Brexit?

[Daydream Believer]

You really think daft racist Doris from Barnsley and her pals are going to de-rail the global capitalists, World banks and 28 of the most developed nations on Earths plans?

 

I'm not sure how much help it is getting bogged down in the racist chat. 

 

Rather than the motives for voting, the important thing now is to work out what people actually thought they were getting.

 

I know a guy who voted to leave because he's a tradesman and since there were more people in his industry in the UK, obviously he was affected by the prices he could charge. That's understandable from a personal point of view and he's no racist. Now he said to me numerous times during the debate that we'd still have access to the free market. He couldn't be convinced otherwise.

 

One way or another, I doubt he's going to get what he thought he was getting so the question is - How would he have voted if he actually knew what deal we were going to end up with?

 

The only deal we could guarantee was walking away completely, and that should have been the basis for the referendum question and the whole campaign.

[Space Mackerel]

I'm not sure how much help it is getting bogged down in the racist chat.

 

Rather than the motives for voting, the important thing now is to work out what people actually thought they were getting.

 

I know a guy who voted to leave because he's a tradesman and since there were more people in his industry in the UK, obviously he was affected by the prices he could charge. That's understandable from a personal point of view and he's no racist. Now he said to me numerous times during the debate that we'd still have access to the free market. He couldn't be convinced otherwise.

 

One way or another, I doubt he's going to get what he thought he was getting so the question is - How would he have voted if he actually knew what deal we were going to end up with?

 

The only deal we could guarantee was walking away completely, and that should have been the basis for the referendum question and the whole campaign.

Agreed the racist argument has been done to death now.

 

It was told though time and time again pre referendum that there would be no single market, no freedom of movement though. The other EU countries have stated this post referendum.

 

If anything, we will end up with an extremely soft Brexit, paying in to the EU with no voice, much like Norway and Switzerland do now.

 

 

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[Daydream Believer]

Agreed the racist argument has been done to death now.

 

It was told though time and time again pre referendum that there would be no single market, no freedom of movement though. The other EU countries have stated this post referendum.

 

If anything, we will end up with an extremely soft Brexit, paying in to the EU with no voice, much like Norway and Switzerland do now.

 

 

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Yes but Boris continued to tell us that we would have a points based imigration system and would still negotiate access to the single market. 

 

You're right that it was clear to lots of us that that would not be the case, but there are lots of people who only get their news from the daily mail. Those people were lied to and voted on the basis of those lies.

[The Mighty Thor]

May constantly saying that immigration is her "red line" in any negotiations.

The EU saying that open borders are a non-negotiable term of access to the single market.

 

But

 

UK Govt promising Nissan that access to the single market won't affect them.

 

Hmmmmmm

It's a red line issue unless you're an Indian businessman then it's very much a green line, front of the queue, VIP issue.

There must be an arms trade deal about to be back doored, just yo show how much clout an EU free UK really has on the world stage.

 

[Francis Albert]

Agreed the racist argument has been done to death now.

 

It was told though time and time again pre referendum that there would be no single market, no freedom of movement though. The other EU countries have stated this post referendum.

 

If anything, we will end up with an extremely soft Brexit, paying in to the EU with no voice, much like Norway and Switzerland do now.

 

 

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Great that we can move beyond the "17.4m racists" argument after 5 months.

 

I se from other posts that we have some way to go before the "but they didn't know what they were voting for" argument subsides. As you say the consequences of a Leave vote were clearly set out. Some of the Leave voters may not have believed them. But then some of the Remain voters may have believed that a Leave vote would result in an immediate  major austerity budget and major economic recession.

 

Whether we like it or not Leave won and Remain (aka Soft Brexit) lost.

[Francis Albert]

Yes but Boris continued to tell us that we would have a points based imigration system and would still negotiate access to the single market. 

 

You're right that it was clear to lots of us that that would not be the case, but there are lots of people who only get their news from the daily mail. Those people were lied to and voted on the basis of those lies.

And lots of people who voted Remain got their news from other sources which said a Leave vote would result in an immediate austerity budget and economic recession.

 

We might still get more controlled immigration and some access to the EU market.

 

But not if our negotiators are publicly committed to bottom lines and must haves determined by parliament in advance of negotiations

[aussieh]

Of course they didn't. All but 0.0000000001% of them were thick racists whose votes should be ignored.

Heard it

[Francis Albert]

If and when the SNP win an Indy referendum will Nicola be happy if English MP's vote to block independence unless they get a say on the terms on which independence is granted?

[jack D and coke]

If and when the SNP win an Indy referendum will Nicola be happy if English MP's vote to block independence unless they get a say on the terms on which independence is granted?

The irony appears to be lost on some Indy and SNP voters in particular in this case.

