New Stand: Ongoing work (updated)

[Brave Hearts]

5 minutes ago, Red Jamie said:

 

The stand isn't being built just for you... 

 

Part of the reason for this new development is to expand on our corporate facilities and have the main stand be usable all year round, not just at the weekends. Part of these facilities, the jewel in the crown some might say, is the Skyline Lounge. It's been designed, presented, and advertised with a focus on the view that it offers of, wait for it, the Edinburgh Skyline. Budge has apparently said herself she's disappointed with the true view compared to the advertised view. Nobody is trying to pull the wool over your eyes, Brave Heart. I'm happy for you that you don't use these facilities, but if they're not up to the standard we expected them to be then they're going to be a harder sell and ultimately impact any future earning potential. A lot of posters on here have put their hard earned cash into the stand, and with fan ownership on the horizon, it's completely acceptable for supporters to query and have feelings about something you personally may never use. 

 

 

Of course stand isn't for me. Nor is it for you, or any other individual. It is for all of us.

 

I do use hospitality facilities as I stated in my post. And will continue to use them.

 

Good to know that as I also contribute my hard earned cash as well and will be using the facilities that it is acceptable to have feelings on this subject.

[Brave Hearts]

15 minutes ago, Red Jamie said:

 

That's it guys, no more seating updates unless it's a picture of Brave Hearts' seat. Why would he need to see images of any other seat? It's a waste of his time and we should be ashamed.

What ???????

[Notts1874]

2 minutes ago, Bad Religion said:

 

Where has she said this?

I would also be interested to see this quote.

[BigC]

3 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

Just because we need them to be there doesn't necessarily put them on the critical path, but going off topic here. 

 

I take the "critical path" to mean "all the stuff that needs to be completed to allow us to open the stand before the Killie game".

 

So thinks like seats, toilets and emergency exit signs.

 

What do you take it to mean?

[hurdie]

6 minutes ago, Bad Religion said:

 

Where has she said this?

In his head.

[Bad Religion]

Just now, hurdie said:

In his head.

 

Pretty sure this will be the answer.

[kila]

On 11/07/2017 at 11:14 PM, Thomaso said:

The bottom line is that everybody from Ann Budge to the Architect were sure that the terrace would give a full view of the Edinburgh Skyline, based on the view from the Wheatfield and looking at the plans/height of the new stand.

Due to a combination of factors the reality only sunk in when the terrace roof was installed and there was access to the actual view. The Club and all concerned with the project are extremely disappointed that the view is not as expected and publicised - nobody was trying to con anybody but I am afraid this has back fired on the Club.

 

 

 

 

 

This is where I read Budge was disappointed about the sky lounge view

 

Nothing official, but I trust Thomaso

[BigC]

3 minutes ago, Bad Religion said:

 

Where has she said this?

 

Thomaso posted that she had said this in a meeting when the directors first went up to that part of the building and they all realised that the view wasn't as unobstructed as they thought it would be.

 

The stand had to be built in a very short time frame because if we hadn't acted to start the process, the council would have knocked down and rebuilt the nursery which would have meant we'd have been land locked.

 

As a result, things like checking how good the view would be, were not a priority, so we have a slightly worse view than expected, but you can still see the castle from some parts of the roof terrace, just not when you are sitting down at a table inside the restaurant.

 

Which is a shame, but not the be all and end all.

 

We all wish the view was more like it used to be from the top of the Wheatfield, including Ann and she has expressed that in conversations with people (but not in a public statement).

 

I have no reason to doubt Thomaso or anyone else who has spoken to Ann about this, primarily because it's an opinion that we all share.

 

But as usual, folk are in one of two camps, either, "this is an outrage, we were promised a view of the skyline" or "if you want to see the castle, feck off to Princes St".

 

It's JKB so there's no room for nuance.

[The Future's Maroon]

2 minutes ago, BigC said:

 

Thomaso posted that she had said this in a meeting when the directors first went up to that part of the building and they all realised that the view wasn't as unobstructed as they thought it would be.

