Thunderstruck Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 Yet NHS Scotland outperforms all other parts? Damnation by faint praise. In other words, "we are (allegedly) better than the ******* English and that's all that matters". You clearly aren't concerned that quality of care is declining. FFS, you don't even care that your Party of choice is diverting a couple of ?Billion of grant AWAY from NHSS - every year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maroonlegions Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 He's 100% right though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pans Jambo Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 THe NHS is in a worse state than ever IN Ayrshire one large practice has been taken over by the health board with 3-4 on the brink that's practices closing and folks having NO GP Even our immigrant GP's are emigrating Its a workload and pay issue Though mainly a workload issue The difficulty is that the demands are spiralling out of control, the complaints are rising and the public are getting more demanding So GP's are trying to retire as soon as they can, the young Docs are leaving the country, the females are refusing to return to full time work after maternity as doing the job full time is emotionally and physically really hard. Recently our union did a "stress test " on GP's re anxiety and depression MOre than 50 % of GP's randomly tested came back as severe anxiety, more than 30 % were clinically depressed. GP's have higher rates of mental illness than nearly any other profession, and I think it is the highest suicide rate of any profession Yet are massively less likely to take time off work..........mainly because we can't Yes the NHS is still functioning- but it is at massive cost to its staff- many of whom are literally destroying their own well being to keep things going for their patients. I've been NHS for 17 years now, and its deteriorating rapidly its about to domino several of my colleagues have jacked it in and left the country or just left their jobs to do something else Never wondered why there are so few EU Dr's in this country? Dont doubt a single word of that. Is the NHS in England shite because of the SNP though? The thing is, its been shite for over 50 years regardless of what colour is in power on either side of the border unyet, it marches on. Starve it if funds Watch it deteriorate Announce its no longer fit for purpose & issue warnings on performance Issue non achievable performance targets Offer zero new ivestments other than token gestures Watch it fail Open a debate on privatisation Pass a bill Privatise Thats whats coming. Same as: The Post office, Royal Mail, British Steel, British Telecom, British Aerospace, British Leyland, Gas, Electric, Water, shipbuilding, BP, Jaguar, Cable & Wireless, British Airways, BAA, Coal, British Ports, Britoil, National Freight & council housing stock etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maroonlegions Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 Damnation by faint praise. In other words, "we are (allegedly) better than the ******* English and that's all that matters". You clearly aren't concerned that quality of care is declining. FFS, you don't even care that your Party of choice is diverting a couple of ?Billion of grant AWAY from NHSS - every year. The Tories want the NHS privatised, like every other public service, they are vultures, they need their share holding mates to make a quick buck. "Broken leg, that will be ?50 to fix it please before we can proceed... what you cannot afford health care insurance, move along, next please, ah cancer.. , you will need a second mortgage.. best see your bank". Dont let the Tory spin doctors tell ya different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 Lots of question, which I will try and answer, though I'll be honest I don't think you read my post correctly and jumped to a lot of stuff I never said On the population thing. I would have thought it was fairly obvious but it's generally down to the increased pooling a resources. Give you greater flexibility in time of downturn but you can have a larger pool of resources to deal with contingencies. Whilst borrowing and the likes becomes much easier with larger asset base. That the economical bit. The rest is down to effective of governance so 5 or 500M is easily manageable is get governance right. The larger countries in Europe tend to be the strongest not always, but in main. They handle it better due to the resisilence from larger economies. Small successful economies tend to be niche economies. Who said Scotland wouldn't be able to suffer shocks? That's you making things up. However, again if you look at how Europe coped with the financial collapse the uK came out of it comparitively well to the rest of Europe. Particularly things like youth unemployment. It's the extent of the impact which is the issue. How have other nations handled downturns? Very differently. The impact is still be felt massively in many countries for an event which happened close to 10 years ago. Hence the point it's the extent of impact. Greece and a number of other countries did kind of collapse (maybe should have) even with the support of the Germans. Albeit it's a complex issue. To be honest the collapse thing is hyperbole from you all I have said is economic downturn. How do you get to collapse from that? The bigger the better. They're lots of saying about size and benefits. They don't really mean very much though do they? Doom and gloom stuff is again hyperbole from you. I think people need to be realistic about what will happen. Will the earth suddenly stop turning no. However, are we likely to see some form of downturn yes. That comes with