Even More SNP Nonsense

[jake]

All of that is debatable. If Brexit is a jump into the dark then so is independence.

 

Neither side can say one is any more uncertain than the other. So the debate has to be on the positives: a reformed post-Brexit union or an independent Scotland. Both options entail years of hard work and hard choices. But thats where we are.

 

How can a brexit vote be a jump into the dark.

The evidence is overwhelming the EU is falling apart and the southern european countries are paying the price.

 

Also the case against independent Scotland goes along the lines of our economy being in deficit to the money given from london.

I wont argue with that .

What i will state is that will always be the case unless we go independent.

It wont change because policy is set for south england as is policy set for northern europe.

 

Imo brexit and independence is a jump into the light.

[cannonfoda]

.

[coconut doug]

Read the Cubie report itself then. The Endowment was a graduate tax designed and hypothecated to access payments, maintenance grants and bursaries for tge poorest to get to university. In effect once all graduates earned ?25,000 + at 0. of a percentage.

 

Since abolished those grants and bursaries have been cut. Students attending university from poorer backgrounds have dropped. And student debt has gone up because maintenance allowances have been cut and loans are the only other option.

 

Free tuition is fine and noble. Education should be free at the point of use. But we need to ensure that the ladders to university and further education are not cut away. All you will do then is ensure university is a bastion of privilege and wealth, and for foreign students.

 

I'd bring it back tomorrow. A tiny tax on all at a fair wage to help the less well off into university is surely better than all students at entry salaries (below ?20k in a lot of places still) paying back debt immediately?

 

The programs it funded helped me into university. I think taking it away has had clear negative impacts. But to argue we did not have free tuition before 2007 is a myth.

Absolute rubbish. The number of students attending uni has gone up as has the proportion of school leavers going to uni.  http://www.scotsman.com/news/record-breaking-number-of-scots-students-get-into-university-1-4197969

 

The number of students from the poorest backgrounds has gone up as has the proportion of students from the poorest backgrounds. They have also achieved higher standards.

 

Student debt in Scotland is around half of that in England.

 

Numbers in FE also up and Scotland leads in terms of positive destinations for students and youth employment.

 

Can you show a link between the removal of bursaries and grants, and a drop in students from poorer backgrounds? I doubt it.

 

Can you show a link between the removal of bursaries and grants, and an increase in student debt? I doubt that too.

[JamboX2]

I get it, you support a graduate tax, but all you have written above has nothing to do with the Lib/Lab coalition abolishing tuition fees

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The Cubie report advised abolition of tuition fees. Which happened. Since that government no Scottish or EU student has paid to attend university.

 

The endowment was a graduate tax to cover the costs of maintenance allowances and bursaries which would have otherwise had to be cut to fund free tuition. Which since 2007 is exactly what we have seen.

[jambo lodge]

Meanwhile according to the Scotsman, Midlothian Council not a happy place with SNP Councillors more interested in point scoring than anything else. SNP HQ however trying to maintain its strict control over everything.

[JamboX2]

Can you show a link between the removal of bursaries and grants, and a drop in students from poorer backgrounds? I doubt it.

 

Can you show a link between the removal of bursaries and grants, and an increase in student debt? I doubt that too.

Student debt rise: http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14562911.Scottish_student_debt_rising__but_still_lowest_in_UK/

 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/inews.co.uk/essentials/news/education/scottish-students-struggle-debt-bursaries-cut/amp/

 

http://www.scottishfinancialnews.com/9088/scottish-student-debt-rising-at-fastest-rate-in-uk/

 

Bursary/Maintenance cut

 

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/universityeducation/11958950/SNP-minister-defends-free-university-tuition-despite-bursary-cuts-for-poor.html

 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/money/2014/jul/28/scottish-ministers-urged-reverse-student-grant-cuts

 

Poverty

 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/36392857

 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.independent.co.uk/student/into-university/scottish-universities-worst-in-the-uk-for-admitting-poorer-students-despite-having-no-tuition-fees-a7051521.html%3Famp

 

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/education/2015/12/worst-place-poor-students-uk-scotland

 

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14519829.Poorest_pupils_face__quot_shocking_quot__barriers_to_university/

 

http://www.suttontrust.com/researcharchive/access-in-scotland/

 

Student finances in Scotland perform better than other parts of the UK. But against the run of form in Scotland student debt is up and bursaries and support grants are being cut.

