Even More SNP Nonsense

[Arnold Rothstein]

Summary- darian failed because the English crooked it

 

Thanks Doc. I had the feeling that was the direction it was heading from reading the first paragraph.

[Boris]

 and why would our trade with the 500 mil stop, which is what spaced oot was implying, and is the reason he's pro EU.

 

 

 

the fact that our biggest market is the UK and not the EU would make it more logical to remain in the UK, unfortunately theres never been anything logical about the separatist movement, its all bluster and flag waving.

 

being out of the EU would also open up a worldwide market without imposed EU restrictions.

 

I certainly don't think trade will stop.  It's more about the T's&C's of such trade - what the deal is.

 

I still don't see why it's more logical to remain in the UK.  You said yourself that trade would go on, so...

[Pans Jambo]

And so they should

Its based on "bringing forward " funding- ie borrowing from future budgets, using "reserves" ie the councils rainy day funds, and all to avoid increasing council tax.

ie dont increase the money available to pay for all these actually good ideas- just borrow it instead

I always understood the 'reserves'to be the millions they have squirreled away for a rainy day. I know they lost a good few ?M when the Icelandic banks collapsed.

[reaths17]

I certainly don't think trade will stop.  It's more about the T's&C's of such trade - what the deal is.

 

I still don't see why it's more logical to remain in the UK.  You said yourself that trade would go on, so...

it would make more sense the spaced oots plan, don't you think ?

 

and as I said, we would be free from EU restrictions to trade worldwide.

[Hasselhoff]

I certainly don't think trade will stop.  It's more about the T's&C's of such trade - what the deal is.

 

I still don't see why it's more logical to remain in the UK.  You said yourself that trade would go on, so...

 

Difference is that we currently have a lot of trade with the rest of the UK. We don't have a lot of trade with the EU. 

 

It's like quitting a job where you have the perfect skills for the job (location, common language, local knowledge, shared history) so you can go looking for another job along with 28 other people with identical skills to yourself but they are the better fit.

[Boris]

it would make more sense the spaced oots plan, don't you think ?

 

and as I said, we would be free from EU restrictions to trade worldwide.

 

Or able to tag on to EU trade deals and trade globally using them?

Difference is that we currently have a lot of trade with the rest of the UK. We don't have a lot of trade with the EU. 

 

It's like quitting a job where you have the perfect skills for the job (location, common language, local knowledge, shared history) so you can go looking for another job along with 28 other people with identical skills to yourself but they are the better fit.

 

Yes, but why would that trade with rUK diminish?  We would still trade with rUK, wouldn't we?

[jambo lodge]

 

Why would our trade with rUK immediately stop if Scotland were to become independent and part of the EU?

 

You sound like Alex Salmond, it will be in Britain's interest for the Scots ( SNP ) to keep the pound, have free trade with the very nation that wants to be rid of you, preferring instead to trust our brothers in Lithuania, Poland, Romania etc to give us a great deal in the EU replacing the Barnet formula that we have depended on for years. Aye right.   

[reaths17]

Or able to tag on to EU trade deals and trade globally using them?

 

Yes, but why would that trade with rUK diminish?  We would still trade with rUK, wouldn't we?

we're in the EU now and that's not happening in any great quantity, hence the 80% with the UK.

 

why would Europeans suddenly start buy/selling just because we're out of the UK, they don't seem to keen now and  that's providing we overcome the objections to get in. 80% of your commerce is a huge amount to jepordise, in any sensible argument imo.

Edited February 27, 2017 by reaths17

[Boris]

we're in the EU now and that's not happening in any great quantity, hence the 80% with the UK.

 

why would Europeans suddenly start buy/selling just because we're out of the UK, they don't seem to keen now and  that's providing we overcome the objections to get in. 80% of your commerce is a huge amount to jepordise, in any sensible argument imo.

 

Why would that 80% with rUK disappear?

