Boris Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 At least in the short term that's what you'd get. The SNP. Its just the same as the "Westminster Tory rule" theory that keeps getting rammed into us. Its simply not true in either direction So all hyperbole about schisms is just wishful thinking? In that case, there is no point in debating it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hasselhoff Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 See that bit in bold? WHY does nobody in the No camp EVER understand that? So the SNP can take us over the nationalist cliff edge then run away and let someone else clear up the mess? No way, if it ever happens, they have to be held accountable and have the finger pointed at them when people realise they were lied to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 So the SNP can take us over the nationalist cliff edge then run away and let someone else clear up the mess? No way, if it ever happens, they have to be held accountable and have the finger pointed at them when people realise they were lied to Shouldn't that be the whole YES campaign that would be held responsible? Ironically, using your cliffe dge and mess analogy, you could argue that the SNP is trying to clean up the mess of the cliff edge fall the UK is taking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor jambo Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 Shouldn't that be the whole YES campaign that would be held responsible? Ironically, using your cliffe dge and mess analogy, you could argue that the SNP is trying to clean up the mess of the cliff edge fall the UK is taking. The SNP as you know are not trrying to clean anything up- they are trying to extract a new reason for an old agenda. They cannot risk a successful Brexit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pans Jambo Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 At least in the short term that's what you'd get. The SNP. Its just the same as the "Westminster Tory rule" theory that keeps getting rammed into us. Its simply not true in either direction Not really DJ. I believe 5 minutes after a Yes vote the SNP would start to splinter and the the real differences would start to show. The Scottish Tories and Labour would stop taking orders and direction from the Empire in Westminster and would start to look like proper political parties that Scots could get behind. No, the SNP are the means and not the end. Whereas down south the middle little Englanders will continue to vote Tory as there is no real alternative. So that will in fact continue to be rammed into you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor jambo Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 Not really DJ. I believe 5 minutes after a Yes vote the SNP would start to splinter and the the real differences would start to show. The Scottish Tories and Labour would stop taking orders and direction from the Empire in Westminster and would start to look like proper political parties that Scots could get behind. No, the SNP are the means and not the end. Whereas down south the middle little Englanders will continue to vote Tory as there is no real alternative. So that will in fact continue to be rammed into you. Scotland needs a new centre right party though "conservative " is a death tag up here and they can never gain power again. It has become a term of abuse In my opinion we need a similar arrangement to NI where there is a party that is affiliated though not the same Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 The SNP as you know are not trrying to clean anything up- they are trying to extract a new reason for an old agenda. They cannot risk a successful Brexit They think Brexit will not be successful, but not much they can do to affect it one way or the other. So they have to wait and see. Once the agreement is hammered out (18-24 months away) people will be in a better position to know where we all stand. Which seems reasonable. But the SNP have risked it on being an unsuccessful Brexit. If it is a success and there is a referendum on INdy, they will lose and that will be it...until the next time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Murray Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 They think Brexit will not be successful, but not much they can do to affect it one way or the other. So they have to wait and see. Once the agreement is hammered out (18-24 months away) people will be in a better position to know where we all stand. Which seems reasonable. But the SNP have risked it on being an unsuccessful Brexit. If it is a success and there is a referendum on INdy, they will lose and that will be it...until the next time! They could now maybe jump on board and at least try and show that they want to make a success of Brexit, it is after all happening now, it is surely in everyone's interest that it is as successful as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 They could now maybe jump on board and at least try and show that they want to make a success of Brexit, it is after all happening now, it is surely in everyone's interest that it is as successful as possible. They have done, but May/Mundell has rebuffed all of their suggestions! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambo lodge Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 They have done, but May/Mundell has rebuffed all of their suggestions! Oh please. there is no way that the SNP have been constructive during Brexit discussions. Like many on here it's my My way or No way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Murray Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 They have done, but May/Mundell has rebuffed all of their suggestions! You'll need to post a link to where someone in the SNP government, or from Westminster, is quoted saying they are commited to making Brexit a success for everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambo lodge Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 Scotland needs a new centre right party though "conservative " is a death tag up here and they can never gain power again. It has become a term of abuse In my opinion we need a similar arrangement to NI where there is a party that is affiliated though not the same Sadly you are probably correct. The one thing Alex Salmond has " achieved " in Scotland is to brand "Westminster Tories" toxic. A good Brexit however may turn the tide and with Ruth Davidson