 

In my time at uni I knew people who dropped out because the cost of living was crippling and it was not sustainable. Increased support is very much needed. But for that there needs to be resource. I don't see why a graduate tax which coukd fund that is a bad thing.

Edited April 2, 2017 by JamboX2

[JamboX2]

How can a brexit vote be a jump into the dark.

The evidence is overwhelming the EU is falling apart and the southern european countries are paying the price.

 

Also the case against independent Scotland goes along the lines of our economy being in deficit to the money given from london.

I wont argue with that .

What i will state is that will always be the case unless we go independent.

It wont change because policy is set for south england as is policy set for northern europe.

 

Imo brexit and independence is a jump into the light.

aa

 

Absolute garbage.

[jake]

So jambox2 the evidence does not show that the EU is a financial basket case.

That southern europe is in fact prospering.

 

Or that the economy of the EU is set to benefit Germany.

Much like the uk economy is geared to the south of england.

 

Is it that you say is garbage.

Or that i think its a leap away from the dark.

 

To use your description.

[JamboX2]

So jambox2 the evidence does not show that the EU is a financial basket case.

That southern europe is in fact prospering.

 

Or that the economy of the EU is set to benefit Germany.

Much like the uk economy is geared to the south of england.

 

Is it that you say is garbage.

Or that i think its a leap away from the dark.

 

To use your description.

Spain and Portugal are recording growth. Slow but steady. Greece has stable government and is managing it's debts. Italy is also showing signs of growth after stagnation.

 

There is still widespread support in those nations to be members.

 

The EU is far from perfect but your argument that it's falling apart is garbage. If anything it's becoming stronger because of Brexit giving it a wake up call.

[jake]

Spain and Portugal are recording growth. Slow but steady. Greece has stable government and is managing it's debts. Italy is also showing signs of growth after stagnation.

 

There is still widespread support in those nations to be members.

 

The EU is far from perfect but your argument that it's falling apart is garbage. If anything it's becoming stronger because of Brexit giving it a wake up call.

 

L.O.L

 

Some cheek calling my post garbage with that reply.

 

Bundesbank currently bankrolls the ECB and Spain to the tune of 7,800 billion dollars.

 

Deutshe bank underpins Italian banks who have bad loans or non performing loans oof 18%.

The greek economy has savings ratio of -20%.

The 3 main opposition parties in Italy are anti Eu

The two biggest french banks have failed stress tests.

French presidential candidate le penn anti euro.

Then there is the gaining of seats in Germany by the ADF.

If you think that the euro will survive and that the EU will continue as is thats fine.

But it flies in the face of evidence.

[jake]

Oh and not forgetting they have just lost their 2nd largest net contributor .

[JamboX2]

L.O.L

 

Some cheek calling my post garbage with that reply.

 

Bundesbank currently bankrolls the ECB and Spain to the tune of 7,800 billion dollars.

 

Deutshe bank underpins Italian banks who have bad loans or non performing loans oof 18%.

The greek economy has savings ratio of -20%.

The 3 main opposition parties in Italy are anti Eu

The two biggest french banks have failed stress tests.

French presidential candidate le penn anti euro.

Then there is the gaining of seats in Germany by the ADF.

If you think that the euro will survive and that the EU will continue as is thats fine.

But it flies in the face of evidence.

ADF are at their lowest in the polls for years. The Greek centre-right (pro-EU) lead in the polls and the rest of southern Europe has parties in power or in the majority across the political divide in favour of the EU.

 

How is it the EU's fault that privately run banks in Italy have done an RBS and overextended themselves? Was RBS the fault of the UK government and the EU? Or of bad choices by a private board of executives and it's wider management?

 

British banks regularly fail stress tests and HSBC, Llyods and RBS regularky get fined at the moment for breach of rules. So it happening to French banks matter hee-haw.

