More Tory lies

[Boab]

9 minutes ago, Adam_the_legend said:

That’s true, the white paper was the greatest piece of fantasy fiction since Harry Potter came out. 
 

Politicians lie and spin. All of them. All of the time. 

 

” Keeping one's word can also be dangerous since experience shows that those who do not keep their word get the better of those who do ! “

 

Niccolo dei Machiavelli.

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

18 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

Correct, but we had one to leave and said no so crying about now is hollow having done largely nowt to advance the vision since then.

 

I want(ed) Scotland to be independent as I saw it as the chance for us to go it alone as a united, brave and modern sovereign country. I've always hated the insular, divided, poor me culture in Scotland and put that down to the effect the UK had on us. It isn't the UK though, it's Scotland. For all the UK's failings the only people who can make Scotland better are the people living in Scotland. We were given that chance and blew it. Since that day I've realised the small minded, insular folk with a chip on their shoulder are actually by and large those who are the vocal supporters of independence and rather than selling a  vision of what a united, modern and proud independent Scotland could look like, they just whine and look for someone else to blame whilst never looking inwardly; to the extent that on here they're now trying to paint themselves as akin to oppressed slaves...despite having been given the key to the shackles and instead dropping them down a drain. Even now, the UK is in total meltdown with Boris and Brexit yet where is the alternative? Where's the plan? Where's the date for another referendum? Nowhere, because it's easier to just blame someone else.

 I remember on the Indy night at a mates house and we were having a drink and clearly anticipating a Yes. The comedown was awful. I recall there was a miserable feeling at Tynie on the Saturday too . Cant recall who we played but the atmosphere was fairly muted.  Apart from the mad Billy bouys , Ive lost the passion for it now. 

[Spitonastranger]

Just now, Ron Burgundy said:

I get that but my concern is that we don't know what constraints the newly Independent government regardless of party will be working under due to independence. The SNP want independence but have no interest after that. That concerns me.

It is possible to despise both these parties and hope for better than either can offer.

An independant Scotland will and must be a better alternative to whats on offer down the road. 

[Joey J J Jr Shabadoo]

9 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

What would be the first 3 things you'd do to make Scotland better that are currently prevented by Westminster?

 

And nothing in Scotland can be improved without independence? Not one thing?

I can't see a thing that wouldn't be improved. Nothing.

Hopefully we'll get to ditch the monarchy,too.

[jack D and coke]

13 minutes ago, Dazo said:

At least Salmond actually wanted independence. Nippy sweetie just wants the power and to continually fight for independence. Other than woe is me she hasn’t got the brains or team behind her to sell it to the country. She can’t sell how great this country will be, she spends her time telling us about the big bad boys in London. 

The longer it goes the more I think they’re all in this for their career. For them to have been in power this long and still not really have a vision or a plan to get people who are in the middle behind it is pretty damning tbh. 
Margo MacDonald said it was about going to WM to settle up not settle in. It’s hard to not think they see this as a career and not delivering on - let’s face it - what the majority of people who vote for them actually want. 
The likes of Pete Wishart..what has he ever done to further this? Absolutely nothing. 
Salmond you knew wanted it and whether you agree with his white paper or whatever else he at least tried to make a case. 

[jack D and coke]

16 minutes ago, Adam_the_legend said:

That’s true, the white paper was the greatest piece of fantasy fiction since Harry Potter came out. 
 

Politicians lie and spin. All of them. All of the time. 

I didn’t read it but I accept that people think that. That’s fair enough but at least it was a plan or a vision of sorts. 
There’s nothing from this lot until it comes round to elections and they start beating the drum again. They have done nothing. Your last point is obviously spot on too lol. 

[Taffin]

Just now, Joey J J Jr Shabadoo said:

I can't see a thing that wouldn't be improved. Nothing.

Hopefully we'll get to ditch the monarchy,too.

 

That wasn't the question. You surely know the top things you want improved that Westminster are preventing? 

