Brexit?

[jake]

I think wee jakey is sleeping it off today

 

Go and stop being such a tit.

 

Please.

[Space Mackerel]

Go and stop being such a tit.

Please.

Yay! He's up! Who done the bail money? Did you tap Phillip Green?

 

So these Scottish racists? Where's the proof?

[Space Mackerel]

I actually said in my post that the numbers were miniscule.

And i can provide links which although cannot ascertain they were english it was believed they were.

Im sure you realise my response was to the meme man makeral.

He alludes to the english being more racist and pointed to the rise in these types of crimez because of brexit.

He calls them little englanders and generalises about them.

I merely pointed out that the same happened in scotland and we are definitely not a nation of angels.

But you have leapt in because your nationalist pride was hurt.

Just because i voted for independence doesnt mean i have to talk shit.

Makeral take note.

List of reasons leaving EU you promised too :-D

[jake]

List of reasons leaving EU you promised too :-D

 

Think ive stated why i want out.

To be honest they are very similar to the reasons i voted yes.

 

Tell me again why you think its a good idea to leave the union we have with london but wish to remain in a union with far less voting power.

Where national referendums are ignored.

[jake]

Yay! He's up! Who done the bail money? Did you tap Phillip Green?

 

So these Scottish racists? Where's the proof?

 

Are you saying theres no icidents of race crime against english people by scots.

Are you saying theres no evidence of racism in scotland.

No sectarianism.

 

 

Its easy to find makeral .

 

Scotland is no doubt a mostly decent country .

Scotland should manage our own economy and be responsible for our own problems.

 

Independence will be fake in the EU.

[Space Mackerel]

" A union we have with London"

 

I rest my case.

 

Why didn't you Paris or Berlin?

[jake]

Tbh makeral you're very annoying but sometimes in amongst all the nonsense you have come out with poignant posts.

 

But on the whole you're nippy.

[Space Mackerel]

Tbh makeral you're very annoying but sometimes in amongst all the nonsense you have come out with poignant posts.

But on the whole you're nippy.

It's because I'm older and wiser. Been around the block a bit.

 

So this list...spit it out ta.

[coconut doug]

I actually said in my post that the numbers were miniscule.

And i can provide links which although cannot ascertain they were english it was believed they were.

 

Im sure you realise my response was to the meme man makeral.

He alludes to the english being more racist and pointed to the rise in these types of crimez because of brexit.

 

He calls them little englanders and generalises about them.

 

I merely pointed out that the same happened in scotland and we are definitely not a nation of angels.

 

But you have leapt in because your nationalist pride was hurt.

 

Just because i voted for independence doesnt mean i have to talk shit.

 

Makeral take note.

If the numbers are miniscule and by inference insignificant why use them. The numbers in England are not miniscule. there has been a 49% rise in racist attacks since Brexit.

 

If you have no means of substantiating your claim and you believe the numbers relating to anti- English hate crime were miniscule, why allege It? Are you just trying to do Scots down?

 

SM may use the term little Englander but it is a well understood notion. He is, as has been pointed out to you on numerous occasions not anti-English. Perhaps defining a little Englander as a UKIP supporter might aid clarity. UkIP frequently getting over 20% in E+W rarely getting 2% in Scotland.

 

Nobody has claimed that Scotland is a nation of angels. Just that we have fewer Tories, Ukippers and racists than England. That is statistically verifiable.

 

My nationalist pride is not hurt. I am not a nationalist.

[jake]

If the numbers are miniscule and by inference insignificant why use them. The numbers in England are not miniscule. there has been a 49% rise in racist attacks since Brexit.

 

If you have no means of substantiating your claim and you believe the numbers relating to anti- English hate crime were miniscule, why allege It? Are you just trying to do Scots down?

 

SM may use the term little Englander but it is a well understood notion. He is, as has been pointed out to you on numerous occasions not anti-English. Perhaps defining a little Englander as a UKIP supporter might aid clarity. UkIP frequently getting over 20% in E+W rarely getting 2% in Scotland.

 

Nobody has claimed that Scotland is a nation of angels. Just that we have fewer Tories, Ukippers and racists than England. That is statistically verifiable.

 

My nationalist pride is not hurt. I am not a nationalist.

 

I already explained why i used the figures i did.

As for the spike in tacist incidents in england after brexit they were reported via internet and were not verified.

Can you show a link to support this 49% rise?

 

Why would i do the scots down?