 

Le Penn in polling for the 2nd stage of the French presidential election regularly polls behind Marcon and Melenchon (one of which is likely to be her rival in the run off stage).

 

All your points do not explain why you think or even remotely evidence the break up of the EU.

 

You're citing failures of private banks and political movements in retreat or not doing as well as a hysterical British press seem to hope.

 

ADF at 8%. So the threshold to get seats but Merkel is 34% and her pro-EU partners the Social Democrats are on 30%. So your ADF point is nonsense: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/germany-afd-party-polls-frauke-petry-anti-immigration-latest-a7595221.html

 

Le Penn set to lose run off against pro-EU opponent: http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN1650JG

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/mar/26/marine-le-pen-emmanuel-macron-french-elections

 

Britain bankrolled Ireland's bailout loan. The Americans and the EU helped us out with our banks in thr crash with assistance in their nations on UK registered banks. Your Spain point is a "so what?" Are we just meant to let one of our key trade partners and allies go bust? Really?

 

None of your stuff seems to exist in realty.

[JamboX2]

Polls.

We all know how thats been working out lately.

I didnt say it was the fault of the EU that privately run banks are failing.

The fact remains though that bundesbank has propped up the ECB to the tune of 7,800 billion euros.

That the greek economy is currently at -20% savings.

They are also propped by the German taxpayer.

Italian growth or lack of it is -8% pre 2008.

These factors have very real political fall out.

Italy is the dominoe imo.

Polls in the UK and America maybe. But in Europe they've largely been correct from Rajoy narrowly beating the left in Spain to Denmark's Schmidt being defeated, to a hung parliament in Sweden and to Wilders being defeated in Holland.

 

So you're clutching at straws.

 

I thought the Eurozone crisis, Greece and now Brexit were the dominoes sealing an EU collapse? If anything all gave made it come together more than ever.

 

Not forgetting the 2nd biggest net contributor has left.

This together with ongoing immigration concerns high unemployment make the failure of the EU very much on the cards.

 

2017 will tell us more with upcoming elections but to dismiss the trouble the eurozone is in as garbage really is head in the sand stuff.

 

We started this disagreement because you said independence and brexit was a leap into the dark.

I differ in that i think its best for the future.

They are big leaps into the unknown. Massively so. The idea that they aren't is preposterous.

[pablo]

.

[jake]

ADF are at their lowest in the polls for years. The Greek centre-right (pro-EU) lead in the polls and the rest of southern Europe has parties in power or in the majority across the political divide in favour of the EU.

 

How is it the EU's fault that privately run banks in Italy have done an RBS and overextended themselves? Was RBS the fault of the UK government and the EU? Or of bad choices by a private board of executives and it's wider management?

 

British banks regularly fail stress tests and HSBC, Llyods and RBS regularky get fined at the moment for breach of rules. So it happening to French banks matter hee-haw.

 

Le Penn in polling for the 2nd stage of the French presidential election regularly polls behind Marcon and Melenchon (one of which is likely to be her rival in the run off stage).

 

All your points do not explain why you think or even remotely evidence the break up of the EU.

 

You're citing failures of private banks and political movements in retreat or not doing as well as a hysterical British press seem to hope.

 

ADF at 8%. So the threshold to get seats but Merkel is 34% and her pro-EU partners the Social Democrats are on 30%. So your ADF point is nonsense: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/germany-afd-party-polls-frauke-petry-anti-immigration-latest-a7595221.html

 

Le Penn set to lose run off against pro-EU opponent: http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN1650JG

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/mar/26/marine-le-pen-emmanuel-macron-french-elections

 

Britain bankrolled Ireland's bailout loan. The Americans and the EU helped us out with our banks in thr crash with assistance in their nations on UK registered banks. Your Spain point is a "so what?" Are we just meant to let one of our key trade partners and allies go bust? Really?

 

None of your stuff seems to exist in realty.

 

Polls.

We all know how thats been working out lately.

I didnt say it was the fault of the EU that privately run banks are failing.

The fact remains though that bundesbank has propped up the ECB to the tune of 7,800 billion euros.

That the greek economy is currently at -20% savings.

They are also propped by the German taxpayer.

