Even More SNP Nonsense

[Thunderstruck]

Stuart - We had a council tax freeze for year's under the SNP, I take it you were not happy with that because it was the SNP?

Also it's not the SNP government that sets the council tax rate it's our council's.

 

But you just carry on blaming the SNP for everything.

The Freeze was a sticking plaster because the SNP failed in a manifesto commitment to reform Council Tax.

 

"SNP" and "failure in a manifesto commitment" does have a very familiar ring to it but I suppose there is only one manifesto commitment that matters to them.

 

The Freeze denied the Councils much needed tax revenue - cash needed to fund the myriad services that underpin our daily lives. What we see now is too little, too late and, in any event, is simply shifting the tax burden from Business Rates to Council Tax. How very "Tory" of them.

 

Councils have seen real terms reductions in budget of at least 20% and that has been paid for by underfunding non-statutory functions and by shedding staff with a resultant loss of job opportunities. These non-statutory functions include the repair of civic buildings, parks, footpaths, non-trunk roads and this lack of repair is insidious and is building up a huge backlog of serious and very expensive repair. The phrase "a stitch in time saves nine" is very apt.

 

It goes beyond repair to are areas of work where, if it wasn't for funding from the Prince's Trust, Children in Need or other Charities and - wait for it - the Army, vulnerable teenagers would not be offered guidance, counselling or advice on life choices. This is utterly shameful in a Scotland run by a government that claims to be "caring", that aspires to social inclusion and equality of opportunity and that has a vision of some Caledonian Nirvana where all is sweetness and light and the population are the nicest and friendliest in the World.

 

This is the fault of nobody but Salmond, Sturgeon and their respective governments during the last 19 years. Blaming Westminster and the "hated" Tories will not do.

 

Does this matter to the fervent Nationalists? Clearly not, all they dream of is independence and to hang with the weakest in society - "there will undoubtedly be tough times and we will all have to pull through" - but some will have to pull harder than others. Guess who they will be.

 

Isn't it ironical that a part of the drive for independence and a large part of the SNP success in parliamentary elections is fuelled by anti-Tory sentiment and protest voting and, when you stand bag and look, there is barely the thickness of a fag paper between the actions of the Tories and the SNP.

 

The SNP might not be to blame for everything but they most certainly are to blame for matters where they SHOULD be in control.

[HaymarketJambo]

HJ & aC - i did benefit from the CT freeze but all that achieved was a false situation that had to be rectified by the recent huge increase (?43pm) for me. I would much rather have had an annual increase over the "freeze" years.

 

Despite the free bus pass and prescriptions I would still not vote for the SNP or the Greens for the matter. Monster Raving Loony Party would get my vote now if they put up a candidate.

 

So the Monster Raving Loony Party would get your vote which of the three then - Conservatives - Labour - Lib Dems?     

[jambos are go!]

Stuart - We had a council tax freeze for year's under the SNP, I take it you were not happy with that because it was the SNP?

Also it's not the SNP government that sets the council tax rate it's our council's.   

 

But you just carry on blaming the SNP for everything.

 

My Council Tax went up by over 10%. Only 3% due to Edinburgh Council the other7% plus due to a mandatory increase on higher bands imposed by the SNP. I support a partial end of the freeze but am no SNP supporter and their role needs to be fully realised.

[jambo lodge]

So the Monster Raving Loony Party would get your vote which of the three then - Conservatives - Labour - Lib Dems?     

 

I would vote Conservative/Labour /Lib Dem but if the Monster Raving Loony party could win in my constituency then I would vote for them. I have in the past voted SNP but now realise they are not a political party just an Independence cause. For ten years in government in Scotland they have maintained the status quo tinkering with populous policies such as free Bus pass, prescriptions, University fees, abolition of bridge tolls etc. Nothing radical or different to previous governments did just a relentless moan about Westminster.  

[HaymarketJambo]

I would vote Conservative/Labour /Lib Dem but if the Monster Raving Loony party could win in my constituency then I would vote for them. I have in the past voted SNP but now realise they are not a political party just an Independence cause. For ten years in government in Scotland they have maintained the status quo tinkering with populous policies such as free Bus pass, prescriptions, University fees, abolition of bridge tolls etc. Nothing radical or different to previous governments did just a relentless moan about Westminster.  

