Brexit?

[aussieh]

Exactly Francis. What the likes of mackerel and the left don't seem to be grasping is that it's their ludicrous pouncing on anything even remotely mentioning immigrants or even any concerns has actually fuelled the rise of the right again. People are sick fed up being shot down and labelled for asking questions or even like you just making an observation after a discussion.

If you're gonnae be called one, may as well be one.

 

Is that what you're saying, jack? Or is it only Scots who are.

[Boris]

Exactly Francis. What the likes of mackerel and the left don't seem to be grasping is that it's their ludicrous pouncing on anything even remotely mentioning immigrants or even any concerns has actually fuelled the rise of the right again. People are sick fed up being shot down and labelled for asking questions or even like you just making an observation after a discussion.

 

You really don't know your left from your liberal, do you?

[jack D and coke]

If you're gonnae be called one, may as well be one.

 

Is that what you're saying, jack? Or is it only Scots who are.

Of course not but you'd think by the smugness of the SNP supporters that Scots are somehow superior to the English and we think differently....I don't agree. We have a lot of the same faults.

[jack D and coke]

You really don't know your left from your liberal, do you?

It's a turn of phrase smart arse. You knew that though.

[aussieh]

Exactly Francis. What the likes of mackerel and the left don't seem to be grasping is that it's their ludicrous pouncing on anything even remotely mentioning immigrants or even any concerns has actually fuelled the rise of the right again. People are sick fed up being shot down and labelled for asking questions or even like you just making an observation after a discussion.

Who the feck walks about counting folk? Seriously

[aussieh]

Of course not but you'd think by the smugness of the SNP supporters that Scots are somehow superior to the English and we think differently....I don't agree. We have a lot of the same faults.

Far superior.

[jack D and coke]

Far superior.

In what way?

[jack D and coke]

I agree, the little Englander thing was and is a real phenomenon as was a similar, though smaller little Britisher view in Scotland. Nevertheless it wasn't the dominant view however much the "lefty fuds" wanted it to be. Simply labelling working class people racist and intolerant was a way by which they avoided the issues and demonstrated their lack of understanding and disengagement with everyday life.

It is and was a similar thing with the SNP and all the Nazi chat in the media and on here. Hence Brexit and close run indyref. The usual perpetrators taking a leading role DM,DE but the sentiment was in all mainstream media. You are right about Scotland's inability to deal with white immigration from the 19th century but remember we had a bigger proportional influx than rUK. Scotland has improved but ask yourself which group in our society are keenest to hold on to our 17th century British values.

 

Where I disagree is with your claim that these backward people are anti English nationalists. In my experience they tend to be very stupid, very old and Rangers supporters.

All fair enough Doug.

I'm not so sure about the old rangers supporters though, I know plenty younger ones and their views aren't a lot different from what probably their fathers and grandfathers were.

[aussieh]

In what way?

Are you Scottish?

[Boris]

It's a turn of phrase smart arse. You knew that though.

 

It's hard to know what anything is these days, tbh.

 

And if it is a turn of phrase, it's not a very good one.

 

[jack D and coke]

Are you Scottish?

Is there anyway to prove it over a football forum? What is Scottish anyway? Anti English? White? Explain exactly....

[aussieh]

Is there anyway to prove it over a football forum? What is Scottish anyway? Anti English? White? Explain exactly....

Easy the day, jack

[jack D and coke]

Easy the day, jack

ya twat

[emoji1]

[Space Mackerel]

Yeah, all the time obviously.

 

In light of the fact immigration is probably THE discussion point in the UK at the moment, it is natural to observe your own surroundings. Curiosity, nothing more.

 

It's when I start spying on those funny looking foreign people in my street you should start getting worried..."Dear, that Mr Li has a new BMW, do you think he is one of those Triad people?"

 

 

Thanks for succinctly restating my point before it re-emerged, through the distorting brain of Mr Mackerel, as somehow "racist".