Italian growth or lack of it is -8% pre 2008.

These factors have very real political fall out.

Italy is the dominoe imo.

 

Not forgetting the 2nd biggest net contributor has left.

This together with ongoing immigration concerns high unemployment make the failure of the EU very much on the cards.

 

2017 will tell us more with upcoming elections but to dismiss the trouble the eurozone is in as garbage really is head in the sand stuff.

 

We started this disagreement because you said independence and brexit was a leap into the dark.

I differ in that i think its best for the future.

[Stuart Lyon]

4 months on and W H Smith still not stocking any Scottish produced bottled water!

[HaymarketJambo]

4 months on and W H Smith still not stocking any Scottish produced bottled water!

 

Thanks for the update on Watergate.   

[Francis Albert]

Spain and Portugal are recording growth. Slow but steady. Greece has stable government and is managing it's debts. Italy is also showing signs of growth after stagnation.

 

There is still widespread support in those nations to be members.

 

The EU is far from perfect but your argument that it's falling apart is garbage. If anything it's becoming stronger because of Brexit giving it a wake up call.

Spain has 18.3% unemployment. Greece has 23%. Italy over 11%. Youth unemployment is running at 40% in Spain and Greece. There is no sign of growth at levels that will significantly impact on these numbers. I don't think a society can sustain these sorts of numbers for year after year, decade after decade without some sort of breakdown.

And pro-EU demonstrators here emote about their "future being ruined" by Brexit!

[jake]

Polls in the UK and America maybe. But in Europe they've largely been correct from Rajoy narrowly beating the left in Spain to Denmark's Schmidt being defeated, to a hung parliament in Sweden and to Wilders being defeated in Holland.

 

So you're clutching at straws.

 

I thought the Eurozone crisis, Greece and now Brexit were the dominoes sealing an EU collapse? If anything all gave made it come together more than ever.

 

 

They are big leaps into the unknown. Massively so. The idea that they aren't is preposterous.

 

Ok jambox2.

 

You continue the scaremongering i will deal with economic reality.

You deal in polls i will deal in actual happenings.

 

How can it go on the mess that is the euro.

Nothing i can point out makes any difference .

Ive said my piece.

Tbf you have offered up good argument.

[JamboX2]

Spain has 18.3% unemployment. Greece has 23%. Italy over 11%. Youth unemployment is running at 40% in Spain and Greece. There is no sign of growth at levels that will significantly impact on these numbers. I don't think a society can sustain these sorts of numbers for year after year, decade after decade without some sort of breakdown.

And pro-EU demonstrators here emote about their "future being ruined" by Brexit!

And yet these nations repeatedly poll high support for the EU and elect pro-EU governments.

 

And yes, there are hard times at the moment. Have you seen unemployment levels in parts of the UK? Young people still support the EU highly because it offers the ease of moving, living and working across a continent.

 

They've been shafted by this.

 

Make no mistake this is limiting Britain a lot.

Edited April 3, 2017 by JamboX2

[Francis Albert]

And yet these nations repeatedly poll high support for the EU and elect pro-EU governments.

 

And yes, there are hard times at the moment. Have you seen unemployment levels in parts of the UK? Young people still support the EU highly because it offers the ease of moving, living and working across a continent.

 

They've been shafted by this.

 

Make no mistake this is limiting Britain a lot.

My numbers were averages. Compared to a UK average of 4.7%. Yes there are unemployment blackspots in the UK but nothing like the worse Greece, Spain and Italy have to offer.

 

How many young unemployed in the UK find an "ease of moving, living and working" across a continent? That ease applies to a small minority of the privileged with qualifications and language skills, without family ties. They will still be able to work in Europe just as many did before we joined the EU and even before the EU existed (and as many non-EU nationals do today).

 

And in practice the ease of movement is greater for those coming to the UK than for those going   from the UK, due to an in practice more restrictive immigration policy than that applied by the UK, which has not exploited to the same extent restrictions which can be applied within the "free movement of peoples" requirements.

 

Post Brexit I think we will still see more EU immigration to the UK than emigration from the UK to the EU, because of the relative strength of the UK economy reflected in lower unemployment rates and greater demand for labour. 