 

Heard that chat before the self loathing.

And as for your assertion that Scotland has fewer racists you might want to check the stats regarding our very own problem of religious sectarianism.

 

As for the term little englander and ukip voter ratio the same could be levelled at scots voting for their nationalist party.

 

It amazes me that nationalism in England is viewed as combat 18 and nationalism in Scotland is so right on.

 

There are racist bigots in all countries.

And its a lot worse and will become more so in the wonderful land of the EU.

 

As for your statement on not being a nationalist i find that difficult.

I may be mistaken but your posts dont teflect that.

[jake]

It's because I'm older and wiser. Been around the block a bit.

 

So this list...spit it out ta.

 

Makeral you posted a picture of your work troosers whilst kidding on you ran a business.

 

 

 

 

So older and wiser.

[Rocco_Jambo]

If the numbers are miniscule and by inference insignificant why use them. The numbers in England are not miniscule. there has been a 49% rise in racist attacks since Brexit.

 

If you have no means of substantiating your claim and you believe the numbers relating to anti- English hate crime were miniscule, why allege It? Are you just trying to do Scots down?

 

SM may use the term little Englander but it is a well understood notion. He is, as has been pointed out to you on numerous occasions not anti-English. Perhaps defining a little Englander as a UKIP supporter might aid clarity. UkIP frequently getting over 20% in E+W rarely getting 2% in Scotland.

 

Nobody has claimed that Scotland is a nation of angels. Just that we have fewer Tories, Ukippers and racists than England. That is statistically verifiable.

 

My nationalist pride is not hurt. I am not a nationalist.

Would be interested to see a link as well to the 49% rise in racist attacks. Highly doubt that is the case.

[coconut doug]

Would be interested to see a link as well to the 49% rise in racist attacks. Highly doubt that is the case.

Covered in all newspapers and quoted directly from govt/police statistics. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/brexit-hate-crime-racism-eu-referendum-poland-islam-more-in-common-a7231836.html

 

seems such crimes are much more prevalent in areas where there was a strong Leave vote. Who'd have thought it?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/brexit-hate-crime-racism-immigration-eu-referendum-result-what-it-means-eurospectic-areas-a7165056.html

[cannonfoda]

.

[coconut doug]

I already explained why i used the figures i did.

As for the spike in tacist incidents in england after brexit they were reported via internet and were not verified.

Can you show a link to support this 49% rise?

 

Why would i do the scots down?

 

Heard that chat before the self loathing.

And as for your assertion that Scotland has fewer racists you might want to check the stats regarding our very own problem of religious sectarianism.

 

As for the term little englander and ukip voter ratio the same could be levelled at scots voting for their nationalist party.

 

It amazes me that nationalism in England is viewed as combat 18 and nationalism in Scotland is so right on.

 

There are racist bigots in all countries.

And its a lot worse and will become more so in the wonderful land of the EU.

 

As for your statement on not being a nationalist i find that difficult.

I may be mistaken but your posts dont teflect that.

I have no idea why you used those figures especially as they contradict the point you are trying to make. Figures I quote are not internet nonsense they are Home office/ Police official figures. Still waiting for you to show us some of your extensive sources proving anti-English hate crime in Scotland btw.

 

The SNP have a miniscule amount of common ground with UKIP and absolutely nothing in common with Combat 18.

 

There are racist bigots in all countries it's just that the statistics show they are less prevalent in Scotland than E+W. Really simple point- I don't know why you can't get it.

 

Despite it's many faults I do not believe the EU will make racial problems worse.

[Nookie Bear]

They've just got to learn to except everyone else now:-0)

And if Scotland saw the same level of immigration as England? How would that go down?

[Space Mackerel]

Makeral you posted a picture of your work troosers whilst kidding on you ran a business.

So older and wiser.

List please jakey, never mind the trousers, they've been in the wash and on the morn.

[Rocco_Jambo]

Covered in all newspapers and quoted directly from govt/police statistics. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/brexit-hate-crime-racism-eu-referendum-poland-islam-more-in-common-a7231836.html

 

seems such crimes are much more prevalent in areas where there was a strong Leave vote. Who'd have thought it?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/brexit-hate-crime-racism-immigration-eu-referendum-result-what-it-means-eurospectic-areas-a7165056.html

That's not what was reported in all national news papers and that's not what your link says.