 

A similar point applies in England  to hand wringing privileged leftish liberal media commentators and remoaner demonstrators who demonise insularity and racism from their mostly white nice middle class areas and who ensure their children go to mainly white, mainly middle class schools. 

 

 

 

I think its pretty clear on this thread that the vote wasn't about the EU, the new Superstate, an EU army, Turkey joining, straight bananas etc, its was a X in a box if you don't like foreigners. 

[aussieh]

ya twat

[emoji1]

A wee question, Jack.

 

What do you think the result would be for a Federal Scotland inside the UK if put to a referendum? I'll always vote Indy, but, you know.

[jack D and coke]

A wee question, Jack.

 

What do you think the result would be for a Federal Scotland inside the UK if put to a referendum? I'll always vote Indy, but, you know.

It's hard to say mate what do I really know anyway. My personal opinion is that we would go for that and that it is the best thing for the whole uk in the long run too. One thing the brexit thing has proved is how difficult it's going to be separating all these ties and we're nowhere as near tied to Europe as we are the rUK. Federalism keeps everybody happy too I reckon.

I wouldn't say I wouldn't vote for independence in a future indyref, if it was to happen again I'd weigh it up but I do believe our best chance has been and gone. A federal UK is coming down the tracks, it might take another generation or two but it's coming.

[aussieh]

It's hard to say mate what do I really know anyway. My personal opinion is that we would go for that and that it is the best thing for the whole uk in the long run too. One thing the brexit thing has proved is how difficult it's going to be separating all these ties and we're nowhere as near tied to Europe as we are the rUK. Federalism keeps everybody happy too I reckon.

I wouldn't say I wouldn't vote for independence in a future indyref, if it was to happen again I'd weigh it up but I do believe our best chance has been and gone. A federal UK is coming down the tracks, it might take another generation or two but it's coming.

As the stones said, " You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometime, you may find, you get what you need".

 

 

 

Sorry if I've misquoted.

[aussieh]

It's hard to say mate what do I really know anyway. My personal opinion is that we would go for that and that it is the best thing for the whole uk in the long run too. One thing the brexit thing has proved is how difficult it's going to be separating all these ties and we're nowhere as near tied to Europe as we are the rUK. Federalism keeps everybody happy too I reckon.

I wouldn't say I wouldn't vote for independence in a future indyref, if it was to happen again I'd weigh it up but I do believe our best chance has been and gone. A federal UK is coming down the tracks, it might take another generation or two but it's coming.

It costs 4/4.5m quid just in Salaries to send Down 59 Mps we don't need. 10 minutes of negotiations with the FM would do fine.

[Space Mackerel]

It's hard to say mate what do I really know anyway. My personal opinion is that we would go for that and that it is the best thing for the whole uk in the long run too. One thing the brexit thing has proved is how difficult it's going to be separating all these ties and we're nowhere as near tied to Europe as we are the rUK. Federalism keeps everybody happy too I reckon.

I wouldn't say I wouldn't vote for independence in a future indyref, if it was to happen again I'd weigh it up but I do believe our best chance has been and gone. A federal UK is coming down the tracks, it might take another generation or two but it's coming.

Just for the record in here, who would you vote for

 

1. A General Election

2. Scottish GE

 

?

[jack D and coke]

Just for the record in here, who would you vote for

 

1. A General Election

2. Scottish GE

 

?

At the moment nobody I doubt I'd vote.

I didn't vote in the GE or the Scottish elections. My last two votes were Yes and Leave. Previously to that I'd voted SNP.

[Space Mackerel]

At the moment nobody I doubt I'd vote.

I didn't vote in the GE or the Scottish elections. My last two votes were Yes and Leave. Previously to that I'd voted SNP.

So going by your pass voting patterns, you are in favour of a form of English Nationalism and Scoattish yin an aw too? :-/

[jack D and coke]

So going by your pass voting patterns, you are in favour of a form of English Nationalism and Scoattish yin an aw too? :-/

Well I don't really like the EU and you know this. I believe in smaller government. So it's stands to reason why I voted the way i did.

