathro.

[siegementality]

Thanks for the considered response.. He also influenced tziolis, martin and avoltolidis but will let that slide.

We were certainly not Barcelona.. But we were not the worst in the league either clearly..

Actually I want hearts to play hearts way, hard, not getting bullied, 100% effort, fast paced one gouch, players with ability to beat a man, midfielders making late runs into the box, ability to change style if required, if we are forced back the ability to hit on the break..

I do not like slow pointless possession.. Passes for the sake of it.. So few teams in the world execute it well.. More real Madrid.. Less barca..

All three you mentioned had not played for weeks/months prior to arriving. All three had the look of classic CL signings. I certainly don't blame Cathro for those signings.

 

Well maybe give Cathro the chance to play that way by signing the players he wants rather than the hoofball the players were playing before he arrived. There were glimpses of it today, and we played with 10 men. Whilst Cathros detractors won't give him any credit as they were playing against "the worst rangers team in history" what they also need to remember is the worst rangers team in history are in third place, even if we were better than them they'd be sitting in fourth, hardly a poor team.

[kingantti1874]

All three you mentioned had not played for weeks/months prior to arriving. All three had the look of classic CL signings. I certainly don't blame Cathro for those signings.

 

on this aspect Your assumption is incorrect.. direct quotes from cathro and McPhee as the time of signing leave no doubt who identified, scouted and requested the signing of these players ..

 

Anyway I'm done for the night.. all I'll say is agree with my opinion, don't agree - no one will be happier than me if we get to December and your able to ram it down my throat.. honestly.. but we must demand success and ensure that everyone coming into this club understands and can achieve expectation..

[siegementality]

on this aspect Your assumption is incorrect.. direct quotes from cathro and McPhee as the time of signing leave no doubt who identified, scouted and requested the signing of these players ..

Anyway I'm done for the night.. all I'll say is agree with my opinion, don't agree - no one will be happier than me if we get to December and your able to ram it down my throat.. honestly.. but we must demand success and ensure that everyone coming into this club understands and can achieve expectation..

Not an assumption. It's what is was told. Anyway I am more than happy to see any direct quotes that you have saying Cathro and McPhee identified all the signings. Every article I have read says "we" and included in that "we" would be CL.

[Hearts_fan]

. 

[davemclaren]

Not an assumption. It's what is was told. Anyway I am more than happy to see any direct quotes that you have saying Cathro and McPhee identified all the signings. Every article I have read says "we" and included in that "we" would be CL.

Why could 'we' not mean Cathro and McPhee?

[siegementality]

Why could 'we' not mean Cathro and McPhee?

Why should is exclusively mean them? We know how the recruitment policy worked before they arrived. Neilson identified the positions, CL identified the players. Whilst I think that is changing - only the feeling I got listening to McPhee in particular at the management event who said the process was being "modernised" - I don't believe it had changed at that time. They had only been there a matter of weeks and McPhee said "they" didn't even have a list of available CH's when Souttar got injured. Doesn't sound like they had control of the process at that time, albeit they made the recommendations for Isma and Hughes, obviously.

[Bring Back Paulo Sergio]

At least siege admitted he would rather be entertained than see Hearts win.

[siegementality]

At least siege admitted he would rather be entertained than see Hearts win.

Aye, that's what I said right enough.

[Bring Back Paulo Sergio]

Aye, that's what I said right enough.

That's exactly what you said. I knew that already but kudos for being honest.

[Livvyjambo]

50% want him out after 6 months tells you enough

[davemclaren]

Why should is exclusively mean them? We know how the recruitment policy worked before they arrived. Neilson identified the positions, CL identified the players. Whilst I think that is changing - only the feeling I got listening to McPhee in particular at the management event who said the process was being "modernised" - I don't believe it had changed at that time. They had only been there a matter of weeks and McPhee said "they" didn't even have a list of available CH's when Souttar got injured. Doesn't sound like they had control of the process at that time, albeit they made the recommendations for Isma and Hughes, obviously.

Jings, that's all a bit of a stretching of the facts to be honest.

[siegementality]

That's exactly what you said. I knew that already but kudos for being honest.

I take it you are referring to:

 

In reality we lost our was under Neilson and the style resorted to hoofball, albeit, we were getting better results. That is not a style of football I want to watch.

 

If that is the case where EXACTLY did I say that I didn't want Hearts to win? Now given you said "that's exactly what you said" it should be easy enough for you to find that exact statement. Happy looking.

[socrates82]

This is Alec Miller all over, hibs mate just sent this

'We're all just praying that you stick with Cathro'

 

That says it all!!!!!!

I would 100% rather have levein, budge and cathro than lennon and petrie! We're trying something different and have a long term vision. Hibs stumble from one manager to the next, with no youth structure to speak of and an exceptionally limited squad for the premiership, even compared to our current squad.

[siegementality]

Jings, that's all a bit of a stretching of the facts to be honest.

Is it. Well you can tell me the facts then. What are they?

 

P.s. Thee were lots of facts in my post.

[Nucky Thompson]

 A narrow defeat to a crap Rangers boosts his support

[davemclaren]

Is it. Well you can tell me the facts then. What are they?

