aussieh Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 Honestly you started off this thread seeming quite level headed and resonable to debate with. after about 10 pages you transformed into a raving teeth gnashing imbecile. I don't recall anyone saying that. I do remember personally saying post Brexit the for an independent Scotland within the EU to trade with rUK we would be subject to tariffs and limits. Those would be imposed by the EU not the rUK, Ever action has an equal or counter reaction Rudeboy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tartan Trump Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 The only people who ever use the "too poor, too wee' line are nationalists. I think that is because you truly believe that and would rather be part of the UK, able to blame Westminster for everything, rather than wanting to take full responsibility. A bit of self projection going on here ? It is unionists who do not want to take full responsibility. Still clinging on to mummy's hand and begging for pocket money. Afraid to put on the big boy pants and make our own decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nookie Bear Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 A bit of self projection going on here ? It is unionists who do not want to take full responsibility. Still clinging on to mummy's hand and begging for pocket money. Afraid to put on the big boy pants and make our own decisions. WTF right back atcha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussieh Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 Honestly you started off this thread seeming quite level headed and resonable to debate with. after about 10 pages you transformed into a raving teeth gnashing imbecile. I don't recall anyone saying that. I do remember personally saying post Brexit the for an independent Scotland within the EU to trade with rUK we would be subject to tariffs and limits. Those would be imposed by the EU not the rUK, I'll keep MacGlashen in a box when possible. Hopefully others will do the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussieh Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 WTF right back atcha.Kez and Ruth are a total embarrassment, Nooks. Cmon even you can see that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nookie Bear Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 Kez and Ruth are a total embarrassment, Nooks. Cmon even you can see that. They are all embarrassing. AlL parties. I'm talking about this Nationalist trait of saying "ooh. ..they keep saying we are too wee and too poor" It's only Nationalists who suggest that. Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arnold Rothstein Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 What's the difference? Is there actually one? 'Yes' is a positive word. 'No' isn't. Might not sound that important but I think it's easier to campaign on a 'yes' message and I agree that should be given to the unionist side in any second referendum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor jambo Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 A bit of self projection going on here ? It is unionists who do not want to take full responsibility. Still clinging on to mummy's hand and begging for pocket money. Afraid to put on the big boy pants and make our own decisions. I wear big boy pants, pay really big boy tax, and am not dependent on Westminster for anything. I am not anti-independence as such I am merely concerned that my big boy pants will get pulled down to prop up our "freedom" - if someone would kindly tell me how much this freedom is going to cost and for how long ( now into year 9 of a pay freeze) I would be really grateful Because there are only 2 ways that our budget hole is being filled Tax hikes, or service cuts The government needs money from someone to spend, and they seem to forget its not theirs...... And I also need to know if my savings are going to be converted into "Scottish currency" that would promptly devalue wiping out my kids future housing deposits Those who have nothing will lose nothing Those who have lots will lose nothing The rest of us are on the hook for this But happy to hear who will pay for everything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussieh Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 They are all embarrassing. AlL parties. I'm talking about this Nationalist trait of saying "ooh. ..they keep saying we are too wee and too poor" It's only Nationalists who suggest that. Why? It's sarcasm, nooks, directed at the folk who do nothing but talk Scotland and Scots down. Lamont was the starter for ten, then you have mindsets like trapper that ridicule Scotland about currency and make believe deficit, but ignore the state of the pound and ruks debt and deficit(excluding what's gonnae fill the black hole from trade with the EU),but Scotland has to have fine details before Indy while the UK has no details but will just conquer the world again while we burn in hell. See this Commonwealth trade thing that place we deserted back in the 70s, do you think they're gonnae let the UK dominate them again.No chance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doogz Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 I think May was bang on by accusing that Ginger rancid cow of using politics as a game. It is very clear to me (maybe not others) that the rancid cow knew full well her request for indyfail2 would not be granted thus winning support with the fanatics. Horrible horrible horrible little Nationlaist cow that she is. Suspect I'm wasting my time - but you don't help your argument using language