 

You said there has been "a 49% rise in racist attacks". The reality is, and what has been reported is, there has been a 49% rise in the reporting of hate crime incidents.

 

What you have done is Daily Mailesque (or Guirdianesque) in exaggerating these statistics and leaping to a conclusion which suits your particular agenda.

 

Hate crime includes a number of other offences and not just racial crimes. It's a bit like drawing a conclusion that rape crime is up because there is an increase in sexual offences.

 

To use the simple reporting of an offence as evidence of a racist attack without even knowing whether these incidents are actually even considered as hate crimes by police, whether they are being investigated as such, whether anybody has been arrested, prosecuted or convicted is a very big leap. Nigel Farage was reported for a racist hate crime. There has been no investigation, arrest or charge or prosecution presumably because the report of his conduct for committing a hate crime is not considered as constituting a criminal offence. How many more of these incidents are the same?

 

Regardless of your attempt to try and treat hate crimes as the same as racist crimes until there is evidence of an increase in convictions of racist crimes or even hate crimes these statistics are largely irrelevant as evidence of an increase in "racist attacks" you refer to and only indicative that there has been a 49% increase in people reporting hate crimes.

 

Given that an offence will be recorded as a hate crime merely because the reporter believes it was motivated by them belonging to a specific group of person rather than the circumstances and given the current climate of millions of people's motivation for choosing to leave the EU being considered to be racially motivated by many there's a good chance there may be other factors causing this increase in reported hate crimes.

 

To use these mere statistics as proof of an increase in racist attacks is a massive leap.

 

If there is an increase in convictions of racist hate crimes then that will be a different matter.

[Space Mackerel]

That's not what was reported in all national news papers and that's not what your link says.

You said there has been "a 49% rise in racist attacks". The reality is, and what has been reported is, there has been a 49% rise in the reporting of hate crime incidents.

What you have done is Daily Mailesque (or Guirdianesque) in exaggerating these statistics and leaping to a conclusion which suits your particular agenda.

Hate crime includes a number of other offences and not just racial crimes. It's a bit like drawing a conclusion that rape crime is up because there is an increase in sexual offences.

To use the simple reporting of an offence as evidence of a racist attack without even knowing whether these incidents are actually even considered as hate crimes by police, whether they are being investigated as such, whether anybody has been arrested, prosecuted or convicted is a very big leap. Nigel Farage was reported for a racist hate crime. There has been no investigation, arrest or charge or prosecution presumably because the report of his conduct for committing a hate crime is not considered as constituting a criminal offence. How many more of these incidents are the same?

Regardless of your attempt to try and treat hate crimes as the same as racist crimes until there is evidence of an increase in convictions of racist crimes or even hate crimes these statistics are largely irrelevant as evidence of an increase in "racist attacks" you refer to and only indicative that there has been a 49% increase in people reporting hate crimes.

Given that an offence will be recorded as a hate crime merely because the reporter believes it was motivated by them belonging to a specific group of person rather than the circumstances and given the current climate of millions of people's motivation for choosing to leave the EU being considered to be racially motivated by many there's a good chance there may be other factors causing this increase in reported hate crimes.

To use these mere statistics as proof of an increase in racist attacks is a massive leap.

If there is an increase in convictions of racist hate crimes then that will be a different matter.

****s sakes, in this day and age as well.

[Rocco_Jambo]

****s sakes, in this day and age as well.

I and most people I'd imagine would consider it as pretty important to draw the proper conclusion from statistics or not to jump to the conclusion you desire until there is support for it regardless of the day or age.

[jake]

I have no idea why you used those figures especially as they contradict the point you are trying to make. Figures I quote are not internet nonsense they are Home office/ Police official figures. Still waiting for you to show us some of your extensive sources proving anti-English hate crime in Scotland btw.

 

The SNP have a miniscule amount of common ground with UKIP and absolutely nothing in common with Combat 18.

 

There are racist bigots in all countries it's just that the statistics show they are less prevalent in Scotland than E+W. Really simple point- I don't know why you can't get it.

 

Despite it's many faults I do not believe the EU will make racial problems worse.

 

I already explained why i used those figures.

Actually further investigation into your figures cannot be substanciated.

But i wont go all conspiracy.

Waiting to show you anti english hate crime??????

 

 

I live in Scotland i hear anti english stuff a lot.

Do you go out at all??

 

The Snp are a one policy party who although profess to be a party of Scotland have done nothing whilst holding considerable powers to ...well anything.

