Even More SNP Nonsense

[The Tartan Trump]

Scotland would probably end up like the ROI who haven't voted in a labour government from the moment they got their independence from Britain.

If anybody votes for Indy thinking Scotland will lurch left they need to come to grips imo.

I'm not so sure, I reckon we'd probably have alternating centre-left and centre right governments.

 

We won't lurch to the left, although I feel that the centre ground up here hasn't been dragged as far to the right as down south.

[jack D and coke]

I'm not so sure, I reckon we'd probably have alternating centre-left and centre right governments.

 

We won't lurch to the left, although I feel that the centre ground up here hasn't been dragged as far to the right as down south.

I just can't see it. No country surrounding us is left leaning and if we hope to attract businesses into Scotland post Indy a high taxing economy will go down like a lead balloon.

We will be directly competing with ROI and they will react as will England and rUK. There won't be any left leaning governments that will last long imo.

[Boris]

So an immigrant influx of 2.5m over ten years has no affect on the NHS, its all the fault of government reforms in the 1980's .......which particular reforms caused  this crisis. Just for good measure , NHS spending in in England in 2009/10 rose by 4,4% but in Scotland it decreased by 1.2% despite Barnet consequentials.....is that also the Tories fault?  

 

If you read what I'd written, I said that in some areas an increase in population may well have had an effect on the services.  What reforms?  The way budgets are dealt with.  Let Doctors be doctors and nurses be nurses and leave the bureaucracy to bureaucrats.

 

How the Scottish Govt spends it's money is up to them, and they will live or die by their actions.  Increased spending is always welcomed, as long as that spending is spent appropriately.

[Boris]

I'm not so sure, I reckon we'd probably have alternating centre-left and centre right governments.

 

We won't lurch to the left, although I feel that the centre ground up here hasn't been dragged as far to the right as down south.

 

Agreed.

[JamboX2]

You think???

 

Still bound by the same economic doctrines, still the same.

May is openly discussing implementing Ed Miliband's energy policy and discussing workers on boards and living wages. That is an anathema to Thatcher.

 

Not that I think she's in anyway a good PM but you can't just lazily accuse her (or Ruth) of being little Thatcherites. Those are the Peter Bones, Moggs, Cashs and Redwoods of the world.

[JamboX2]

The Conservative Party at the moment is as Thatcherite as it ever has been. The "surge" in Tory support in Scotland is not down to policy, IMO, but people who value the Union over policy, politics etc. And that has peaked, or at least plateaued (again IMO).

 

Das Kapital? Ha, I can't see much if any of it being implemented (although many of the ten points in the Communist Manifesto have been!) ever, and I certainly don't believe that an independnet Scotland would become a socialist utopia. What I do thinkk though is that the Labour Party could reinvent itself instead of being in this limbo as a result of the main UK party, and the Scottish Leadership's will to follow it.

 

What you seek is pretty much what I'd like to see, more or less. I just think that independence gives you a better route towards it, because you are not going to get a centre, let alone a centre left, govt at Westminster anytime soon.

See my other reply on May and Davidson and their politics.

 

But I disagree that independence makes it more likely. To me, the left and centre left needs to embrace coalitions, need to come up with a coherent narrative on how they see Britain or Scotland's futures and set out a clear and modern vision.

 

Corbyn is more of an 80s throwback than May. Sturgeon and the SNP are adopting a watered down, kilted, Blairism. None if it speaks to the real issues of the nation. Therein lies the challenge to the left wing.

[JamboX2]

Scotland would probably end up like the ROI who haven't voted in a labour government from the moment they got their independence from Britain.

If anybody votes for Indy thinking Scotland will lurch left they need to come to grips imo.

I tend to agree. A liberal centrist party v a conservative centrist party like Ireland and a fragmented left wing lending support as and when it's needed.

[The Tartan Trump]

See my other reply on May and Davidson and their politics.

 

But I disagree that independence makes it more likely. To me, the left and centre left needs to embrace coalitions, need to come up with a coherent narrative on how they see Britain or Scotland's futures and set out a clear and modern vision.

 

Corbyn is more of an 80s throwback than May. Sturgeon and the SNP are adopting a watered down, kilted, Blairism. None if it speaks to the real issues of the nation. Therein lies the challenge to the left wing.

 

The left and centre-left can't even embrace each other within the Labour party. Or provide a coherent narrative. The Blairite wing seem more interested in opposing the leadership and the SNP than the Tories.

 

Remind me again what Milliband and Labour's response was when Wood, Sturgeon and Lucas were proposing a 'progressive coalition'.

[Thunderstruck]

Literally no one thinks that.

"Literally no one" - "literally" means "actually", "without exaggeration"?

 

All that your response highlights is that -actually- you hadn't read the thread contents.