like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Lyon Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 So we are 30 months on since the last referendum and the 600m page Brigadoon white paper and the SNP are only now getting round to deciding what currency an independent Scotland would use post independence. I hear Swinney is reported to have said if they lose the next vote they will press for a third. Will that mean in a new generation, a material change or some other criteria yet to be thought up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roxy Hearts Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 They are all embarrassing. AlL parties. I'm talking about this Nationalist trait of saying "ooh. ..they keep saying we are too wee and too poor" It's only Nationalists who suggest that. Why? Well they do keep banging on about that GERS nonsense. The people living in Scotland will work to make it better if we become independent. I don't see how that can make any intellectual sense when governed from London. EU will not govern us either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seymour M Hersh Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 Is not fair that remaining in the Union should be on the YES side of the ballot paper this time? And 1st generation Scots living and working in rUK get to vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i8hibsh Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 Suspect I'm wasting my time - but you don't help your argument using language like this. You are wasting your time. For me it is way beyond the point of me accepting the SNP as having a democratic right to exist. I have zero respect for them and all their fanatics that follow. It is this simple, they are hell bent on ruining my way of life and all that myself and my family have worked so hard for. They are bringing nothing but shame to me and are taking away (if not completely done already) my national pride that once was so effervescent. They have made us as a country, utterly hate one another and things are at an all time low being Scottish. Note, not at an all time low as being ?shackled? to a Union but because of their relentless bigotry. Their chip on their shoulder grows every day and it is weighing them down and they are dragging the rest of the country down with them. I ******* despise them in their entirety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seymour M Hersh Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 Did you vote to be a part of NATO? I don't recall the referendum on that issue... Irrelevent nonsense pans. The poster said he wanted to spend the least money possible on defence so who will he rely on to defend the country in the event of attack? Or will we be so irrelevant as an independent country people will look at as as an Andorra or Luxembourg nonentity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor jambo Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 Well they do keep banging on about that GERS nonsense. The people living in Scotland will work to make it better if we become independent. I don't see how that can make any intellectual sense when governed from London. EU will not govern us either. LIke we're not working to make it better now? That's odd....I must hallucinate those lovely brown enveloped from HMRC that takes away barrows of cash to be spent on healthcare, education, roads, defence and so on. Spent by the SNP I might add...... but post indy suddenly they will spend it better? So what have they been doing this last 10 years- collecting it and hiding it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambos are go! Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 What's the difference? Is there actually one? IIRC there was much squabling about the issue on who got the YES box amongst other things before the last Referendum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphonseCapone Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 'Yes' is a positive word. 'No' isn't. Might not sound that important but I think it's easier to campaign on a 'yes' message and I agree that should be given to the unionist side in any second referendum. Interesting. The complication would be the associations from last time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i8hibsh Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 Irrelevent nonsense pans. The poster said he wanted to spend the least money possible on defence so who will he rely on to defend the country in the event of attack? Or will we be so irrelevant as an independent country people will look at as as an Andorra or Luxembourg nonentity. We are gonna be a'body's pal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Don Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 LIke we're not working to make it better now? That's odd....I must hallucinate those lovely brown enveloped from HMRC that takes away barrows of cash to be spent on healthcare, education, roads, defence and so on. Spent by the SNP I might add...... but post indy suddenly they will spend it better? So what have they been doing this last 10 years- collecting it and hiding it? Been topping up their own pockets by the sounds of the mount of expense claims and ongoing investigations. I believe Midlothian council were/are being investigated for fraudulent use of monies whilst MP Owen Thompson was in charge. It's all part of the game though. Mhairi Black that stalwart of socialism, flying 1st class business class on BA between London and Scotland. It's all part of the game though Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arnold Rothstein Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 Interesting. The complication would be the associations from last time. Yes which I expect would be a barrier to it changing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambos are go! Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 Been topping up their own pockets by the sounds of the mount of expense claims and ongoing investigations. I believe Midlothian council were/are being investigated for fraudulent use of monies whilst MP Owen Thompson was in charge. It's all part of the game though. Mhairi Black that stalwart of socialism, flying 1st class business class on BA between London and Scotland. It's all part of the game though Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk I dont think there is first or Business Class on these flights. One Class only but MPs usually manage to sit together at the front from my experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hasselhoff Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 http://www.itv.com/news/update/2015-04-13/sturgeon-a-vote-for-snp-is-not-a-vote-for-independence/ Turns out if you voted snp due to the statement in 2015 you were lied to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussieh Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 Been topping up their own pockets by the sounds of the mount of expense claims and ongoing investigations. I believe Midlothian council were/are being investigated for fraudulent use of monies whilst MP Owen Thompson was in charge. It's all part of the game though. Mhairi Black that stalwart of socialism, flying 1st class business class on BA between London and Scotland. It's all part of the game though Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk You wouldn't have MPs flying to London to represent us under independence. Oh and GAP is actually in Paisley, the reason it's not a city. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 Been topping up their own pockets by the sounds of the mount of expense claims and ongoing investigations. I believe Midlothian council were/are being investigated for fraudulent use of monies whilst MP Owen Thompson was in charge. It's all part of the game though. Mhairi Black that stalwart of socialism, flying 1st class business class on BA between London and Scotland. It's all part of the game though Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk But she doesnt fly first class. None of the MP's do. Why do you continue to post utter lies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tartan Trump Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 Joke? Every post you have made you have either argued or attacked someone or used name calling. Clearly it's your own seethe that's affecting your judgement. Step back from the computer for a little while listen to some of the Tartan lads classics and relax before you have a cranial explosion. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk You called me an angry bitter wee man, then in your very next post accused me of name calling. You are all over the shop here. Perhaps you could use the forums ignore function if my posts are upsetting you and judging by your tear stained diatribe above, they clearly are. Thanks x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reaths17 Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 Wilson has retracted those comments, he was misquoted. Austerity is we'll have with a Tory government for the foreseeable. You don't know what an iScotland will look like at this stage, neither do I. what a heap of shit. do you think with independence we would just leave our share of debt with the english. our economy is worse than the rest of the uk now, austerity would be a blessing post independence after the costs of separation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor jambo Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 what a heap of shit. do you think with independence we would just leave our share of debt with the english. our economy is worse than the rest of the uk now, austerity would be a blessing post independence after the costs of separation. I'm not sure the cost of separation would be that high...... as the value of everything in England that has been state built is sooooo much higher than here- we own 10 % of all their stuff, which is worth far more than 10 % of all our state owned stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruyff Turn Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 what a heap of shit. do you think with independence we would just leave our share of debt with the english. our economy is worse than the rest of the uk now, austerity would be a blessing post independence after the costs of separation. Do you think we wouldn't be getting a share of all UK assets? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deesidejambo Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 Interesting. The complication would be the associations from last time. It should be Union or Independence. Yes/No has a slight inherent bias. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reaths17 Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 But she doesnt fly first class. None of the MP's do. Why do you continue to post utter lies? your mate elvis does, when he's not in the chippy. lets here the truth, how will the economy work, what currency will we use, will we be under SNP austerity for the rest of our lives, how much will separation cost etc etc etc. you want to see how brexit works before we accept it and have an independence vote once we have all the facts before we leave it. tell us all how independence works before we vote. none of that white paper trash either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tartan Trump Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 I wear big boy pants, pay really big boy tax, and am not dependent on Westminster for anything. I am not anti-independence as such I am merely concerned that my big boy pants will get pulled down to prop up our "freedom" - if someone would kindly tell me how much this freedom is going to cost and for how long ( now into year 9 of a pay freeze) I would be really grateful Because there are only 2 ways that our budget hole is being filled Tax hikes, or service cuts The government needs money from someone to spend, and they seem to forget its not theirs...... And I also need to know if my savings are going to be converted into "Scottish currency" that would promptly devalue wiping out my kids future housing deposits Those who have nothing will lose nothing Those who have lots will lose nothing The rest of us are on the hook for this But happy to hear who will pay for everything Has Westminster stopped dishing out service cuts and tax hikes to fill their own considerably larger hole ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reaths17 Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 Do you think we wouldn't be getting a share of all UK assets? no, that would be a trade off, they keep our percentage of some crap in england and we keep their percentage of something crap here but the debt isn't gonna disappear, not even in fruitloop land. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor jambo Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 Do you think we wouldn't be getting a share of all UK assets? Indeed - I think we could dump most of the debt The historical debt is not the issue. Its the funding going forwards. And this whole "short term pain" thing- no-one likes pain Everyone screams - from the bottom to the top There is so much waste.. Ayrshire Education has lost ?600,000 this year because not enough kids are eating their "free school meals" - for that read paid for by taxpayers, because the kids are too busy leaving to buy chips 'n'gravy from the van, Presumably they aren't the P1-3's as they have no choice , which leaves it as those who qualify for free meals who are not going. Give someone something for nothing and they don't care about it. Free food? Nah Free prescriptions- abused to hell Free bus passes - used by the really wealthy as much as anyone Free TV licenses - same Free meals for all P1-3 - no matter how minted your folks are. but it aint free....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reaths17 Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 I'm not sure the cost of separation would be that high...... as the value of everything in England that has been state built is sooooo much higher than here- we own 10 % of all their stuff, which is worth far more than 10 % of all our state owned stuff we would have to create a department for everything centrally controlled, basically a new governing base. buildings, more ersole politicians/bureacrats. the untangling of everything is gonna cost a fortune, calculating the percentages, lawyers and pen pushers are gonna do well from our taxes, while services get worse than they already are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwindonJambo Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 Indeed - I think we could dump most of the debt The historical debt is not the issue. Its the funding going forwards. And this whole "short term pain" thing- no-one likes pain Everyone screams - from the bottom to the top There is so much waste.. Ayrshire Education has lost ?600,000 this year because not enough kids are eating their "free school meals" - for that read paid for by taxpayers, because the kids are too busy leaving to buy chips 'n'gravy from the van, Presumably they aren't the P1-3's as they have no choice , which leaves it as those who qualify for free meals who are not going. Give someone something for nothing and they don't care about it. Free food? Nah Free prescriptions- abused to hell Free bus passes - used by the really wealthy as much as anyone Free TV licenses - same Free meals for all P1-3 - no matter how minted your folks are. but it aint free....... Spot on. A scary number of people don't quite grasp that what is free to them at the point of delivery costs the tax payer. "Oh, I'll get lots of them - they're free!" Anything that's free is usually abused and costs the tax payer dearly. Most if not all of these things would be out the window in no time post independence as economic reality hit home, which it would do very quickly. I'm not saying things wouldn't stabilise longer term but the early years would be very, very tough and a sobering and rude wake up call for many. On the plus side it would force the government to address the huge long term benefits-entitlement culture which sadly exists in much of the West of Scotland (notably my native Lanarkshire) and parts of South Fife, Dundee and other localities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruyff Turn Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 no, that would be a trade off, they keep our percentage of some crap in england and we keep their percentage of something crap here but the debt isn't gonna disappear, not even in fruitloop land. utter mince. The debt comes under the UK Treasury and the Bank of England, they would have to offer us a Currency Union to make us take our share of the debt. If we don't get our share of the assets, the UK gets no repayment of debt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwindonJambo Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 And 1st generation Scots living and working in rUK get to vote. That would enable me to vote but I don't see how you could justify it