at the helm in Scotland who knows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor jambo Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 They were toxic long before Alex Salmond became mainstream and will continue to be for many years, they can call it anything they like but I won't ever be voting for them. Neither will I but I would like an alternative that I could vote for sort of "New labour 2" without the illegal war,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 Sadly you are probably correct. The one thing Alex Salmond has " achieved " in Scotland is to brand "Westminster Tories" toxic. A good Brexit however may turn the tide and with Ruth Davidson at the helm in Scotland who knows. Ruth Davidson who mocks a fellow Scot because of their accent, and who sees Scots as second class citizens. Aye, she's doing a braw job! ""The Tory PM also stood by Ms Davidson's side as she made a self-deprecating joke in the venue - a plush art gallery. "I'm delighted we have such spectacular surroundings," said Ms Davidson. "Usually they put the Scots in a place where nothing can be broken. Or stolen for that matter!"" http://archive.is/CJfQI#selection-3361.0-3369.95 https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/politics/holyrood/1207823/ruth-davidson-urged-apologise-mocking-snp-msps-accent-indyref2-debate/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 Neither will I but I would like an alternative that I could vote for sort of "New labour 2" without the illegal war,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, I'm sure you will, after independence. Or there is always the lib dems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor jambo Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 Ruth Davidson who mocks a fellow Scot because of their accent, and who sees Scots as second class citizens. Aye, she's doing a braw job! ""The Tory PM also stood by Ms Davidson's side as she made a self-deprecating joke in the venue - a plush art gallery. "I'm delighted we have such spectacular surroundings," said Ms Davidson. "Usually they put the Scots in a place where nothing can be broken. Or stolen for that matter!"" http://archive.is/CJfQI#selection-3361.0-3369.95 https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/politics/holyrood/1207823/ruth-davidson-urged-apologise-mocking-snp-msps-accent-indyref2-debate/ Yes, in the barbers yesterday I notice Joan Mcalpine harping on about that in ?the record or summit. trying to make it look like "Tories" somehow hate Scots and try to hide their accents...... utter guff frankly the day we cannot laugh at ourselves is a sad one And the SNP MSP accent is, franky- minging I hate the west coast accent- its rough, uncouth. Lacking refinement ( and I say that having lived here most of my life) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 Yes, in the barbers yesterday I notice Joan Mcalpine harping on about that in ?the record or summit. trying to make it look like "Tories" somehow hate Scots and try to hide their accents...... utter guff frankly the day we cannot laugh at ourselves is a sad one And the SNP MSP accent is, franky- minging I hate the west coast accent- its rough, uncouth. Lacking refinement ( and I say that having lived here most of my life) Aye, we can laugh at ourselves, but Davidson does it to curry favour not with us. She's an Uncle Tom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambo lodge Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 Ruth Davidson who mocks a fellow Scot because of their accent, and who sees Scots as second class citizens. Aye, she's doing a braw job! ""The Tory PM also stood by Ms Davidson's side as she made a self-deprecating joke in the venue - a plush art gallery. "I'm delighted we have such spectacular surroundings," said Ms Davidson. "Usually they put the Scots in a place where nothing can be broken. Or stolen for that matter!"" http://archive.is/CJfQI#selection-3361.0-3369.95 https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/politics/holyrood/1207823/ruth-davidson-urged-apologise-mocking-snp-msps-accent-indyref2-debate/ You poor wee sensitive soul. I would rather a piece of humour than Mr Angry Alex Salmond spouting forth his loathing for Westminster Tories. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Murray Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 Ruth Davidson who mocks a fellow Scot because of their accent, and who sees Scots as second class citizens. Aye, she's doing a braw job! ""The Tory PM also stood by Ms Davidson's side as she made a self-deprecating joke in the venue - a plush art gallery. "I'm delighted we have such spectacular surroundings," said Ms Davidson. "Usually they put the Scots in a place where nothing can be broken. Or stolen for that matter!"" http://archive.is/CJfQI#selection-3361.0-3369.95 https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/politics/holyrood/1207823/ruth-davidson-urged-apologise-mocking-snp-msps-accent-indyref2-debate/ But calling Ruth Davidson a dyke is seen as 'hilarious irreverent satire', by a senior SNP MP, oh the bantz! http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/18/scottish-independence-rally-in-ruth-davidson-homophobia-row/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Murray Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 Aye, we can laugh at ourselves, but Davidson does it to curry favour not with us. She's an Uncle Tom. Jesus wept, really Boris? That's up there with 'Quisling' surely? I thought you were above that kind of crap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor jambo Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 Or the massive recession we are still not recovered from............. To be fair that could have been on anyone's watch, but it is a danger of centre right small government and less regulation. like the more left large governments of the world came out better....................