Even More SNP Nonsense

[reaths17]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2004/jul/15/foreignpolicy.uk

 

Who was responsible for the shoddy built schools?

you have said repeatedly, that nothing in the english papers is no more than bullshit, theres quotes from your despised mail in that as well.

 

so when it's summit you dont want to hear it's manipulated by westminster but if it helps you its fine and dandy.

 

hypocracy and not democracy, well done

Edited March 23, 2017 by reaths17

[Space Mackerel]

you have said repeatedly, that nothing in the english papers is no more than bullshit, theres quotes from your despised mail in that as well.

 

so when it's summit you dont want to hear it's manipulated by westminster but if it helps you its fine and dandy.

 

hypocracy and not democracy, well done

You would be better being honest and say you've had your eyes opened slightly to what goes on in the world geo-politically.

[HaymarketJambo]

so your saying its just as bad in england ?

 

i said in a previous post that all economy's are suffering because of the crash.

 

which suggests to me that without paying the fruitloops at holyrood things would be just the same. great so the separatists are being paid for  F all and make no difference when pressing the buttons.

 

you have the the inspector signing of dates of all these schools do you ?

 

i said it wrongly my apologies, "built at a cost but poorly" would be better 

 

I think the Health service is in good shape under the SNP.

 

Well you give me a date of problem with a School that was under the SNP Government?  

 

As other posters have said it was Labour.

 

If want to talk about other building projects, who was to blame for the Edinburgh Trams and the building of the Scottish Parliament at Holyrood, well late and well, well over budget, I take it you blame the SNP?   

Edited March 23, 2017 by HaymarketJambo

[The Tartan Trump]

EVERYTHING IS THE FAULT OF THE ESS EMM PEE AND FAT SALMOND AND WEE JIMMY KRANKIE !!!!

 

I have to admit, I'm finding it hard to understand why support for the Unionist parties has collapsed in Scotland over the last 10 years with this sort of reasoned and well thought out line of attack.

[JamboX2]

Why aren't they in the current set up?

2 reasons:

 

1. The centre of Scottish politics was under firm grip of the Lab-Lib coalition and now the SNP. The SNP have (in some places) help rehabilitate conservativism by enacting conservative style policies (Council Tax freeze for a start and business rate cuts and a harder line on justice) alongside wooing votes off them. This brings it back into mainstream politics. Add to that, that Scots voters vote for parties closeto the centre: RISE, the SNO, Trade Union Coalition don't win seatsand trail UKIP for votes nationally.

 

2. Once the realities of independence kick in (there is bound to be a blip economically) and the stigma of Westminster die out beyond the core of nationalists, a centre-right party advocating tax cuts, limited statism and a pro-business agenda will win votes from middleclass Scots. Many in the SNP share that. Look at the Ewings and Swinney for that.

 

I'd also add the likes of Cat Boyd, Jim Sillars et.al are kept alive in Scottish politics because of independence as an idea and movement. Not because of their wider popularity.

 

At heart, Scotland is a small c conservative nation. We baulk at new ideas in some things and take a skeptical approach to things. I'd like to say we were a more liberal, open and radical nation but that is hard to justify by our political leanings at the ballot box or from what our parties offer us.

[JamboX2]

I think the Health service is in good shape under the SNP.

 

Well you give me a date of problem with a School that was under the SNP Government?

 

As other posters have said it was Labour.

 

If want to talk about other building projects, who was to blame for the Edinburgh Trams and the building of the Scottish Parliament at Holyrood, well late and well, well over budget, I take it you blame the SNP?

On your last point with the Trams, the SNP were running the council in coalition with the Liberals and went ahead with the plan when they could've scrapped it and both presided over the utter shambles which was it's implementation. The SNP led Scottish government also rejected requests for Transport Scotland to assist with it.

 

It was an utter shambles on. But the SNP can't just wash their hands of the situation entirely HJ.

 

As an aside, now we have it we should build off it. Looking at equivalent cities which have trams we would be daft not to.