tbh and I don't see that happening. It certainly affects us as it could mean us suddenly becoming foreigners in our own (wider) country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 Interesting article on someone who worked on the Better Together side in 2014. http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/scottish-referendum-theresa-may-no-sturgeon-big-mistake-a7634116.html Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coconut doug Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 Been topping up their own pockets by the sounds of the mount of expense claims and ongoing investigations. I believe Midlothian council were/are being investigated for fraudulent use of monies whilst MP Owen Thompson was in charge. It's all part of the game though. Mhairi Black that stalwart of socialism, flying 1st class business class on BA between London and Scotland. It's all part of the game though Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Been topping up their own pockets by the sounds of the mount of expense claims and ongoing investigations. I believe Midlothian council were/are being investigated for fraudulent use of monies whilst MP Owen Thompson was in charge. It's all part of the game though. Mhairi Black that stalwart of socialism, flying 1st class business class on BA between London and Scotland. It's all part of the game though Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk SNP expenses lower than the previous Labour MP's http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/snp-demands-apology-from-labour-over-expenses-error-1-4302707 Just more rubbish. MPs are not responsible for and have no power over councils. They are most definitely not "in charge" as you suggest. Midlothian Council does not even have an SNP majority. Has any SNP member been found guilty of any "fraudulent use of monies" or similar recently? Making things up though, It's all part of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacDonald Jardine Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 Interesting article on someone who worked on the Better Together side in 2014. http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/scottish-referendum-theresa-may-no-sturgeon-big-mistake-a7634116.html Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro It makes a few fair points, but what nobody picks up on is that the Scottish Parliament has no jurisdiction to vote on constitutional matters. It would be more beneficial if they got on with doing what they were elected to do. Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tartan Trump Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 SNP expenses lower than the previous Labour MP's http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/snp-demands-apology-from-labour-over-expenses-error-1-4302707 Just more rubbish. MPs are not responsible for and have no power over councils. They are most definitely not "in charge" as you suggest. Midlothian Council does not even have an SNP majority. Has any SNP member been found guilty of any "fraudulent use of monies" or similar recently? Making things up though, It's all part of the game. Indeed. Unionists swinging wildly and barely managing to land a glancing blow. Accusations of fraud and not a peep about the 12 tories including the solitary Scots MP currently under police investigation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankblack Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 It makes a few fair points, but what nobody picks up on is that the Scottish Parliament has no jurisdiction to vote on constitutional matters. It would be more beneficial if they got on with doing what they were elected to do. Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk If the SNP didn't bitch constantly about Independence they would have nothing to say. Running the country (badly) always means they can blame big bad Westminster and get the Brigadoon brigade something to focus their attention away from how badly they are doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankblack Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 Indeed. Unionists swinging wildly and barely managing to land a glancing blow. Accusations of fraud and not a peep about the 12 tories including the solitary Scots MP currently under police investigation. My local MP in Edinburgh West is still under police investigation and had the SNP party whip withdrawn. Weren't there two other MPs/MSPs at least also under police investigation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coconut doug Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 http://www.itv.com/news/update/2015-04-13/sturgeon-a-vote-for-snp-is-not-a-vote-for-independence/ Turns out if you voted snp due to the statement in 2015 you were lied to. A vote for the SNP is not necessarily a vote for Indy, even some of the Unionists understand that, that's why some of them vote SNP. A change in material circumstances though and a new referendum happens. This is in accordance with the manifesto. If you don't want independence vote No, but give it a rest with your unsubstantiated and ill conceived anti-SNP grievances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pans Jambo Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 Irrelevent nonsense pans. The poster said he wanted to spend the least money possible on defence so who will he rely on to defend the country in the event of attack? Or will we be so irrelevant as an independent country people will look at as as an Andorra or Luxembourg nonentity. Aye it was but it highlights the nonsense spouted on here about defence. Scotland cant have its own Armed forces to protect our borders and waters? We wont