[jake]

And yet these nations repeatedly poll high support for the EU and elect pro-EU governments.

 

And yes, there are hard times at the moment. Have you seen unemployment levels in parts of the UK? Young people still support the EU highly because it offers the ease of moving, living and working across a continent.

 

They've been shafted by this.

 

Make no mistake this is limiting Britain a lot.

 

Yeah the people of spain greece etc now have to leave their homeland to find work in the stronger economies.

 

Hows it go again oh yeah they do the jobs no one else wants.

 

What a bogeyman this freedom of movement is.

We will see how these polls you speak of pan out.

If you have the will to work abroad its not so difficult.

Australian young people manage .

Please provide these polls you speak of.

My experience of working alongside people from different countries is that its economic necessity and not some student sabatical.

Which is a preserve of the upper middle class.

 

Which seems to be the same people who look down on brexit as chav like.

[jake]

Professor Mark Blyth who predicted brexit and trump also predicts the end of the EU 2017.

German vice chancellor admits the break up of EU is more likely due to financial trouble of the euro.

Geo political analysts predicting the reluctance by the world economies to accept the euro by 2018.

Quite a lot of evidence to back up my garbage jambox2.

[JamboX2]

Yeah the people of spain greece etc now have to leave their homeland to find work in the stronger economies.

 

Hows it go again oh yeah they do the jobs no one else wants.

 

What a bogeyman this freedom of movement is.

We will see how these polls you speak of pan out.

If you have the will to work abroad its not so difficult.

Australian young people manage .

Please provide these polls you speak of.

My experience of working alongside people from different countries is that its economic necessity and not some student sabatical.

Which is a preserve of the upper middle class.

 

Which seems to be the same people who look down on brexit as chav like.

81% support in Spain: https://www.google.co.uk/amp/uk.mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUKKCN1002A0

 

89% Greece, 82% French, 79% Italy:

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.politico.eu/article/support-for-remaining-in-eu-above-60-percent-in-most-countries-poll/amp/

 

Across the board it's up. FT reported up 7% in the UK. https://www.ft.com/content/9cfdad52-ada7-11e6-9cb3-bb8207902122

 

I'm not talking about the Erasmus students (which a few of my mates benefited a lot from) I'm talking about being able to with freely move for work. That benefits all involved really.

 

Who said it's chav like? You. You've made that comparison. My fear isn't its chaviness or not but its hijacking of a right wing vision of the UK as some small state, free marketeer and all this jingoistic language over Gibraltar is just a backwards mess.

 

The Spanish are right. UK politicians are rattled by all this. It's provingto be a torturous and painful retreat into isolation. If we're trading Denmark and Spain for Bahrain and Jordan then we're really not going to achieve much or be influential anymore.

 

There was a story the Dutch had abput taking 300 years to find a place in the world between the Anglo-Dutch wars and the EEC for them which the Americans then used to question Britain's role post-Empire but pre-EEC as was. Nice to see us regress to a two bit power with little say on the edge of Europe rather than influencing decisions from within the biggest single market in the world.

[JamboX2]

My numbers were averages. Compared to a UK average of 4.7%. Yes there are unemployment blackspots in the UK but nothing like the worse Greece, Spain and Italy have to offer.

Some of the generational poverty and unemployment in the UK is shameful in comparison to Europe. There's a reason we got huge sums of regeneration money for parts of Scotland, Wales, NI and the English regions. Whether it was spent well is an issue with our politicians.

 

How many young unemployed in the UK find an "ease of moving, living and working" across a continent? That ease applies to a small minority of the privileged with qualifications and language skills, without family ties. They will still be able to work in Europe just as many did before we joined the EU and even before the EU existed (and as many non-EU nationals do today).

Is that notin part a failure of our education systems to teach foreign languages and to prepare people for the realities of the world?

 

The difference is, as you know, the rules out with FOM make it that extra bit harder and more expensive. Which in turn limits that ability to move for work again and applies those difficulties to more not less. So you create a more elitist form of migration.