 

If we ever get it I think you're in for a shock. You won't wake up the morning after with a magic panacea pill. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 minute ago, jack D and coke said:

The longer it goes the more I think they’re all in this for their career. For them to have been in power this long and still not really have a vision or a plan to get people who are in the middle behind it is pretty damning tbh. 
Margo MacDonald said it was about going to WM to settle up not settle in. It’s hard to not think they see this as a career and not delivering on - let’s face it - what the majority of people who vote for them actually want. 
The likes of Pete Wishart..what has he ever done to further this? Absolutely nothing. 
Salmond you knew wanted it and whether you agree with his white paper or whatever else he at least tried to make a case. 

 

[I P Knightley]

6 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

What would be the first 3 things you'd do to make Scotland better that are currently prevented by Westminster?

 

And nothing in Scotland can be improved without independence? Not one thing?

This post needs framing and put above the fireplace.

 

I listened to an excellent pro-EU speaker pre-Brexit referendum ask something very similar before debunking all the arguments made by pro-Brexiteers with great authority and basic facts. Too late, wrong forum, wrong speaker - whatever; people had made their minds up based on media hype and chips on their shoulders. 

 

 

[jack D and coke]

1 minute ago, Taffin said:

 

That wasn't the question. You surely know the top things you want improved that Westminster are preventing? 

 

If we ever get it I think you're in for a shock. You won't wake up the morning after with a magic panacea pill. 

You also won’t wake up in an independent

scotland which is what I laugh at when I read peoples opinions. It’ll take a few years to iron things out and come to agreements. 
People make out you vote Yes and the next day you don’t have a pound in your pocket etc and everything running oot  

Everything would have to be firmed up. I Ed get some things we wanted and some things we didn’t. 

[Boab]

7 minutes ago, Ron Burgundy said:

I get that but my concern is that we don't know what constraints the newly Independent government regardless of party will be working under due to independence. The SNP want independence but have no interest after that. That concerns me.

It is possible to despise both these parties and hope for better than either can offer.

Why would they have no interest after independence ? That doesn't make sense. 

Sure, it's a popular belief that it is their raison d'être but they would still have massive support in an Independent Scotland. 

If nothing else, it could create a much better government.

[Dazo]

5 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

The longer it goes the more I think they’re all in this for their career. For them to have been in power this long and still not really have a vision or a plan to get people who are in the middle behind it is pretty damning tbh. 
Margo MacDonald said it was about going to WM to settle up not settle in. It’s hard to not think they see this as a career and not delivering on - let’s face it - what the majority of people who vote for them actually want. 
The likes of Pete Wishart..what has he ever done to further this? Absolutely nothing. 
Salmond you knew wanted it and whether you agree with his white paper or whatever else he at least tried to make a case. 

Absolutely agree. The heads of the snp are happy to Bob along keeping the good fight going until they retire with a nice pension. A slim yes victory would be a shitstorm for Sturgeon to have to deal with, I don’t think she fancy’s it. 

[Taffin]

1 minute ago, jack D and coke said:

You also won’t wake up in an independent

scotland which is what I laugh at when I read peoples opinions. It’ll take a few years to iron things out and come to agreements. 
People make out you vote Yes and the next day you don’t have a pound in your pocket etc and everything running oot  

Everything would have to be firmed up. I Ed get some things we wanted and some things we didn’t. 

 

Very true.

 

It would be much like Brexit has been but hopefully with competent honest people in charge in order to make it better and of course with (imo) more noble aims. To try and bring it back on topic (apologies, mainly me taking it off) we could learn a lot from the Tory lies about how not to do it.

[Japan Jambo]

14 hours ago, Costanza said:

I remember watching it at the time and Gove almost laughed at how ridiculous he sounded.

It was like "you know I'm lying, I know I'm lying buy hey it's a laugh".

This Tory Government debase democracy more than Gove does a cistern.