They didnt used to be left of centre but moved in that direction because it suits their reason for existing.

So yes they have similarities.

 

 

 

 

Do you actually live in Scotland.

You aware of the ingrained mindset that is just below the national phsyce.

 

Im going to look into the figures and stuff you have posted.

 

The racial tensions in europe make englands a playpark.

[coconut doug]

That's not what was reported in all national news papers and that's not what your link says.

 

You said there has been "a 49% rise in racist attacks". The reality is, and what has been reported is, there has been a 49% rise in the reporting of hate crime incidents.

 

What you have done is Daily Mailesque (or Guirdianesque) in exaggerating these statistics and leaping to a conclusion which suits your particular agenda.

 

Hate crime includes a number of other offences and not just racial crimes. It's a bit like drawing a conclusion that rape crime is up because there is an increase in sexual offences.

 

To use the simple reporting of an offence as evidence of a racist attack without even knowing whether these incidents are actually even considered as hate crimes by police, whether they are being investigated as such, whether anybody has been arrested, prosecuted or convicted is a very big leap. Nigel Farage was reported for a racist hate crime. There has been no investigation, arrest or charge or prosecution presumably because the report of his conduct for committing a hate crime is not considered as constituting a criminal offence. How many more of these incidents are the same?

 

Regardless of your attempt to try and treat hate crimes as the same as racist crimes until there is evidence of an increase in convictions of racist crimes or even hate crimes these statistics are largely irrelevant as evidence of an increase in "racist attacks" you refer to and only indicative that there has been a 49% increase in people reporting hate crimes.

 

Given that an offence will be recorded as a hate crime merely because the reporter believes it was motivated by them belonging to a specific group of person rather than the circumstances and given the current climate of millions of people's motivation for choosing to leave the EU being considered to be racially motivated by many there's a good chance there may be other factors causing this increase in reported hate crimes.

 

To use these mere statistics as proof of an increase in racist attacks is a massive leap.

 

If there is an increase in convictions of racist hate crimes then that will be a different matter.

I accept that the term racist attacks implies more than what has been reported or alleged in many of the cases. Nevertheless that is the language of our press. I should have been more concise.  The BBC reports http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-37278903 that there is a 60% increase in hate crime and a similar increase in racially motivated hate crime in Wales That is the term I should have used.

 

This is related to post referendum incidents so I think it is unlikely that there has been a significant increase in other forms of hate crime. This article linked above and many others support that view.

 

Whether these incidents are investigated or not seems to me to be irrelevant as I imagine the compilation of the statistics will be done on the same basis as it was before Brexit.

[jake]

I accept that the term racist attacks implies more than what has been reported or alleged in many of the cases. Nevertheless that is the language of our press. I should have been more concise. The BBC reports http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-37278903 that there is a 60% increase in hate crime and a similar increase in racially motivated hate crime in Wales That is the term I should have used.

 

This is related to post referendum incidents so I think it is unlikely that there has been a significant increase in other forms of hate crime. This article linked above and many others support that view.

 

Whether these incidents are investigated or not seems to me to be irrelevant as I imagine the compilation of the statistics will be done on the same basis as it was before Brexit.

 

See the welsh figures did it mention white british?

[Rocco_Jambo]

I accept that the term racist attacks implies more than what has been reported or alleged in many of the cases. Nevertheless that is the language of our press. I should have been more concise. The BBC reports http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-37278903 that there is a 60% increase in hate crime and a similar increase in racially motivated hate crime in Wales That is the term I should have used.

 

This is related to post referendum incidents so I think it is unlikely that there has been a significant increase in other forms of hate crime. This article linked above and many others support that view.

 

Whether these incidents are investigated or not seems to me to be irrelevant as I imagine the compilation of the statistics will be done on the same basis as it was before Brexit.

Its very relevant if the report of a crime is investigated or not because if the police consider the alleged conduct not to be a criminal offence and worthy of investigation then it means that this increase in reports is likely as a result of people simply being more likely to report non criminal conduct or non criminal racial conduct as criminal racial conduct as opposed to there actually being any increase reports considered as worthy to be investigated never mind reports resulting in a conviction.

[jake]

Its very relevant if the report of a crime is investigated or not because if the police consider the alleged conduct not to be a criminal offence and worthy of investigation then it means that this increase in reports is likely as a result of people simply being more likely to report non criminal conduct or non criminal racial conduct as criminal racial conduct as opposed to there actually being any increase reports considered as worthy to be investigated never mind reports resulting in a conviction.