[Stuart Lyon]

How very generous of the Scottish Government

 

 

https://twitter.com/jamieross7/status/845274013844721664

 

Trying to buy their way into Europe?

[The Tartan Trump]

How very generous of the Scottish Government

 

 

https://twitter.com/jamieross7/status/845274013844721664

 

Trying to buy their way into Europe?

Another example of the bigoted and xenophobic SNP imo.

[Hasselhoff]

How very generous of the Scottish Government

 

 

https://twitter.com/jamieross7/status/845274013844721664

 

Trying to buy their way into Europe?

More like trying to buy as many votes for indyref 2 from EU citizens as they can.

[Space Mackerel]

More like trying to buy as many votes for indyref 2 from EU citizens as they can.

I think the EU vote is well in the SNP bank already.

[Hasselhoff]

I think the EU vote is well in the SNP bank already.

Once May pushes the indyref vote out beyond Brexit there is a good chance they won't be able to vote.

[deesidejambo]

Once May pushes the indyref vote out beyond Brexit there is a good chance they won't be able to vote.

They shouldn't be allowed anyway.

 

This is a sovereignty issue. Foreign nationals should not vote on sovereignty of another nation just because they happen to be there working at the time.

 

No way will May allow this nonsense.

[AlphonseCapone]

I just can't see it. No country surrounding us is left leaning and if we hope to attract businesses into Scotland post Indy a high taxing economy will go down like a lead balloon.

We will be directly competing with ROI and they will react as will England and rUK. There won't be any left leaning governments that will last long imo.

Very good assessment tbh.

[Space Mackerel]

Once May pushes the indyref vote out beyond Brexit there is a good chance they won't be able to vote.

You honestly think that people who have moved here and settled down, wherever they have came from will be denied a vote?

 

Utterly utterly deluded.

[AlphonseCapone]

"Literally no one" - "literally" means "actually", "without exaggeration"?

 

All that your response highlights is that -actually- you hadn't read the thread contents.

Or it highlights, unlike yourself, I recognise the internet is full of trolls and wind up merchants.

 

About 90% of SP's post for example are basically to wind up unionists and most fall for it.

[Space Mackerel]

They shouldn't be allowed anyway.

 

This is a sovereignty issue. Foreign nationals should not vote on sovereignty of another nation just because they happen to be there working at the time.

 

No way will May allow this nonsense.

What about all the English that have moved here?

Is that them kyboshed too?

[JamboX2]

The left and centre-left can't even embrace each other within the Labour party. Or provide a coherent narrative. The Blairite wing seem more interested in opposing the leadership and the SNP than the Tories.

 

Remind me again what Milliband and Labour's response was when Wood, Sturgeon and Lucas were proposing a 'progressive coalition'.

Equally when the Labour party offers it they get nothing back. It does not serve the Labour Party, or the SNP and Plaid to work with each other. PC and the SNP do not view a Labour government as much use to their aims. Which is fair.

[deesidejambo]

What about all the English that have moved here?

Is that them kyboshed too?

The English here are UK Citizens and this is a Uk Constitutional issue related to national sovereignty.

 

I go to Italy tomorrow to work for a while using the same rules as foreign nationals come to Scotland.

 

I would not expect to have a vote on the constitutional issues of Italy just because I work there under EU rules.

 

If foreign nationals apply for UK Citizenship then fine, but those who have no intent to do that should not vote on UK constitutional issues.

Edited March 24, 2017 by deesidejambo

[Space Mackerel]

The English here are UK Citizens and this is a Uk Constitutional issue related to national sovereignty.

 

I go to Italy tomorrow to work for a while using the same rules as foreign nationals come to Scotland.

 

I would not expect to have a vote on the constitutional issues of Italy just because I work there under EU rules.

 

If foreign nationals apply for UK Citizenship then fine, but those who have no intent to do that should not vote on UK constitutional issues.

So if you were living in Italy and made it your home for whatever time period, you wouldn't be pissed off when they told you you weren't get a vote and were getting booted back to Brexit Blighty?

[deesidejambo]

So if you were living in Italy and made it your home for whatever time period, you wouldn't be pissed off when they told you you weren't get a vote and were getting booted back to Brexit Blighty?

That's the price of free movement of people. It doesn't confer a right to dictate or influence the sovereignty of another nation.

 

You remember that as I work in the EU for a lot of the winter then Brexit doesn't help me. But I still don't think I should have a say in constitutional issues of different countries.

 

For those who settle in Scotland that's different. They can and do apply for citizenship and in that case voting on constitutional issues is legitimate

[Space Mackerel]

That's the price of free movement of people. It doesn't confer a right to dictate or influence the sovereignty of another nation.