[The Don]

Craig Murray did an article on social media comments, there's Yoons masquerading at Indy pro people online and vice versa.

 

 

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https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/snp-supporters-caught-posing-pictures-2111409.amp

 

Owen Thompson SNP MP and other SNP council Posing as labour independence supporters at the last Indy ref campaign Dirty tricks by our squeaky clean SNP again.

 

 

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[Space Mackerel]

More explanation from Richard Murphy about his conclusions about the GERS figures he rubbished.

 

http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2017/03/15/more-on-why-gers-might-properly-be-called-crap-data/

[Space Mackerel]

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/snp-supporters-caught-posing-pictures-2111409.amp

 

Owen Thompson SNP MP and other SNP council Posing as labour independence supporters at the last Indy ref campaign Dirty tricks by our squeaky clean SNP again.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If you check the date of the article first, then remember the Record was a pro Union paper back then.

 

Minor details of course [emoji849]

[The Don]

If you check the date of the article first, then remember the Record was a pro Union paper back then.

 

Minor details of course [emoji849]

 

So your in denial about that as well then. It didn't happen cause it was in the Record hahahaha

 

Talk about brainwashed.

 

 

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[Space Mackerel]

So your in denial about that as well then. It didn't happen cause it was in the Record hahahaha

 

Talk about brainwashed.

 

 

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Labour for Independence were at a Yes rally and some SNP HIGH profile Councillors held up a banner along with a guy in the middle.

 

Yep, it's the dirty art of mass media hoodwinking. [emoji23][emoji23]

[The Don]

Labour for Independence were at a Yes rally and some SNP HIGH profile Councillors held up a banner along with a guy in the middle.

 

Yep, it's the dirty art of mass media hoodwinking. [emoji23][emoji23]

Next you'll be agreeing with the other extremist fanatics that yesterday's horrific terrorist attack was staged to disrupt Holyroods Indy debate.

 

 

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[Space Mackerel]

Next you'll be agreeing with the other extremist fanatics that yesterday's horrific terrorist attack was staged to disrupt Holyroods Indy debate.

 

 

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More chance you and your wee pal reaths will come out with something credible and relevant to be honest.

[jack D and coke]

Seeing as we're talking about GERS figures again.

[Space Mackerel]

Seeing as we're talking about GERS figures again.

I like this one too:

 

[Boris]

2 reasons:

 

1. The centre of Scottish politics was under firm grip of the Lab-Lib coalition and now the SNP. The SNP have (in some places) help rehabilitate conservativism by enacting conservative style policies (Council Tax freeze for a start and business rate cuts and a harder line on justice) alongside wooing votes off them. This brings it back into mainstream politics. Add to that, that Scots voters vote for parties closeto the centre: RISE, the SNO, Trade Union Coalition don't win seatsand trail UKIP for votes nationally.

 

2. Once the realities of independence kick in (there is bound to be a blip economically) and the stigma of Westminster die out beyond the core of nationalists, a centre-right party advocating tax cuts, limited statism and a pro-business agenda will win votes from middleclass Scots. Many in the SNP share that. Look at the Ewings and Swinney for that.

 

I'd also add the likes of Cat Boyd, Jim Sillars et.al are kept alive in Scottish politics because of independence as an idea and movement. Not because of their wider popularity.

 

At heart, Scotland is a small c conservative nation. We baulk at new ideas in some things and take a skeptical approach to things. I'd like to say we were a more liberal, open and radical nation but that is hard to justify by our political leanings at the ballot box or from what our parties offer us.

So why has Conservatism been roundly rejected since 1987?

[The Tartan Trump]

[Sidsnot]

answer the ******* question, for once

 

slithering about like a slimey snake avoiding anything that shows you up for the slaistering twat you are.

^^^^ Losing it.

[Sidsnot]

Next you'll be agreeing with the other extremist fanatics that yesterday's horrific terrorist attack was staged to disrupt Holyroods Indy debate.