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor jambo Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 Aye, we can laugh at ourselves, but Davidson does it to curry favour not with us. She's an Uncle Tom. et tu Boris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 Superb, get them in the cult and brain washed early doors. Pwoud, very pwoud. [emoji4] http://www.thenational.scot/news/15187666.Charlie__who_was_born_on_a_Saltire__becomes_one_of_the_youngest_members_of_the_SNP_at_4_years_old/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manaliveits105 Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 The snp would let 4 years old vote if they could Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor jambo Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 Superb, get them in the cult and brain washed early doors. Pwoud, very pwoud. [emoji4] http://www.thenational.scot/news/15187666.Charlie__who_was_born_on_a_Saltire__becomes_one_of_the_youngest_members_of_the_SNP_at_4_years_old/ Yet if he was born onto a Union flag........... it would be brainwashing nationalist fascism Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Potter Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 The snp would let 4 years old vote if they could Or vote for a 3rd time if the 2nd vote goes tits up again, which it probably will, if it happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12XU Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 Imagine if we had the sense to say - NO Scottish Parliament building ( was it ?800M plus ) and no all the MSPs who milk Scotland rotten daily Should have been stopped years ago. Now we have the SNP who will take us to a road to ruin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaymarketJambo Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 (edited) Imagine if we had the sense to say - NO Scottish Parliament building ( was it ?800M plus ) and no all the MSPs who milk Scotland rotten daily Should have been stopped years ago. Now we have the SNP who will take us to a road to ruin What a brilliant idea about the Scottish Parliament We could still have 54 to 56 SNP MP's at Westminster and still have a mandate to call another indy ref. And we could have the only Scottish Tory MP - Governor General Fluffy of Scotland with a load of unelected Tory Lords running Scotland, just like the old day's, eh? Edited March 30, 2017 by HaymarketJambo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deesidejambo Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 Imagine if we had the sense to say - NO Scottish Parliament building ( was it ?800M plus ) and no all the MSPs who milk Scotland rotten daily Should have been stopped years ago. Now we have the SNP who will take us to a road to ruin Given that the Scottish Govt has passed little or no legislation apart from Named Person (canned) and the Sectarian Law (deemed by Lawyers as unworkable legislation) and given that they have significant tax raising powers that they have not used to fund social justice, I'd say that as a "Government" they are weak and only interested in populist activities laced with grievance. They are, in summary, lightweights. Freeeedommmmmmmmmm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambo lodge Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 What a brilliant idea about the Scottish Parliament We could still have 54 to 56 SNP MP's at Westminster and still have a mandate to call another indy ref. And we could have the only Scottish Tory MP - Governor General Fluffy of Scotland with a load of unelected Tory Lords running Scotland, just like the old day's, eh? Up until 1964 Scotland regularly voted for a Tory Government. Scotland was effectively run by senior civil servants until devolution. Not so sure its much better nowadays, it is certainly not radical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redm Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 Imagine if we had the sense to say - NO Scottish Parliament building ( was it ?800M plus ) and no all the MSPs who milk Scotland rotten daily Should have been stopped years ago. Now we have the SNP who will take us to a road to ruin Imagine if we had not taken up the opportunity to make decisions for ourselves? That's an unusual sort of daydream. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 Labour Holyrood candidate at last election jumps ship to the SNP cult for 1st round of brainwashing. http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/15190605.Labour_defection_to_SNP_over_constitution_as_Dugdale_pushes_federalism/ Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderstruck Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 Labour Holyrood candidate at last election jumps ship to the SNP cult for 1st round of brainwashing. http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/15190605.Labour_defection_to_SNP_over_constitution_as_Dugdale_pushes_federalism/ Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro Were you in Peebles today? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 Were you in Peebles today? No, but here's a nice 3 min video of NS not getting on with the day job. Check the opposition out acting like bairns, embarrassing. https://mobile.twitter.com/rosscolquhoun/status/847413658061742083?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thecanary.co%2F2017%2F03%2F30%2Fnicola-sturgeons-two-finger-salute-westminster-week-making-everyone-wish-scottish-video%2F Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambo lodge Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 No, but here's a nice 3 min video of NS not getting on with the day job. Check the opposition out acting like bairns, embarrassing. https://mobile.twitter.com/rosscolquhoun/status/847413658061742083?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thecanary.co%2F2017%2F03%2F30%2Fnicola-sturgeons-two-finger-salute-westminster-week-making-everyone-wish-scottish-video%2F You must have watched a different version than I did. I saw and heard 3 minutes of a scripted answer trying to justify what she does in her day job. The howls of laughter from opposition benches tell you they did not believe the answer. No legislation in a whole year, she should be embarrassed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 You must have watched a different version than I did. I saw and heard 3 minutes of a scripted answer trying to justify what she does in her day job. The howls of laughter from opposition benches tell you they did not believe the answer. No legislation in a whole year, she should be embarrassed. No legislation? She just documented everything she has done in that answer. You are seriously away with the goalie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderstruck Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 I am sure the SNP followers will be writing to the BBC about lack of balance - plenty of coverage for Sturgeon on Indy and Brexit but nothing on her Party's dereliction of duty when