 

The stand had to be built in a very short time frame because if we hadn't acted to start the process, the council would have knocked down and rebuilt the nursery which would have meant we'd have been land locked.

 

As a result, things like checking how good the view would be, were not a priority, so we have a slightly worse view than expected, but you can still see the castle from some parts of the roof terrace, just not when you are sitting down at a table inside the restaurant.

 

Which is a shame, but not the be all and end all.

 

We all wish the view was more like it used to be from the top of the Wheatfield, including Ann and she has expressed that in conversations with people (but not in a public statement).

 

I have no reason to doubt Thomaso or anyone else who has spoken to Ann about this, primarily because it's an opinion that we all share.

 

But as usual, folk are in one of two camps, either, "this is an outrage, we were promised a view of the skyline" or "if you want to see the castle, feck off to Princes St".

 

It's JKB so there's no room for nuance.

 

Well said, especially the last paragraph.

[Buffalo Bill]

2 hours ago, busby1985 said:

Can’t see it being ready for the 5th. That’s 26 days away and we have installed 180 seats according to this thread. The far end closest too the roseburn still seems miles away from being ready. Obua, what’s your thoughts on completion and the 5th, you think this is do able? Defo worth waiting for, looks incredible, even more so when you compare it to the 94 picture. 

 

I'm a bit less confident now than what I was a couple of weeks ago when they started putting in the lower decking ... but ... if we do have to go to M/field for one more extra game then it's not the end of the world. We've got a massive run of home fixtures coming up in Nov/Dec so we'll get back to our home soon enough. 

 

The building of a new Main Stand is something I've wanted Hearts to do since the Gorgie was completed in 1997. I hope she's ready for the 5th Nov but if not, I can wait another week or so, having already waited 20 years.

 

 

[Red Jamie]

12 minutes ago, Bad Religion said:

 

Pretty sure this will be the answer.

 

Wrong  

[Buffalo Bill]

The horizontal railings on the concourse between rows 10 & 11 will be thinner and easier to see through than the other stands, due to feedback that people have views obstructed. 

 

Ann said recently that they might change them in the other three stands too if the new stand railings are a big improvement.

[Bad Religion]

5 minutes ago, Red Jamie said:

 

Wrong  

 

Which is the next negative or imaginary negative you are going to inconspicuously draw everyone's attention to?

Edited October 10, 2017 by Bad Religion

[Francis Albert]

ann was certainly reported as being disappointed with the view

Why wouldn' t  she or anyone who saw the artist impression not be disappointed?

[kila]

2 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

ann was certainly reported as being disappointed with the view

Why wouldn' t  she or anyone who saw the artist impression not be disappointed?

 

I think the artist impressions have been too good

 

The skyline view from the artist impression isn't even the view you'd have got (looks nearer Craiglockhart hill)

 

 

[Red Jamie]

12 minutes ago, BigC said:

 

Thomaso posted that she had said this in a meeting when the directors first went up to that part of the building and they all realised that the view wasn't as unobstructed as they thought it would be.

 

The stand had to be built in a very short time frame because if we hadn't acted to start the process, the council would have knocked down and rebuilt the nursery which would have meant we'd have been land locked.

 

As a result, things like checking how good the view would be, were not a priority, so we have a slightly worse view than expected, but you can still see the castle from some parts of the roof terrace, just not when you are sitting down at a table inside the restaurant.

 

Which is a shame, but not the be all and end all.

 

We all wish the view was more like it used to be from the top of the Wheatfield, including Ann and she has expressed that in conversations with people (but not in a public statement).

 

I have no reason to doubt Thomaso or anyone else who has spoken to Ann about this, primarily because it's an opinion that we all share.

 

But as usual, folk are in one of two camps, either, "this is an outrage, we were promised a view of the skyline" or "if you want to see the castle, feck off to Princes St".

 

It's JKB so there's no room for nuance.