P.s. Thee were lots of facts in my post.

The fact is that we signed some players. The rest is your opinion.

[socrates82]

I take it you are referring to:

 

In reality we lost our was under Neilson and the style resorted to hoofball, albeit, we were getting better results. That is not a style of football I want to watch.

 

If that is the case where EXACTLY did I say that I didn't want Hearts to win? Now given you said "that's exactly what you said" it should be easy enough for you to find that exact statement. Happy looking.

Thats the dilemma facing coaches like neilson and cathro in scotland. Persist with trying to play possession, technical football or take a pragmatic approach and try that as much as possible but recognise when you need to just pick up points playing ugly. Neilson ended up playing too cautiously, especially when we had little thrat up front, but did still pick up points.

 

Cathro will face the same dilemma unless we can sign players capable of the style he wants to play.

[kingantti1874]

Why should is exclusively mean them? We know how the recruitment policy worked before they arrived. Neilson identified the positions, CL identified the players. Whilst I think that is changing - only the feeling I got listening to McPhee in particular at the management event who said the process was being "modernised" - I don't believe it had changed at that time. They had only been there a matter of weeks and McPhee said "they" didn't even have a list of available CH's when Souttar got injured. Doesn't sound like they had control of the process at that time, albeit they made the recommendations for Isma and Hughes, obviously.

Oh come on, McPhee went to watch Martin personally and was quoted saying he was a top target and the sort of player to turn 1 into 3 .. also recommended tziolis after he played against NI where he advised that they made special plans for him..

 

to defend your position on cathro you've somehow convinced yourself that good signings are down to cathro and bad one season were down to levein..

[siegementality]

Jings, that's all a bit of a stretching of the facts to be honest.

To help you out a bit, the fact from my post are:

 

We know how the recruitment policy worked before they arrived. Neilson identified the positions, CL identified the players.

 

McPhee in particular at the management event who said the process was being "modernised".

 

They had only been there a matter of weeks and McPhee said "they" didn't even have a list of available CH's when Souttar got injured.

 

They made the recommendations for Isma and Hughes,

[siegementality]

The fact is that we signed some players. The rest is your opinion.

See my post above. There's an awful lot of facts that were taken from a post that was meant to be my opinion. Feel free to tell me otherwise though.

[socrates82]

To help you out a bit, the fact from my post are:

 

We know how the recruitment policy worked before they arrived. Neilson identified the positions, CL identified the players.

 

McPhee in particular at the management event who said the process was being "modernised".

 

They had only been there a matter of weeks and McPhee said "they" didn't even have a list of available CH's when Souttar got injured.

 

They made the recommendations for Isma and Hughes,

I'm pretty sure anyone at the club can recommend a player, including other players and coaches.

[Ray Gin]

 

We know how the recruitment policy worked before they arrived. Neilson identified the positions, CL identified the players.

 

 

Wrong. Neilson identified what types of players he wanted. The scout would find and recommend players based on this. Neilson would then identify which players he wanted and Levein would try and sign them.

 

Source? Robbie Neilson.

[davemclaren]

See my post above. There's an awful lot of facts that were taken from a post that was meant to be my opinion. Feel free to tell me otherwise though.

Craig Levein identifying the players isn't a fact.

 

Your opinion on the meaning of 'they' in the statement is an opinion.

[Hearts007]

The poll is very close

[siegementality]

Craig Levein identifying the players isn't a fact.

Your opinion on the meaning of 'they' in the statement is an opinion.

It's not an opinion. CL is the head of the footballing side of things. To suggest he wouldn't have a say in who is required/being signed is frankly ludicrous. He is in charge of all things football. The fact that he will have the best knowledge of the finances of the club - of the playing side - means ultimately he will be identifying which players are being signed, regardless of who sticks the list of names in front of him.

[davemclaren]

It's not an opinion. CL is the head of the footballing side of things. To suggest he wouldn't have a say in who is required/being signed is frankly ludicrous. He is in charge of all things football. The fact that he will have the best knowledge of the finances of the club - of the playing side - means ultimately he will be identifying which players are being signed, regardless of who sticks the list of names in front of him.

I never said he didn't have a say ( you've changed your tack here by the way ) I don't believe only he identifies players.

[deejtee]

Got free tickets to the rugby. Bit of a change but I see this thread continues unabated with the Cathro defence league in full flow deflecting all flak. Sounds like today was a relative success for our coaches mind you.

[siegementality]

I never said he didn't have a say ( you've changed your tack here by the way ) I don't believe only he identifies players.

I've not changed my tack. Ultimately I didn't think I needed to do a flowchart on the whole process. Your initial question was why "we" couldn't mean just Cathro and McPhee. Given you've just answered your own question I.e. Levein has a say, I'll just have to console myself that that's an hour of my life I'll never get back.

[davemclaren]

I've not changed my tack. Ultimately I didn't think I needed to do a flowchart on the whole process. Your initial question was why "we" couldn't mean just Cathro and McPhee. Given you've just answered your own question I.e. Levein has a say, I'll just have to console myself that that's an hour of my life I'll never get back.

Levein might suggest a player but the ultimate decision is the head coaches. Sorry about your lost hour.