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Rudi,I think you are mental.

[Space Mackerel]

So why has Conservatism been roundly rejected since 1987?

Life through the lens of a young Edinburgh trainee legal eagle Boris.

The only food banks they know are at Mornigside and are called Waitrose.

[jambo lodge]

So why has Conservatism been roundly rejected since 1987?

 

Partly at least because too many people in Scotland just love to blame someone else in the politics of grievance. Life is full of people who pontificate and achieve nothing. Put them together , give them a cause and blame big bad Tories for everything and that's partly your answer. New Labour in the shape of Blair also stole the clothes of the Conservatives and made the Labour Party electable.   

[The Tartan Trump]

Partly at least because too many people in Scotland just love to blame someone else in the politics of grievance. Life is full of people who pontificate and achieve nothing. Put them together , give them a cause and blame big bad Tories for everything and that's partly your answer. New Labour in the shape of Blair also stole the clothes of the Conservatives and made the Labour Party electable.   

Yeah. Nothing to do with the fact they polarized society, destroyed communities and generally didn't give a single solitary shite about Scotland.

[Space Mackerel]

Partly at least because too many people in Scotland just love to blame someone else in the politics of grievance. Life is full of people who pontificate and achieve nothing. Put them together , give them a cause and blame big bad Tories for everything and that's partly your answer. New Labour in the shape of Blair also stole the clothes of the Conservatives and made the Labour Party electable.

That's right, we are all on the dole and hate the English.

[Sidsnot]

https://youtu.be/gIfsM82B134 Glasgow.

 

https://youtu.be/E02SswGxeSM London.

[Thunderstruck]

For those who think Scotland doesn't borrow money.

 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2015/dec/15/scotland-pfi-boom-public-spending-holyrood-snp

[JamboX2]

So why has Conservatism been roundly rejected since 1987?

Thatcher. Her legacy. Her policies.

 

But not all conservatism is Thatcherism.

 

Equally, has it? The electoral system doesn't lend itself to representative politics. Not all political opinions are represented. This isn't Norway or Holland with broad voting patterns.

 

We were debating this happening in future. Not why it has failed.

 

From what you've seen of Scottish governments since 1999 and Scottish politicians your whole life, do you believe they'll implement Das Kapital? If you think the Sheridans, the Boyds, the Sillars and the like will win you're being deluded like Corbynistas.

 

FWIW, if we get independence (or we see a centre left UK govt) I'd like to see a government be socially liberal, nationalise railways, regulate energy markets and radically transform welfare to be supportive not punitive. But I just do not buy, nor I am naive enough to think, that independence makes that any more likely than in the union.

Edited March 24, 2017 by JamboX2

[JamboX2]

Life through the lens of a young Edinburgh trainee legal eagle Boris.

The only food banks they know are at Mornigside and are called Waitrose.

I tell you what, pay rent in Edinburgh on less than ?18k per year after tax and try shopping at Waitrose. I couldn't do it. I don't do it. You have 0 idea about me or my life so stop your constant sniping about things that bare no reality to the truth.

[JamboX2]

Yeah. Nothing to do with the fact they polarized society, destroyed communities and generally didn't give a single solitary shite about Scotland.

I am far too young for Thatcher. Was born the month she was kicked out by her cabinet, so I have a disconnect to it. My parents were both affected badly by her politics and share similar views. That's why I think Tories do not get a break as easily here because she represents them no matter what now.

 

For better or worse I think it's becoming quite stale and whilst I have no time for Tory policies I think the need to have a better debate around policy in Scotland between left and right rather than yoon or indy could be good for a very lazy centre-left in Scotland which hasn't come up with a new idea since free personal care.

Edited March 24, 2017 by JamboX2

[Space Mackerel]

I tell you what, pay rent in Edinburgh on less than ?18k per year after tax and try shopping at Waitrose. I couldn't do it. I don't do it. You have 0 idea about me or my life so stop your constant sniping about things that bare no reality to the truth.