 

Tell me what did the Labour/LibDems do when they were in power in the Scottish Parliament apart for being puppet masters to their paymasters in London and building a very over budget and very late parliament building at Holyrood?     

Edited March 29, 2017 by HaymarketJambo

[jambo lodge]

Tell me what did the Labour/LibDems do when they were in power in the Scottish Parliament apart for being puppet masters to their paymasters in London and building a very over budget and very late parliament building at Holyrood?     

 

My point was that the SNP have done nothing different or radical in10 years.........even with the increased powers they have. They are so focussed on independence that they are not even ready for new devolved welfare powers.

[HaymarketJambo]

My point was that the SNP have done nothing different or radical in10 years.........even with the increased powers they have. They are so focussed on independence that they are not even ready for new devolved welfare powers.

 

So why did the SNP get elected last year at the Holyrood Elections IF they are that bad and so focused on Independence, that's what the SNP stand for Scottish Independence.       

 

A newgov poll puts the SNP on 56% for Westminster elections away head of the rest. 

[Roxy Hearts]

My point was that the SNP have done nothing different or radical in10 years.........even with the increased powers they have. They are so focussed on independence that they are not even ready for new devolved welfare powers.

They didn't send back 1bn like Labour did, you know, the people's party. SNP spent it on THE people. Didn't create tax loopholes or avoidance schemes.

[AlphonseCapone]

My Council Tax went up by over 10%. Only 3% due to Edinburgh Council the other7% plus due to a mandatory increase on higher bands imposed by the SNP. I support a partial end of the freeze but am no SNP supporter and their role needs to be fully realised.

As someone who has also faced a massive increase in CT due to the double increase, I'm more than happy to it as I can afford to. As can anyone living in a band similar to mine.

 

My problem is Edinburgh council spunking the money, but with the increase I hope to actually see some improvements.

[Adam Murray]

As someone who has also faced a massive increase in CT due to the double increase, I'm more than happy to it as I can afford to. As can anyone living in a band similar to mine.

 

My problem is Edinburgh council spunking the money, but with the increase I hope to actually see some improvements.

 

Edinburgh council with more money to squander is actually a frightening thought.

[Sidsnot]

It's going anyway. https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/38718556

Personally,I think this is a great idea.

 

'Mr Yousaf told BBC Scotland: "If you've got a free bus pass you will continue to have that free bus pass and continue to be able to use that pass in the way that you currently are.

"What we have said is that we want to extend the national travel scheme to Modern Apprentices, to those on a Job Grant, so that some young people, that are in the most need, can also benefit.'

[Sidsnot]

My point was that the SNP have done nothing different or radical in10 years.........even with the increased powers they have. They are so focussed on independence that they are not even ready for new devolved welfare powers.

Have you missed the work being done to our motorways,Newhouse,Bailieston,the Raith Interchange,the M74,what was NL doing apart from giving our cash to London,eh?

[Space Mackerel]

Have you missed the work being done to our motorways,Newhouse,Bailieston,the Raith Interchange,the M74,what was NL doing apart from giving our cash to London,eh?

 

You have to realise, most posters on here probably dont live in Scotland and they who do who post on here are lucky to be under 30 and have barely been past Harthill, Perth, Dunbar or Biggar in their lives.

[jambo lodge]

Have you missed the work being done to our motorways,Newhouse,Bailieston,the Raith Interchange,the M74,what was NL doing apart from giving our cash to London,eh?

 

Nothing radical about what they are doing to our roads. A complete dualling of the A9 with a reasonable toll , collected by smart technology...........that would be radical. About " giving our cash to London" I think we get back more under the Barnet formula than we send to Westminster. 

[jambo lodge]

You have to realise, most posters on here probably dont live in Scotland and they who do who post on here are lucky to be under 30 and have barely been past Harthill, Perth, Dunbar or Biggar in their lives.

 

Very condescending.

[Space Mackerel]

Very condescending.

Still waiting on you outing yourself as from the Orange or Masonic lodge. [emoji106]

[Thunderstruck]

Have you missed the work being done to our motorways,Newhouse,Bailieston,the Raith Interchange,the M74,what was NL doing apart from giving our cash to London,eh?

The Raith Interchange IS the M74. The Carmyle to Tradeston extension of M74 project was underway before 2007. Newhouse and Ballieston are part of the same A8 upgrade development.

