Ricardo Shillyshally Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 You're telling us? Back it up please with some solid facts please. Like your last windfarm "story" off the coast of Aberdeenshire. My "story"? Pretty sure the SNPcalled it in and the course went ahead. Is this incorrect? As for renewable energy cha ges https://www.gov.uk/government/news/changes-to-renewables-subsidies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 More important is the cost, to English Energy Users, of the subsidy to Scottish Windfarm Operators and already rich landowners. ?600m per annum on 2015 figures (the most recently available) just for on-shore turbines. How politically acceptable would it be to English voters to see significant sums go to prop up the economy of a developed, independent country. They might prefer to invest their subsidy in new developments like Rampion. What would it cost Scottish consumers to absorb that cost on top of existing renewable energy surcharge? Thought we were an equal Union? Never mind, Chinese nuclear reactors down South coast on the PPI whilst we continue with wind, wave and the sometimes sun. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 You can try and turn this into a petty argument if that suits you. If we are really saying that going into debt 7 times our gdp to save the banks who continue with the same tactics is sound economic policy then i will glady get pished. Do you really believe the RBS was is a scottish bank. Do you know the actual financial dealings they had internationally and the size of their accounting in the US at the time. Ive never bought into blaming the english its one of the cultural reasons scotland should be independent. As for banks not being risk averse. Can you tell me how many banks needed bailed out. You may want to do some research especially on the US institutions. Too big too fail. Thats not capitalism is it? Bit scoatland widve hud ti bail thum aw oot ken! Not enough facepalms on the planet. People like thrasher keep perpetuating this shite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 My "story"? Pretty sure the SNPcalled it in and the course went ahead. Is this incorrect? As for renewable energy cha ges https://www.gov.uk/government/news/changes-to-renewables-subsidies That's not the link to the recent Government changes. So youre in favour for cutting funding for renewables even if it means cheaper, greener electricity for Scotlands or even the UK's future? But you can see what the bigger picture is and why the Conservatives would do it given the political climate? And you're happy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 Bit scoatland widve hud ti bail thum aw oot ken! Not enough facepalms on the planet. People like thrasher keep perpetuating this shite. It's not just Thrapper, it's all his wee sudjers he texts to go online too at the same time. I set my watch by their appearances on here after he's posted . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricardo Shillyshally Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 That's not the link to the recent Government changes. So youre in favour for cutting funding for renewables even if it means cheaper, greener electricity for Scotlands or even the UK's future? But you can see what the bigger picture is and why the Conservatives would do it given the political climate? And you're happy? I'm not fussed either way about renewable energy funding. You've imagined that. Fake news if you will. All I said was changes to funding were UK wide as opposed to your assertion that cuts were targeted at Scotland. You asked me to back that up with facts, which I did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderstruck Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 Thought we were an equal Union? Never mind, Chinese nuclear reactors down South coast on the PPI whilst we continue with wind, wave and the sometimes sun. Good luck. We are in an equal union but you are agitating for Independence. The point was - what happens if you get your wish? Do you continue with one of the planks of the "White Paper" - that we would continue the Energy "Union". Just one of the "Unions" that were to continue like, ehm, Currency. Would English consumers give Scotland a polite "Feck-off, pay for your own windmills". Could you tell us about Intermittency - the lack predictability of availability of wind, wave, tide, hydro and solar. What, for example, do we use for electricity on cold, windless December days after the wick is turned down in Torness and Hunterston (or is someone secretly building CCGT stations in Scotland)? Go and read the late Prof David MacKay's "Renewable Energy without the hot air" and learn more about this and energy density - it's free on-line. He was the Doyen of the Greens and Tree-huggers but put forward a realistic view of renewables as part of a balanced energy plan with a sustainable baseload. For reference, the average instantaneous wind power output during the last 12 months was circa 3GW with a maximum of 10GW and minimum of 0GW. Wednesday's demand peaked at 50GW at 19:00 and had a minimum of 30GW at 05:00. Max Wind output today was 4GW at 22:00. Aggreko should do quite well out of this policy - buy some shares. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redm Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 Project on hold awaiting, you guessed it, Govt subsidy. Which is currently unbugetted. Umm, no. Trump attempted to block it and challenged the consent right the way up to Supreme Court but they all rejected his arguments. Construction is underway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 We are in an equal union but you are agitating for Independence. The point was - what happens if you get your wish? Do you continue with one of the planks of the "White Paper" - that we would continue the Energy "Union". Just one of the "Unions" that were to continue like, ehm, Currency. Would English consumers give Scotland a polite "Feck-off, pay for your own windmills". Could you tell us about Intermittency - the lack predictability of availability of wind, wave, tide, hydro and solar. What, for example, do we use for electricity on cold, windless December days after the wick is turned down in Torness and Hunterston (or is someone secretly building CCGT stations in Scotland)? Go and read the late Prof David MacKay's "Renewable Energy without the hot air" and learn more about this and energy density - it's free on-line. He was the Doyen of the Greens and Tree-huggers but put forward a realistic view of renewables as part of a balanced energy plan with a sustainable baseload. For reference, the average instantaneous wind power output during the last 12 months was circa 3GW with a maximum of 10GW and minimum of 0GW. Wednesday's demand peaked at 50GW at 19:00 and had a minimum of 30GW at 05:00. Max Wind output today was 4GW at 22:00. Aggreko should do quite well out of this policy - buy some shares. So! after all that Googling and following Tory Twitter accounts, you've come to the conclusion Scotland isn't energy self sufficient, never has been, and, never will be? Project Fear 2 kicking off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 (edited) Umm, no. Trump attempted to block it and challenged the consent right the way up to Supreme Court but they all rejected his arguments. Construction is underway. God Bless the UK Supreme Court. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-35106581 Guess it's a toss up between servants, caddies and bar staff or construction, engineering and future new greener energy practices. Edited February 9, 2017 by Space Mackerel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redm Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 God Bless the UK Supreme Court. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-35106581 Guess it's a toss up between servants, caddies and bar staff or construction, engineering and future new greener energy practices. Add in some welcome diversification for Aberdeen's struggling oil and gas industry, some innovative technology and some EU collaboration to that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussieh Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 (edited) Indeed they are losing support in the NE as they are strong Leave due to the fishing grounds issue.Is that the fishing Wm sold to Europe and are keeping when returned. Anyway I just watched Roots, oh it makes you so proud yo be fae Bruteland , I mean Britland, I mean British, sorry English. My name will never be Toby. Tick tock Edited February 9, 2017 by aussieh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Burgundy Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 Is that the fishing Wm sold to Europe and are keeping when returned. Anyway I just watched Roots, oh it makes you so proud yo be fae Bruteland , I mean Britland, I mean British, sorry English. My name will never be Toby. Tick tock Was it not Scotsmen that started the KKK? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nucky Thompson Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 What an embarrassment, singing the European song in Parliament I didn't even know there was a European song and neither did most of them by the humming noise they were making SNP just GTF please Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Australis Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 'cos they got rid of that incompetent prick Cameron and put a real hard case who'll stand for no shit from the gnatz in Theresa in his place. Yep the poisoned dwarf Sturgeon has met her match, and been ripped a new one. Great to watch. Salmond will have to try and ride to the rescue, he is sitting on the side hanging her out to dry waiting for his chance ....again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankblack Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 What an embarrassment, singing the European song in Parliament I didn't even know there was a European song and neither did most of them by the humming noise they were making SNP just GTF please Saw that on TV this morning. What a bunch of ******s. These self-centred, inbred, arrogant ****wits should not be allowed Indy Ref 2 until after we have left the EU. Precisely zero percent of them represent the Scottish Leave voters at Westminster unlike other parties whose vote was split. They have proved to be anti-democratic so should be told to sod off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robroy1874 Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 What an embarrassment, singing the European song in Parliament I didn't even know there was a European song and neither did most of them by the humming noise they were making SNP just GTF please Total embarrassment to the country Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaymarketJambo Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 What an embarrassment, singing the European song in Parliament I didn't even know there was a European song and neither did most of them by the humming noise they were making SNP just GTF please The SNP are here to stay, my advice to you is get over it. As for the song they were winding up the Tories that was all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankblack Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 The SNP are here to stay, my advice to you is get over it. As for the song they were winding up the Tories that was all. They were a national embarrassment. They are sowing the seeds for getting defeated at next Holyrood election by not representing the Europe Referendum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 They were a national embarrassment. They are sowing the seeds for getting defeated at next Holyrood election by not representing the Europe Referendum. Eh? Are you saying they should have voted for article 50, despite a great majority of the Scots electorate voting to remain? In