 

Thanks to you and the other posters for clearing that up. I hadn't known much of that. I thought the issue was more with how prominent Tynecastle High was in the view than the fact you can't even see the castle from your seat. Does this mean we can't really advertise that as feature? 

 

Where was the footage that was posted on Hearts Facebook page a few weeks ago taken from? There's a lot of School in that view, but the castle is still visible.

 

[busby1985]

20 minutes ago, Buffalo Bill said:

 

I'm a bit less confident now than what I was a couple of weeks ago when they started putting in the lower decking ... but ... if we do have to go to M/field for one more extra game then it's not the end of the world. We've got a massive run of home fixtures coming up in Nov/Dec so we'll get back to our home soon enough. 

 

The building of a new Main Stand is something I've wanted Hearts to do since the Gorgie was completed in 1997. I hope she's ready for the 5th Nov but if not, I can wait another week or so, having already waited 20 years.

 

 

Same. If I need to wait another month, in the long run, who cares. The facilities don’t just make us look better it will be a huge finicial boost to the club. 

[BigC]

I would imagine that picture was taken from the roof of the stand rather than the roof terrace which is lower down. 

[Deek]

13 minutes ago, Buffalo Bill said:

 

I'm a bit less confident now than what I was a couple of weeks ago when they started putting in the lower decking ... but ... if we do have to go to M/field for one more extra game then it's not the end of the world. We've got a massive run of home fixtures coming up in Nov/Dec so we'll get back to our home soon enough. 

 

The building of a new Main Stand is something I've wanted Hearts to do since the Gorgie was completed in 1997. I hope she's ready for the 5th Nov but if not, I can wait another week or so, having already waited 20 years.

 

 

 

Said last week thought it might be ready for the Hibs game. Just a rumour I heard. But hoping ready next month as looking forward to going home.

[davemclaren]

41 minutes ago, BigC said:

 

I take the "critical path" to mean "all the stuff that needs to be completed to allow us to open the stand before the Killie game".

 

So thinks like seats, toilets and emergency exit signs.

 

What do you take it to mean?

 

They all have to be done but the critcal path depends on the dependancies. If there is a strict dependency between installing the plumbing and fitting the thrones and those two tasks take rhe longest time of all the tasks then that would be the critical path you need to focus on.  A bit of a simple example but... 

[kila]

5 minutes ago, Red Jamie said:

 

Thanks to you and the other posters for clearing that up. I hadn't known much of that. I thought the issue was more with how prominent Tynecastle High was in the view than the fact you can't even see the castle from your seat. Does this mean we can't really advertise that as feature? 

 

Where was the footage that was posted on Hearts Facebook page a few weeks ago taken from? There's a lot of School in that view, but the castle is still visible.

 

 

 

Roof of the sky lounge, they are looking into viewing gallery according thomaso

[BigC]

9 minutes ago, Barack said:

Reported by whom? Officially?

 

Genuinely curious.

 

3rd hand info that Thomaso’s heard from someone, who may have heard from someone who was at a meeting? (Not having a go at Thomaso's info here, but if we’re just going on hearsay...)

 

Disingenous to say otherwise.

 

Thomaso's account is also consistent with the photos we have seen though.

 

If you look at the artists impression, then compare it to photos of the castle from the roof terrace,  it's clear that all concerned though the view would be better than it has ended up being.

 

If you showed the two photos side by side to someone with no interest and said "is that view as good as that view?" 100% would say the mock up was better than the real thing.

 

So it's not a stretch to think Ann would have the same opinion.

 

And when that's confirmed by someone working on the project, who meets her regularly, why is it even a conversation?

[SUTOL]

I'm a bit surprised the view of the castle isn't as good as expected. 

 

Does anyone know how high in the Wheatfield stand you needed to be to get a good view? 

 

 

[sairyinthat]

Folk talking about 180ish seats installed,wildy out in my view.Should a head on photo pop up it will show well over the 300 mark that is not the first set of steps being shown in the photo.