Not a snipe at all, other people look at Scotland through life growing up in schemes like me and most my pals did.

 

There is no small c in conservatism, in fact I'm struggling to think of one Tory voter I know growing up.

 

 

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[JamboX2]

Not a snipe at all, other people look at Scotland through life growing up in schemes like me and most my pals did.

 

There is no small c in conservatism, in fact I'm struggling to think of one Tory voter I know growing up.

 

 

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I don't come from a well to do area either despite what you seem to think. But I know a lot of folk who would rather vote for Davidson or May than anyone on the left of politics.

 

Maybe that's a lack of trust in Corbyn and Sturgeon. Who knows.

 

By small c conservative I don't mean Tory. I mean suspicious of change and attached to outdated systems and ideas.

[deesidejambo]

I don't come from a well to do area either despite what you seem to think. But I know a lot of folk who would rather vote for Davidson or May than anyone on the left of politics.

 

Maybe that's a lack of trust in Corbyn and Sturgeon. Who knows.

 

By small c conservative I don't mean Tory. I mean suspicious of change and attached to outdated systems and ideas.

Comparing May and Davidson with Thatcher is ludicrous.

 

They are far more Liberal and centrist. Thatcher was extreme right-wing.

 

But peeps on this site will continue to perpetuate the comparison as it helps their cause. The Tories will continue to weed out the old style Tebbits and as a result will gain more popularity as the electorate gradually forget Thatcher days.

[AlphonseCapone]

For those who think Scotland doesn't borrow money.

 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2015/dec/15/scotland-pfi-boom-public-spending-holyrood-snp

Literally no one thinks that.

[Boris]

Comparing May and Davidson with Thatcher is ludicrous.

 

They are far more Liberal and centrist. Thatcher was extreme right-wing.

 

But peeps on this site will continue to perpetuate the comparison as it helps their cause. The Tories will continue to weed out the old style Tebbits and as a result will gain more popularity as the electorate gradually forget Thatcher days.

 

You think???

 

Still bound by the same economic doctrines, still the same.

[deesidejambo]

You think???

 

Still bound by the same economic doctrines, still the same.

No way mate.   You think May would trial a new tax in Scotland first?   Thatcher would have said no Indy2 for a generation. Full stop.   May is treading a more acceptable path.

 

Davidson has already said the rich should pay prescription charges in Scotland.  Sturgeon dismissed that.  May its Nicola who is more like Thatcher?  Joke.

 

Thatcher was hardcore mental and confrontational.  May and Davidson are not.

[Boris]

Thatcher. Her legacy. Her policies.

 

But not all conservatism is Thatcherism.

 

Equally, has it? The electoral system doesn't lend itself to representative politics. Not all political opinions are represented. This isn't Norway or Holland with broad voting patterns.

 

We were debating this happening in future. Not why it has failed.

 

From what you've seen of Scottish governments since 1999 and Scottish politicians your whole life, do you believe they'll implement Das Kapital? If you think the Sheridans, the Boyds, the Sillars and the like will win you're being deluded like Corbynistas.

 

FWIW, if we get independence (or we see a centre left UK govt) I'd like to see a government be socially liberal, nationalise railways, regulate energy markets and radically transform welfare to be supportive not punitive. But I just do not buy, nor I am naive enough to think, that independence makes that any more likely than in the union.

 

The Conservative Party at the moment is as Thatcherite as it ever has been.  The "surge" in Tory support in Scotland is not down to policy, IMO, but people who value the Union over policy, politics etc.  And that has peaked, or at least plateaued (again IMO).

 

Das Kapital?  Ha, I can't see much if any of it being implemented (although many of the ten points in the Communist Manifesto have been!) ever, and I certainly don't believe that an independnet Scotland would become a socialist utopia.  What I do thinkk though is that the Labour Party could reinvent itself instead of being in this limbo as a result of the main UK party, and the Scottish Leadership's will to follow it.