 

Meanwhile the rest of our road network is crumbling from the lack of simple and relatively inexpensive maintenance. There are large parts that look like the surface of the moon and, before you point the finger at Councils, trunk roads are a Scottish Government responsibility.

 

 

The major parts of M74, M77, M80 are all recent and pre-SNP.

 

Let's not forget railways - Glasgow to Edinburgh via Falkirk (EGIP) was commenced by Lab/Lib Government in 2006 before being scaled back by the SNP.

 

Glasgow Airport Rail Link (GARL) was commenced in 2006 before being cancelled by the SNP in 2009. I wonder if that cancellation crossed Salmond's mind as he celebrated Glasgow winning the Commonwealth Games.

 

Airdrie to Bathgate and Stirling to Kincardine - both commenced by Lab/Lib.

 

You forgot to mention that bridge (sorry, crossing).

[Space Mackerel]

The Raith Interchange IS the M74. The Carmyle to Tradeston extension of M74 project was underway before 2007. Newhouse and Ballieston are part of the same A8 upgrade development.

 

Meanwhile the rest of our road network is crumbling from the lack of simple and relatively inexpensive maintenance. There are large parts that look like the surface of the moon and, before you point the finger at Councils, trunk roads are a Scottish Government responsibility.

 

 

The major parts of M74, M77, M80 are all recent and pre-SNP.

 

Let's not forget railways - Glasgow to Edinburgh via Falkirk (EGIP) was commenced by Lab/Lib Government in 2006 before being scaled back by the SNP.

 

Glasgow Airport Rail Link (GARL) was commenced in 2006 before being cancelled by the SNP in 2009. I wonder if that cancellation crossed Salmond's mind as he celebrated Glasgow winning the Commonwealth Games.

 

Airdrie to Bathgate and Stirling to Kincardine - both commenced by Lab/Lib.

 

You forgot to mention that bridge (sorry, crossing).

Where is the Raith interchange for all our readers who have never driven through it, you included by all accounts, as that read like some Tory student first year report.

[Thunderstruck]

Where is the Raith interchange for all our readers who have never driven through it, you included by all accounts, as that read like some Tory student first year report.

Apologies if statement of fact offends your rose-tinted view if Wee Nicky's gang.

 

As you should know, Raith is J5 of the M74 at Hamilton. In fact, as the M73 is a complete Pot Mess, I used the Bellshill Bypass, Raith, M74 and M8 on my way home from the last home game at Tynecastle. I was similarly diverted last Thursday evening after a late meeting in Edinburgh.

 

No apology necessary but pray tell what "accounts" lead you to believe that I am unaware of the M77 and its J5.

[JamboX2]

Tell me what did the Labour/LibDems do when they were in power in the Scottish Parliament apart for being puppet masters to their paymasters in London and building a very over budget and very late parliament building at Holyrood?

Abolition of tuition fees

Free bus passes

Creation of the National Parks in Scotland

Airdrie-Bathgate Railway

Borders Railway

Free Personal Care for the Elderly

Schools for the Future building program

Smoking Ban in public places

Local Government electoral reform to STV

Major anti-sectarian programs invested in

Civil partnerships

Abolition of Section 2A (section 28)

Record investment in Scottish Health and Education

Child poverty to its lowest levels in Scotland since the 1980s

The Glasgow 2014 Commonwealth Games Bid

A series of vital and transformative Land Reform Acts which modernised Scots law and handed powers to communities to buy their own lands off absentee Land Owners.

 

Pretty major achievements there.

[12XU]

Possibly recommend Chinese steel for the Queensferry Crossing ?

 

Major blunder there.

[Stuart Lyon]

The Labour legislation to ban smoking in public places is one of the best achievements in my opinion but I'm a non-smoker. Suffered passive smoking for many years especially when I worked in pubs in my 20s.

[jambo lodge]

Still waiting on you outing yourself as from the Orange or Masonic lodge. [emoji106]

 

Sorry to disappoint you, just a good old fashioned Tory who loves the United Kingdom.

