New Stand: Ongoing work (updated)

[Toggie88]

Sad that some people can't muster anything more than snide little digs and obvious trolling. An utter cluster**** based on a crumpled photo of a proposal.

 

The crumpled photo is the most realistic concept of what the stand will look like. Every other image of the outside of the new stand includes something which will no longer be there, according to Thomaso. 

[The Future's Maroon]

Even by JKB standards I am taken aback by the 'leap to judgement' from some on here, who are totally oblivious to the facts.

 

Please consider the following -

 

As I have stated previously the Club had to act very quickly to suit the Council's imminent plans to build a new nursery on the existing plot. The Club therefore had to pull together a document to submit/gain Planning permission from the Council with no time to finalise construction details. As part of the Club's Planning application there was a basic 'artist impression' of the new glazed fa?ade.

 

Once Planning approval was gained, intensive efforts were made by the Architect, structural engineers, and subcontractors, to finalise all construction details for the new stand, and carry out a full risk assessment for the project.

 

The design of the glazed fa?ade had to take into consideration safety, programme, functionality and cost.

 

Safety - an all glass fa?ade as shown on the initial 'artists impression' gave rise to various safety concerns, specifically the risk of a pane of glass breaking and falling on hundreds of spectators walking in and around the stadium. To mitigate this risk a framed curtain wall system was the best option as this type of system will hold the pane of glass in place in the event of a breakage.

 

Programme - as all should be aware the Club are working to an extremely tight programme of works. As such it was just not practical to design and install a time consuming 'bespoke' fa?ade, therefore a more standard curtain wall glazed system was the only practical option to meet the completion date.

 

Functionality - can I remind all that the prime reason we are building this new stand is to increase capacity, have enhanced corporate facilities, and improve the viewing of the game for spectators. With respect we are not attempting to construct a building for entry to the Nobel Prize for Architecture.

 

Cost - there is a finite and tight budget here, and I am sure we all agree with Mrs Budge in that we will not run up huge debt. We do not have the money to install a revolutionary bespoke all glass fa?ade - however I believe that we will have an extremely impressive frontage that we can all be proud of WHEN COMPLETED - with the exception of some on here obviously.

 

Please also note that the Council Planners want continuity of the 'streetscape' and the school over the road also has glazed curtain wall systems in some areas.

 

I realise that you cannot please everybody and all want their say, however I hope the above clarifies some of the facts here.

Firstly, please ignore the trolls, your input on this thread has been excellent and vital in keeping fans informed.

 

Also, is the glass laminated or toughened? I think some who read your post may have a vision of big chunks of glass falling if broken. I would assume it will have to be toughened due to the internal side of it (below 800mm from floor it must be toughened I think is the rule, but does laminated fall into that category also)?

 

I would assume if laminated it certainty shouldn't fall out, if toughened then all that would fall is the 'millions' of wee pieces!

 

I hope my query comes across right and you get what I am asking, had a couple of pints already today. If you can't answer no worries....you seem to have had a tough time, wrongly, over last 24hrs.

Edited March 15, 2017 by The Future's Maroon

[Beast Boy]

Sad that some people can't muster anything more than snide little digs and obvious trolling. An utter cluster**** based on a crumpled photo of a proposal.

Nut, that's not true. Thomaso has confirmed that the glass facade will not stick out either side of the part of the stand it is attached to, completely different to the plans we all thought were in the process of being built.

 

It doesn't take a massive amount of imagination to make a picture in your mind of how it will look, if you chop off any bits of glass sticking out further than the most forward protruding part of the new main stand, going by the plans.

[Cut The Crap]

I was trying to think what the Crumpled Pub Flyer image reminded me of, and then it hit me.

 

[Toggie88]

Where do you get that understanding from? Certainly not the crumpled drawing, and not from Thomaso.

 

He gets it from every other artists impression that the club has officially released... Like everyone else did until now (except those ITK). 

[Beast Boy]

Where do you get that understanding from? Certainly not the crumpled drawing, and not from Thomaso.

I take it from him saying that it will be framed glass and that the picture we are all now seeing for the first time is a more accurate representation of what we are getting. Compared to the plans we have all seen up until now, that is shite in comparison.

[Bad Religion]

I was trying to think what the Crumpled Pub Flyer image reminded me of, and then it hit me.

 

 

Haha, it does look very similar.

[rudi must stay]

That looks even better than any designs thus far.