[Boris]

If and when the SNP win an Indy referendum will Nicola be happy if English MP's vote to block independence unless they get a say on the terms on which independence is granted?

 

 

The irony appears to be lost on some Indy and SNP voters in particular in this case.

 

No, it is a silly point and not treating like for like.

 

Like for like would be the EU not allowing Brexit.

[Ibrahim Tall]

The irony appears to be lost on some Indy and SNP voters in particular in this case.

 

Situation isn't comparable so it isn't ironic at all. The Brexit 'version' of that scenario would be the remaining EU countries voting to block Brexit.

Ironic would be eg Shetland kicking up a fuss if it voted No and the rest of the country voted for independence and it being dismissed.

[aussieh]

The irony appears to be lost on some Indy and SNP voters in particular in this case.

[Space Mackerel]

Trade figures for U.K. Going down the swanny despite the low pound.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/nov/09/uk-trade-deficit-widens-september-exports-fall-pound-drop

[Francis Albert]

Trade figures for U.K. Going down the swanny despite the low pound.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/nov/09/uk-trade-deficit-widens-september-exports-fall-pound-drop

"Going down the swanny"? The trade gap in the third quarter improved over the second quarter.

 

The Guardian since the Brexit vote has consistently highlighted every bad bit of economic news while burying any good news.

[jake]

"Going down the swanny"? The trade gap in the third quarter improved over the second quarter.

 

The Guardian since the Brexit vote has consistently highlighted every bad bit of economic news while burying any good news.

 

Its actually an indication of the level the left has lost its way

 

If you can stretch your imagination to associating the guardian with the left.

It along with many in left of centre party's.

Labour libdem snp resent working peoples views and indeed their voters rights.

They and their actions are exactly why im glad i voted brexit.

 

It amazes me that our first minister a woman who joined politics for scottish independence would try any trick to scupper a vote by people to gain there own.

And its fundamentally the same .

[Space Mackerel]

"Going down the swanny"? The trade gap in the third quarter improved over the second quarter.The Guardian since the Brexit vote has consistently highlighted every bad bit of economic news while burying any good news.

What is the good news?

 

Getting China to fund/build our nuclear power stations and homes in the North of England?

[Space Mackerel]

Its actually an indication of the level the left has lost its way

If you can stretch your imagination to associating the guardian with the left.

It along with many in left of centre party's.

Labour libdem snp resent working peoples views and indeed their voters rights.

They and their actions are exactly why im glad i voted brexit.

It amazes me that our first minister a woman who joined politics for scottish independence would try any trick to scupper a vote by people to gain there own.

And its fundamentally the same .

Well done to the most dis-jointed post ever on here.

[Francis Albert]

What is the good news?

 

Getting China to fund/build our nuclear power stations and homes in the North of England?

Well on topic - the fact as I said that the trade gap has actually improved since the Brexit vote, not "gone down the swanny". The fact that since the Brexit vote the UK economy has been growing faster than any OECD country. Nissan's commitment to investing in the biggest car plant in Europe in Sunderland.

[Francis Albert]

Well done to the most dis-jointed post ever on here.

Made perfect sense to me. Do you have a problem understanding people who disagree with you? Seems so.

[aussieh]

Its actually an indication of the level the left has lost its way

 

If you can stretch your imagination to associating the guardian with the left.

It along with many in left of centre party's.

Labour libdem snp resent working peoples views and indeed their voters rights.

They and their actions are exactly why im glad i voted brexit.

 

It amazes me that our first minister a woman who joined politics for scottish independence would try any trick to scupper a vote by people to gain there own.

And its fundamentally the same .

Please explain the FM and the SNP resenting working peoples views and voting rights. Scotland voted Remain , with a fair few no voters in the count. (The same amount of SNP/yes voters who voted leave) Have they to be ignored?, auch well England voted leave, so we better dae as we're telt.

 

 

Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa, you'll be wanting that mob to win the night anaw.

[Seymour M Hersh]

I see wee nippy has said the American voters decision must be respected. It's a great pity, but not a surprise,  she's is completely unable or unwilling to accept the decision of the people of her own country (Great Britain) with regards to two recent referenda.

[Boris]

I see wee nippy has said the American voters decision must be respected. It's a great pity, but not a surprise,  she's is completely unable or unwilling to accept the decision of the people of her own country (Great Britain) with regards to two recent referenda.

 

Well, at the least the American electorate get to vote on the subject again in four years time...

 

Regards the EU referendum, I'm sure Sturgeon's position would be that Scotland's electorate overwhelmingly voted to Remain, hence her stance.

 

Regards another indy ref, she set her stall out - if material change then she would look at another referendum as an option.  As far as I am aware, we aren't having another indy ref, but this may happen. 