 

Thats the actual fact.

[jake]

FAO of makeral.

 

I could post links to lots of reasons why membership of the EU is bad for the UK.

From capitalist think tanks respected in the world of finance or i could provide links that show international business wished uk had looser links with tbe eu.

 

I could post links to national referendums of which ive already done which have never been accepted by Eu.

 

I could post links about youth unemployment in southern europe.

I could post links about the uk and it dwindling exports to eu.

I could tell you that only 5% of uk business does so in the eu.

Yet all have to abide by the eu laws.

 

These laws will shortly include the right of multi national companies to sue any government at the taxpayers expense for laws or legislation that affect their profit.

It allows a longer period of patent for drug companiez before generic distribution.

It allows for private take over of public services.

 

It allows for freedom of movement providing you have the correct documents (oh how i laugh).

A policy to allow free movement of cheap labour.

 

 

Anyway i would break up any political power that had a say in so many peoples lifes.

Thats my real reason for wanting brexit.

[coconut doug]

Its very relevant if the report of a crime is investigated or not because if the police consider the alleged conduct not to be a criminal offence and worthy of investigation then it means that this increase in reports is likely as a result of people simply being more likely to report non criminal conduct or non criminal racial conduct as criminal racial conduct as opposed to there actually being any increase reports considered as worthy to be investigated never mind reports resulting in a conviction.

I don't understand this point. Presumably the reporting regime is the same as before Brexit and presumably the police do not report allegations that are not potentially criminal.

 

I cannot follow the logic that says people are more likely to report non criminal acts and I don't know what "non criminal racial conduct" is. These events are being recorded as racial hate crimes. This is police terminology. 

 

The chief constable at the Met thinks it's under recorded https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/sep/28/hate-crime-horrible-spike-brexit-vote-metropolitan-police and a labour M.P. thinks many are too scared to report it. https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/sep/07/hate-surged-after-eu-referendum-police-figures-show He thinks the figures are far higher than reported.

[coconut doug]

See the welsh figures did it mention white british?

No but that does not mean there wasn't any. How are you getting on finding proof of anti-English racism in Scotland?

[jake]

No but that does not mean there wasn't any. How are you getting on finding proof of anti-English racism in Scotland?

 

Wouldn't post links to easily found articles on it because its about as reliable as your stats.

 

But my proof to you is this.

Do you live in Scotland and how much are you aware of anti english sentiment?

[coconut doug]

I already explained why i used those figures.

Actually further investigation into your figures cannot be substanciated.

But i wont go all conspiracy.

Waiting to show you anti english hate crime??????

 

 

I live in Scotland i hear anti english stuff a lot.

Do you go out at all??

 

The Snp are a one policy party who although profess to be a party of Scotland have done nothing whilst holding considerable powers to ...well anything.

They didnt used to be left of centre but moved in that direction because it suits their reason for existing.

So yes they have similarities.

 

 

 

 

Do you actually live in Scotland.

You aware of the ingrained mindset that is just below the national phsyce.

 

Im going to look into the figures and stuff you have posted.

 

The racial tensions in europe make englands a playpark.

I still don't know why you used those figures.

 

Further investigation cannot be substantiated - Why not?

 

I live in Scotland. I go out. I speak to English people and people who are members of the SNP. None of them make anti -English comments and none have spoken of being racially abused. In fact if I spoke in such terms in the pub it would not be well received.

 

The SNP have policies in all areas of government and it is a matter of opinion as to their performance. My view is that they have been very timid and have often taken the line of least resistance. Generally they have projected Scotland's case well particularly in the days after the Brexit vote where Nicola and others assured our EU residents that they remained welcome.

 

"The racial tensions in Europe make England's a playpark"  You've been reading the Daily Mail again.

 

What is this ingrained, underlying psyche, we Scottish people have?

[jake]

I still don't know why you used those figures.

 

Further investigation cannot be substantiated - Why not?

 

I live in Scotland. I go out. I speak to English people and people who are members of the SNP. None of them make anti -English comments and none have spoken of being racially abused. In fact if I spoke in such terms in the pub it would not be well received.

 

The SNP have policies in all areas of government and it is a matter of opinion as to their performance. My view is that they have been very timid and have often taken the line of least resistance. Generally they have projected Scotland's case well particularly in the days after the Brexit vote where Nicola and others assured our EU residents that they remained welcome.

