Thunderstruck Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 You do realise that the UK imports 60% of its fuel? How this can be turned into an independent Scotlands problem alone doesnt make sense. Comparatively Svotland would be more self sufficient if independent. Energy supply will become a problem for all advanced nations. I was not talking of the source of fuel but how that fuel is converted to the energy we use. Our world might get by without gas for a couple of hours, a day maybe, but power cuts are an entirely different matter. You only have to think of the flak that the Hydro got for delays in restoring power after storms. As I said, the Scottish plan is for harnessing wind power to the virtual exclusion of other forms of generation. Intermittency of wind makes this an incredibly foolish adventure without coal, gas or nuclear on standby ready to step in at, quite literally, a moments notice. Right now (19:25) wind is producing 5.86% of our energy requirement. How much more of our countryside needs to be despoiled by aerogenerators to get that up to a reasonable percentage (the answer is in David MacKay's book). England has Nuclear and will build more, it has some coal and a number of gas stations. Those added to onshore and offshore windfarms give a better balance to energy supply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 Sutton Trust actually. Telegraph reporting their report. But belittle and attack the source. Deflect, ignore and plough on. I will with Tory supporting broadsheets ta very much. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 That green energy is heavily subsidised by rUK energy users through their bills. Do you think that would continue after independence? Where else will the money supporting green energy come from? It's a major headache for independence to overcome. And Jake is right. Nuclear is part of the solution. Scotland will probably just ask the Chinese to chip in, like they have done down Hinckley Point. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/09/cleverest-scottish-pupils-year-behind-science-compared-snp-taking/ If you want proof it isn't all roses in Scotland then education is absolutely front and centre. Utterly dropped the ball on this. The results were the same in wales and england. The gap between rich and poor was also the same. The pisa results have been condemned as inaccurate. Just in case you think everything rosie in the uk. Look on the brightside though we are brexiting and the uk is looking rosier for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trapper John McIntyre Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 Scotland will probably just ask the Chinese to chip in, like they have done down Hinckley Point. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro That last deal Nippy made with the Chinese went well, didn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 To genuinely leave the Eu or to create the situation we have now? Probably to Machiavellian.... Good point . Machiavellian away buddy . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 That last deal Nippy made with the Chinese went well, didn't it? Is that the talks that the Chinese pulled out of as the Yoonys went apeshit about their company history and scuppered it? That deal? Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff the Mince Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 Let's all be honest, the Tories are in power for the next term, the term after that and more than likely the term following. I was unlucky enough to live through the Thatcher years, I had my milk snatched at school and look what happened to the Independence movement during these years. We ended up with 70 odd percent in favour of devolution. Scotland will be independent fairly soon, my guess is within 10 years at the very very most. Losers, naw. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro If we can be honest here most people I know or speak to, who voted for Independance Would have to give serious thought to it if there was another vote . It's as if the SNP have morphed into what Labour were in Scotland Always guaranteed the vote without actually delivering anything . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 If we can be honest here most people I know or speak to, who voted for Independance Would have to give serious thought to it if there was another vote . It's as if the SNP have morphed into what Labour were in Scotland Always guaranteed the vote without actually delivering anything . That's funny, I know of one person who actually posts on here has turned 50/50, but I know plenty others that have changed to a Yes now. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboX2 Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 Is that the talks that the Chinese pulled out of as the Yoonys went apeshit about their company history and scuppered it? That deal? Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro You mean the deal the government kept secret and away from scrutiny by Holyrood? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malinga the Swinga Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 Cracking standard of debate from both sides here chaps Has anybody actually put a point across that has changed someone's mind on the other side of the argument? Of course not. Those against the SNP are correct in their views and have no need to change. Those pro SNP are too stupid to realise they are wrong and won't change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 You mean the deal the government kept secret and away from scrutiny by Holyrood? So you agree that the deal was scuppered by the Yoonys blowing off in the media. That's all I wanted confirmed. Hopefully Thrapper reads this. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notts1874 Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 Of course not. Those against the SNP are correct in their views and have no need to change. Those pro SNP are too stupid to realise they are wrong and won't change. Point proven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 I was not talking of the source of fuel but how that fuel is converted to the energy we use. Our world might get by without gas for a couple of hours, a day maybe, but power cuts are an entirely different matter. You only have to think of the flak that the Hydro got for delays in restoring power after storms. As I said, the Scottish plan is for harnessing wind power to the virtual exclusion of other forms of generation. Intermittency of wind makes this an incredibly foolish adventure without coal, gas or nuclear on standby ready to step in at, quite literally, a moments notice. Right now (19:25) wind is producing 5.86% of our energy requirement. How much more of our countryside needs to be despoiled by aerogenerators to get that up to a reasonable percentage (the answer is in David MacKay's book). England has Nuclear and will build more, it has some coal and a number of gas stations. Those added to onshore and offshore windfarms give a better balance to energy supply. Im not disagreeing but Scotland imports less than England and is actually a net exporter of energy. It cannot be used as a pro unionist argument. Id argue that its indeed an argument for independence. To control our energy needs . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 Of course not. Those against the SNP are correct in their views and have no need to change. Those pro SNP are too stupid to realise they are wrong and won't change. Are we too wee and too poor too? Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trapper John McIntyre Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 You mean the deal the government kept secret and away from scrutiny by Holyrood? Along with EU advice and the results of the 'listening exercise'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablo Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 Will it? That's not a nailed on cert regards the Euro etc. It may be highly likely, perhaps that would become apparent in the campaign. As an aside, I'd want an Indy Scotland to hold a referendum on EU membership after indy. That's why I said rightly or wrongly. Remain will shape the issue as a choice between the UK and the EU, and if they're successful in doing so, there will only be one outcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderstruck Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 You mean the deal the government kept secret and away from scrutiny by Holyrood? To be fair, they are quite good at squirrelling away less-than-welcome information -including that on the cost of fighting FOI requests on documents that didn't exist. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/10367759/Alex-Salmond-spent-20000-keeping-secret-non-existent-EU-legal-advice.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablo Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 So you agree that the deal was scuppered by the Yoonys blowing off in the media. That's all I wanted confirmed. Hopefully Thrapper reads this. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro Reportedly dubbed in China " The Scottish Shambles ". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 (edited) Looky looky, see how big Scotland actually is. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro Edited February 9, 2017 by Space Mackerel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderstruck Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 Im not disagreeing but Scotland imports less than England and is actually a net exporter of energy. It cannot be used as a pro unionist argument. Id argue that its indeed an argument for independence. To control our energy needs . It is a pro-union argument because both parties benefit from the arrangement through a unified national grid. Would that operate in the same way and at same cost in a post Independence state of affairs? We can only guess and guesswork is not a hugely satisfactory way to plan for the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 It is a pro-union argument because both parties benefit from the arrangement through a unified national grid. Would that operate in the same way and at same cost in a post Independence state of affairs? We can only guess and guesswork is not a hugely satisfactory way to plan for the future. Too stupid to implement a National Grid now? The guy who invented electricity was Scottish Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deesidejambo Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 Or at any other time, anywhere in the last two and a half years on this topic? The country is utterly divided and I think broken beyond repair tbh. This. We will never move on now. Until Nicola buggers off Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 This. We will never move on now. Until Nicola buggers off Or England Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphonseCapone Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 Game (not) on. Another false dawn. http://uk.businessinsider.com/scottish-independence-bmg-poll-sampling-error-behind-bmg-poll-putting-support-on-49-2017-2 Did your carer not read the whole article to you? He said it would be silly to take one poll too seriously, pretty straightforward statement. But is simply evidence that things remain as close as they have ever been. At the very end he says it remains a reminder to the UK Government that if there was another referendum, they could lose it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 Did your carer not read the whole article to you? He said it would be silly to take one poll too seriously, pretty straightforward statement. But is simply evidence that things remain as close as they have ever been. At the very end he says it remains a reminder to the UK Government that if there was another referendum, they could lose it. The man just loathes scotland so much he jizzes himself at any thought of it being crushed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 The man just loathes scotland so much he jizzes himself at any thought of it being crushed. I think you're being unjust, I like Thrapper, it's my winter sport giving him riddy after riddy on here, much of it self inflicted by his own self. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trapper John McIntyre Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 The man just loathes scotland so much he jizzes himself at any thought of it being crushed. Ooooh so angry. 27 replies66 retweets88 likes Reply 27 Retweet 66 Like 88 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trapper John McIntyre Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 Did your carer not read the whole article to you? He said it would be silly to take one poll too seriously, pretty straightforward statement. But is simply evidence that things remain as close as they have ever been. At the very end he says it remains a reminder to the UK Government that if there was another referendum, they could lose it. He's right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 Ooooh so angry. 