Funny story about Gove and toilets;  there was a book on Brexit that quoted friends of his who doubted his leadership ambitions as "this is a man who had to be stopped unblocking a loo with a hoover".

 

 Not sure why I'm reminded of the excuse given here;

 

https://metro.co.uk/2021/12/05/bomb-squad-called-after-doctors-find-wwii-shell-stuck-up-mans-bum-15710207/

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 minute ago, Dazo said:

Absolutely agree. The heads of the snp are happy to Bob along keeping the good fight going until they retire with a nice pension. A slim yes victory would be a shitstorm for Sturgeon to have to deal with, I don’t think she fancy’s it. 

Yep 

 

2 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

Very true.

 

It would be much like Brexit has been but hopefully with competent honest people in charge in order to make it better and of course with (imo) more noble aims. To try and bring it back on topic (apologies, mainly me taking it off) we could learn a lot from the Tory lies about how not to do it.

Its a futile debate anyway as ill be a no again. My last word and back on topic.

[I P Knightley]

9 minutes ago, Joey J J Jr Shabadoo said:

I can't see a thing that wouldn't be improved. Nothing.

Hopefully we'll get to ditch the monarchy,too.

This, in my opinion, is why the leave campaign failed. Everything was vague and tried to appeal to vague notions of national pride without saying "X doesn't work within the current set up but we'll be able to do Y". The nonsense chat about an independent Scotland's currency illustrated this perfectly: "We'll keep Sterling" (Bank of England), "Eh, hud oan a minute, we need to talk." "We'll have the Euro"; (ECB), "Sorry, were you talking to us?"

 

To veer back on topic, it's similar to the Tories 'pledges' to "level up"; there's nothing to illustrate what levelling up would look like. We won't know whether it's happened or not when a Tory tells us they've done a good job with it. No business would be run this way (successfully and sustainably) but we're prepared to put up with it from the people making the most important decisions about our lives and livelihoods?

[Lone Striker]

10 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

The longer it goes the more I think they’re all in this for their career. For them to have been in power this long and still not really have a vision or a plan to get people who are in the middle behind it is pretty damning tbh. 
Margo MacDonald said it was about going to WM to settle up not settle in. It’s hard to not think they see this as a career and not delivering on - let’s face it - what the majority of people who vote for them actually want. 
The likes of Pete Wishart..what has he ever done to further this? Absolutely nothing. 
Salmond you knew wanted it and whether you agree with his white paper or whatever else he at least tried to make a case. 

Well done. You got there in the end.  A politician with power seldom acts like he/she did when asking for your vote at an election.   Any of them.  Any party.      Remember the old saying  "Power corrupts, but absolute power corrupts absolutely".

[Japan Jambo]

20 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Anyway, back to the thread topic....

 

This just contextualises the level of nonsense this mob are up to 

 

 

 

Cummings is playing with Boris like a cat with a mouse. I'm sure he has a kill shot somewhere in his notebook but for now he seems content with a boot in the arse one week and a kneecapping the next. The quicker Boris is defenestrated the better as this can and will end in only one way with him out on the pavement looking for a new gaff to decorate.

 

 

[Cade]

Cumming's drip drip drip release is genius.

 

"drip" - new claim

"that never happened"

"drip" - proves it did happen

"it wasn't that bad"

"drip" - shows it to be that bad

"it's not a big deal"

"drip" shows it to be a big deal

"it's not my fault"

"drip" - shows it was your fault

"I didn't mean it"

"drip" - proves you did

 

Masterfully done.

Giving the shitebags just enough rope to hang themselves with each time, and they fall for it, every time.

 

He knows them too well.

They could have just completely confessed to everything right at the start, even the stuff we didn't know about yet.

Get ahead of the game, deal with one big burst of outrage then try to move the news cycle on.

But due to being pathological liars and narcissists, they've allowed themselves to make it last for weeks, tying themselves in knots with layer upon layer of lies, each being unpicked almost as soon as they've uttered it.