[Adam Murray]

Abolition of tuition fees

Free bus passes

Creation of the National Parks in Scotland

Airdrie-Bathgate Railway

Borders Railway

Free Personal Care for the Elderly

Schools for the Future building program

Smoking Ban in public places

Local Government electoral reform to STV

Major anti-sectarian programs invested in

Civil partnerships

Abolition of Section 2A (section 28)

Record investment in Scottish Health and Education

Child poverty to its lowest levels in Scotland since the 1980s

The Glasgow 2014 Commonwealth Games Bid

A series of vital and transformative Land Reform Acts which modernised Scots law and handed powers to communities to buy their own lands off absentee Land Owners.

 

Pretty major achievements there.

 

 

Haha, very Life of Brian, 'What have the Romans ever done for us?'

[HaymarketJambo]

Abolition of tuition fees

Free bus passes

Creation of the National Parks in Scotland

Airdrie-Bathgate Railway

Borders Railway

Free Personal Care for the Elderly

Schools for the Future building program

Smoking Ban in public places

Local Government electoral reform to STV

Major anti-sectarian programs invested in

Civil partnerships

Abolition of Section 2A (section 28)

Record investment in Scottish Health and Education

Child poverty to its lowest levels in Scotland since the 1980s

The Glasgow 2014 Commonwealth Games Bid

A series of vital and transformative Land Reform Acts which modernised Scots law and handed powers to communities to buy their own lands off absentee Land Owners.

 

Pretty major achievements there.

 

Borders Rail Line?

 

The Schools building program / anti-sectarian act  - now that's a very dodgy for Labour?

 

I like the Building of the Scottish Parliament and the Edinburgh Tram Project.

 

Paying for a car parking space at hospital. 

 

Tuition fees?

 

 

If the Lib/Lab government were that great why have they never been in power for ten year's and counting. Hand puppets for their London paymasters.    

Edited March 30, 2017 by HaymarketJambo

[pablo]

Borders Rail Line?

 

The Schools building program / anti-sectarian act - now that's a very dodgy for Labour?

 

I like the Building of the Scottish Parliament and the Edinburgh Tram Project.

 

Paying for a car parking space at hospital.

 

Tuition fees?

 

 

If the Lib/Lab government were that great why have they never been in power for ten year's and counting. Hand puppets for their London paymasters.

Why not try and put up a SNP list against it?

[Stuart Lyon]

SNP deniers and deflectors one and all!

[HaymarketJambo]

Why not try and put up a SNP list against it?

 

Well others doing fine on that subject including my pal the author of the post.    

 

What about the building of Oriam at Heriot-Watt - I take it no anti SNP Hearts fan on here has a issue with that? 

Edited March 30, 2017 by HaymarketJambo

[jambo lodge]

Not one piece of legislation passed by this SNP government in the last year.......why do we need Holyrood?

[Adam Murray]

Not one piece of legislation passed by this SNP government in the last year.......why do we need Holyrood?

 

We can expect much of the same in the next two years

[deesidejambo]

We can expect much of the same in the next two years

Can't wait till Swinney re-tries the Named Person Law.

 

Also known as the paedos dream.

[Seymour M Hersh]

Abolition of tuition fees

Free bus passes

Creation of the National Parks in Scotland

Airdrie-Bathgate Railway

Borders Railway

Free Personal Care for the Elderly

Schools for the Future building program

Smoking Ban in public places

Local Government electoral reform to STV

Major anti-sectarian programs invested in

Civil partnerships

Abolition of Section 2A (section 28)

Record investment in Scottish Health and Education

Child poverty to its lowest levels in Scotland since the 1980s

The Glasgow 2014 Commonwealth Games Bid

A series of vital and transformative Land Reform Acts which modernised Scots law and handed powers to communities to buy their own lands off absentee Land Owners.

 

Pretty major achievements there.

 

Not a lot of long term employment or wealth creation there. 

[Thunderstruck]

Not a lot of long term employment or wealth creation there.

Interestingly, the Royal Navy alone supports 15% of Scotland's industrial base and, beyond that, the suppliers, pie shops and newsagents that trade on that industrial workforce.

 

That is a lot of investment and jobs with a guaranteed programme of work into the foreseeable future.

 

Rebasing the Submarine Flotilla at Faslane will only add to that.

 

This input is, of course, dependent on the Union that is the United Kingdom.

[Yoda]

Why not try and put up a SNP list against it?

I'll get it started; putting Scotland down the schools league table every year since they've been in charge of education.

 

SNP, the Terry Butcher of academic achievement.