 

And in practice the ease of movement is greater for those coming to the UK than for those going from the UK, due to an in practice more restrictive immigration policy than that applied by the UK, which has not exploited to the same extent restrictions which can be applied within the "free movement of peoples" requirements.

So our FOM issues are our own doing? Agreed. Much like the strain on services argument isn't solved by cuts to funding and cutting needed immigration but by building schools and hospitals etc to compensate for population growth. You know, planning...

 

Post Brexit I think we will still see more EU immigration to the UK than emigration from the UK to the EU, because of the relative strength of the UK economy reflected in lower unemployment rates and greater demand for labour.

Lower unemployment rates but less work place and employment rights and more zero hours contracts. Employment can't just be measured by the number of jobs but the quality of work provided. You can shut a car plant easier in the UK than France, Spain, Germany etc because we offer less protections to our workers.

 

Hence our more flexible and "resilient" economy but that comes at a price of less rights, less pay and lower standards of living as a result.

 

And we will see that continue to slip backwards once we've left rather than get better. With the government there is we're looking at an erosion of rights the EU treaties preserved and protected.

Edited April 3, 2017 by JamboX2

[SwindonJambo]

Professor Mark Blyth who predicted brexit and trump also predicts the end of the EU 2017.

German vice chancellor admits the break up of EU is more likely due to financial trouble of the euro.

Geo political analysts predicting the reluctance by the world economies to accept the euro by 2018.

Quite a lot of evidence to back up my garbage jambox2.

I agree with you that the Euro has a very bleak future. It was a daft idea in the 1st place and it will either go tits up altogether or membership will be limited to a core of strong members who can cope with it. Germany, France, the Benelux 3 and possibly Finland.

 

The rest could very easily regress to their own individual currencies and central banks and tbqh would probably be best served by that.

[Seymour M Hersh]

This'll take some beating when it comes to deflecting away from the day to day Scottish Executive failures.

 

http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/nicola-sturgeon-signs-climate-change-agreement-with-california-1-4411105

 

 

[markphmfc]

.

[Maroon Sailor]

This'll take some beating when it comes to deflecting away from the day to day Scottish Executive failures.

 

http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/nicola-sturgeon-signs-climate-change-agreement-with-california-1-4411105

 

 

Nice wee holiday for her. Sure she has saved up hard for it

 

Causes an absolute rammy with another referendum then gets out of dodge

[Space Mackerel]

Whilst TM rubs shoulders with the Whabbists that set up IS or Deasch or whatever they are called theses days, selling them smart munitions and generally unpleasant things, NS has meetings with the CEO of Apple.

 

[jambo lodge]

Apart from being a nice little trip , what is the purpose of signing a climate change agreement with California?

[Stuart Lyon]

NS will do anything for a photo opportunity! Tell me the benefits of signing a Climate Agreement with the Governor of California.

[manaliveits105]

 Krankie has lost the plot  - she is not fit for purpose.

[Francis Albert]

Some of the generational poverty and unemployment in the UK is shameful in comparison to Europe. There's a reason we got huge sums of regeneration money for parts of Scotland, Wales, NI and the English regions. Whether it was spent well is an issue with our politicians.

 

 

Is that notin part a failure of our education systems to teach foreign languages and to prepare people for the realities of the world?

 

The difference is, as you know, the rules out with FOM make it that extra bit harder and more expensive. Which in turn limits that ability to move for work again and applies those difficulties to more not less. So you create a more elitist form of migration.

 

 

So our FOM issues are our own doing? Agreed. Much like the strain on services argument isn't solved by cuts to funding and cutting needed immigration but by building schools and hospitals etc to compensate for population growth. You know, planning...

 

 

Lower unemployment rates but less work place and employment rights and more zero hours contracts. Employment can't just be measured by the number of jobs but the quality of work provided. You can shut a car plant easier in the UK than France, Spain, Germany etc because we offer less protections to our workers.

 

Hence our more flexible and "resilient" economy but that comes at a price of less rights, less pay and lower standards of living as a result.

 

And we will see that continue to slip backwards once we've left rather than get better. With the government there is we're looking at an erosion of rights the EU treaties preserved and protected.