We had our Indy vote and then we had a vote to leave the EU my votes have been entirely consistent mlad[emoji1360]

[Space Mackerel]

Well I don't really like the EU and you know this. I believe in smaller government. So it's stands to reason why I voted the way i did.

We had our Indy vote and then we had a vote to leave the EU my votes have been entirely consistent mlad[emoji1360]

Well the things that really affect your life are all mostly handled under Local government. How small do you want to go?

[jack D and coke]

Well the things that really affect your life are all mostly handled under Local government. How small do you want to go?

I've been of the opinion for a while that a federal arrangement of the uk countries would be best but giving extra powers to local authorities would also be a good arrangement with certain things handled at a national level. Whether I'm right I don't know but it seems to work elsewhere. I get the feeling though these are totally loaded questions, trying to find an angle. Why no just text me anyway ya *****[emoji1]

[Space Mackerel]

I've been of the opinion for a while that a federal arrangement of the uk countries would be best but giving extra powers to local authorities would also be a good arrangement with certain things handled at a national level. Whether I'm right I don't know but it seems to work elsewhere. I get the feeling though these are totally loaded questions, trying to find an angle. Why no just text me anyway ya *****[emoji1]

I just wanted it for the record on here

 

So, to get this Federal UK you think is the correct solution, have do you intended to further this idealism by not voting and slagging off the SNP?

 

Oh, and see this ?122 billion Brexit black hole, 10% of that will be attributed to next years GERS figures I guess?

 

What's that, 12 + 15 makes 27 now.

[jack D and coke]

I just wanted it for the record on here

 

So, to get this Federal UK you think is the correct solution, have do you intended to further this idealism by not voting and slagging off the SNP?

 

Oh, and see this ?122 billion Brexit black hole, 10% of that will be attributed to next years GERS figures I guess?

 

What's that, 12 + 15 makes 27 now.

But I do vote I just never voted the last two because I saw nothing offered to make me. At least when I voted Blair or Yes or Leave I saw potential for big change. I won't vote for a bunch of grievance monkeys who imho don't really want independence. They'd shite themselves if they got it. There would be no more bogey man and they'd be right in the firing line. ATM they can make flippant remarks knowing they don't ever have to make good on them. I'm not voting for wankers like that.

[jake]

I just wanted it for the record on here

 

So, to get this Federal UK you think is the correct solution, have do you intended to further this idealism by not voting and slagging off the SNP?

 

Oh, and see this ?122 billion Brexit black hole, 10% of that will be attributed to next years GERS figures I guess?

 

What's that, 12 + 15 makes 27 now.

 

122 billion ?

Brexit black hole ?

Please stop posting lies.

[Space Mackerel]

122 billion ?

Brexit black hole ?

Please stop posting lies.

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear. More money on tick. [emoji53]

 

https://mobile.twitter.com/davieclegg/status/801471763007868930?s=04

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Francis Albert]

You really don't know your left from your liberal, do you?

Do you?. In Uk politics the Liberal Party were the predecessors of the "left" opposition to the Tories before Labour took over. In the US liberal is pretty much a synonym for left. "Liberal" socialists drove social reformation in the UK in the latter half of the twentieth century - people like Roy Jenkins and Shirley Williams were the epitome of left liberals or liberal lefties if you prefer (if not very left). You may be confusing the term with llberal economics, the belief in the supremacy of markets. That's another kettle of fish altogether.

 

While left and liberalism (in the non-economiccs sense) overlap, the left (for example Marxists, Stalinists and very Old Labour) were not always strong on "liberal" social values until the sixties.

 

Lefty liberal (or liberal lefty) seem pretty clear descriptions to me.

[JamboX2]

Do you?. In Uk politics the Liberal Party were the predecessors of the "left" opposition to the Tories before Labour took over. In the US liberal is pretty much a synonym for left. "Liberal" socialists drove social reformation in the UK in the latter half of the twentieth century - people like Roy Jenkins and Shirley Williams were the epitome of left liberals or liberal lefties if you prefer (if not very left). You may be confusing the term with llberal economics, the belief in the supremacy of markets. That's another kettle of fish altogether.