[doctor jambo]

Why would that 80% with rUK disappear?

because we would become just another nation with the Euro, so why would they traded preferentially with the neighbour over the fence who just flicked them the vickies?

[Bazzas right boot]

Scottish Labour?s attitude to a second referendum is political suicide They don?t understand that independence is the only lever we have to affect policy at Westminster. Even if they are ideologically against independence, which is fair enough, keeping the option open gives Scottish politicians more power over the Brexit process. It?s so blindingly obvious that it?s embarrassing to think about what must go through the minds of Scottish Labour strategists.

 

Ian Murray?s solution is the old nugget of a Federal UK. We have been down this road before

Don?t get me wrong, I like the idea but it?s not going to happen. It?s not going to happen for the same reason that we are being dragged out of the EU against our will. For the same reason we seldom get the governments we vote for in Scotland. For the same reason we can?t remain in the European Single Market. It?s not going to happen because it?s not what England wants and Scotland doesn?t have the power to change this.

 

Furthermore, there is no UK political party capable or willing to deliver a Federal UK. So Scottish Labour and their one MP can bang on about it all they wish. They won?t get it if they don?t have any leverage to persuade the bulk of Westminster MP?s who represent constituencies that don?t want a federation. By pretending no mandate exists for independence Scottish Labour forego that leverage. The fact that the mandate is blatant makes them look stupid.

It?s a stupidity they will pay for harshly at the local council elections.

Edited February 27, 2017 by Tosh'sleftfoot

[jambo lodge]

Scottish Labour?s attitude to a second referendum is political suicide They don?t understand that independence is the only lever we have to affect policy at Westminster. Even if they are ideologically against independence, which is fair enough, keeping the option open gives Scottish politicians more power over the Brexit process. It?s so blindingly obvious that it?s embarrassing to think about what must go through the minds of Scottish Labour strategists.

 

Ian Murray?s solution is the old nugget of a Federal UK. We have been down this road before

Don?t get me wrong, I like the idea but it?s not going to happen. It?s not going to happen for the same reason that we are being dragged out of the EU against our will. For the same reason we seldom get the governments we vote for in Scotland. For the same reason we can?t remain in the European Single Market. It?s not going to happen because it?s not what England wants and Scotland doesn?t have the power to change this.

 

Furthermore, there is no UK political party capable or willing to deliver a Federal UK. So Scottish Labour and their one MP can bang on about it all they wish. They won?t get it if they don?t have any leverage to persuade the bulk of Westminster MP?s who represent constituencies that don?t want a federation. By pretending no mandate exists for independence Scottish Labour forego that leverage. The fact that the mandate is blatant makes them look stupid.

It?s a stupidity they will pay for harshly at the local council elections.

 

Have always thought a federal system is the way forward for the UK, its not an " old nugget " either as its never really been debated before. If only the SNP could realise the benefits of a coalition with Labour they may well get a federal system for Scotland, much more likely than full independence. What's the point of an independent Scotland controlled by Europe, much better by far to have more freedom within the UK. 

[DanishTam10]

Scottish Labour?s attitude to a second referendum is political suicide They don?t understand that independence is the only lever we have to affect policy at Westminster. Even if they are ideologically against independence, which is fair enough, keeping the option open gives Scottish politicians more power over the Brexit process. It?s so blindingly obvious that it?s embarrassing to think about what must go through the minds of Scottish Labour strategists.

 

Ian Murray?s solution is the old nugget of a Federal UK. We have been down this road before

Don?t get me wrong, I like the idea but it?s not going to happen. It?s not going to happen for the same reason that we are being dragged out of the EU against our will. For the same reason we seldom get the governments we vote for in Scotland. For the same reason we can?t remain in the European Single Market. It?s not going to happen because it?s not what England wants and Scotland doesn?t have the power to change this.

 

Furthermore, there is no UK political party capable or willing to deliver a Federal UK. So Scottish Labour and their one MP can bang on about it all they wish. They won?t get it if they don?t have any leverage to persuade the bulk of Westminster MP?s who represent constituencies that don?t want a federation. By pretending no mandate exists for independence Scottish Labour forego that leverage. The fact that the mandate is blatant makes them look stupid.