 

[Roxy Hearts]

2 hours ago, The Mighty Thor said:

She appears to be being proven right in her judgement of that shower by the day.

 

You only have to look at them all shuffling out onto Twitter/Radio/TV to trash their reputations and morals to defend a man that has been sacked for lying from just about every job he ever had.

 

I think Angela Rayner is great. It's good to see a strong, opinionated woman at the heart of front line politics. I struggle to see how anyone could have an issue with that. 

Is she Nippy though? 🤣

[manaliveits105]

Sorted

[Lone Striker]

21 minutes ago, Joey J J Jr Shabadoo said:

I can't see a thing that wouldn't be improved. Nothing.

Hopefully we'll get to ditch the monarchy,too.

There's loads of things in Scotland that need improving though.   More affordable housing, more NHS staff, more police, better funding for essential council services, etc         There's a concerning disconnect between the SG and the Scottish voters currently  - the SG say they're constrained by Westminster funding rules, yet seem determined to avoid raising more taxes from Scottish businesses and people,  imo for political reasons. Keep blaming devolution.

 

 In an independent Scotland, would we (the voters) not expect to pay more tax in order to achieve these better outcomes ?   I would, and would gladly pay more tax if I could see a SG with radical ambition to improve the country.  

 

Take the FoH analogy.  Whats the point of moaning that Hearts don't have enough money to compete at the top end of the league when we (the fans) have  got the means of giving extra funding voluntarily to the club ?  If Hearts came out and said they were looking for funding to build our own training facility, most fans would  gladly contribute if they could afford to.    For me, I love Scotland and would take the same view if it was to help  advance our country.

 

[sadj]

30 minutes ago, Boab said:

Why would they have no interest after independence ? That doesn't make sense. 

Sure, it's a popular belief that it is their raison d'être but they would still have massive support in an Independent Scotland. 

If nothing else, it could create a much better government.

Although things have changed with having devolution therefore the SNP requires policies as opposed to a straight we want independence approach. The SNP is still made up of people from all different parties and political beliefs. Would that change going forward after Independence? Absolutely , some would move to each party as the politics align with their beliefs beyond Independence. 
 

The SNP would shrink , it would evolve and tbh you’d prob see a large gain in Lib Dem and Greens share of the vote

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 minute ago, Lone Striker said:

There's loads of things in Scotland that need improving though.   More affordable housing, more NHS staff, more police, better funding for essential council services, etc         There's a concerning disconnect between the SG and the Scottish voters currently  - the SG say they're constrained by Westminster funding rules, yet seem determined to avoid raising more taxes from Scottish businesses and people,  imo for political reasons. Keep blaming devolution.

 

 In an independent Scotland, would we (the voters) not expect to pay more tax in order to achieve these better outcomes ?   I would, and would gladly pay more tax if I could see a SG with radical ambition to improve the country.  

 

Take the FoH analogy.  Whats the point of moaning that Hearts don't have enough money to compete at the top end of the league when we (the fans) have  got the means of giving extra funding voluntarily to the club ?  If Hearts came out and said they were looking for funding to build our own training facility, most fans would  gladly contribute if they could afford to.    For me, I love Scotland and would take the same view if it was to help  advance our country.

 

Good post 

[Cruyff]

1 minute ago, JamesM48 said:

Good post 

Are you identifying as a Scottish Socialist today, James? 

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

Just now, Cruyff said:

Are you identifying as a Scottish Socialist today, James? 

 

I'm a socialist deep down really. I think you'll find ive always generally been very supportive of Labour irrespective of Starmer and certainly been a supporter of Corbyn's Labour which is sadly defunct.  I do throw in a bit of right wing views now and then. I'm NOT a tree. 

[I P Knightley]

5 minutes ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

 Not sure why I'm reminded of the excuse given here;

 

https://metro.co.uk/2021/12/05/bomb-squad-called-after-doctors-find-wwii-shell-stuck-up-mans-bum-15710207/

Is that a job for a CRACK commando unit?