Ye. Love the simplicity of it, Tynecastle Park and the badge. Nothing flash, and the scale of it looks impressive with the glass

[Unknown user]

Ye. Love the simplicity of it, Tynecastle Park and the badge. Nothing flash, and the scale of it looks impressive with the glass

I'm trying to stay positive but every time I look at it I hear the theme tune to the Office

[Thomaso]

No. I'm basing it on my understanding that it will just be a curved bit of glass jutting out from the part of the stand that it is attached to, and nothing like the facade that we have all been expecting up until now.

 

In comparison to how we were thinking it would look, it's incredibly disappointing.

 

 

[Thomaso]

I take it from him saying that it will be framed glass and that the picture we are all now seeing for the first time is a more accurate representation of what we are getting. Compared to the plans we have all seen up until now, that is shite in comparison.

 

In YOUR opinion.

[Thomaso]

I was trying to think what the Crumpled Pub Flyer image reminded me of, and then it hit me.

 

 

 

Wow your right - very similar - apart from the fact the HMFC fa?ade will be curved and fully glazed.

[Hackney Hearts]

I take it from him saying that it will be framed glass and that the picture we are all now seeing for the first time is a more accurate representation of what we are getting. Compared to the plans we have all seen up until now, that is shite in comparison.

 

Sorry, maybe we're talking at cross purposes - but you said your understanding was that the new design "will just be a curved bit of glass jutting out from the part of the stand that it is attached to". I don't see that on the crumpled plan, or in Thomaso's description.

[Beast Boy]

In YOUR opinion.

Obviously. Can you clear it up for me then, since I'm clearly stupid?

 

Will the new glass facade stick out further than the face of the most outward jutting part of the new stand that it will be attached too?

[Toggie88]

I'm trying to stay positive but every time I look at it I hear the theme tune to the Office

 

[Hackney Hearts]

Obviously. Can you clear it up for me then, since I'm clearly stupid?

 

Will the new glass facade stick out further than the face of the most outward jutting part of the new stand that it will be attached too?

 

Do you want it to? 

[Beast Boy]

Sorry, maybe we're talking at cross purposes - but you said your understanding was that the new design "will just be a curved bit of glass jutting out from the part of the stand that it is attached to". I don't see that on the crumpled plan, or in Thomaso's description.

We must be mate. From the bits of info that I have been able to put in to a picture, the glass facade is curved, and framed, but contrary to the plans we have all been looking at up until now, it's the same length as the most outwardly jutting face of the new stand, and does not protrude out any further at either end of its length.

Edited March 15, 2017 by Du?ko

[Beast Boy]

Do you want it to?

Yes. It's one of the things I liked about it's design. The generic nondescript nature of what I am now starting to understand is the final design will look a lot shitter. IMO.

[scabber]

Im not impressed by that crumpled photo like a lot of people, but i would imagine we are way past being able to change much as i would think oreders have been placed and already in manufacture.so im in the wait and see and hope its better in real life than that impression

[Toggie88]

Thomaso, 

 

What was the plan for the original glass facade in the official artists impressions? 

 

Curtain wall, structural glazing or spider glazing on a tension rod system? 

 

Please and thank you. 

Edited March 15, 2017 by Toggie88

[rudi must stay]

Exactly what I was thinking - have we now got several people on the wind up? 

 

I think so. The side bits with the maroon actually work well

[Hackney Hearts]

We must be mate. From the bits of info that I have been able to put in to a picture, the glass facade is curved, and framed, but contrary to the plans we have all been looking at up until now, it's the same length as the most outwardly jutting face of the new stand, and does not protrude out any further at either end of its length.

 

 

I see now. When you were complaining about "a curved bit of glass jutting out from the part of the stand that it is attached to" I thought you meant jutting out at each end (rather than from rear to front). 

[gorgie rd eh11]

 

 

 Aye that's similar.  

[@VladMagic]

Perhaps the artists impression in the crumpled photo was an OLD impression and has since been binned hence it ended up being CRUMPLED up and handed over in a pub FFS!!!

[Francis Albert]

Just seen the crumpled artist's impression. I have no idea whether it is genuine or supersedes previous versions but I can't see how anyone can deny it looks fecking awful, like any cheap light industrial or office building of the last 30 years. The really worrying thing, if it is genuine, is that artists impressions always look better than what is built, and what is built (especially this sort of "modern" glass frontage) looks even worse after 10 or 20 years.

 

Two things give me hope. First I can't see the club getting away with such a departure from the basis on which planning consent was given. Second the "Tynecastle Park" sign - never seen any suggestion except on here that we shouldrevert to the old name on completing the new stadium.

[Thomaso]

Firstly, please ignore the trolls, your input on this thread has been excellent and vital in keeping fans informed.