It?s a stupidity they will pay for harshly at the local council elections.

 

Them/Us. They are doing baddie things as they are baddies. We are the good guys doing good things. 

[Space Mackerel]

Have always thought a federal system is the way forward for the UK, its not an " old nugget " either as its never really been debated before. If only the SNP could realise the benefits of a coalition with Labour they may well get a federal system for Scotland, much more likely than full independence. What's the point of an independent Scotland controlled by Europe, much better by far to have more freedom within the UK.

I don't want to join up with these Red Tories for any reason, Scotland is more than ample to stand on its own 2 feet.

 

The only way the Union is going to survive is through Federalism, but look what happened after the Vow, jack shit, in fact, I've a sneaking suspicion that they will try to take powers away after Brexit.

 

 

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[DanishTam10]

I don't want to join up with these Red Tories for any reason, Scotland is more than ample to stand on its own 2 feet.

 

The only way the Union is going to survive is through Federalism, but look what happened after the Vow, jack shit, in fact, I've a sneaking suspicion that they will try to take powers away after Brexit.

 

 

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This thread is called "Even more SNP nonsense"

 

You are illustrating it well. 

[Space Mackerel]

This thread is called "Even more SNP nonsense"

 

You are illustrating it well.

Jack D was right, you offer nothing to the debate.

 

As we say in Scotland, a total dunderheid.

 

 

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[DanishTam10]

I don't want to join up with these Red Tories for any reason, Scotland is more than ample to stand on its own 2 feet.

 

The only way the Union is going to survive is through Federalism, but look what happened after the Vow, jack shit, in fact, I've a sneaking suspicion that they will try to take powers away after Brexit.

 

 

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Jack D was right, you offer nothing to the debate.

 

As we say in Scotland, a total dunderheid.

 

 

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Saying "Red Tories" is the sign of an immature mind. It just isn't a real thing. 

 

You regularly avoid answering questions asked of you in a conversation.

 

I am happy to discuss this matter with you, yet I see you desert conversations. 

 

Now, you are reduced to the tactic of dismissing me.

 

Even more snp nonsense.

[Arnold Rothstein]

Saying "Red Tories" is the sign of an immature mind. It just isn't a real thing. 

 

You regularly avoid answering questions asked of you in a conversation.

 

I am happy to discuss this matter with you, yet I see you desert conversations. 

 

Now, you are reduced to the tactic of dismissing me.

 

Even more snp nonsense.

 

Bangs to right.

[deesidejambo]

Saying "Red Tories" is the sign of an immature mind. It just isn't a real thing. 

 

You regularly avoid answering questions asked of you in a conversation.

 

I am happy to discuss this matter with you, yet I see you desert conversations. 

 

Now, you are reduced to the tactic of dismissing me.

 

Even more snp nonsense.

Mate he thinks the Pentagon was hit by a missile full of corpses fired by the US Govt.   Good luck debating with him.

[Arnold Rothstein]

Mate he thinks the Pentagon was hit by a missile full of corpses fired by the US Govt.   Good luck debating with him.

 

 

I'd forgotten about that.

[jambo lodge]

I don't want to join up with these Red Tories for any reason, Scotland is more than ample to stand on its own 2 feet.

 

The only way the Union is going to survive is through Federalism, but look what happened after the Vow, jack shit, in fact, I've a sneaking suspicion that they will try to take powers away after Brexit.

 

 

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Think it was the SNP that was supported by the Tories under Alex Salmond's rule.

 

Which part of the Smith Commission ( which followed the vow and in which the SNP was a full partner ) was not implemented? 

[Space Mackerel]

Think it was the SNP that was supported by the Tories under Alex Salmond's rule.

 

Which part of the Smith Commission ( which followed the vow and in which the SNP was a full partner ) was not implemented?

SNP supported by the Torys?