[sadj]

2 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Good post 

Is it though. If you werent so obsessed with arselicking the other side of the road now you’d possibly realise that within what he said “political reasons” are behind it as is devolution. To say raise business rates , tax them when they could move business down south and not have that problem and be welcomed in with open arms for “political reasons” makes it very difficult. Cant tax Scottish voters because that money (as I understand) goes to Westminster then we’d only get a small part back. 
 

Saying in an independent Scotland hed pay more tax for better things is great. Thats not doable at the moment. So in real terms you are hamstrung by devolution. 
 

ffs James 😑

[JudyJudyJudy]

40 minutes ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

 Not sure why I'm reminded of the excuse given here;

 

https://metro.co.uk/2021/12/05/bomb-squad-called-after-doctors-find-wwii-shell-stuck-up-mans-bum-15710207/

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 minute ago, sadj said:

Is it though. If you werent so obsessed with arselicking the other side of the road now you’d possibly realise that within what he said “political reasons” are behind it as is devolution. To say raise business rates , tax them when they could move business down south and not have that problem and be welcomed in with open arms for “political reasons” makes it very difficult. Cant tax Scottish voters because that money (as I understand) goes to Westminster then we’d only get a small part back. 
 

Saying in an independent Scotland hed pay more tax for better things is great. Thats not doable at the moment. So in real terms you are hamstrung by devolution. 
 

ffs James 😑

What are Scotland's tax powers? - BBC News

[Boris]

15 minutes ago, Lone Striker said:

There's loads of things in Scotland that need improving though.   More affordable housing, more NHS staff, more police, better funding for essential council services, etc         There's a concerning disconnect between the SG and the Scottish voters currently  - the SG say they're constrained by Westminster funding rules, yet seem determined to avoid raising more taxes from Scottish businesses and people,  imo for political reasons. Keep blaming devolution.

 

 In an independent Scotland, would we (the voters) not expect to pay more tax in order to achieve these better outcomes ?   I would, and would gladly pay more tax if I could see a SG with radical ambition to improve the country. 

 

 

The SG could raise income tax in Scotland, but I'm guessing that they would rather have the full armoury of economic powers that independent states have, e.g. the ability to borrow, set corporation taxes (i think these are a WM domain?), set immigration policy, entice foreign people to come here and work, thus more taxpayers, thus allowing income tax to be held at a decent rate.  Then there is the potential for better trade with the EU.

 

So, in a rather broadbrush way, they probably see themselves as fighting with one arm tied behind their back, economically speaking.

 

 

[sadj]

8 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

What are Scotland's tax powers? - BBC News

 

6 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

The SG could raise income tax in Scotland, but I'm guessing that they would rather have the full armoury of economic powers that independent states have, e.g. the ability to borrow, set corporation taxes (i think these are a WM domain?), set immigration policy, entice foreign people to come here and work, thus more taxpayers, thus allowing income tax to be held at a decent rate.  Then there is the potential for better trade with the EU.

 

So, in a rather broadbrush way, they probably see themselves as fighting with one arm tied behind their back, economically speaking.

 

 

Put more eloquently than I did without the need for a pathetic gif and the first article you can google

If it was black and white it would be great , its not don’t base opinions on ideology that isnt there

Edited January 13, 2022 by sadj

[Konrad von Carstein]

48 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Yep 

 

Its a futile debate anyway as ill be a no again. My last word and back on topic.

"No again" thought you were yes at the time?

 

 

[Cade]

"I DEMAND A CAST IRON GUARANTEE OF ECONOMIC PROSPERITY OVER THE NEXT 25 TO 30 YEARS OR I'M VOTING NO"

 

[Boris]

Just now, Cade said:

"I DEMAND A CAST IRON GUARANTEE OF ECONOMIC PROSPERITY OVER THE NEXT 25 TO 30 YEARS OR I'M VOTING NO"

 

Would look good on the side of a bus...