 

You remember that as I work in the EU for a lot of the winter then Brexit doesn't help me. But I still don't think I should have a say in constitutional issues of different countries.

 

For those who settle in Scotland that's different. They can and do apply for citizenship and in that case voting on constitutional issues is legitimate

You will be classed as a temporary resident or a seasonal worker there, much like these Romanians and Albanians who come to pick fruit in Perthshire and Angus in Scotland.

[deesidejambo]

You will be classed as a temporary resident or a seasonal worker there, much like these Romanians and Albanians who come to pick fruit in Perthshire and Angus in Scotland.

Indeed but the principle that I think is fair is that sovereignty issues of a nation should be decided by the people of that nation.

 

And the best way to define that is by the specific nationality of the individuals who reside there.

 

The EU is not a country, it is a collection of individual nations who have agreed to allow people to move between them. But that is not the same as allowing peeps to determine Sovereignty issues in whatever country they choose to move to.

 

Imo of course. We no doubt will not agree on this.

[Boris]

The English here are UK Citizens and this is a Uk Constitutional issue related to national sovereignty.

I go to Italy tomorrow to work for a while using the same rules as foreign nationals come to Scotland.

I would not expect to have a vote on the constitutional issues of Italy just because I work there under EU rules.

If foreign nationals apply for UK Citizenship then fine, but those who have no intent to do that should not vote on UK constitutional issues.

No taxation without representation.

[Space Mackerel]

Indeed but the principle that I think is fair is that sovereignty issues of a nation should be decided by the people of that nation.

 

And the best way to define that is by the specific nationality of the individuals who reside there.

 

The EU is not a country, it is a collection of individual nations who have agreed to allow people to move between them. But that is not the same as allowing peeps to determine Sovereignty issues in whatever country they choose to move to.

 

Imo of course. We no doubt will not agree on this.

I'm sure the voting rights are determined fair and square, like they have been for the previous god knows how many referendums and elections.

 

It's you that's trying to manipulate it for your own interests and for totally obvious reasons.

 

And as someone who spends their working life in the French/Swiss/Italian Alps for 3-4 months of the year, you think you would embrace EU integration and support the only viable option and party to get that right back.

[deesidejambo]

No taxation without representation.

I agree foreign nationals should vote in elections but determining sovereignty issues is imo not the representation that was intended by the statement.

 

In the event of Indy happening they have a parachute back to their home country if they need it so they are taking less risk than citizens.

 

But I know is helps the Indy side so you can ignore that.

[deesidejambo]

I'm sure the voting rights are determined fair and square, like they have been for the previous god knows how many referendums and elections.

 

It's you that's trying to manipulate it for your own interests and for totally obvious reasons.

 

And as someone who spends their working life in the French/Swiss/Italian Alps for 3-4 months of the year, you think you would embrace EU integration and support the only viable option and party to get that right back.

I voted Remain and I may suffer as a result of Brexit although the Company I work for seems to be not worried about it.

 

But imo it's the "Scottish People" who should decide.

 

Nobody played the racist card yet?

[Doogz]

No taxation without representation.

So would you allow retired ex-pats living outside Scotland - who pay have their pensions taxed in the UK - the right to vote ?

FWIW I just don't see an easy solution to the question of who can & can't vote.

[Space Mackerel]

I agree foreign nationals should vote in elections but determining sovereignty issues is imo not the representation that was intended by the statement.

 

In the event of Indy happening they have a parachute back to their home country if they need it so they are taking less risk than citizens.

 

But I know is helps the Indy side so you can ignore that.

Next you'll be wanting Brian and Brenda living in Benidorm a say no doubt.

[deesidejambo]

So would you allow retired ex-pats living outside Scotland - who pay have their pensions taxed in the UK - the right to vote ?

FWIW I just don't see an easy solution to the question of who can & can't vote.

It should be anyone with a vested interest. Foreign nationals can and do apply for citizenship as evidence of vesting. Nothing stopping them from doing that.

[deesidejambo]

Next you'll be wanting Brian and Brenda living in Benidorm a say no doubt.

Nope. No vested interest. Good try though.

[Space Mackerel]

I voted Remain and I may suffer as a result of Brexit although the Company I work for seems to be not worried about it.

 

But imo it's the "Scottish People" who should decide.

 

Nobody played the racist card yet?

Racist card??

 

The Scottish people will be the people resident here exactly the same way as the last referendum was done. Any other way would incite certain elements and lead to a breakdown of democracy, North Korea style as some poster on here can't keep mentioning.

[deesidejambo]

Racist card??

 

The Scottish people will be the people resident here exactly the same way as the last referendum was done. Any other way would incite certain elements and lead to a breakdown of democracy, North Korea style as some poster on here can't keep mentioning.

The will of the Polish people will not be denied.