Thanks for the reply which makes some fair points. However

- I am not sure what the basis for saying UK "generational unemployment" is shameful compared to Europe. At best a sweeping generalisation. I am sure countries with unemployment rates of around 10% to 20% plus and up to 40% youth/young unemployment must have such problems and of course there are countries and many regions of Europe which receive regeneration funding (to which the UK is I think a net contributor).

- I think our linguistic deficiencies are not simply a matter of the standard of education. The fact is there is much less incentive for English speakers to learn other languages than those whose native tongue is much less widely spoken. And we have a general problem about declining respect and commitment from parents to learning (with the exception of parts of the Asian community)

- I still think you have a somewhat idealistic concept of FOM. In practice it has meant employers in the richer countries can employ people with more skills for less money from poorer regions of Europe - Southern Europe, Poland and increasingly Rumania and other East European countries. The major flow in the other direction from the UK  is retired people who can live much more cheaply in Spain and elsewhere.

- Yes, FOM issues and immigration issues are to a large extent our own doing (and immigration has of course been a positive for the UK). But "planning" for resources such as schools and hospitals with at least 50 year life spans in a situation when 300 million people have the right to come and live here is not a simple matter. Who is to say that a decade or two from now the net migrant flows will not have changed drastically and perhaps reversed.

- Yes there is a trade off between workers rights and unemployment rates. The question is whether determining that trade off in an EU treaty that can only be changed with the agreement of 27 members (or even by a majority of those 27) is a sensible way of addressing that trade off, or whether the democtratically elected (and de-electable) governments of individual nations should be free to decide (as the SNP wants to in a UK context).

Edited April 4, 2017 by Francis Albert

[Francis Albert]

So Nicola has "secured" investment of ?6.3m (of which we are contributing ?1.5m) to create or safeguard 40 jobs.

 

I think she should have thought twice about announcing that as the main (only practical?) achievement of a trip to California.

 

Although of course this was already "secured" before she got on the plane.

[Space Mackerel]

Apart from being a nice little trip , what is the purpose of signing a climate change agreement with California?

NS will do anything for a photo opportunity! Tell me the benefits of signing a Climate Agreement with the Governor of California.

Krankie has lost the plot - she is not fit for purpose.

No mention of the arms deal to Saudi Arabia.

[emoji53]

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[jambo lodge]

 

No mention of the arms deal to Saudi Arabia.

[emoji53]

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 Has Nicola got an arms deal as well??

[Don Dan]

Has Nicola got an arms deal as well??

Nah however she's someone you'd keep at arms length!

[Stuart Lyon]

She and TM had a "legs" deal in their last photo shoot together!

[robroy1874]

wee burney's expenses need to be made public

[Maroon Sailor]

wee burney's expenses need to be made public

I'm sure everything has come out of her own pocket

[jambo lodge]

 

Scotsman suggesting that the results of an NHS staff survey in Scotland which was completed last December will be held until 2018. I wonder why???

[Space Mackerel]

Scotsman suggesting that the results of an NHS staff survey in Scotland which was completed last December will be held until 2018. I wonder why???

Scotsman is a Tory Yoonyinist supporting rag these days.

[Trapper John McIntyre]

Scotsman is a Tory Yoonyinist supporting rag these days.

How did the National Listening Survey go?

[jambo lodge]

Scotsman is a Tory Yoonyinist supporting rag these days.

Why do you never address the topic raised? Making childish comments only confirms that the story has some mileage.

[JamboX2]

Whilst TM rubs shoulders with the Whabbists that set up IS or Deasch or whatever they are called theses days, selling them smart munitions and generally unpleasant things, NS has meetings with the CEO of Apple.

 

The King of Jordan is in Daesh?

[Maroon Sailor]

The CEO of apple looks like he has swallowed an apple

[Space Mackerel]

Why do you never address the topic raised? Making childish comments only confirms that the story has some mileage.

I haven't seen the story anywhere else and I'm not giving that pish ?0.000001 click bait.

[Space Mackerel]

The King of Jordan is in Daesh?

Eh?

 

[jambo lodge]

I haven't seen the story anywhere else and I'm not giving that pish ?0.000001 click bait.