[HaymarketJambo]

Interestingly, the Royal Navy alone supports 15% of Scotland's industrial base and, beyond that, the suppliers, pie shops and newsagents that trade on that industrial workforce.

 

That is a lot of investment and jobs with a guaranteed programme of work into the foreseeable future.

 

Rebasing the Submarine Flotilla at Faslane will only add to that.

 

This input is, of course, dependent on the Union that is the United Kingdom.

 

 

You better hope that Jeremy Corbyn does not become British Minister then?

[Thunderstruck]

You better hope that Jeremy Corbyn does not become British Minister then?

No realistic prospect of that.

[HaymarketJambo]

No realistic prospect of that.

 

I didn't think Leicester City would be Champions of England -  but they are.

or

Hibs to win the Scottish Cup - Sadly they are.

 

Or the Name Donald Trump - USA President - But he is.  

[Pans Jambo]

Sorry to disappoint you, just a good old fashioned Tory who loves the United Kingdom.

Whats 'good' about that like?

[doctor jambo]

"Top SNP candidate denies IRA terror links"

 

i'll paraphrase the front page of our local  paper and break it down for the SNP'ers

future son-in-law of SNP MP Corri Wilson a guy Chris Cullen poseted "the RA on tour" before going to Mexico with corri and his fianc?- this was duly screen grabbed.

He is, seemingly born and raised in NI,and a committed Irish Republican

now standing for the SNP as an MSP having won an "internal" vote within the party to replace the longstanding dude

Criticism of his "post" has led to him accusing everyone of being sectarian and racist and threatening to prosecute

 

the SNP are very old labour Glasgow City Council are they not? nepotism, sectarianism lovely jubbly

thoughts? ( oh and he hasn't denied posting it- he did post it- its merely anyone mentioning it is only doing so because he is Catholic)

[Adam Murray]

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/15192410.Whistleblowing_SNP_councillor_quits__claiming_local_party_in_chaos/

 

Pretty damning comment in the article.

I'm sure the SNP supporters will claim she has an axe to grind, no doubt.

 

She added: "I and other people have tried to fight this from the inside. We have been partially successful, but we have been no match for SNP HQ, who have either turned a blind eye or punished those who dare to speak out about the trouble within our party.

[doctor jambo]

Abolition of tuition fees

Free bus passes

Creation of the National Parks in Scotland

Airdrie-Bathgate Railway

Borders Railway

Free Personal Care for the Elderly

Schools for the Future building program

Smoking Ban in public places

Local Government electoral reform to STV

Major anti-sectarian programs invested in

Civil partnerships

Abolition of Section 2A (section 28)

Record investment in Scottish Health and Education

Child poverty to its lowest levels in Scotland since the 1980s

The Glasgow 2014 Commonwealth Games Bid

A series of vital and transformative Land Reform Acts which modernised Scots law and handed powers to communities to buy their own lands off absentee Land Owners.

 

Pretty major achievements there.

Some of those have been an absolute feckin disaster - pensioners have been the only sectoro see their living standards rise since 2008

[Thunderstruck]

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/15192410.Whistleblowing_SNP_councillor_quits__claiming_local_party_in_chaos/

 

Pretty damning comment in the article.

I'm sure the SNP supporters will claim she has an axe to grind, no doubt.

 

She added: "I and other people have tried to fight this from the inside. We have been partially successful, but we have been no match for SNP HQ, who have either turned a blind eye or punished those who dare to speak out about the trouble within our party.

This is back to the ruling clique - the MacMafia as it is known within the SNP and not just the rank and file but elected representatives. Many have said that it is too broad a coalition to last - is a schism forming?

[doctor jambo]

"Top SNP candidate denies IRA terror links"

 

i'll paraphrase the front page of our local  paper and break it down for the SNP'ers

future son-in-law of SNP MP Corri Wilson a guy Chris Cullen poseted "the RA on tour" before going to Mexico with corri and his fianc?- this was duly screen grabbed.

He is, seemingly born and raised in NI,and a committed Irish Republican

now standing for the SNP as an MSP having won an "internal" vote within the party to replace the longstanding dude

Criticism of his "post" has led to him accusing everyone of being sectarian and racist and threatening to prosecute

 

the SNP are very old labour Glasgow City Council are they not? nepotism, sectarianism lovely jubbly

thoughts? ( oh and he hasn't denied posting it- he did post it- its merely anyone mentioning it is only doing so because he is Catholic)

.