 

Also, is the glass laminated or toughened? I think some who read your post may have a vision of big chunks of glass falling if broken. I would assume it will have to be toughened due to the internal side of it (below 800mm from floor it must be toughened I think is the rule, but does laminated fall into that category also)?

 

I would assume if laminated it certainty shouldn't fall out, if toughened then all that would fall is the 'millions' of wee pieces!

 

I hope my query comes across right and you get what I am asking, had a couple of pints already today. If you can't answer no worries....you seem to have had a tough time, wrongly, over last 24hrs.

 

Comes across as a genuine question, so I will give you a genuine answer.

 

The initial artists impression indicated an 'all glass' fa?ade. On these types of facades the individual glass panels are held into position with stainless steel bolt fittings in each corner.  Usually they are glazed with toughened glass units, as toughened glass is structurally suitable for accepting the holes in the glass for the bolts. 

 

After a full H&S risk assessment (after submission of the Planning document) it was ascertained that toughened glass would not be suitable due to the risk of shattering and the glass fragments falling on fans below.  The option of going to a laminate glass (where broken fragments are held in position) gave rise to concerns on risk of subsequent cracking of the laminate glass at the hole positions due to stress. A laminated 'all glass' fa?ade would also have been way over the tight budget the Club have for building the new stand.

 

Taking these factors into play the decision was to go for a framed curtain wall option which would address all the H&S issues and be within the Club's budget.

[Toggie88]

Just seen the crumpled artist's impression. I have no idea whether it is genuine or supersedes previous versions but I can't see how anyone can deny it looks fecking awful, like any cheap light industrial or office building of the last 30 years. The really worrying thing, if it is genuine, is that artists impressions always look better than what is built, and what is built (especially this sort of "modern" glass frontage) looks even worse after 10 or 20 years.

 

Two things give me hope. First I can't see the club getting away with such a departure from the basis on which planning consent was given. Second the "Tynecastle Park" sign - never seen any suggestion except on here that we shouldrevert to the old name on completing the new stadium.

 

Thomaso has confirmed it's closer to the final design than the other ones. 

[Beast Boy]

I see now. When you were complaining about "a curved bit of glass jutting out from the part of the stand that it is attached to" I thought you meant jutting out at each end (rather than from rear to front).

Cheers.

 

My issue with it, is that Inreally liked all the pictures which showed the glass curtain sticking out from the part of the stand it was attached to, and I like that it was longer than the face it was attached to.

 

I think the designs we are seeing now where it is the same length as the outward facing part of the new stand, look shite compared to what we thought was happening.

[redm]

 

 

 

Comes across as a genuine question, so I will give you a genuine answer.

 

The initial artists impression indicated an 'all glass' fa?ade. On these types of facades the individual glass panels are held into position with stainless steel bolt fittings in each corner.  Usually they are glazed with toughened glass units, as toughened glass is structurally suitable for accepting the holes in the glass for the bolts. 

 

After a full H&S risk assessment (after submission of the Planning document) it was ascertained that toughened glass would not be suitable due to the risk of shattering and the glass fragments falling on fans below.  The option of going to a laminate glass (where broken fragments are held in position) gave rise to concerns on risk of subsequent cracking of the laminate glass at the hole positions due to stress. A laminated 'all glass' fa?ade would also have been way over the tight budget the Club have for building the new stand.

 

Taking these factors into play the decision was to go for a framed curtain wall option which would address all the H&S issues and be within the Club's budget.

 

Aha. This also answers my question. Many thanks.

[Thomaso]

Obviously. Can you clear it up for me then, since I'm clearly stupid?

 

Will the new glass facade stick out further than the face of the most outward jutting part of the new stand that it will be attached too?

 

My response was to your "Shite in comparison" comment.

 

As to your query, you will just have to wait and see.

[Unknown user]

Comes across as a genuine question, so I will give you a genuine answer.

 

The initial artists impression indicated an 'all glass' fa?ade. On these types of facades the individual glass panels are held into position with stainless steel bolt fittings in each corner. Usually they are glazed with toughened glass units, as toughened glass is structurally suitable for accepting the holes in the glass for the bolts.

 

After a full H&S risk assessment (after submission of the Planning document) it was ascertained that toughened glass would not be suitable due to the risk of shattering and the glass fragments falling on fans below. The option of going to a laminate glass (where broken fragments are held in position) gave rise to concerns on risk of subsequent cracking of the laminate glass at the hole positions due to stress. A laminated 'all glass' fa?ade would also have been way over the tight budget the Club have for building the new stand.