[Gavsy Van Gaverson]

10 minutes ago, Deek said:

 

Said last week thought it might be ready for the Hibs game. Just a rumour I heard. But hoping ready next month as looking forward to going home.

 

Why would they aim for it to be ready for the Hibs game. It's at ER. 

[Deek]

Just now, Gavsy Van Gaverson said:

 

Why would they aim for it to be ready for the Hibs game. It's at ER. 

 

One for ignore box thanks.

[Thomaso]

18 minutes ago, Barack said:

Reported by whom? Officially?

 

Genuinely curious.

 

3rd hand info that Thomaso’s heard from someone, who may have heard from someone who was at a meeting? (Not having a go at Thomaso's info here, but if we’re just going on hearsay...)

 

Disingenous to say otherwise.

 

 

No offence taken Barack, but it was a bit more than "hearsay".

 

After our PR Dept jumping the gun (again) and announcing a Castle view, I think you can appreciate that Ann was not too pleased when she finally had an opportunity of seeing the actual view.  You will appreciate that Ann was too diplomatic to "officially" announce her disappointment to the fans or media.

[HoGwash]

1 hour ago, davemclaren said:

Just because we need them to be there doesn't necessarily put them on the critical path, but going off topic here. 

The Project Manager in you is coming out Dave.

[FarmerTweedy]

35 minutes ago, BigC said:

 

I take the "critical path" to mean "all the stuff that needs to be completed to allow us to open the stand before the Killie game".

 

So thinks like seats, toilets and emergency exit signs.

 

What do you take it to mean?

My understanding of 'critical path' is tasks within a project which, if not completed on the planned timescale, would delay other tasks which would result in the overall project not being able to be completed on time.

 

So if a project had 3 main tasks, and task 1 was expected to take 10 days, task 2 5 days and task 3 15 days, and if tasks 2 and 3 couldn't be started until task 1 was finished, but could be done at the same time as each other, task 2 wouldn't be deemed as being on the critical path as there is scope for it to take longer than expected without impacting on the overall completion of the project. Tasks 1 and 3 would be on the critical path as any overrun on either of them would impact the planned overall completion date. 

 

Whether the installation of the seats is on the critical path or not is something only people on the project would know. It's possible the plan is for completion of the seat installation to happen a good week or so before it's actually necessary, and if so, that task wouldn't be on the critical path. 

 

I do suspect it probably is though!

[Don Dan]

5 minutes ago, FarmerTweedy said:

My understanding of 'critical path' is tasks within a project which, if not completed on the planned timescale, would delay other tasks which would result in the overall project not being able to be completed on time.

 

So if a project had 3 main tasks, and task 1 was expected to take 10 days, task 2 5 days and task 3 15 days, and if tasks 2 and 3 couldn't be started until task 1 was finished, but could be done at the same time as each other, task 2 wouldn't be deemed as being on the critical path as there is scope for it to take longer than expected without impacting on the overall completion of the project. Tasks 1 and 3 would be on the critical path as any overrun on either of them would impact the planned overall completion date. 

 

Whether the installation of the seats is on the critical path or not is something only people on the project would know. It's possible the plan is for completion of the seat installation to happen a good week or so before it's actually necessary, and if so, that task wouldn't be on the critical path. 

 

I do suspect it probably is though!

  My that's just like a question from an Arithmetic exam paper. It may explain why my eyes went all fuzzy trying to read it.

Edited October 10, 2017 by Dannie Boy

[Gavsy Van Gaverson]

8 minutes ago, Deek said:

 

One for ignore box thanks.

 

[Gershwin]

6 minutes ago, Thomaso said:

 

 

No offence taken Barack, but it was a bit more than "hearsay".

 

After our PR Dept jumping the gun (again) and announcing a Castle view, I think you can appreciate that Ann was not too pleased when she finally had an opportunity of seeing the actual view.  You will appreciate that Ann was too diplomatic to "officially" announce her disappointment to the fans or media.