[Konrad von Carstein]

Just now, Boris said:

Would look good on the side of a bus...

[JudyJudyJudy]

3 minutes ago, sadj said:

 

Put more eloquently than I did without the need for a pathetic gif and the first article you can google

If it was black and white it would be great , its not don’t base opinions on ideology that isnt there

oh what's biting your shite the day. Jesus. Cheer up. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

4 minutes ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

"No again" thought you were yes at the time?

 

 

I was hence being miserable about the result. 7 years is a long time in politics. Never mind a week 

[sadj]

5 minutes ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

"No again" thought you were yes at the time?

 

 

Much as I dont mind James , he has also stated on occasion he likes winding up posters (crap trolling of them) so does that post surprise you

[sadj]

2 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

oh what's biting your shite the day. Jesus. Cheer up. 

I can genuinely see you making that face 🤣

[Cruyff]

5 minutes ago, Cade said:

"I DEMAND A CAST IRON GUARANTEE OF ECONOMIC PROSPERITY OVER THE NEXT 25 TO 30 YEARS OR I'M VOTING NO"

 

4 minutes ago, Boris said:

Would look good on the side of a bus...

[JudyJudyJudy]

5 minutes ago, sadj said:

I can genuinely see you making that face 🤣

Im a bit more pretty Id say.

 

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

7 minutes ago, sadj said:

Much as I dont mind James , he has also stated on occasion he likes winding up posters (crap trolling of them) so does that post surprise you

How do you know if its trolling or not ? Thats the question really .  

[Konrad von Carstein]

9 minutes ago, sadj said:

Much as I dont mind James , he has also stated on occasion he likes winding up posters (crap trolling of them) so does that post surprise you

No, not really... I read his stuff and will engage now and again... But when he's trying to derail threads with some shite or other I ignore him... Unless I've attended a work function and had a few libations. 

[Konrad von Carstein]

5 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Im a bit more pretty Id say.

 

 

Seeing as you admit to looking like a Trump/Bojo love child ah hae ma doots

[Boab]

Anyhoo...just been reminded that Scotland's chief medical advisor resigned about the same time as the PM with dodgy genes hosted parties !

She went to her second home with her family !

Go now, Johnson !

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 minutes ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

hae ma doots

What does that mean?  I never said I looked like Trump !  and the BJ reference was from a posh group of rugby lads a few years ago in a pub who tried to tussle my hair etc and started calling me " Boris".....absolute fuds but no bad on the eye though so i didn't mind being manhandled really.  

[WorldChampions1902]

4 hours ago, coconut doug said:

 

I think you misunderstood the point. It was about the British establishment tearing itself to bits. Something along the lines of the party of law and order pretending not to understand what laws mean and thinking the laws don't apply to them. Watching some of them try to scramble on to the moral high ground and others try to defend the indefensible. Partying long into the night to deliver the largest Covid death toll in Western Europe and counting the illegally acquired proceeds from your sponsors PPE contracts while toasting the mother of a nonce. Makes you proud to be British.

[coconut doug]

2 hours ago, Taffin said:

 

Woe is Scotland. If only someone would give them a democratic free vote to extricate themselves from the tyranny of the UK.

 

Oh wait.

 

I asked you why it was offensive to compare the plight of slaves with that of Scots or other exploited groups. What has the above answer to so with that?

 

Are you suggesting that descendants of slaves are not oppressed now in the land of uncle Tom or that they should just vote themselves into a better country?

[Konrad von Carstein]

1 minute ago, JamesM48 said:

What does that mean?  I never said I looked like Trump !  and the BJ reference was from a posh group of rugby lads a few years ago in a pub who tried to tussle my hair etc and started calling me " Boris".....absolute fuds but no bad on the eye though so i didn't mind being manhandled really.  

I don't read your posts and memorise them, was maybe a throwaway line you wrote ages ago.

 

I have my doubts...