consequences. Particularly, when people's plans to manage any transition seems to be non existent. This is one of the thing that frustrates me a little bit with these debates is people deal in extremes to try and diminish points they don't like. That's more an observation than directed at you. This sort of blows a massive huge hole in your argument that bigger is better does it not? http://www.worldatlas.com/articles/the-richest-countries-in-the-world.html Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderstruck Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 The Tories want the NHS privatised, like every other public service, they are vultures, they need their share holding mates to make a quick buck. "Broken leg, that will be ?50 to fix it please before we can proceed... what you cannot afford health care insurance, move along, next please, ah cancer.. , you will need a second mortgage.. best see your bank". Dont let the Tory spin doctors tell ya different. Is Audit Scotland an arm of the Tory Party? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 (edited) Any wonder why the U.K. doesn't want Scotland to leave when you see this list? No sign of the UK at all [emoji23] Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro Edited February 24, 2017 by Space Mackerel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaymarketJambo Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 (edited) Don't worry Jeremy Corbyn is coming up to Perth this Sunday on a day-saver return to give the SNP what-for at the Scottish Labour Party conference. Edited February 24, 2017 by HaymarketJambo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Murray Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 Don't worry Jeremy Corbyn is coming up to Perth this Sunday on a day-saver return to give the SNP what-for at the Scottish Labour Party conference. Has he pre-booked a seat on the train this time though? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maroonlegions Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 Is Audit Scotland an arm of the Tory Party? Dont give a feck mate, does not debunk the argument that the UK Tories want the NHS privatised. Jeremy fecking Hunt is all you need to look at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maroonlegions Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 Dont doubt a single word of that. Is the NHS in England shite because of the SNP though? The thing is, its been shite for over 50 years regardless of what colour is in power on either side of the border unyet, it marches on. Starve it if funds Watch it deteriorate Announce its no longer fit for purpose & issue warnings on performance Issue non achievable performance targets Offer zero new ivestments other than token gestures Watch it fail Open a debate on privatisation Pass a bill Privatise Thats whats coming. Same as: The Post office, Royal Mail, British Steel, British Telecom, British Aerospace, British Leyland, Gas, Electric, Water, shipbuilding, BP, Jaguar, Cable & Wireless, British Airways, BAA, Coal, British Ports, Britoil, National Freight & council housing stock etc. The way to keep the poor poor is to tax them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deesidejambo Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 The way to keep the poor poor is to tax them. How's your UFO spotting going? And your crop circle alien research. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboX2 Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 Don't worry Jeremy Corbyn is coming up to Perth this Sunday on a day-saver return to give the SNP what-for at the Scottish Labour Party conference. Cannot wait... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboX2 Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 The Tories want the NHS privatised, like every other public service, they are vultures, they need their share holding mates to make a quick buck. "Broken leg, that will be ?50 to fix it please before we can proceed... what you cannot afford health care insurance, move along, next please, ah cancer.. , you will need a second mortgage.. best see your bank". Dont let the Tory spin doctors tell ya different. In Europe most of the bigger nations don't have an NHS system. A tax funded system but state insurance and in part funding is better allocated on things like equipment, medication and so on. Hence the higher investment and better outcomes in say France or Holland. Would people in the UK, in return for a better system, take a state insurance system? A system where you make contributions each month to a policy regulated by the state and where your employer is also liable for a share of payment. I've often thought with the budget squeeze and contracting tax take and ageing population this would increasingly be seen as a solution. You would need a Beveridge style cross-party approach to it though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 Dont give a feck mate, does not debunk the argument that the UK Tories want the NHS privatised. Jeremy fecking Hunt is all you need to look at. I read a wee bit from John Major the other day saying he thought it was funny that Gove and Johnson campaigned about a brexit for extra NHS funds when Major said they are both fully committed to a privatised NHS. That's what they want, be under no illusions the Tories want rid of it to sell it off to their pals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trapper John McIntyre Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 The man who tipped: Scottish Independence EU Remain President Hillary Clinton Now has a racing tipster column! 