 

What did she make of the weird milky opaque windows?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Although I'm kind of serious

[Footballfirst]

3 minutes ago, sairyinthat said:

Folk talking about 180ish seats installed,wildy out in my view.Should a head on photo pop up it will show well over the 300 mark that is not the first set of steps being shown in the photo.

 

It might be over 300 now, but the photo showing the seats installed was taken from Section T close to the Police box.  It's the only section (bar N) with a stairway that goes straight, all the way down to the walkway between the lower and upper section, but the photo obviously hasn't been taken from N.  The stairways in all the central sections wrap around the entry/exit passageways

 

In the photo Rows 11-15 have 24 seats  + 6 in the wing section, and row 16 has 28 seats + 6 in the wing section.  (184 in total)

[FarmerTweedy]

5 minutes ago, Dannie Boy said:

  My that's just like a question from an Arithmetic exam paper. It may explain why my eyes went all fuzzy trying to read it.

TBH, I'd got bored with the post before I finished typing it but had reached the point where I wasn't going to have done that typing for nothing!

[Thomaso]

11 minutes ago, FarmerTweedy said:

My understanding of 'critical path' is tasks within a project which, if not completed on the planned timescale, would delay other tasks which would result in the overall project not being able to be completed on time.

 

So if a project had 3 main tasks, and task 1 was expected to take 10 days, task 2 5 days and task 3 15 days, and if tasks 2 and 3 couldn't be started until task 1 was finished, but could be done at the same time as each other, task 2 wouldn't be deemed as being on the critical path as there is scope for it to take longer than expected without impacting on the overall completion of the project. Tasks 1 and 3 would be on the critical path as any overrun on either of them would impact the planned overall completion date. 

 

Whether the installation of the seats is on the critical path or not is something only people on the project would know. It's possible the plan is for completion of the seat installation to happen a good week or so before it's actually necessary, and if so, that task wouldn't be on the critical path. 

 

I do suspect it probably is though!

 

Simplistically, anything that must be completed to get an occupancy certificate in time for the Killie game, is on the critical path - that includes the seats.

[Red Jamie]

27 minutes ago, BigC said:

I would imagine that picture was taken from the roof of the stand rather than the roof terrace which is lower down. 

 

Thanks that makes sense. The social media team are having an absolute mare with this. The club should really be upfront and honest about these changes and limitations, or at least make sure all social media posts are approved for clarity. 

 

3 minutes ago, Gershwin said:

 

What did she make of the weird milky opaque windows?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Although I'm kind of serious

 

Id genuinely like to know this too. I understand why the curtain had to be curtailed but why did we need to use rows of opaque glass? The original plans clearly describe a completely transparent front to show off the hustle and bustle of the going’s on inside. Now it’s regular windows. Something like the festival theatre or the omni surely would have been a better compromise?

[Thomaso]

8 minutes ago, Gershwin said:

 

What did she make of the weird milky opaque windows?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Although I'm kind of serious

 

"weird"?????

 

 

[Erik]

5 minutes ago, Thomaso said:

 

Simplistically, anything that must be completed to get an occupancy certificate in time for the Killie game, is on the critical path - that includes the seats.

 

And when is the completion date for the critical path to allow us to play Kilmarnock at Tynecastle?

 

i.e - what is the latest we can get the occupancy / safety checks and certificates and whatever else dealt with?

[Thomaso]

1 minute ago, Red Jamie said:

 

Thanks that makes sense. The social media team are having an absolute mare with this. The club should really be upfront and honest about these changes and limitations, or at least make sure all social media posts are approved for clarity. 

 

 

Id genuinely like to know this too. I understand why the curtain had to be curtailed but why did we need to use rows of opaque glass? The original plans clearly describe a completely transparent front to show off the hustle and bustle of the going’s on inside. Now it’s regular windows. Something like the festival theatre or the omni surely would have been a better compromise?

 

 

Jeez guys how many times does this need to be explained! 

 

In summary - the façade must meet stringent U value (insulation) and solar gain criteria.  Hence the need to incorporate enamelled glass insulated panels to comply with the Building Regs.