 

Taking these factors into play the decision was to go for a framed curtain wall option which would address all the H&S issues and be within the Club's budget.

Right, cool, and could you explain what exactly a framed curtain wall is and if it will indeex look more like the flyer?

[Cut The Crap]

Wow your right - very similar - apart from the fact the HMFC fa?ade will be curved and fully glazed.

 

Sorry - I actually did originally post it in jest, but the more I look at it...

 

Anyway, when I search for "fully glazed framed curtain wall facade" I see a wide variety of different styles, some stunning, others less so.

 

Can you pick and post one to give us an idea of how our final finish will look?

[Thomaso]

 

 

 

 

Are you just trolling now?  This looks FA like the fa?ade for our new stand - but you know that anyway.

[Hackney Hearts]

Taking these factors into play the decision was to go for a framed curtain wall option which would address all the H&S issues and be within the Club's budget.

 

Thanks Thomaso. Presumably this decision was taken quite a while ago?

[Lucille's Thirsty]

Jeez how many times - the new fa?ade WILL be curved!

You know most don't spend all the time on one thread continuously refreshing the page mate but thanks none the less.

[The Future's Maroon]

Comes across as a genuine question, so I will give you a genuine answer.

 

The initial artists impression indicated an 'all glass' fa?ade. On these types of facades the individual glass panels are held into position with stainless steel bolt fittings in each corner.  Usually they are glazed with toughened glass units, as toughened glass is structurally suitable for accepting the holes in the glass for the bolts. 

 

After a full H&S risk assessment (after submission of the Planning document) it was ascertained that toughened glass would not be suitable due to the risk of shattering and the glass fragments falling on fans below.  The option of going to a laminate glass (where broken fragments are held in position) gave rise to concerns on risk of subsequent cracking of the laminate glass at the hole positions due to stress. A laminated 'all glass' fa?ade would also have been way over the tight budget the Club have for building the new stand.

 

Taking these factors into play the decision was to go for a framed curtain wall option which would address all the H&S issues and be within the Club's budget.

Thanks for that, appreciate you taking time to answer.

[Toggie88]

Are you just trolling now?  This looks FA like the fa?ade for our new stand - but you know that anyway.

I was responding to a previous poster who referenced 'The Office'. I google imaged 'The Office UK building', that was one of several images that came up. 

 

Stop taking every little thing so personally. I know you're upset because a lot of people don't like the proposed glazing facade now after you've went on about how blown away everyone will be but calm down ffs. Every other artists impression showed something completely different, you can't be surprised that people comment on it. What did you expect? People not to notice?

 

Also, this looks FA like our new stand - you knew that all along though. 

Edited March 15, 2017 by Toggie88

[Thomaso]

Sorry - I actually did originally post it in jest, but the more I look at it...

 

Anyway, when I search for "fully glazed framed curtain wall facade" I see a wide variety of different styles, some stunning, others less so.

 

Can you pick and post one to give us an idea of how our final finish will look?

 

Going by the hysteria from some on here, that would be a dangerous thing to do......"but, but, you said it would look like the photograph!"

[Beast Boy]

I see now. When you were complaining about "a curved bit of glass jutting out from the part of the stand that it is attached to" I thought you meant jutting out at each end (rather than from rear to front).

Cheers.

 

My issue with it, is that Inreally liked all the pictures which showed the glass curtain sticking out from the part of the stand it was attached to, and I like that it was longer than the face it was attached to.

 

I think the designs we are seeing now where it is the same length as the outward facing part of the new stand, look shite compared to what we thought was happening.

[Thomaso]

You know most don't spend all the time on one thread continuously refreshing the page mate but thanks none the less.

 

No offence.

[Cut The Crap]

Going by the hysteria from some on here, that would be a dangerous thing to do......"but, but, you said it would look like the photograph!"

 

Yeah, fair enough. Would hate for you to find yourself strung up on one of those new maroon trees on opening day.

 

Is it fair to say it will be more Canary Wharf than Croydon office block?

[Beast Boy]

My response was to your "Shite in comparison" comment.

 

As to your query, you will just have to wait and see.

So unwilling to answer my question? Will it be longer than the part of the stand that it is immediately attached to?

 

**** me. Dinnae get so ****ing upset by people asking you questions about the design of something you are involved in, when you have not made any effort to disguise the fact that you are involved.

 

I'm sorry my question offends you so much, and that the conclusion I have been forced to form (due to your unwillingness to answer a simple question) is one of disappointment.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

.