 

What you seek is pretty much what I'd like to see, more or less.  I just think that independence gives you a better route towards it, because you are not going to get a centre, let alone a centre left, govt at Westminster anytime soon.

[Boris]

No way mate.   You think May would trial a new tax in Scotland first?   Thatcher would have said no Indy2 for a generation. Full stop.   May is treading a more acceptable path.

 

Davidson has already said the rich should pay prescription charges in Scotland.  Sturgeon dismissed that.  May its Nicola who is more like Thatcher?  Joke.

 

Thatcher was hardcore mental and confrontational.  May and Davidson are not.

 

Well, we should probably agree to disagree.  If you look at how May's Govt is running the NHS, changing the rules on how to claim benefits etc it smacks of the same economic doctrine that Thatcher used.  That is what Thatcherism is.  Follow the money, so to speak.

[The Don]

Rudi,I think you are mental.

[jambo lodge]

Well, we should probably agree to disagree.  If you look at how May's Govt is running the NHS, changing the rules on how to claim benefits etc it smacks of the same economic doctrine that Thatcher used.  That is what Thatcherism is.  Follow the money, so to speak.

 

Having lived through Thatcherism my view of her and conservative policies are somewhat different to yours. When she came to power there is no doubt the Union tail was wagging the Labour Party dog who were in power. Most of the country, including Scotland, were delighted when she stood up to the Unions. Less government and more free market is not necessarily a bad thing, She however took it to the extremes and thought she could do no wrong. I personally don't think Theresa May is anything like as harsh and dogmatic as Thatcher was.

Encouraging those on benefits back to work..... surely a positive.

Increasing minimum wage to cut down tax credits .... surely a positive.

Record spending on the NHS when Immigration adds extra pressure each year...surely a positive. 

It should never be about following the money but getting best value for the taxpayer 

[Ron Burgundy]

Literally no one thinks that.

I know someone who does.

[Boris]

Having lived through Thatcherism my view of her and conservative policies are somewhat different to yours. When she came to power there is no doubt the Union tail was wagging the Labour Party dog who were in power. Most of the country, including Scotland, were delighted when she stood up to the Unions. Less government and more free market is not necessarily a bad thing, She however took it to the extremes and thought she could do no wrong. I personally don't think Theresa May is anything like as harsh and dogmatic as Thatcher was.

Encouraging those on benefits back to work..... surely a positive.

Increasing minimum wage to cut down tax credits .... surely a positive.

Record spending on the NHS when Immigration adds extra pressure each year...surely a positive. 

It should never be about following the money but getting best value for the taxpayer 

 

All for encouraging people back to work.  If they are fit and ready for it!  Simply stopping peoples support is hardly encouragement!

All for increasing the minimum wage.  Let's see it enforced!

Ah, all those pesky immigrants putting pressure in the NHS.  Can you validate your comment?  Show me where in black and white in states that the pressure faced by the NHS is down to immigrants.  Remember it cuts both ways, take immigrants who work in the NHS out too and see where the stress points are.

 

All for best value for the taxpayer.  Equally all for the taxpayer paying what is rightfully due, legally, morally etc

 

I'll disagree that more free market and less government is necessarily a good thing.  Some things can't simply be marketised, or rather, simply shouldn't be.

[deesidejambo]

All for encouraging people back to work.  If they are fit and ready for it!  Simply stopping peoples support is hardly encouragement!

All for increasing the minimum wage.  Let's see it enforced!

Ah, all those pesky immigrants putting pressure in the NHS.  Can you validate your comment?  Show me where in black and white in states that the pressure faced by the NHS is down to immigrants.  Remember it cuts both ways, take immigrants who work in the NHS out too and see where the stress points are.

 

All for best value for the taxpayer.  Equally all for the taxpayer paying what is rightfully due, legally, morally etc

 

I'll disagree that more free market and less government is necessarily a good thing.  Some things can't simply be marketised, or rather, simply shouldn't be.