 

The Architect also did not want to show the internal concrete slabs at all the floor levels.

[JyTees]

Electricity and plumbing are critical, and all dependent on other things being in place. If a spark can't run a cable and install some sockets because there's nothing to contain the cable or install the sockets on...looking at the stand and counting seats isn't going to give anyone any clue as to when the stand will be operational.

 

It's the stuff you can't see.

 

Let's sell out Murrayfield for the Christmas derby and let the Lochenders help pay for our shiny new stand. The irony would be beautiful.

[Thomaso]

5 minutes ago, Erik said:

 

And when is the completion date for the critical path to allow us to play Kilmarnock at Tynecastle?

 

i.e - what is the latest we can get the occupancy / safety checks and certificates and whatever else dealt with?

 

I am not party to the actual date, however I do know that the Project Manager has been in close discussion with the Council for some time, and they have agreed exactly what needs to be completed to allow a temporary occupancy certificate and the deadline date for doing so

[sairyinthat]

Got to disagree with you FF that is the second staircase not the one at the gable end by the police control box.But we will see soon enough I imagine.

[HMFC86]

22 minutes ago, Thomaso said:

 

 

Jeez guys how many times does this need to be explained! 

 

In summary - the façade must meet stringent U value (insulation) and solar gain criteria.  Hence the need to incorporate enamelled glass insulated panels to comply with the Building Regs.

 

The Architect also did not want to show the internal concrete slabs at all the floor levels.

Reckon you should have used Kickbacks new fancy functions and put this in bold.....will make it easier to find when you’re asked tomorrow ?

Edited October 10, 2017 by HMFC86
Spelling

[kila]

34 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

 

It might be over 300 now, but the photo showing the seats installed was taken from Section T close to the Police box.  It's the only section (bar N) with a stairway that goes straight, all the way down to the walkway between the lower and upper section, but the photo obviously hasn't been taken from N.  The stairways in all the central sections wrap around the entry/exit passageways

 

In the photo Rows 11-15 have 24 seats  + 6 in the wing section, and row 16 has 28 seats + 6 in the wing section.  (184 in total)

 

7 minutes ago, sairyinthat said:

Got to disagree with you FF that is the second staircase not the one at the gable end by the police control box.But we will see soon enough I imagine.

 

 

Can work it out from these two recently posted photos:

 

 

[netherleejambo]

I think we need a volunteer to do a dot count.....

[campbell]

.

[Dayman]

With regards to the stand being ready- surely the seats are the last of our worries? We need numerous skilled workers all over our stand to get it ready and things have to be done in a certain order. The seats are straightforward and can be done at any time. If they are all that's needed to hear done by the morning if the first game then I'm sure we could get 50 temp workers to do a shift over night doing 10 an hour each. Bit of a exaggeration but you get my point. 

[BigC]

1 hour ago, FarmerTweedy said:

My understanding of 'critical path' is tasks within a project which, if not completed on the planned timescale, would delay other tasks which would result in the overall project not being able to be completed on time.

 

So if a project had 3 main tasks, and task 1 was expected to take 10 days, task 2 5 days and task 3 15 days, and if tasks 2 and 3 couldn't be started until task 1 was finished, but could be done at the same time as each other, task 2 wouldn't be deemed as being on the critical path as there is scope for it to take longer than expected without impacting on the overall completion of the project. Tasks 1 and 3 would be on the critical path as any overrun on either of them would impact the planned overall completion date. 

 

Whether the installation of the seats is on the critical path or not is something only people on the project would know. It's possible the plan is for completion of the seat installation to happen a good week or so before it's actually necessary, and if so, that task wouldn't be on the critical path. 

 

I do suspect it probably is though!

 

That makes sense.

[Dayman]

This is where we were at 26 days ago. Alot can be done in that time! And there's probably been a load done inside also. 

[Dallas Green]

Tynecastle Park is looking beautiful. 

 

I can't wait for the Killie game.