other words, they shouldn't reflect the thoughts of their electorate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaymarketJambo Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 They were a national embarrassment. They are sowing the seeds for getting defeated at next Holyrood election by not representing the Europe Referendum. I think the national embarrassment are the Labour Party? I voted Brexit but I will still vote SNP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankblack Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 Eh? Are you saying they should have voted for article 50, despite a great majority of the Scots electorate voting to remain? In other words, they shouldn't reflect the thoughts of their electorate? They are trying to argue an irrelevant point about the Scottish vote when we voted as the UK. Why are they ignoring the ~40% in Scotland that voted leave? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzas right boot Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 http://www.businessforscotland.com/new-figures-confirm-that-scotland-would-have-been-8-3-billion-better-off-an-independent-country/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 They are trying to argue an irrelevant point about the Scottish vote when we voted as the UK. Why are they ignoring the ~40% in Scotland that voted leave? Why are we ignoring the 49% in the UK that wanted to remain????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 http://www.businessforscotland.com/new-figures-confirm-that-scotland-would-have-been-8-3-billion-better-off-an-independent-country/ A three year old link? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Murray Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 Why are we ignoring the 49% in the UK that wanted to remain????? You mean the 48.11% who voted to remain? Why do they, or yourself round it up to 49%, but not down to 48%? It's a bit like the indy ref, the 44.7% all of a sudden became 'The 45'. Anyway, I suppose it's all irrelevant. Nobody is ignoring anyone, unfortunately though, somebody had to lose. I think the point being put over is that nobody seems to be representing the leave voters in Scotland, as whenever anyone from the SNP speaks, they claim to be speaking for Scotland, which is fair enough if the vote had been a regional or country by country vote, but it wasn't, it was quite clearly a UK vote. I suppose it could be said, that the 38% leave voters from Scotland are being represented in Westminster from those in charge of Brexit, I think it just grinds on peoples gears when the SNP say they are speaking for Scotland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Dunphy Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 Project Fear 2 kicking off. No need for any projects, since the SNP can't call for a referendum anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablo Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 Indyref 2 , rightly or wrongly will become a choice between leaving the union of the UK, to joining a union of European countries and adopting the Euro and everything that goes with it. Good luck with that one, and I say that as someone who was firmly Remain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deesidejambo Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 No need for any projects, since the SNP can't call for a referendum anyway. They can call for one but it's Westminster who have to agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reaths17 Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 Was it not Scotsmen that started the KKK? couldnae have been, us scots are all saints. we'll at least the minority who voted for independence. that's why they feel the need to abuse those that didn't agree with them, its their KKK tendancies................ who woulda knew. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 Indyref 2 , rightly or wrongly will become a choice between leaving the union of the UK, to joining a union of European countries and adopting the Euro and everything that goes with it. Good luck with that one, and I say that as someone who was firmly Remain. Will it? That's not a nailed on cert regards the Euro etc. It may be highly likely, perhaps that would become apparent in the campaign. As an aside, I'd want an Indy Scotland to hold a referendum on EU membership after indy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaymarketJambo Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 Will it? That's not a nailed on cert regards the Euro etc. It may be highly likely, perhaps that would become apparent in the campaign. As an aside, I'd want an Indy Scotland to hold a referendum on EU membership after indy. Good post This. I'm with you on this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 They can call for one but it's Westminster who have to agree. If you and a few others are so sure of winning a few posts ago, what would be the problem calling indy ref 2? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Murray Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 Will it? That's not a nailed on cert regards the Euro etc. It may be highly likely, perhaps that would become apparent in the campaign. As an aside, I'd want an Indy Scotland to hold a referendum on EU membership after indy. I said somewhere else, and I think others have said, the SNP's pro EU stance could be more to do with causing disharmony within the UK, rather than any great will to be part of the European Union. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Dunphy Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 If you and a few others are so sure of winning a few posts ago, what would be the problem calling indy ref 2? Because we don't want to let revisionist nutjobs like you try and divide our society even further. Not because we're afraid of the result of a referendum that Sturgeon and her pals don't even have the power to call Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Lyon Posted February 9, 2017 Author Share Posted February 9, 2017 What will NS and the SNP do when TM says no to a second independence referendum? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 Because we don't want to let revisionist nutjobs like you try and divide our society even further. Not because we're afraid of the result of a referendum that Sturgeon and her pals don't even have the power to call Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk And heres me thinking after 2014 and everyone getting back to normal life and then Brexit happened. They were well warned that a leave vote would break up the UK. But you knew that eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 What will NS and the SNP do when TM says no to a second independence referendum? Have one anyway. Political suicide for TM, and the Tories in Scotland, to deny it. Then you could have the situation where the SNP stand on an Independence mandate at the next WM election. A majority of SNP MP's get elected and that's it. Independence. A scenario the SNP have more chance of winning than another referendum, perhaps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deesidejambo Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 If you and a few others are so sure of winning a few posts ago, what would be the problem calling indy ref 2? I don't have a problem at all. I'd do it tomorrow to get this divisiveness put to rest once and for all. Bring it on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankblack Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 And heres me thinking after 2014 and everyone getting back to normal life and then Brexit happened. They were well warned that a leave vote would break up the UK. But you knew that eh? It looks more likely a leave vote will break up the SNP when Indy 2 falls on its arse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deesidejambo Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 Will it? That's not a nailed on cert regards the Euro etc. It may be highly likely, perhaps that would become apparent in the campaign. As an aside, I'd want an Indy Scotland to hold a referendum on EU membership after indy. That won't work as peeps would have to second guess the second referendum result before choising how to vote on the first one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 I don't have a problem at all. I'd do it tomorrow to get this divisiveness put to rest once and for all. Bring it on. It will never be once and for all. They're will always be support for an independent Scotland. Currently it's at high tide, how long that remains is anyones guess. Tides will go out but then they will come back in again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 I don't have a problem at all. I'd do it tomorrow to get this divisiveness put to rest once and for all. Bring it on. We'll decide thank you very much [emoji4] Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deesidejambo Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 It will never be once and for all. They're will always be support for an independent Scotland. Currently it's at high tide, how long that remains is anyones guess. Tides will go out but then they will come back in again. Ok once in a generation then. Oops we tried that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 That won't work as peeps would have to second guess the second referendum result before choising how to vote on the first one. Disagree. If you don't want the EU, then you won't want independence, even although you'd like that. If offered a ref on EU after, then you would vote YES. Equally, you may be pro EU and aghast at Brexit you previously had voted NO to indy, but happy to vote YES now so you get a chance at EU. Not sure it would make that much difference tbh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deesidejambo Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 We'll decide thank you very much [emoji4] Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro Indeed you will, but you will have a long wait till your support gets to Nicolas trigger level. And even then the UK Govt needs to agree. Can't see that any time soon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 Ok once in a generation then. Oops we tried that. You can't put a timescale on these things. What if support for indy goes through the roof in the next 6 months? Would you still say, nah sorry, once in a generation, despite polls showing 75% approval? I don't think this will happen btw, just using it as an argument against the once in a generation thing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricardo Shillyshally Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 What will NS and the SNP do when TM says no to a second independence referendum? They'll do what they always do - blame the big bad English tories Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankblack Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 You can't put a timescale on these things. What if support for indy goes through the roof in the next 6 months? Would you still say, nah sorry, once in a generation, despite polls showing 75% approval? I don't think this will happen btw, just using it as an argument against the once in a generation thing! I think the SNP has shot itself in both feet and alienated their own leave voters, so will be lucky to get 30% in another Indy vote. I wouldn't be surprised if TM lets them have their referendum because the SNP have a near impossible task to overcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 Wikipedia bans The Daily Mail as a source of reference. That's a quite a few posters on here snookered. https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/technology/2017/feb/08/wikipedia-bans-daily-mail-as-unreliable-source-for-website?client=safari Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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