27 replies66 retweets88 likes Reply 27 Retweet 66 Like 88 You dont get it trapper. People are tired of x factor politics. If you get down to the truth of the economic cultural structural arguments the independence case is rock solid. Scottish influence far outwwighs its size. Historically the scottish conscience has influenced much of the modern world good and bad. If your argument is sound lets hear it but pictures if bloated politicians means nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboX2 Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 So you agree that the deal was scuppered by the Yoonys blowing off in the media. That's all I wanted confirmed. Hopefully Thrapper reads this. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro No I think it was a cluster****. I think to enter into such a big deal on the quiet without scrutiny from Holyrood was an epic mistake by the Government. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 It is a pro-union argument because both parties benefit from the arrangement through a unified national grid. Would that operate in the same way and at same cost in a post Independence state of affairs? We can only guess and guesswork is not a hugely satisfactory way to plan for the future. Really couldnt be further off the mark. Wont bother as id prefer if you realised the futility of your argument. As is the futility of any argument in opposition. Energy consumption unless addressed by nuclear power is already going to face years of power rationing. Thats if we start tomorrow. But Scotland is better placed if independent to address this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trapper John McIntyre Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 You dont get it trapper. People are tired of x factor politics. If you get down to the truth of the economic cultural structural arguments the independence case is rock solid. Scottish influence far outwwighs its size. Historically the scottish conscience has influenced much of the modern world good and bad. If your argument is sound lets hear it but pictures if bloated politicians means nothing. They vote for Z factor politicians like Trump, Salmond and Sturgeon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboX2 Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 (edited) This. We will never move on now. Until Nicola buggers offI honestly think either way the SNP are on a hiding to nothing. With power they are not radical and they're presiding over stagnation blinded by one idea. Reality and their lack of political alternative will sink them come Yes or No. What replaces them is up for grabs imo. And I think Scotland before it goes back to Labour will go blue. The SNP resemble Labour in Scotland of around 14 years ago. Edited February 9, 2017 by JamboX2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Brightside Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 (edited) Im not disagreeing but Scotland imports less than England and is actually a net exporter of energy. It cannot be used as a pro unionist argument. Id argue that its indeed an argument for independence. To control our energy needs . The latest data on energy use / generation is up to the end of 2015. Would expect this to change when you take into account Longannet closing in 2016 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-33970594 Add in the scheduled closing of Hunterston http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-20590915 and we will soon be net importers. The short to medium term choice will be fracking or import electricity. The failure of the SNP to commission a power station in the last 5-10 years is largely to blame for this situation. Edited February 9, 2017 by Mr Brightside Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 They vote for Z factor politicians like Trump, Salmond and Sturgeon. Not for me. I vote on policy. I voted brexit I voted yes. I vote green other than that as thats the most pressing problem but will never be addressed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 The latest data on energy use / generation is up to the end of 2015. Would expect this to change when you take into account Longannet closing in 2016 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-33970594 Add in the scheduled closing of Hunterston http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-20590915 and we will soon be net importers. The short to medium term choice will be fracking or import electricity. The failure of the SNP to commission a power station in the last 5-10 years is largely to blame for this situation. Spot on. There is though i think a repeal of powers regarding energy supply via the devolved govt? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol1874 Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 You dont get it trapper. People are tired of x factor politics. If you get down to the truth of the economic cultural structural arguments the independence case is rock solid. Scottish influence far outwwighs its size. Historically the scottish conscience has influenced much of the modern world good and bad. If your argument is sound lets hear it but pictures if bloated politicians means nothing. Jake, The SNP is full of people for whom Scottish independence is a lifetime's work. So much so that I believe that were it to be achieved, some might even step away from politics. That being so, can you tell me please why it is that they find it so difficult, impossible in fact so far, to credibly articulate the rock solid economic case they and you believe exists? I'd have thought, with all that passion and an adult lifetime of campaigning on a single issue, that a rock solid economic case would be easy to deliver to the electorate in a way which not only the electorate understands, but which is also irrefutable. I'd also be interested to know how you think the economic case stacks up now, compared to 2014. As a general comment, I read 'too wee, too poor, too stupid' and 'hate your own country' on this thread and across social media. It helps no-one and actually is really quite a pathetic road to go down. Whatever side of this debate you find yourself on, the very least we should be able to agree on is that everyone is arguing for the course of action they believe is best for Scotland and her people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 No I think it was a cluster****. I think to enter into such a big deal on the quiet without scrutiny from Holyrood was an epic mistake by the Government. So the Scottish Government have to broadcast every word to the whole wide world about economic deals done through nation states but the UK doesn't. Some topsy turvy world you live in. Isn't it about time you started attacking Maggie May then? Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 They vote for Z factor politicians like Trump, Salmond and Sturgeon. Spit it out Thrapper, what's your vision? Who's your darling of the leaders? Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderstruck Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 Really couldnt be further off the mark. Wont bother as id prefer if you realised the futility of your argument. As is the futility of any argument in opposition. Energy consumption unless addressed by nuclear power is already going to face years of power rationing. Thats if we start tomorrow. But Scotland is better placed if independent to address this. You seem to have jumped to conclusions not supported by earlier posts. I am NOT saying that Scotland cannot be more than self- sufficient. What I did say is that it has been, it possibly still is but on the current trajectory it will not continue to be so as there is NO provision for baseload to replace Longannet plus the remaining and ageing nuclear stations. Instead, it seems that the plan is to increase reliance on the UK Grid and that is fine as long as the current form of access to the grid continues and the nuclear and gas plants down south can cope - it is already touch and go. The greatest threat to our energy security is the SNP as they seem intent on developing wind and a little tidal (both intermittent), some Hydro (limited and seasonal) to the exclusion of all other sources. This depends on the grid providing the 40 or 50% of our baseload requirement that doesn't flow from Hunterston, Torness or Peterhead. You are quite right about nuclear power and I am a firm proponent of its use but you are well wide of the mark if you think the SNP now or in an independent Scotland will sanction any programme to replace Torness and Hunterston. Energy is reserved to Westminster but the SNP have far too much influence (through control of Planning) and are driven by idiotic dogma - their "Nuclear Free Scotland" was founded on an anti-WMD stance but they have happily conflated bombs with civil nuclear power. A quarter of Scotland's electricity is produced at Torness but it will close in 13 years with greater chances of outages in the interim. The deadline to start planning for replacement to ensure continuity of service has passed. Westinghouse have developed the small modular reactors that are much cheaper than that proposed for construction in England - an option that could be explored. Alternatively, Scotland could take a lead and explore the use of Thorium Reactors and have an engineering sector that could profit from that. Will we? I can't see it even although Thorium is a more abundant resource, has a better fuel cycle and is far harder to weaponise. Peterhead CCGT is the only other major active power plant and if CCGT was considered an option for baseload, we should have seen plans for new plants. As far as I know, the only plant planned was at Cockenzie although that was dropped in 2011. CCGT Is much cleaner than coal but is still a fossil fuel producing CO2. The leitmotif in these threads the incompetence of the SNP and the ten (thus far) wasted years. Energy is just one more example but one that will negatively impact on all of us sooner than we expect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 Jake, The SNP is full of people for whom Scottish independence is a lifetime's work. So much so that I believe that were it to be achieved, some might even step away from politics. That being so, can you tell me please why it is that they find it so difficult, impossible in fact so far, to credibly articulate the rock solid economic case they and you believe exists? I'd have thought, with all that passion and an adult lifetime of campaigning on a single issue, that a rock solid economic case would be easy to deliver to the electorate in a way which not only the electorate understands, but which is also irrefutable. I'd also be interested to know how you think the economic case stacks up now, compared to 2014. As a general comment, I read 'too wee, too poor, too stupid' and 'hate your own country' on this thread and across social media. It helps no-one and actually is really quite a pathetic road to go down. Whatever side of this debate you find yourself on, the very least we should be able to agree on is that everyone is arguing for the course of action they believe is best for Scotland and her people. 100% agree with you on the description of debate. Really wish the focus was on best policy. Ive called out space and aussie. They have ripped me as a racist thicko with no understanding of anything ive had to say. Unless it agrees witj there dogma. I adhere to none of the dogma. Imo if we are playing the game of capitalism . Then the only way is to play. Scotland is in a fantastic position to take advantage. I contradict myself bevause i believe that capitalism is in its last throw. But i also believe that Scotland and its people are an influence . That influence is best achieved through independence and a foresight in how to make prosperity with social justice a reality. Free thinking through scottish philosophy created the greatest constitution of rights known in politics historically. Look no further than the US A the most prolific abuser btw but i digress. Why cant we be liberal economical with a forward thinking approach. It really is possible to make our mark as a national conscience . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 You seem to have jumped to conclusions not supported by earlier posts. I am NOT saying that Scotland cannot be more than self- sufficient. What I did say is that it has been, it possibly still is but on the current trajectory it will not continue to be so as there is NO provision for baseload to replace Longannet plus the remaining and ageing nuclear stations. Instead, it seems that the plan is to increase reliance on the UK Grid and that is fine as long as the current form of access to the grid continues and the nuclear and gas plants down south can cope - it is already touch and go. The greatest threat to our energy security is the SNP as they seem intent on developing wind and a little tidal (both intermittent), some Hydro (limited and seasonal) to the exclusion of all other sources. This depends on the grid providing the 40 or 50% of our baseload requirement that doesn't flow from Hunterston, Torness or Peterhead. You are quite right about nuclear power and I am a firm proponent of its use but you are well wide of the mark if you think the SNP now or in an independent Scotland will sanction any programme to replace Torness and Hunterston. Energy is reserved to Westminster but the SNP have far too much influence (through control of Planning) and are driven by idiotic dogma - their "Nuclear Free Scotland" was founded on an anti-WMD stance but they have happily conflated bombs with civil nuclear power. A quarter of Scotland's electricity is produced at Torness but it will close in 13 years with greater chances of outages in the interim. The deadline to start planning for replacement to ensure continuity of service has passed. Westinghouse have developed the small modular reactors that are much cheaper than that proposed for construction in England - an option that could be explored. Alternatively, Scotland could take a lead and explore the use of Thorium Reactors and have an engineering sector that could profit from that. Will we? I can't see it even although Thorium is a more abundant resource, has a better fuel cycle and is far harder to weaponise. Peterhead CCGT is the only other major active power plant and if CCGT was considered an option for baseload, we should have seen plans for new plants. As far as I know, the only plant planned was at Cockenzie although that was dropped in 2011. CCGT Is much cleaner than coal but is still a fossil fuel producing CO2. The leitmotif in these threads the incompetence of the SNP and the ten (thus far) wasted years. Energy is just one more example but one that will negatively impact on all of us sooner than we expect. Good post . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Brightside Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 Spot on. There is though i think a repeal of powers regarding energy supply via the devolved govt? I think energy is fully devolved but would need to double check. Fergus Ewing was sleep walking towards a crisis bu not committing to a development. Personally I would go for a new nuclear plant to guarantee base load. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trapper John McIntyre Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 Spit it out Thrapper, what's your vision? Who's your darling of the leaders? Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboX2 Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 So the Scottish Government have to broadcast every word to the whole wide world about economic deals done through nation states but the UK doesn't. Where did I say the UK doesn't? Where did I say "every word"? The deal fell apart because the government failed to disclose their plans to parliament. A deal where Scottish public services were to be subject to Chinese investment and 0 prior knowledge was mad. Parliament didn't act with glory, but the idea you can do these things without scrutiny is wrong. Utterly wrong. Some topsy turvy world you live in. Isn't it about time you started attacking Maggie May then? Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro I think the whole Brexit thing has been woefully dealt with by May. By Davis. By the whole UK government. By the devolved leaders. By Sturgeon. By Corbyn. By Parliament. By the British people. It's all a mess. But the world isn't as black and white as you seem to be suggesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Australis Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 Oh dear European Commission: Independent Scotland would have to join queue for EU membership Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 Oh dear European Commission: Independent Scotland would have to join queue for EU membership But...may also be fast tracked. ?Now, it might be easier for an independent Scotland to meet those criteria. The fact that all your legislation has to be in alignment with existing European rules would presumably not be too difficult for Scotland, compared with, say, Montenegro. And that might enable them to move faster than others.? from https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/10/independent-scotland-would-have-to-apply-for-eu-membership So all a bit smoke and mirrors. Actually, I could see an Indy Scotland doing a Norway and join EFTA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaymarketJambo Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 It's more embarrassment than hate. I'm embarrassed that they claim to represent Scotland A lot of people vote SNP and that's who they want to represent them. You have chance to vote every few year's to kick them out use it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Murray Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 But...may also be fast tracked. ?Now, it might be easier for an independent Scotland to meet those criteria. The fact that all your legislation has to be in alignment with existing European rules would presumably not be too difficult for Scotland, compared with, say, Montenegro. And that might enable them to move faster than others.? from https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/10/independent-scotland-would-have-to-apply-for-eu-membership So all a bit smoke and mirrors. Actually, I could see an Indy Scotland doing a Norway and join EFTA. I'm interested in the last paragraph from that piece from an SNP spokesman, An SNP spokesman said that was a ?remarkably selective account? of Minor?s views. ?We are focused on protecting Scotland from the catastrophic effects of a hard Tory Brexit which would cost 80,000 jobs in Scotland over the next decade This is 80,ooo jobs that 'would' go over the next decade, not 'could' go. Would this kind of argument not also apply to independence, serious question? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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