0 replies0 retweets0 likes Reply Retweet Like Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 Sadiq Khan putting some final nails in Scottish labour? Shame Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coconut doug Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 Read any of Aussieh's posts? Fair point well made on the bold part. Then you open an argument regarding is it worth a potential lost generation through those difficult times. But that's a seperate point. I don't think Aussie is an ethnic nationalist. I think he is being ironic. You said "some" Yes supporters so presumably there are more than one. If not it seems as if you are forming your view of indy on one person's ironic comments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 In Europe most of the bigger nations don't have an NHS system. A tax funded system but state insurance and in part funding is better allocated on things like equipment, medication and so on. Hence the higher investment and better outcomes in say France or Holland. Would people in the UK, in return for a better system, take a state insurance system? A system where you make contributions each month to a policy regulated by the state and where your employer is also liable for a share of payment. I've often thought with the budget squeeze and contracting tax take and ageing population this would increasingly be seen as a solution. You would need a Beveridge style cross-party approach to it though. So, like some sort of National Insurance scheme? Sounds vaguely familiar.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanishTam10 Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 I've never stated that independence would be an immediate panacea to our economic situation. I think that in time it could be. The UK is facing uncertain times due to Brexit, the full ramifications of which we know not. Hopefully it will all work out for the best, but again, like independence, there will be a period of time where the economy will suffer (IMO). Independence isn't about what's in it for me now. It's about what our society will be in 10, 20, 30 years time. As I've mentioned before on other threads, and possibly on this one, I'd be more than happy to remain in the UK if the political system was democratised and the nation federalised. I doubt any of those things will happen soon, which leads me to conclude that Independence is the last resort, but the most attainable. And yes, perhaps my biases do cloud my judgement! Yet when I see and hear the likes of May, Johnson, Fox, Davies, Hunt etc I'm not exactly swayed by their arguments. The UK is a democracy, it is a union that has stopped nationalism and difference from being the thing that is important. Your life as you know it is based on our UK principles. Like democracy, universal education, the NHS, freedom of speech and freedom of religious belief, amongst others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphonseCapone Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 The UK is a democracy, it is a union that has stopped nationalism and difference from being the thing that is important. Your life as you know it is based on our UK principles. Like democracy, universal education, the NHS, freedom of speech and freedom of religious belief, amongst others. Nationalism was the key to brexit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanishTam10 Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 Nationalism was the key to brexit. And are you pursuing Nationalism as a solution? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderstruck Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 In Europe most of the bigger nations don't have an NHS system. A tax funded system but state insurance and in part funding is better allocated on things like equipment, medication and so on. Hence the higher investment and better outcomes in say France or Holland. Would people in the UK, in return for a better system, take a state insurance system? A system where you make contributions each month to a policy regulated by the state and where your employer is also liable for a share of payment. I've often thought with the budget squeeze and contracting tax take and ageing population this would increasingly be seen as a solution. You would need a Beveridge style cross-party approach to it though. We have had many reviews of NHS that have suggested change but they all come up against a Sacred Cow. Change is extraordinarily difficult when the vast majority of the population still think it was the World's first and still the best national healthcare system. They are wrong on both counts - Germany has a system that can be traced back to the late 19th Century and NHS will be lucky to find itself in the Top 10. The key to making change is an acceptance that what we have doesn't work and we absolutely must make changes if we are to have a Health Service that meets our needs. Finding a Party in power that will risk all to make change is almost impossible. There are good examples of more effective Health Services around the World and we need to learn from them. We can start by accepting that a Public/Private mix is not heresy as it does work (the key being robust regulation). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trapper John McIntyre Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 Nationalism was the key to brexit. Nationalism is the key to Indy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphonseCapone Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 And are you pursuing Nationalism as a solution? I'm not pursuing anything. Simply highlighting how the UK is as nationalistic as the SNP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphonseCapone Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 Nationalism is the key to Indy. Cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanishTam10 Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 I'm not pursuing anything. Simply highlighting how the UK is as nationalistic as the SNP. I am quite happy to settle in a place that isn't nationalistic. I genuinely don't understand what you wrote there. I think you mean "snp is nationalist, so what, england is too..." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphonseCapone Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 I am quite happy to settle in a place that isn't nationalistic. I genuinely don't understand what you wrote there. I think you mean "snp is nationalist, so what, england is too..." I genuinely can't help you understand any better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanishTam10 Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 I genuinely can't help you understand any better. I don't think anyone could make me understand that any better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvoys Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 A pub I know is letting o of it manager cos of these business rate rises. A small art business having all its profits taken. Can anyone justify this theft from the wealth generators and continued middle class squeeze or is it just another thing we should congratulate the tireless efforts of our great leaders on in the one party state? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trapper John McIntyre Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 Sadiq Khan putting some final nails in Scottish labour? Shame Bateman is a leading light of the Nat media. His work is promoted by senior SNP figures. Prediction: Both will still be true after this. 0 replies0 retweets0 likes Reply Retweet Like Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboX2 Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 So, like some sort of National Insurance scheme? Sounds vaguely familiar.... Yes. But no. NI has never really been hypothecated to these things for 50 years. The difference is one would be rewuired to seek a policy from state regulated providers. Rather than just a state run health system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphonseCapone Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 I don't think anyone could make me understand that any better. You said the UK had stopped nationalism, even though it was used as a strong component of the brexit campaign. Therefore the UK's exit from the EU was based on nationalism for a lot of people. The complete opposite of your statement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboX2 Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 I'm not pursuing anything. Simply highlighting how the UK is as nationalistic as the SNP. I would argue it's not the UK as such but certain wings of the Tory party, the right wing press and UKIP which are being nationalistic. This stuff always crops up when wages and living cinditions stagnate it becomes a blame game which these people latch onto and exacerbate for their own goals and aims. Independence can (and I stress can in the sense of in some peoples views rather than a definitive is) be viewed as very similar to the Brexit debate and it's want to repatriate "democracy" closer to the people. Or to stop people "we didn't elect" making big decisions on our behalf. Just because a Commissioner is appointed by the Dutch government for (say) agriculture and fishing doesn't make his legitimacy in decision making any less valid or right than if he were British. Much like an MP for Dorset making winning a seat and taking a vote which impacts Scotland any less democratic as those elected in Coatbridge. The process generating the outcomes of their decisions legitimises it. That negates both the control and democratic deficit arguments of Nationalism and Brexit (imo). If you want independence it should be because: 1. You believe Scotland should be sovereign. 2. That it's political culture or the needs of Scots differ greatly from the UK, and 3. Because it offers a better way forward. All this "End London Rule" stuff and the political "no Tories in Scotland" to me is vacuous because the system doesn't work like that. Equally, the rhetoric is harmful to the future of an independent Scotland because the vitriol of it and the nature in which nationalism elevates the notion of say British interests or Scottish interests strains and diminishes the common ground. Like May is finding out on Brexit with a jilted and hardened EU, I reckon it only natural that the a UK/Scottish relationship would be as strained and difficult. Nationalism helps nobody in the long term. It homogenises the people of the places it exists in and it elevates the whole (the one nation) over the varied a different needs and concerns of various groups within the nation. An us v them mentality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 I would argue it's not the UK as such but certain wings of the Tory party, the right wing press and UKIP which are being nationalistic. This stuff always crops up when wages and living cinditions stagnate it becomes a blame game which these people latch onto and exacerbate for their own goals and aims. Independence can (and I stress can in the sense of in some peoples views rather than a definitive is) be viewed as very similar to the Brexit debate and it's want to repatriate "democracy" closer to the people. Or to stop people "we didn't elect" making big decisions on our behalf. Just because a Commissioner is appointed by the Dutch government for (say) agriculture and fishing doesn't make his legitimacy in decision making any less valid or right than if he were British. Much like an MP for Dorset making winning a seat and taking a vote which impacts Scotland any less democratic as those elected in Coatbridge. The process generating the outcomes of their decisions legitimises it. That negates both the control and democratic deficit arguments of Nationalism and Brexit (imo). If you want independence it should be because: 1. You believe Scotland should be sovereign. 