Id suggest its the ageing population thats putting the stress on the NHS.    More wrinklies with more and more medical problems.

 

Whats your views on the proposed further increase to state pension age?

[jambo lodge]

All for encouraging people back to work.  If they are fit and ready for it!  Simply stopping peoples support is hardly encouragement!

All for increasing the minimum wage.  Let's see it enforced!

Ah, all those pesky immigrants putting pressure in the NHS.  Can you validate your comment?  Show me where in black and white in states that the pressure faced by the NHS is down to immigrants.  Remember it cuts both ways, take immigrants who work in the NHS out too and see where the stress points are.

 

All for best value for the taxpayer.  Equally all for the taxpayer paying what is rightfully due, legally, morally etc

 

I'll disagree that more free market and less government is necessarily a good thing.  Some things can't simply be marketised, or rather, simply shouldn't be.

 

From 2001 to 2011 net immigration in the UK was 250,000 per year. It is madness to suggest that creating a new city with population the size of Southampton each year doesn't put extra pressure on Housing, NHS and Education. Even if there is a net tax benefit annually it will in no way cover the extra capital and revenue spend required to service the new growth. Add to that the ageing population and you have identified the problems of the NHS.

 

I agree there are certain services which would be better nationalised, The rail network and Electrical generation. Nationalisation however is not the answer to everything.    

[Boris]

Id suggest its the ageing population thats putting the stress on the NHS.    More wrinklies with more and more medical problems.

 

Whats your views on the proposed further increase to state pension age?

 

Not the immigrants?

 

An aging population and a political and economic culture that has festered over the last 40 years meaning we have become a self entitled society where we expect public services, but don't want to pay for them.

 

And when those that deliver them seek recourse in the only way that they have left i.e. strike action, they are the ones to blame.  

 

Regards the increase in the state pension age?  I'm 45 at the moment, my state pension age is 67.  I actually wonder if in 22 years time there will be one there for me to collect.

 

The support and infrastructure of this country has been allowed to slowly disintegrate.  Sad, really.

[Boris]

From 2001 to 2011 net immigration in the UK was 250,000 per year. It is madness to suggest that creating a new city with population the size of Southampton each year doesn't put extra pressure on Housing, NHS and Education. Even if there is a net tax benefit annually it will in no way cover the extra capital and revenue spend required to service the new growth. Add to that the ageing population and you have identified the problems of the NHS.

 

I agree there are certain services which would be better nationalised, The rail network and Electrical generation. Nationalisation however is not the answer to everything.    

 

Sorry, but I'm not having that.  I'm not denying that in certain places a population boom could cause stress, but it's not equally distributed across the country, and yet the NHS is still messed.

 

My view is that you can trace this back to 1979 and the Conservative governments introduction of reforms in the 1980's.  We are reaping the benefits of these policies now and have fallen so far behind that to even stay with heads above water, the cost is massive.  Nothing to do with immigrants, just piss poor policy over the last 40 years.

[The Tartan Trump]

I am far too young for Thatcher. Was born the month she was kicked out by her cabinet, so I have a disconnect to it. My parents were both affected badly by her politics and share similar views. That's why I think Tories do not get a break as easily here because she represents them no matter what now.

 

For better or worse I think it's becoming quite stale and whilst I have no time for Tory policies I think the need to have a better debate around policy in Scotland between left and right rather than yoon or indy could be good for a very lazy centre-left in Scotland which hasn't come up with a new idea since free personal care.

 

I'm slightly older than you but similar situations. My family was badly affected also. The Tories will always struggle to shake off the toxic tag. I can see a rebranded centre-right doing quite well post indy. I wouldn't mind a centre-right party taking power in iScotland as it would mean that the Scottish people had voted them in. We could then vote them out again as we realise they're still pretty much Tories.

 

I agree with your second point. Until the constitutional stuff is settled it's not going to change. SNP gonna SNP and try to run the country whilst aiming for indy. The Tories are going to oppose everything, their whole campaign last year was built on opposing the SNP. Labour are caught between the two and struggling.