[Boris]

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/15192410.Whistleblowing_SNP_councillor_quits__claiming_local_party_in_chaos/

 

Pretty damning comment in the article.

I'm sure the SNP supporters will claim she has an axe to grind, no doubt.

 

She added: "I and other people have tried to fight this from the inside. We have been partially successful, but we have been no match for SNP HQ, who have either turned a blind eye or punished those who dare to speak out about the trouble within our party.

 

 

This is back to the ruling clique - the MacMafia as it is known within the SNP and not just the rank and file but elected representatives. Many have said that it is too broad a coalition to last - is a schism forming?

 

Doesn't surprise me in the least, happens in most political parties tbf.

 

As for a schism, perhaps, but clearly shows that the SNP is a means to an end for those that want independence and that post independence then you would most certainly see a split.

 

SNP is the means, not the end.

[reaths17]

I'll get it started; putting Scotland down the schools league table every year since they've been in charge of education.

 

SNP, the Terry Butcher of academic achievement.

where would they get their brainwashed from if they educated the masses ?

[Adam Murray]

Stolen from somewhere else, bit of lighthearted humour

 

"Let?s haud the Referendum as an annual event,
An? fund it frae the Barnet cash until it?s a? bin spent.
An? efter many weary years, when votes may ebb and flow
Some day the weary voters will get tired o? sayin? NO.
An? then at last with bated breath we?ll wait the final count,
Then celebrate throughout the land on getting what we want,
We?ll cheer and sing and dance a fling and triumph and exult,
And flood the pubs wi? revelry and finest Scottish malt.
Ah ken oor revenue wad fall by umpteen billion quids;
We?d no hae cash tae pay the guys tae educate oor kids,
The Government wad have tae cut oor pensions and oor dole,
But that?s a wee bit hardship we?ll just huv tae learn tae thole.
The NHS could no afford tae pay for a? oor pills,
And scarce wad be the doctors who can diagnose oor ills,
Ye micht jist huv tae suffer frae yer illness or yer pain,
But that is just the price to be a nation once again.
Tae find the cash tae pay the bills and feed oor hungry bairns
We?d need tae tax the wealthy folk who live in Newton Mearns
So some o? them wad up and off and tak their business too,
So soon we?d need to tax the rest, an? that means me an? you.
But dinna worry ower much, for great will be the gain,
Despite the poverty and loss, austerity and pain,
Yer man may lose his income and yer hungry weans may cry,
But that is just the price to have the Saltire flying high."

[Adam Murray]

Doesn't surprise me in the least, happens in most political parties tbf.

 

As for a schism, perhaps, but clearly shows that the SNP is a means to an end for those that want independence and that post independence then you would most certainly see a split.

 

SNP is the means, not the end.

 

 

It very rarely happens in the SNP though Boris, any dissent is very rarely seen in the public eye or the media, also when it comes to votes in Holyrood or Westminster, they vote en masse for the same thing, some may say that's good leadership, others would argue that it stifles debate and will eventually lead to resentment among party members, as we are maybe seeing now.

[Pans Jambo]

Doesn't surprise me in the least, happens in most political parties tbf.

 

As for a schism, perhaps, but clearly shows that the SNP is a means to an end for those that want independence and that post independence then you would most certainly see a split.

 

SNP is the means, not the end.

See that bit in bold? WHY does nobody in the No camp EVER understand that?

[doctor jambo]

See that bit in bold? WHY does nobody in the No camp EVER understand that?

At least in the short term that's what you'd get.

The SNP.

Its just the same as the "Westminster Tory rule" theory that keeps getting rammed into us.

Its simply not true in either direction

[Boris]

It very rarely happens in the SNP though Boris, any dissent is very rarely seen in the public eye or the media, also when it comes to votes in Holyrood or Westminster, they vote en masse for the same thing, some may say that's good leadership, others would argue that it stifles debate and will eventually lead to resentment among party members, as we are maybe seeing now.

 

There was a similar tale in Kirkcaldy recently.  Local Parties can be a law unto themselves, and politics at that level can attract the bam element.

 

http://www.fifetoday.co.uk/news/kirkcaldy-councillor-quits-in-bullying-row-1-4069037