2. That it's political culture or the needs of Scots differ greatly from the UK, and 3. Because it offers a better way forward. All this "End London Rule" stuff and the political "no Tories in Scotland" to me is vacuous because the system doesn't work like that. Equally, the rhetoric is harmful to the future of an independent Scotland because the vitriol of it and the nature in which nationalism elevates the notion of say British interests or Scottish interests strains and diminishes the common ground. Like May is finding out on Brexit with a jilted and hardened EU, I reckon it only natural that the a UK/Scottish relationship would be as strained and difficult. Nationalism helps nobody in the long term. It homogenises the people of the places it exists in and it elevates the whole (the one nation) over the varied a different needs and concerns of various groups within the nation. An us v them mentality. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboX2 Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro If you read that post again you'll see I have no truck with either the new populist British nationalism or Scottish nationalism. Frankly I do not believe you need to be a nationalist to vote yes or a unionist to vote no. See the Greens. I wouldn't say they were a nationalist party. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 If you read that post again you'll see I have no truck with either the new populist British nationalism or Scottish nationalism. Frankly I do not believe you need to be a nationalist to vote yes or a unionist to vote no. See the Greens. I wouldn't say they were a nationalist party. You should maybe tell the Mayor of London that? Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboX2 Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 You should maybe tell the Mayor of London that? Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro Think he said something very similar. Nationalism by its nature is divisive. Be it Brexit or independence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 Think he said something very similar. Nationalism by its nature is divisive. Be it Brexit or independence. I take it you've not been following the news this weekend. He gave notice of his speech to the Daily Record then changed it when he actually gave it at the conference. Anyway, I remember listening to Tom Morton on the radio for the BBC, a Labour man and now converted to the SNP and independence. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 Think he said something very similar. Nationalism by its nature is divisive. Be it Brexit or independence. http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/sadiq-khan-scottish-labour-conference-independence-not-racist-a7600106.html Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 If you want independence it should be because: 1. You believe Scotland should be sovereign. 2. That it's political culture or the needs of Scots differ greatly from the UK, and 3. Because it offers a better way forward. If you believe 1, then surely 2 & 3 are natural extensions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 (edited) Think he said something very similar. Nationalism by its nature is divisive. Be it Brexit or independence. Unless its former colonies going for it? Edited February 26, 2017 by Boris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 Unless its former colonies going for it? Astounding level of hypocrisy Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arnold Rothstein Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 Astounding level of hypocrisy Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro Is it really? Independence for Scotland is hardly akin to that of Pakistan or India. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 Is it really? Independence for Scotland is hardly akin to that of Pakistan or India. I'll reply to this but hopefully others will just laugh at your astounding stupidity demonstrated with this post. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arnold Rothstein Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 I'll reply to this but hopefully others will just laugh at your astounding stupidity demonstrated with this post. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro To be honest mate, the majority of us have been doing that with 99% of your posts so i'm in decent company. I await your reply with baited breath. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Australis Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 (edited) To be honest mate, the majority of us have been doing that with 99% of your posts so i'm in decent company. I await your reply with baited breath. They are so aggressive and full of hate, nationalism is horrible. Edited February 26, 2017 by Australis...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 They are so aggressive and full of hate, nationalism is horrible. [emoji23][emoji23] More utter Yoon pish. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arnold Rothstein Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 [emoji23][emoji23] More utter Yoon pish. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro What's google come up with champ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 What's google come up with champ? Are you still struggling with the dictionary definition of hypocrisy? Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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