 

Sounds like normal politics to me.

[i8hibsh]

Well, at the least the American electorate get to vote on the subject again in four years time...

 

Regards the EU referendum, I'm sure Sturgeon's position would be that Scotland's electorate overwhelmingly voted to Remain, hence her stance.

 

Regards another indy ref, she set her stall out - if material change then she would look at another referendum as an option.  As far as I am aware, we aren't having another indy ref, but this may happen. 

 

Sounds like normal politics to me.

 

 

Q. When we voted in the Scottish Referendum was there at all, anywhere in the ballot paper something about leaving the EU? Was there a caveat of any sort?

 

A. No

 

The question and please correct me if I am mistaken was do you wish Scotland to be Independent.

 

Now the Scottish electorate overwhelmingly voted to remain as part of the UK.  This means that from that moment on we vote as part of a United Kingdon set up.  We were then given a second referendum as part of the UK that we overwhelmingly voted to be part of,  asking:

 

Q. Do you wish to remain part of the EU. 

 

Again we as an electorate voted to leave.

 

As I said earlier in the Scottish ref, there were no caveats of any sort ? unless I was given a different ballot paper to you. Simple questions Boris, that we all answered unequivocally.

 

Please please please start respecting it.

[Boris]

Q. When we voted in the Scottish Referendum was there at all, anywhere in the ballot paper something about leaving the EU? Was there a caveat of any sort?

 

A. No

 

The question and please correct me if I am mistaken was do you wish Scotland to be Independent.

 

Now the Scottish electorate overwhelmingly voted to remain as part of the UK.  This means that from that moment on we vote as part of a United Kingdon set up.  We were then given a second referendum as part of the UK that we overwhelmingly voted to be part of,  asking:

 

Q. Do you wish to remain part of the EU. 

 

Again we as an electorate voted to leave.

 

As I said earlier in the Scottish ref, there were no caveats of any sort ? unless I was given a different ballot paper to you. Simple questions Boris, that we all answered unequivocally.

 

Please please please start respecting it.

 

Oh, I respect the results, they are what they are.  

 

That doesn't mean you can't campaign for changes latterly if you want to though.

[Francis Albert]

I see wee nippy has said the American voters decision must be respected. It's a great pity, but not a surprise,  she's is completely unable or unwilling to accept the decision of the people of her own country (Great Britain) with regards to two recent referenda.

And imagine the sleepless night Donald Trump must have had worrying about whether Nicola would respect the result.

 

Her delusions of grandeur grow. Like when after Brexit she flew around Europe telling European leaders "don't worry, Scotland wants to stay, we still love you" only to be politely told that it was the UK which was the EU member and she had no status in the matter. International relations and foreign policy and treaties are not devolved matters. Why does she not focus on devolved matters? Why not use powers she has, for example to raise income tax to spend more money on say the NHS? No, that might cost her some votes.

[i8hibsh]

Oh, I respect the results, they are what they are.  

 

That doesn't mean you can't campaign for changes latterly if you want to though.

 

 

Campaign for what though? As if I don't know but 27 months ago the country spoke.

 

Of course be unhappy I would be if the outcome was the other way but to campaign means you want another crack at it. Are we supposed to have a referendum every year until you are happy with the outcome?

[Boris]

Campaign for what though? As if I don't know but 27 months ago the country spoke.

 

Of course be unhappy I would be if the outcome was the other way but to campaign means you want another crack at it. Are we supposed to have a referendum every year until you are happy with the outcome?

 

But we aren't having a referendum every other year.

 

And, quite possibly, people (on both sides) may have changed their minds based on the promises given in 2014 and the recent EU referendum.  

 

The SNP is a political party whose main purpose is to secure an independent Scotland.  Currently, they hold the political upper hand in Scotland and are intent on using that power.  Shabby opposition isn't helping (from a non SNP perspective).

 

But as the UK immolates itself, again a perception of some, they want an alternative.  In a democracy that is a perfectly reasonable position.

 

"to campaign means you want another crack" Should all political parties stop campaigning at the end of a general election and wait until the next one?

[aussieh]

Campaign for what though? As if I don't know but 27 months ago the country spoke.

 

Of course be unhappy I would be if the outcome was the other way but to campaign means you want another crack at it. Are we supposed to have a referendum every year until you are happy with the outcome?

Scots voted for Independence, so where the feck is it?

[Don Dan]

Scots voted for Independence, so where the feck is it?

Scots voted for independence!?

[Francis Albert]

Scots voted for Independence, so where the feck is it?

When did Scots vote for independence? Strange that I missed that news.

[i8hibsh]

Scots voted for Independence, so where the feck is it?