 

Anyway you seen that Coleman tackle?

[Space Mackerel]

The will of the Polish people will not be denied.

 

Anyway you seen that Coleman tackle?

Who quoted that?

 

And I have the game on but not really watching it tbh. Just listening really.

[deesidejambo]

Who quoted that?

 

And I have the game on but not really watching it tbh. Just listening really.

Leg broken. Cert.

[Space Mackerel]

Leg broken. Cert.

I was gonna watch this in the pub then remembered I'm at Murrayfield the morn for this Rudi Skacel dinner thing.

[deesidejambo]

I was gonna watch this in the pub then remembered I'm at Murrayfield the morn for this Rudi Skacel dinner thing.

Enjoy! Some of us have to work!

[Space Mackerel]

Enjoy! Some of us have to work!

You're no puttin up posters in Govanhill again are ya? [emoji12]

[deesidejambo]

You're no puttin up posters in Govanhill again are ya? [emoji12]

I'll take a few out to Italy. They love that sort of stuff over there.

[Space Mackerel]

I'll take a few out to Italy. They love that sort of stuff over there.

Not here though...you've been warned. I dunno what Italian is for getting yer heid kicked in.

 

http://www.scotsman.com/lifestyle/travel/welcome-to-barga-the-most-scottish-town-in-italy-1-4238742

[Spencer]

Any footage on here of WJK response to Neil Findlay the other day.

 

She looked a bit lost for words

[Stuart Lyon]

From an article titled "Magician McAlpine Makes Facts Disappear" in today's Sunday Times

 

?Had to split it into 2 because of the size - Part 1

 

[Stuart Lyon]

Part 2

 

[Space Mackerel]

From an article titled "Magician McAlpine Makes Facts Disappear" in today's Sunday Times

 

?Had to split it into 2 because of the size - Part 1

 

GERS1.jpg

Part 2

 

Gers2.jpg

So let's get this straight, what you and this author is claiming, that the figures for the respective countries within the U.K are responsible for this breakdown of the collective debt.

 

[Sidsnot]

From an article titled "Magician McAlpine Makes Facts Disappear" in today's Sunday Times

 

?Had to split it into 2 because of the size - Part 1

 

GERS1.jpg

I hate to spoil your Sunday night but......https://www.ft.com/content/7448d5be-108d-11e7-a88c-50ba212dce4d

[Thunderstruck]

I hate to spoil your Sunday night but......https://www.ft.com/content/7448d5be-108d-11e7-a88c-50ba212dce4d

Wouldn't want to p*** on your chips but this is not really fresh news. Hurricane has been getting good results from exploratory wells for some months yet the news hasn't elevated oil above "bonus" status in Nationalist circles.

 

The wells are, however, West of Shetland - an area that is considerably more expensive to exploit than the North Sea. Economic recovery will require a sustained price level much higher than that of today.

 

The good news for the Nats is that if every drop of oil was recoverable (it won't be) and was extracted in a single year (impossible), the tax revenues might just cover the current deficit for ONE year. That ignores the capital allowances that would be given to encourage the development of the fields.

 

A tip - don't follow Salmond's notion that size of reservoir = recoverable oil/gas or that wholesale price = tax revenue. It's hard to believe he used to be paid as an "expert" in the oil industry.

[Space Mackerel]

Wouldn't want to p*** on your chips but this is not really fresh news. Hurricane has been getting good results from exploratory wells for some months yet the news hasn't elevated oil above "bonus" status in Nationalist circles.

 

The wells are, however, West of Shetland - an area that is considerably more expensive to exploit than the North Sea. Economic recovery will require a sustained price level much higher than that of today.

 

The good news for the Nats is that if every drop of oil was recoverable (it won't be) and was extracted in a single year (impossible), the tax revenues might just cover the current deficit for ONE year. That ignores the capital allowances that would be given to encourage the development of the fields.

 

A tip - don't follow Salmond's notion that size of reservoir = recoverable oil/gas or that wholesale price = tax revenue. It's hard to believe he used to be paid as an "expert" in the oil industry.

This makes you wonder why Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Norway, USA, Venezuela, Kuwait, Malaysia and a whole host of other countries bother at all.

 

Yep, the old shite oil argument comes back again for the 100th time on this thread.

[jambos are go!]

This makes you wonder why Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Norway, USA, Venezuela, Kuwait, Malaysia and a wit tole host of other countries bother at all.

Yep, the old shite oil argument comes back again for the 100th time on this thread.

Just as many bring it up from both sides of the arguement.IIRC You have salivated when there was signs of a spike in the oil price. Its dropped as many times as it has risen.

 

The basic fact is that when the oil price collapsed the UK Economy was able to protect Scotland from probably dire consequences. Better together in action.