[jambos are go!]

Literally no one thinks that.

Maybe so. But the link also clearly shows that the SNP did not get rid of PFI they only rebranded it. No doubt we  will get more posts that ignore or ignorant of that. Can we rely on you to join in on rebutting that delusion?

[The Tartan Trump]

I would agree that Cameron and May weren't as bad as Thatcher, however I'm sure everyone can see the lurch to the right over the past year with the swivelled eyed fringe and the Tory press now the tail wagging the dog.

 

Boris was right about the support in Scotland, it's the core Unionist vote that are now voting Tory regardless of their other policies.

[Thunderstruck]

I'll disagree that more free market and less government is necessarily a good thing. Some things can't simply be marketised, or rather, simply shouldn't be.

We have to have a blend of state ownership and the benefits of the good that market forces can bring (innovation, efficiency and good management practices).

 

Take a look to our European neighbours. The NHS in this country is not in the "Top 10" but countries like Germany have Health Services that are. There you will find a health service with significant private sector input and where total spent on Health, in GDP terms, is about 25% higher in the U.K.

 

There is general agreement that there is a need for reform in the NHS and treating it as some sacred cow is not going to hasten meaningful change. Staying in the EU would likely hasten a move away from a national health service of the UK variety - something the ""getting dragged out of Europe against our will" believers could benefit from considering.

 

For utilities and to take rail as an example, di we revert to the former British Rail model or, instead, opt for the SNCF or Deutsche Bahn models? Incidentally, both companies with market presence in the U.K. - DB has Arriva and DB Schenker, SNCF is involved in Eurostar.

 

I think it was you who mentioned Telecoms the other day. How would you propose that is re-nationalised? Would it also involve the expropriation of significant competitors to BT such as Virgin Media or Vodafone/Cable & Wireless?

 

The World has changed since the 70's/80's and good old-fashioned nationalised industry has had its day. It is a shibboleth of unreconstructed old-style lefties - the Corbynistas of this world.

 

Yes, the state can have a share or even be the sole shareholder but the days of running these utilities like a glorified bowling club are thankfully long gone.

[jambo lodge]

Sorry, but I'm not having that.  I'm not denying that in certain places a population boom could cause stress, but it's not equally distributed across the country, and yet the NHS is still messed.

 

My view is that you can trace this back to 1979 and the Conservative governments introduction of reforms in the 1980's.  We are reaping the benefits of these policies now and have fallen so far behind that to even stay with heads above water, the cost is massive.  Nothing to do with immigrants, just piss poor policy over the last 40 years.

 

So an immigrant influx of 2.5m over ten years has no affect on the NHS, its all the fault of government reforms in the 1980's .......which particular reforms caused  this crisis. Just for good measure , NHS spending in in England in 2009/10 rose by 4,4% but in Scotland it decreased by 1.2% despite Barnet consequentials.....is that also the Tories fault?  

[jack D and coke]

The Conservative Party at the moment is as Thatcherite as it ever has been. The "surge" in Tory support in Scotland is not down to policy, IMO, but people who value the Union over policy, politics etc. And that has peaked, or at least plateaued (again IMO).

 

Das Kapital? Ha, I can't see much if any of it being implemented (although many of the ten points in the Communist Manifesto have been!) ever, and I certainly don't believe that an independnet Scotland would become a socialist utopia. What I do thinkk though is that the Labour Party could reinvent itself instead of being in this limbo as a result of the main UK party, and the Scottish Leadership's will to follow it.

 

What you seek is pretty much what I'd like to see, more or less. I just think that independence gives you a better route towards it, because you are not going to get a centre, let alone a centre left, govt at Westminster anytime soon.

Scotland would probably end up like the ROI who haven't voted in a labour government from the moment they got their independence from Britain.

If anybody votes for Indy thinking Scotland will lurch left they need to come to grips imo.