[Thomaso]

I was responding to a previous poster who referenced 'The Office'. I google imaged 'The Office UK building', that was one of several images that came up. 

 

Stop taking every little thing so personally. I know you're upset because a lot of people don't like the proposed glazing facade now after you've went on about how blown away everyone will be but calm down ffs. Every other artists impression showed something completely different, you can't be surprised that people comment on it. What did you expect? People not to notice?

 

Also, this looks FA like our new stand - you knew that all along though. 

 

What do you mean I "knew that all along" as if I was part of some sinister plot to fool Hearts fans?

 

I was not involved in the project when these computer generated images were produced and included in the Planning application.

 

I have fully explained the reasons for subsequently having to develop the design of fa?ade to take full cognisance of actual H&S risks, programme, and cost. Up to you if you want to accept what I have said.

 

By the way I did make the comment that I thought fans would be "blown away" with the new stand both inside and out.  Obviously my definition of being blown away differs for you and others on here - that is regrettable, however the Club are fully aware it is an impossible task to satisfy every fan on what is a very emotive development for our Club.

[Thomaso]

So unwilling to answer my question? Will it be longer than the part of the stand that it is immediately attached to?

 

**** me. Dinnae get so ******* upset by people asking you questions about the design of something you are involved in, when you have not made any effort to disguise the fact that you are involved.

 

I'm sorry my question offends you so much, and that the conclusion I have been forced to form (due to your unwillingness to answer a simple question) is one of disappointment.

 

I deeply regret your disappointment

[Hackney Hearts]

If cost has been an issue, I wonder how many would put their money where their mouths are. I don't know how much extra the more expensive glass would have cost, but say it's 500k - would a majority of our 8,000 FOH contributors have made a one-off payment of ?60 to get a (potentially) more aesthetically pleasing addition to our long-term infrastructure? Would we have a referendum on such issues once we're fan-owned?

Edited March 15, 2017 by Hackney Hearts

[Beast Boy]

What do you mean I "knew that all along" as if I was part of some sinister plot to fool Hearts fans?

 

I was not involved in the project when these computer generated images were produced and included in the Planning application.

 

I have fully explained the reasons for subsequently having to develop the design of fa?ade to take full cognisance of actual H&S risks, programme, and cost. Up to you if you want to accept what I have said.

 

By the way I did make the comment that I thought fans would be "blown away" with the new stand both inside and out. Obviously my definition of being blown away differs for you and others on here - that is regrettable, however the Club are fully aware it is an impossible task to satisfy every fan on what is a very emotive development for our Club.

Nobody is going to be blown away by the outside, if it is a compromise that alters the abundant plan images that we have all been drooling over up until today. It is not as if we are talking about a minor difference to what we all thought was going to be the design, it's drastically different and in my opinion, nowhere near as aesthetically pleasing. Could you not just have let people be aware of such a drastic change in design?

 

You are quick enough to criticise Levein for his job and his communication with the fans. Christ, I'm a lot more disappointed at this development, than anything Levein has proposed and not fulfilled.

Edited March 15, 2017 by Du?ko

[Beast Boy]

If cost has been an issue, I wonder how many would put their money where their mouths are. I don't know how much extra the more expensive glass would cost, but say it's 500k - would a majority of our 8,000 FOH contributors make a one-off payment of ?60 to get a (potentially) more aesthetically pleasing addition to our long-term infrastructure? Would we have a referendum on such issues once we're fan-owned?

I'd chuck in a couple of hunner or so, absolutely.

Edited March 15, 2017 by Du?ko

[marshallschunkychicken]

Thomaso

 

Genuine question here.

 

I realise that there's a lot of hysteria here about the facade based on the one 'pub' picture.

 

Am I right in thinking that the white strips that can be seen in this pic wouldn't be part of the facade itself, but are what can be seen of the building through the facade? Or is it the case that the framing that has been required for H&S purposes has resulted in three strips of approximately three feet or so being integrated into the facade?

 

Sorry, to clarify, will the glass run 'unbroken' bar a small frame from top to bottom, or will it be split into two segments?

Edited March 15, 2017 by marshallschunkychicken

[Hackney Hearts]

After a full H&S risk assessment (after submission of the Planning document) it was ascertained that toughened glass would not be suitable due to the risk of shattering and the glass fragments falling on fans below.  The option of going to a laminate glass (where broken fragments are held in position) gave rise to concerns on risk of subsequent cracking of the laminate glass at the hole positions due to stress.

 

Are the fans at risk of falling glass here? Or is this a framed curtain wall (like we're now having)?