 

While left and liberalism (in the non-economiccs sense) overlap, the left (for example Marxists, Stalinists and very Old Labour) were not always strong on "liberal" social values until the sixties.

 

Lefty liberal (or liberal lefty) seem pretty clear descriptions to me.

Totally spot on.

[jack D and coke]

Do you?. In Uk politics the Liberal Party were the predecessors of the "left" opposition to the Tories before Labour took over. In the US liberal is pretty much a synonym for left. "Liberal" socialists drove social reformation in the UK in the latter half of the twentieth century - people like Roy Jenkins and Shirley Williams were the epitome of left liberals or liberal lefties if you prefer (if not very left). You may be confusing the term with llberal economics, the belief in the supremacy of markets. That's another kettle of fish altogether.

 

While left and liberalism (in the non-economiccs sense) overlap, the left (for example Marxists, Stalinists and very Old Labour) were not always strong on "liberal" social values until the sixties.

 

Lefty liberal (or liberal lefty) seem pretty clear descriptions to me.

[Space Mackerel]

Do you?. In Uk politics the Liberal Party were the predecessors of the "left" opposition to the Tories before Labour took over. In the US liberal is pretty much a synonym for left. "Liberal" socialists drove social reformation in the UK in the latter half of the twentieth century - people like Roy Jenkins and Shirley Williams were the epitome of left liberals or liberal lefties if you prefer (if not very left). You may be confusing the term with llberal economics, the belief in the supremacy of markets. That's another kettle of fish altogether.

 

While left and liberalism (in the non-economiccs sense) overlap, the left (for example Marxists, Stalinists and very Old Labour) were not always strong on "liberal" social values until the sixties.

 

Lefty liberal (or liberal lefty) seem pretty clear descriptions to me.

That's a lot of Liberal and lefty mixed up together in sentences and paragraphs. A wee bit Labour too for good measure. No SNP which is a good thing as we like to think ahead, to the future, rather than hark back at the SDLP and it's short existence.

[JamboX2]

That's a lot of Liberal and lefty mixed up together in sentences and paragraphs. A wee bit Labour too for good measure. No SNP which is a good thing as we like to think ahead, to the future, rather than hark back at the SDLP and it's short existence.

But the SNP are liberal on the economy, left-liberal on welfare and centrist on society.

 

They fit his narrative.

 

And it's SDP. The SDLP are still going strong because they are a Northern Irish party.

[Space Mackerel]

But the SNP are liberal on the economy, left-liberal on welfare and centrist on society.

 

They fit his narrative.

 

And it's SDP. The SDLP are still going strong because they are a Northern Irish party.

Does that mean FA should sign up to Sturgeons Barmy Army like me then?

 

Apologies for the SDP thing, they did disband many years ago.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[jake]

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear. More money on tick. [emoji53]

 

https://mobile.twitter.com/davieclegg/status/801471763007868930?s=04

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

And that link means exactly what ?

[Space Mackerel]

And that link means exactly what ?

What that link means is that the Divided Kingdom is living outside its means.

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[JamboX2]

Does that mean FA should sign up to Sturgeons Barmy Army like me then?

 

Apologies for the SDP thing, they did disband many years ago.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

If he doesn't agree with independence then no.

 

What you're missing is that there is a lot of grey here. It's not all black and white.

[Space Mackerel]

If he doesn't agree with independence then no.

 

What you're missing is that there is a lot of grey here. It's not all black and white.

I thought he lives in London anyway? Seems to be be a lot of ex pats on here who have buggered off abroad or down South and like to dictate what happens now back in Scotland. Irony much?

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[deesidejambo]

I thought he lives in London anyway? Seems to be be a lot of ex pats on here who have buggered off abroad or down South and like to dictate what happens now back in Scotland. Irony much?

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Nobody is dictating anything. They, like you, are simply giving their views on a football forum. You of course want them silenced because they are making you look silly.