When's that ever happened? [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]

 

 

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[DanishTam10]

SNP supported by the Torys?

When's that ever happened? [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]

 

 

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SNP supported Tories, in 1979.

 

2007-2011 Holyrood Parliament, tories supported snp

 

Do you not know this?

[Space Mackerel]

SNP supported Tories, in 1979.

 

2007-2011 Holyrood Parliament, tories supported snp

 

Do you not know this?

And the Torys would've supported the Labour Party back in 2007?

 

Now they would but Labour are on 15% in the polls and heading to the scrap heap.

 

 

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[DanishTam10]

SNP supported by the Torys?

When's that ever happened? [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]

 

 

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And the Torys would've supported the Labour Party back in 2007?

 

Now they would but Labour are on 15% in the polls and heading to the scrap heap.

 

 

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You are doing your relativistic thing again. 

 

SNP and Conservatives have supported each other for decades. 

 

Face up to it. It is a fact. 

[Space Mackerel]

You are doing your relativistic thing again.

 

SNP and Conservatives have supported each other for decades.

 

Face up to it. It is a fact.

More Yoon pish.

 

 

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[DanishTam10]

More Yoon pish.

 

 

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Now you are doing the thing where you "REJECT ha ha ha" the point.

 

It does not change history. SNP have supported Conservatives, Conservatives have supported SNP.  That is fact. They did. 

[jambo lodge]

Which part of the Smith Commission was not implemented SP ?

[Space Mackerel]

Now you are doing the thing where you "REJECT ha ha ha" the point.

 

It does not change history. SNP have supported Conservatives, Conservatives have supported SNP. That is fact. They did.

I don't think you understand how the Holyrood elections were/are set up tbh. Showing your political ignorance for the umpteenth time on this thread.

 

 

 

 

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[DanishTam10]

I don't think you understand how the Holyrood elections were/are set up tbh. Showing your political ignorance for the umpteenth time on this thread.

 

 

 

 

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To be honest, that wasn't a thing that anyone was talking about, until you skidded further away from the conversation.

[JamboX2]

Why would that 80% with rUK disappear?

If the UK is out of the EU and we are in it then we are bound to treat UK trade as the rest of the EU does. If that means 20% WTO Tariffs then it's that. There'd be no special deal to keep the internal UK market as it is.

 

The trade won't go. But due to tariffs it'll be more expensive. Because of that it'll drop. Because of that there'd be a possible contraction in both economies.

[JamboX2]

SNP supported by the Torys?

When's that ever happened? [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]

 

 

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Annabelle Goldie backed many an SNP budget between 07-11.

[JamboX2]

Scottish Labour?s attitude to a second referendum is political suicide They don?t understand that independence is the only lever we have to affect policy at Westminster. Even if they are ideologically against independence, which is fair enough, keeping the option open gives Scottish politicians more power over the Brexit process. It?s so blindingly obvious that it?s embarrassing to think about what must go through the minds of Scottish Labour strategists.

 

Ian Murray?s solution is the old nugget of a Federal UK. We have been down this road before

Don?t get me wrong, I like the idea but it?s not going to happen. It?s not going to happen for the same reason that we are being dragged out of the EU against our will. For the same reason we seldom get the governments we vote for in Scotland. For the same reason we can?t remain in the European Single Market. It?s not going to happen because it?s not what England wants and Scotland doesn?t have the power to change this.

 

Furthermore, there is no UK political party capable or willing to deliver a Federal UK. So Scottish Labour and their one MP can bang on about it all they wish. They won?t get it if they don?t have any leverage to persuade the bulk of Westminster MP?s who represent constituencies that don?t want a federation. By pretending no mandate exists for independence Scottish Labour forego that leverage. The fact that the mandate is blatant makes them look stupid.

It?s a stupidity they will pay for harshly at the local council elections.

What's the blatant mandate?

[pablo]

Saying "Red Tories" is the sign of an immature mind. It just isn't a real thing.