have any need to go and invade anyone so unlikely to need fleets of aircraft carriers and several squadrens of jets etc. As a percentage of GDP it's unlikely to cost more than a single percent or two. I can see small bands of Scots armed forces involved in assisting in humanitarian emergencies abroad but no bombing bairns from afar. In sensible terms, we share waters and airspace with Ireland, England, N.I. & Wales so it would be reasonable to expect that defence of our air/land/waters would be a shared responsibility with the other 4 countries to a small extent. The land and waters surround Scotland are strategically important to NATO. Even if we are not in NATO you can be sure the yanks and the rUK will be sneaking about there with their submarines etc. I dont even know why this is being discussed. Scotland can and will look after its own interests militarily (Its own interests being the land mass and the air and sea around it). Serious question. Who TF would be looking to invade Scotland? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor jambo Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 A vote for the SNP is not necessarily a vote for Indy, even some of the Unionists understand that, that's why some of them vote SNP. A change in material circumstances though and a new referendum happens. This is in accordance with the manifesto. If you don't want independence vote No, but give it a rest with your unsubstantiated and ill conceived anti-SNP grievances. I agree. I would like a non-SNP Independence argument But there isn't an alternative vision coming forward If someone could come up with a fiscal policy. An aim to be a republic. Some kind of taxation and spending plan A real vision, not an SNP manifesto that would be good, and I might go for it But the SNP are so tight as a unit that is not possible I find it bizarre that they are the ONLY party that has no dissent, no "rebels", no radicals. Its stifling the debate into SNP vs everyone else ( the greens I'm ignoring) I might go for it if Nicola allowed people in her own party to speak up There MUST be some who don't want independence- just as there are SNP voters who don't Criticise the Conservatives if you will- but they have factions who are vocal , rebel and speak even against their own party on big things When has there ever been a back bench rebellion in the SNP? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deesidejambo Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 Aye it was but it highlights the nonsense spouted on here about defence. Scotland cant have its own Armed forces to protect our borders and waters? We wont have any need to go and invade anyone so unlikely to need fleets of aircraft carriers and several squadrens of jets etc. As a percentage of GDP it's unlikely to cost more than a single percent or two. I can see small bands of Scots armed forces involved in assisting in humanitarian emergencies abroad but no bombing bairns from afar. In sensible terms, we share waters and airspace with Ireland, England, N.I. & Wales so it would be reasonable to expect that defence of our air/land/waters would be a shared responsibility with the other 4 countries to a small extent. The land and waters surround Scotland are strategically important to NATO. Even if we are not in NATO you can be sure the yanks and the rUK will be sneaking about there with their submarines etc. I dont even know why this is being discussed. Scotland can and will look after its own interests militarily (Its own interests being the land mass and the air and sea around it). Serious question. Who TF would be looking to invade Scotland? On your last sentence. Nobody. So by logic Scotland wouldn't need an Army at all. That will save a few quid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacDonald Jardine Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 I agree. I would like a non-SNP Independence argument But there isn't an alternative vision coming forward If someone could come up with a fiscal policy. An aim to be a republic. Some kind of taxation and spending plan A real vision, not an SNP manifesto that would be good, and I might go for it But the SNP are so tight as a unit that is not possible I find it bizarre that they are the ONLY party that has no dissent, no "rebels", no radicals. Its stifling the debate into SNP vs everyone else ( the greens I'm ignoring) I might go for it if Nicola allowed people in her own party to speak up There MUST be some who don't want independence- just as there are SNP voters who don't Criticise the Conservatives if you will- but they have factions who are vocal , rebel and speak even against their own party on big things When has there ever been a back bench rebellion in the SNP? The 79 Group? Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 SNP expenses lower than the previous Labour MP's http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/snp-demands-apology-from-labour-over-expenses-error-1-4302707 Just more rubbish. MPs are not responsible for and have no power over councils. They are most definitely not "in charge" as you suggest. Midlothian Council does not even have an SNP majority. Has any SNP member been found guilty of any "fraudulent use of monies" or similar recently? Making things up though, It's all part of the game. I was going to find that so thanks for saving me the trouble. It's absolutely astounding the level of either stupidity or downright ignorance that causes people to post such factually incorrect stuff on here. I don't know if the read it, get told it or attempting to bait posters with it. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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