[Space Mackerel]

Nobody is dictating anything. They, like you, are simply giving their views on a football forum. You of course want them silenced because they are making you look silly.

No I don't want anyone silenced. I quite like the snipes from jakey and various other people. I just don't get why people on here get involved in a rammy when they don't live in Scotland.

 

Anyway, looks like Tony Blair is back to knock some sense into the Red Tories down South. Another referendum coming?

 

Brexit doesn't look like it's going to happen anytime soon, if at all.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[aussieh]

 

Brexit doesn't look like it's going to happen anytime soon, if at all.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Pointless having an Indyref2, as they'd only renege on it, just like brexit. Time to just go it alone and see what happens. Feck Wm, we'll decide who we do business with.

 

Just go for it.

[deesidejambo]

Pointless having an Indyref2, as they'd only renege on it, just like brexit. Time to just go it alone and see what happens. Feck Wm, we'll decide who we do business with.

 

Just go for it.

Pointless having an Indyref2 because you will get humped again.

 

Good luck with your UDI!!!       

[Nookie Bear]

Nobody is dictating anything. They, like you, are simply giving their views on a football forum. You of course want them silenced because they are making you look silly.

 

Says it all, doesn't it. Space Mac thinks he is engaging in politics and sees himself as a soap box orator whereas all he is really doing is providing a mildly amusing distraction from work.

 

No doubt fills his Facebook feed with memes and hashtags, then sleeps soundly knowing he has "done his bit".

[Boris]

Do you?. In Uk politics the Liberal Party were the predecessors of the "left" opposition to the Tories before Labour took over. In the US liberal is pretty much a synonym for left. "Liberal" socialists drove social reformation in the UK in the latter half of the twentieth century - people like Roy Jenkins and Shirley Williams were the epitome of left liberals or liberal lefties if you prefer (if not very left). You may be confusing the term with llberal economics, the belief in the supremacy of markets. That's another kettle of fish altogether.

 

While left and liberalism (in the non-economiccs sense) overlap, the left (for example Marxists, Stalinists and very Old Labour) were not always strong on "liberal" social values until the sixties.

 

Lefty liberal (or liberal lefty) seem pretty clear descriptions to me.

 

So you agree that the left is not liberal?

 

I believe the phrase used was "the left", therefore your comments regards lefty liberals, while meritorious, are irrelevant.  Liberals will have a left and a right, hence why your explaination of "lefty liberals" is valid.

 

But to confuse "the left" and it's perspective and equate it to a "liberal" view, be that on economics or immigration or whatever, is wrong.

And this is in part, imo, why the left suffers electroally because it can't distinguish itself properly, or isn't allowed to.

 

Labour is seen as being "of the left".  It isn't.  It is, currently, on the left wing of liberalism, as you admit above.

 

So, to go back to the original point, to talk of "the left" and to talk of "liberal" as the same thing is, imo, incorrect.  A point you agree with me on, given your quotation above.

[Boris]

 

See my response.

 

[The Real Maroonblood]

No I don't want anyone silenced. I quite like the snipes from jakey and various other people. I just don't get why people on here get involved in a rammy when they don't live in Scotland.

Anyway, looks like Tony Blair is back to knock some sense into the Red Tories down South. Another referendum coming?

Brexit doesn't look like it's going to happen anytime soon, if at all.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

The alleged war criminal getting involved.

A s*****g.

[aussieh]

Pointless having an Indyref2 because you will get humped again.

 

Good luck with your UDI!!!

Aye right, but your assimilation is already complete, Gin and Mrs.

[aussieh]

Pointless having an Indyref2 because you will get humped again.

 

Good luck with your UDI!!!

Aye right, but your assimilation is already complete, Gin and Mrs.

[deesidejambo]

Aye right, but your assimilation is already complete, Gin and Mrs.

Interestingly I only drink Edinburgh Gin.  Scoaaaatish.     Am I OK now?

[aussieh]

Interestingly I only drink Edinburgh Gin. Scoaaaatish. Am I OK now?

Scottish as Whiskey.