 

You regularly avoid answering questions asked of you in a conversation.

 

I am happy to discuss this matter with you, yet I see you desert conversations.

 

Now, you are reduced to the tactic of dismissing me.

 

Even more snp nonsense.

But it's what they do. Toaries, Red Toaries, Quislings, Traitors, Westmonster.

 

They have to invent enemies, and bundle them all together to allow them to have the them / us conversation.

 

Now, every Scot who doesn't support them is a Yoon. It's just bullshit.

[doctor jambo]

The difficulty that Scotland now faces ( and has for some time) is that the "45" are stuck

Ideologically they cannot change their demands, and nor would they.

The problem they have is trying to get those in the "55" to commit fiscal suicide to follow an ideology that they are not on board with enough to accept a drop in living standards.

No- one ( for once ) is arguing for independence on an economic basis which is telling.

And until such a time as this is possible, the waverers in the "55" will stick with the head, over the heart.

And as Scotland is, by nature, quite conservative in its outlook, its going to take a lot of economic persuasion to get us to give up our money to realise independence

[Pans Jambo]

The difficulty that Scotland now faces ( and has for some time) is that the "45" are stuck

Ideologically they cannot change their demands, and nor would they.

The problem they have is trying to get those in the "55" to commit fiscal suicide to follow an ideology that they are not on board with enough to accept a drop in living standards.

No- one ( for once ) is arguing for independence on an economic basis which is telling.

And until such a time as this is possible, the waverers in the "55" will stick with the head, over the heart.

And as Scotland is, by nature, quite conservative in its outlook, its going to take a lot of economic persuasion to get us to give up our money to realise independence

What a load of utter pish.

 

Your argument being that independence means a 'drop in living standards' for folk north of Hadrians wall. Is that it?

 

Why? 

 

Wait, is it because you maw in Westminster wont give us any of their hard earned cash anymore? Is that it?

 

Lets say theres a better way and being tied to an unelected parliament that no longer cares for this country or its wishes is now so far out of kilter, that a change is required?

[reaths17]

What a load of utter pish.

 

Your argument being that independence means a 'drop in living standards' for folk north of Hadrians wall. Is that it?

 

Why? 

 

Wait, is it because you maw in Westminster wont give us any of their hard earned cash anymore? Is that it?

 

Lets say theres a better way and being tied to an unelected parliament that no longer cares for this country or its wishes is now so far out of kilter, that a change is required?

or maybe its because you separatists havn't shown anything looking like a workable economic policy, and just wander aimlessly around waving flags, yelling in a demented voice "freedom and down with Westminster".

 

 

I never voted in the SNP, so their unelected to me.

 

just because you didn't vote for the tories, doesn't negate everybody elses vote just because they didn't agree with you.

 

someone will always lose and you are it

Edited February 28, 2017 by reaths17

[Pans Jambo]

or maybe its because you separatists havn't shown anything looking like a workable economic policy, and just wander aimlessly around waving flags, yelling in a demented voice "freedom and down with Westminster".

 

 

I never voted in the SNP, so their unelected to me.

 

just because you didn't vote for the tories, doesn't negate everybody elses vote just because they didn't agree with you.

 

someone will always lose and you are it

Even more pish!

 

The difference is I see Scotland as a country that can and should stand up for itself. You lot see it as mere region of 'Northern Britain'. I think the opportunities are limitless whereas you lot see them as limited without Mummy N' Daddy in London.

 

When you say I lose, I think the clear majority loses up here. How many times has this 'region' got what they voted for at Westminster in the last 2 generations? 

 

If you see that as a win then it's pointless even debating on here. I would think even if oil was at $250 a barrel and half of London's banks moved to Edinburgh you would still say 'No' anyway. Lost cause.

[deesidejambo]

Well at least Ecks White Paper that promised 24 billion barrels of oil to be produced at $120 per barrel is clearly garbage.   But the dafties will fall for anything.