it comes to the people of Scotland. Like her or not, Davidson makes a clear and pertinent point. https://www.facebook.com/RuthDavidsonOfficial/videos/1452664841442393/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 I am sure the SNP followers will be writing to the BBC about lack of balance - plenty of coverage for Sturgeon on Indy and Brexit but nothing on her Party's dereliction of duty when it comes to the people of Scotland. Like her or not, Davidson makes a clear and pertinent point. https://www.facebook.com/RuthDavidsonOfficial/videos/1452664841442393/ Thought you might have posted that video of Annie Wells MSP (Con) saying she doesn't see the sovereignty of the Parliament she actually works in [emoji23][emoji23] Mind you, another Tory in through the back door with a couple of thousand votes. It's probably her hobby job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderstruck Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 Thought you might have posted that video of Annie Wells MSP (Con) saying she doesn't see the sovereignty of the Parliament she actually works in [emoji23][emoji23] Mind you, another Tory in through the back door with a couple of thousand votes. It's probably her hobby job. Is what Davidson said in any way wrong or inaccurate? Also, the very voting system you seem to criticise is the same system that gives the SNP power with the support of 20-odd% of the electorate. I doubt you see the irony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboX2 Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 We have argued about this before, but they did not abolish tuition fees. They did. The SNP abolished the graduate endowment. Which like it or not isn't a tuition fee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 Is what Davidson said in any way wrong or inaccurate? Also, the very voting system you seem to criticise is the same system that gives the SNP power with the support of 20-odd% of the electorate. I doubt you see the irony. I've heard enough of her pish, I actually follow her on Pusbook, it's the same rhetoric over and over and over and over again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderstruck Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 I've heard enough of her pish, I actually follow her on Pusbook, it's the same rhetoric over and over and over and over again. Is she wrong? Is education an afterthought? Is the entire focus of this Scottish Government to get another Referendum? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 But calling Ruth Davidson a dyke is seen as 'hilarious irreverent satire', by a senior SNP MP, oh the bantz! http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/18/scottish-independence-rally-in-ruth-davidson-homophobia-row/ I equally find that abhorrent. Jesus wept, really Boris? That's up there with 'Quisling' surely? I thought you were above that kind of crap. Perhaps, an outburst of emotion by me, but it rankles that the leader of the opposition feels the need to self deprecate the country she is leader of the opposition in, to gain favour with her counterparts elsewhere. You may of noticed that I have no time for the Tories. I fully respect individuals wish to remain in the union and, in a better world, I'd have been happy to as well. Those who choose the Tories as their last vestige of hope to save this Union are, in m y opinion, misguided. The Tories don't care about you or me, they only care about what serves them best. Their propaganda is emotive but offers no path to the betterment of everyone. Again, IMO. In other words, backing them for what you see as the right reason, will do you more harm than good in the long run. I don't aim that at you Adam, per se, I have no idea of your affiliation politically, I use you to mean those that see the Tories as their only chance for the union. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 et tu Boris Sorry, but can't stand her and what she stands for. She's a charlatan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trapper John McIntyre Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 Sorry, but can't stand her and what she stands for. She's a charlatan. You're a Communist. Didn't that system go down a treat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambo lodge Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 Not a good week for Keith Brown ( where does Nicola go when there is bad news). 1. Queensferry Crossing delayed once again 2. Had to apologise for his role in losing a ?10b deal with the Chinese and 3. announced a Government U turn regarding the Board of Highlands and Islands Enterprise. The phrase piss up in a brewery comes to mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Murray Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 Not a good week for Keith Brown ( where does Nicola go when there is bad news). 1. Queensferry Crossing delayed once again 2. Had to apologise for his role in losing a ?10b deal with the Chinese and 3. announced a Government U turn regarding the Board of Highlands and Islands Enterprise. The phrase piss up in a brewery comes to mind. But section 30's and Holyrood votes for indyref2 keep peoples minds, and media headlines off such 'unimportant' matters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphonseCapone Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 The council elections will be interesting. If the SNP win easily again will most of the people on this thread admit they are outside the silent majority of Scottish voters? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trapper John McIntyre Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 Not a good week for Keith Brown ( where does Nicola go when there is bad news). 1. Queensferry Crossing delayed once again 2. Had to apologise for his role in losing a ?10b deal with the Chinese and 3. announced a Government U turn regarding the Board of Highlands and Islands Enterprise. The phrase piss up in a brewery comes to mind. He's just the latest front man for Sturgeon. Catastrophe of a 'government'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trapper John McIntyre Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 The council elections will be interesting. If the SNP win easily again will most of the people on this thread admit they are outside the silent majority of Scottish voters? No. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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