 

 

Technically some did, you are correct. The majority never though.

[aussieh]

Technically some did, you are correct. The majority never though.

No, Brits voted No.

 

I'll give the leave voters and Trump voters one thing.

 

THEY'RE NOT SHITEBAGS.

 

Give England a vote for Independence, they'll not shite themselves.

 

 

No vote , remain vote, tells you what a bunch of shitebags we really are.

[i8hibsh]

No, Brits voted No.

 

I'll give the leave voters and Trump voters one thing.

 

THEY'RE NOT SHITEBAGS.

 

Give England a vote for Independence, they'll not shite themselves.

 

 

No vote , remain vote, tells you what a bunch of shitebags we really are.

 

 

Oh aussieh how you entertain me.

 

P.s I am Scottish and voted No. Hope this is ok with you Nats, I know you run this shop.

[Seymour M Hersh]

Oh aussieh how you entertain me.

 

P.s I am Scottish and voted No. Hope this is ok with you Nats, I know you run this shop.

 

I'm just awaiting the "outing" of the Cabinetnatz who voted leave in the EU ref. Fatty and nippy will explode.

[i8hibsh]

I'm just awaiting the "outing" of the Cabinetnatz who voted leave in the EU ref. Fatty and nippy will explode.

 

My favourite thing about the Nats is the way they all decide who is and who isn't Scottish.  

[Francis Albert]

No, Brits voted No.

 

I'll give the leave voters and Trump voters one thing.

 

THEY'RE NOT SHITEBAGS.

 

Give England a vote for Independence, they'll not shite themselves.

 

 

No vote , remain vote, tells you what a bunch of shitebags we really are.

So people with a different opinion to you are "shite bags". Congratulations on embracing the new politics in all its glory.

[i8hibsh]

So people with a different opinion to you are "shite bags". Congratulations on embracing the new politics in all its glory.

 

 

Shooosh or he will rip up your birth certificate!

[Nookie Bear]

I'm just awaiting the "outing" of the Cabinetnatz who voted leave in the EU ref. Fatty and nippy will explode.

 

Especially as their names will be on that list.

[Mac_fae_Gillie]

Well looks like Trump been US President could well aid the UKs hand in doing a deal with the EU on Brexit the back of the queue crap Obama spouted gone with mr Brexit PLUS PLUS in da house.

[Space Mackerel]

Shooosh or he will rip up your birth certificate!

Thought you lived just over the border in England?

[i8hibsh]

Thought you lived just over the border in England?

 

2002/2003 yeah

[Seymour M Hersh]

Especially as their names will be on that list.

 

I seriously doubt that (although it would be very funny) but if names come out from the McCabinet then there will be civil war.

[Seymour M Hersh]

A poem for all you remoaners out there.

 

I voted out

 

You voted in

 

Now my vote isn't important 

 

Cos you didn't win

 

(credit to a lady on twitter).

[i8hibsh]

 

A poem for all you remoaners out there.

 

I voted out

 

You voted in

 

Now my vote isn't important

 

Cos you didn't win

 

(credit to a lady on twitter).

You forgot to mention that you are a racist who hates inmigration and has an Adolf Hitler poster by your bed. Get it right.

[Space Mackerel]

You forgot to mention that you are a racist who hates inmigration and has an Adolf Hitler poster by your bed. Get it right.

Could've mentioned wee nippy too for effect.

 

Still no invoking of Article 50 though, whys that? Taking a bit of time this, almost like it's never ever going to happen.

 

 

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[i8hibsh]

Could've mentioned wee nippy too for effect.

 

Still no invoking of Article 50 though, whys that? Taking a bit of time this, almost like it's never ever going to happen.

 

 

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Good old 'Article 50'. A bunch of lefties getting their pants wet over something they had never even heard of 6 months ago. If it is not tweeting then it is not worth talking about eh?

[Space Mackerel]

Good old 'Article 50'. A bunch of lefties getting their pants wet over something they had never even heard of 6 months ago. If it is not tweeting then it is not worth talking about eh?

No Article 50 and The Don going back on promises already.

Some right wing revolution.

 

 

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[i8hibsh]

No Article 50 and The Don going back on promises already.

Some right wing revolution.

 

 

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An article 50 that 5 months ago Space Mackerel had never heard of. That one?

[Space Mackerel]

An article 50 that 5 months ago Space Mackerel had never heard of. That one?

Ever get the feeling you've been led up the garden path slightly?

 

 

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[i8hibsh]

Ever get the feeling you've been led up the garden path slightly?

 

 

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Nope.

 

Ever get the feeling that every word you say is not your own?

 

Ever get the feeling that you can't take a piss unless someone has hashtagged #takeapiss?