[Arnold Rothstein]

I would think even if oil was at $250 a barrel and half of London's banks moved to Edinburgh you would still say 'No' anyway. Lost cause.

Which is his right btw. Independence seekers have this habit of not at all respecting another point of view. People can want to remain part of the UK for whatever reason they choose to. Can I understand and respect the position of those who want independence? Sure I can. Doesn't mean I have to share their desire.

[reaths17]

Even more pish!

 

The difference is I see Scotland as a country that can and should stand up for itself. You lot see it as mere region of 'Northern Britain'. I think the opportunities are limitless whereas you lot see them as limited without Mummy N' Daddy in London.

 

When you say I lose, I think the clear majority loses up here. How many times has this 'region' got what they voted for at Westminster in the last 2 generations? 

 

If you see that as a win then it's pointless even debating on here. I would think even if oil was at $250 a barrel and half of London's banks moved to Edinburgh you would still say 'No' anyway. Lost cause.

as the separatist movement is heavily based in the Strathclyde region, we in Edinburgh would be marginalised and lookin to mummy fish in the west.

 

the clear majority voted to remain part of the union and not your independent pish.

 

will you ever have some valid point to your independence, we all ask questions on here "what your point is" and get the same avoidance of the questions

[Pans Jambo]

as the separatist movement is heavily based in the Strathclyde region, we in Edinburgh would be marginalised and lookin to mummy fish in the west.

 

the clear majority voted to remain part of the union and not your independent pish.

 

will you ever have some valid point to your independence, we all ask questions on here "what your point is" and get the same avoidance of the questions

Really? With the parliament being in Edinburgh as well.

 

Valid point?

 

How about I believe Scotlands folk should look after Scotlands interests and should not have to ask to be allowed to do anything to some unelected parliament that hardly anyone up her voted for some 400 odd miles away that really doesn't give a shit about us other than our tax take, our natural resources and our cannon fodder young men for their illegal wars. Oh, and somewhere to store all that nice nuclear arsenal.

 

Whats your valid point for remaining? Battered housewife syndrome?

[deesidejambo]

Really? With the parliament being in Edinburgh as well.

 

Valid point?

 

How about I believe Scotlands folk should look after Scotlands interests and should not have to ask to be allowed to do anything to some unelected parliament that hardly anyone up her voted for some 400 odd miles away that really doesn't give a shit about us other than our tax take, our natural resources and our cannon fodder young men for their illegal wars. Oh, and somewhere to store all that nice nuclear arsenal.

 

Whats your valid point for remaining? Battered housewife syndrome?

You value freedom above economic health of the Nation.  That is a valid reason, no argument.

 

But you could also respect those who view the issue from an economic perspective, i..e Indy Scotland could well be poorer than being part of the big bad UK.  

 

Their reasons are different to yours but are no less valid.

[doctor jambo]

Really? With the parliament being in Edinburgh as well.

 

Valid point?

 

How about I believe Scotlands folk should look after Scotlands interests and should not have to ask to be allowed to do anything to some unelected parliament that hardly anyone up her voted for some 400 odd miles away that really doesn't give a shit about us other than our tax take, our natural resources and our cannon fodder young men for their illegal wars. Oh, and somewhere to store all that nice nuclear arsenal.

 

Whats your valid point for remaining? Battered housewife syndrome?

Because Scotland has no real economic vision that would prevent a problem for those of us who pay tax.

I am not "tied to Westminster"

however out "vast natural resources" are not, and have not for some years actually met the economic needs of "the people" hence the deficit.

Once there is a clear plan that demonstrates NOT that Scotland could survive on its own (of course it can) but do BETTER on its own  then I'd vote for it

I want to do MORE than merely "survive"

Greece is independent- its not doing them a whole lot of good.

Nor Poland, or any number of small countries in the EU- we would be far more likely to end like them than  a Norway

Or is there an SNP war chest?

What is the plan to plug the deficit , or create a surplus?

[reaths17]

Really? With the parliament being in Edinburgh as well.