 

"The racial tensions in Europe make England's a playpark" You've been reading the Daily Mail again.

 

What is this ingrained, underlying psyche, we Scottish people have?

 

Your last 2 points.

 

Are you seriously suggesting england has in any way the same problems with race relation than france germany or italy?

 

Perhaps you could look at sectarianism in Scotland in relation to England .

 

Surprisingly the stas wouldnt suit your agenda.

As its prevelant more as ratio between non european population.

 

You keep different company from me on a daily basis if you're unaware of any anti english sentiment.

 

No doubt you think yourself above others.

[Rocco_Jambo]

I don't understand this point. Presumably the reporting regime is the same as before Brexit and presumably the police do not report allegations that are not potentially criminal.

 

I cannot follow the logic that says people are more likely to report non criminal acts and I don't know what "non criminal racial conduct" is. These events are being recorded as racial hate crimes. This is police terminology.

 

The chief constable at the Met thinks it's under recorded https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/sep/28/hate-crime-horrible-spike-brexit-vote-metropolitan-police and a labour M.P. thinks many are too scared to report it. https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/sep/07/hate-surged-after-eu-referendum-police-figures-show He thinks the figures are far higher than reported.

The reporting regime will be the same. But

 

"A ?racist incident? is defined as any incident, including any crime, which is perceived to be racist by the victim or any other person. The coverage is wider than the race hate crime collection as non-notifiable offences, as well as notifiable offences, are included."

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/467366/hosb0515.pdf

 

It's not for the police to decide whether it is actually racist or is actually a crime. The statistics quoted in many of these articles are based on racist incidents reported.

 

Nigel Farage was reported to the police. Nothing happened presumably because it wasn't considered his conduct was a criminal offence or was non criminal racial conduct i.e not considered to be a criminal offence regardless of whether or not it was racist. This report would have been recorded by the police and therefore presumably be within these statistics given.

 

It's quite simple there could be a number of factors why there has been an increase in people reporting racial or hate crime incidents. It could be because more of these crimes have actually been committed therefore we would expect to see a similar increase in prosecutions amd convictions or it may be down to people now being likely to report criminal offences as racist because they presume that is the motive behind it or report things they believe to be racist as crimes when they aren't actually criminal offences (as seen in the example about Farage).

 

At this stage we simply don't know until relevant statistics become available regardless of what some papers try to conclude from these statistics.

 

I'm not going to bother reading more articles from papers who are also trying to push a similar agenda such as the Guardian as it is as about as relevant and fair as the Daily Mail on issues like this.

[coconut doug]

Wouldn't post links to easily found articles on it because its about as reliable as your stats.

 

But my proof to you is this.

Do you live in Scotland and how much are you aware of anti english sentiment?

They are not my stats. They are produced by the police.

[aussieh]

And if Scotland saw the same level of immigration as England? How would that go down?

We do, we just don't call the English immigrants.

[John Findlay]

And if Scotland saw the same level of immigration as England? How would that go down?

The way it is going down at present. Very well.

 

There will be some wishing a tunnel hadn't been built under the English channel. By that I mean it could be seen as England's misfortune that they just happen to be closer geography wisee than anyone in the UK to mainland Europe.

[Boris]

 

An open borders policy which does not enable the UK and UK industry to adopt an immigration policy which offers preferential access to people with skills and qualifications Britain needs,

 

How can an open borders policy not allow entry to the "people with skills and qualifications Britain needs" ?

[Ibrahim Tall]

How can an open borders policy not allow entry to the "people with skills and qualifications Britain needs" ?

This, by definition if it's 'open' no preferential treatment is required?

Also the 'skills' required are often 'unskilled' in the case of many migrants. Ie low paid jobs in farms, factories etc which many Brits are too lazy or unwilling to do. You're not going to get a Doctor or Nurse etc from abroad coming over to do them so you still need to find these people somewhere.

[Francis Albert]

How can an open borders policy not allow entry to the "people with skills and qualifications Britain needs" ?

It doesn't if you assume an infinite capacity.

 

Anyway a balancing question to the one I answered (thanks for the one response)

 

Can anyone identify any features of  "Soft Brexit" that would differ from "Remain"?

[Space Mackerel]

FAO of makeral.

 

I could post links to lots of reasons why membership of the EU is bad for the UK.

From capitalist think tanks respected in the world of finance or i could provide links that show international business wished uk had looser links with tbe eu.