 

Valid point?

 

How about I believe Scotlands folk should look after Scotlands interests and should not have to ask to be allowed to do anything to some unelected parliament that hardly anyone up her voted for some 400 odd miles away that really doesn't give a shit about us other than our tax take, our natural resources and our cannon fodder young men for their illegal wars. Oh, and somewhere to store all that nice nuclear arsenal.

 

Whats your valid point for remaining? Battered housewife syndrome?

the building may well reside in Edinburgh but I bet its full of weegies as that's where the most seats are.

 

the parliament was voted for, what is it you cant get, there was a vote the majority voted for them. whether their 400 miles away south or 50 miles west "we voted for them" scots folk

 

the fact your side didn't win more seats is tough cookie.

 

and again "we voted to remain" its called democracy.

[doctor jambo]

the building may well reside in Edinburgh but I bet its full of weegies as that's where the most seats are.

 

the parliament was voted for, what is it you cant get, there was a vote the majority voted for them. whether their 400 miles away south or 50 miles west "we voted for them" scots folk

 

the fact your side didn't win more seats is tough cookie.

 

and again "we voted to remain" its called democracy.

The difficulty is when you have a populist nationalist leader stirring up division to further her own agenda, by mobilising the disaffected with candy floss promises.....

All you would really be doing is moving from a deficit we owe to rUK to a deficit we owe to Germany

Once someone shows me an economic plan that would mean we are fiscally viable then I'm all over it

[Pans Jambo]

the building may well reside in Edinburgh but I bet its full of weegies as that's where the most seats are.

 

the parliament was voted for, what is it you cant get, there was a vote the majority voted for them. whether their 400 miles away south or 50 miles west "we voted for them" scots folk

 

the fact your side didn't win more seats is tough cookie.

 

and again "we voted to remain" its called democracy.

WE didnt vote for them. Middle England did. WE soundly rejected them at the ballot box.

 

Scotland did vote to remain but round 2 is on its way. Tick Tock.

[doctor jambo]

WE didnt vote for them. Middle England did. WE soundly rejected them at the ballot box.

 

Scotland did vote to remain but round 2 is on its way. Tick Tock.

There is an ill wind politically all across Europe

Nationalism is a real problem in most countries- I'm intrigued as to why our nationalism is seen as good, when everyone else's is seen as bad?

[reaths17]

The difficulty is when you have a populist nationalist leader stirring up division to further her own agenda, by mobilising the disaffected with candy floss promises.....

All you would really be doing is moving from a deficit we owe to rUK to a deficit we owe to Germany

Once someone shows me an economic plan that would mean we are fiscally viable then I'm all over it

their not interested or thinking about economy, its all Westminster/London this and that.

 

their last attempt at anything to do with economy was "use the bank of England pound", which they were told to spin on it.

[Pans Jambo]

Because Scotland has no real economic vision that would prevent a problem for those of us who pay tax.

I am not "tied to Westminster"

however out "vast natural resources" are not, and have not for some years actually met the economic needs of "the people" hence the deficit.

Once there is a clear plan that demonstrates NOT that Scotland could survive on its own (of course it can) but do BETTER on its own  then I'd vote for it

I want to do MORE than merely "survive"

Greece is independent- its not doing them a whole lot of good.

Nor Poland, or any number of small countries in the EU- we would be far more likely to end like them than  a Norway

Or is there an SNP war chest?

What is the plan to plug the deficit , or create a surplus?

I believe 'the deficit' is a crock of lies and misinformation. What's it supposed to be? ?12Bn or something? We pay around ?4Bn P/A on interest payments on loans we didnt make. Our whisky exports (25% of all food & drink exports in the UK BTW) are not counted as Scottish exports as they leave from English ports so theres another 3 or 4 ?Bn.

Probably a lot more hiding under in the closet too.

I think Scotland would thrive, why wouldnt it? The examples you gave being Greece and Poland just show the amount of disrespect you give your own country (sorry, region).