 

I could post links to national referendums of which ive already done which have never been accepted by Eu.

 

I could post links about youth unemployment in southern europe.

I could post links about the uk and it dwindling exports to eu.

I could tell you that only 5% of uk business does so in the eu.

Yet all have to abide by the eu laws.

 

These laws will shortly include the right of multi national companies to sue any government at the taxpayers expense for laws or legislation that affect their profit.

It allows a longer period of patent for drug companiez before generic distribution.

It allows for private take over of public services.

 

It allows for freedom of movement providing you have the correct documents (oh how i laugh).

A policy to allow free movement of cheap labour.

 

 

Anyway i would break up any political power that had a say in so many peoples lifes.

Thats my real reason for wanting brexit.

Exactly how many of these points you've mentioned actually affect your day to day life jake?

 

A bit fat zero.

 

 

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[Daydream Believer]

It doesn't if you assume an infinite capacity.

 

Anyway a balancing question to the one I answered (thanks for the one response)

 

Can anyone identify any features of  "Soft Brexit" that would differ from "Remain"?

 

No, I can't see too much difference other than the fact that we miss out on some of the decision making. 

 

I would have liked to see the voting figures if the choice had been between remain and "hard brexit" but a lot of people believed that they could retain access to the single market and refuse free movement of people.

[jake]

Exactly how many of these points you've mentioned actually affect your day to day life jake?

 

A bit fat zero.

 

 

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I give up.

[Space Mackerel]

I give up.

[Francis Albert]

Exactly how many of these points you've mentioned actually affect your day to day life jake?

 

A bit fat zero.

 

 

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So our votes and political opinions should be based entirely on what affects us personally day to day? Really?

[Francis Albert]

And despite a lot of that quite ludicrous propaganda, reflecting the views of most of the political establishment, the majority voted to leave.

 

Not that it looks as if their votes will count for much at the end of the day.

 

I read estimates today that it could take 20 years to negotiate and implement leaving the EU. Which seems to me to illustrate how much we are stuck with the EU and its project of "ever greater union", whatever we think and whatever we vote for.

[Space Mackerel]

So our votes and political opinions should be based entirely on what affects us personally day to day? Really?

Let's be honest Francis, what jake posted as reasons for the leaving the EU never entered the head of 99.999999999% of Leave voters

 

 

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[Space Mackerel]

And despite a lot of that quite ludicrous propaganda, reflecting the views of most of the political establishment, the majority voted to leave.

 

Not that it looks as if their votes will count for much at the end of the day.

 

I read estimates today that it could take 20 years to negotiate and implement leaving the EU. Which seems to me to illustrate how much we are stuck with the EU and its project of "ever greater union", whatever we think and whatever we vote for.

You really think daft racist Doris from Barnsley and her pals are going to de-rail the global capitalists, World banks and 28 of the most developed nations on Earths plans?

[Cade]

May constantly saying that immigration is her "red line" in any negotiations.

The EU saying that open borders are a non-negotiable term of access to the single market.

 

But

 

UK Govt promising Nissan that access to the single market won't affect them.

 

Hmmmmmm

[Francis Albert]

Let's be honest Francis, what jake posted as reasons for the leaving the EU never entered the head of 99.999999999% of Leave voters

 

 

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Of course they didn't. All but 0.0000000001% of them were thick racists whose votes should be ignored.

[Francis Albert]

You really think daft racist Doris from Barnsley and her pals are going to de-rail the global capitalists, World banks and 28 of the most developed nations on Earths plans?

Daft racist Doris and her 17.4m pals.

 

Haven't you been banging on about how tolerant we Scots are compared to the racist English?

[Francis Albert]

May constantly saying that immigration is her "red line" in any negotiations.

The EU saying that open borders are a non-negotiable term of access to the single market.

 

But

 

UK Govt promising Nissan that access to the single market won't affect them.

 

Hmmmmmm

I don't recollect May or anyone on the Brexit side talking about red lines. It's the remainers (sorry soft Brexiters as they are now known) who have been talking about preconditions or "must haves" determined by parliament in advance of triggering Article 50 and the START of negotiations. I can't believe they are stupid enough or naive enough to think you can go into a negotiation with the other side knowing your "must haves" (and knowing that you cannot be bluffing because it is a condition agreed by parliament) and expect to get anything from the negotiation.

 

Soft Brexit = Remain.