The 2015 General Election Megathread

[JamboX2]

JamboX2, you touch on a lot of issues in your last post and your mates views do represent the opinions of some voters up here but the 24% swing towards the SNP highlights that those views are changing. Both Carmichael and Skene stay in the Isles but neither are born up here, I think its fair to say both are not thought of as "mainlanders" (the term is "South Moothers"). The Labour party have never taken any interest in the Isles as they tend to focus on the central belt areas which has given the Lib Dems a free reign since the days of the hugely popular Joe Grimmond. I think the SNP have a very credible candidate in Danus Skene and in the run up to the election he proved to be more informed about many of the issues than Carmichael and our Lib Dem MSP Tavish Scott. Its the first time the Lib Dems have been challenged by a credible candidate and that combined with their decision to jump into bed with the Torys at Westminster means this is no longer a safe seat for them.

 

If there is a by election I still think the Lib Dems will have a good chance of winning but I do think Carmichael's days are numbered. In a poll carried out by the local paper the Shetland Times 96% voted that he should resign which is fairly conclusive in my opinion and highlights the strength of feeling.

 

You are clearly well informed about some of the issues up here but I do think there is very much two camps and the picture your mate has painted only represents one side. Historically those views were held by the vast majority but that's no longer the case. Anyway it makes a nice change to discuss the politics of the Northern Isles with someone, I agree with your final comments that the parliamentary review. I still don't understand how Carmichael got himself in this predicament and think there is more to this story, Carmichael may be the fall guy but we will probably never know.

I'd hedge my bets on any online poll, after all how many non-Shetlanders voted on it? But it's nice to here the other side.

 

Like I say I don't live there, but I've heard the other side of this argument and it's refreshing to see your side of it.

 

Personally, the island communities deserve a form of devolution within Scotland. They are separated from the mainland and should have more of say on how health, education, policing etc is structured and run for them. After all, Lerwick is nearer Bergen than Edinburgh. If I were you, I'd vote for a candidate offering that. Be he or she Labour, independent, SNP or whatever.

[JamboX2]

Cut it out x2 your always on my case about making it unionist/ nationalist??

Yup. I don't like it either. But Mags was honest enough on his preference to say he would vote for the unionist most likely to win because of the system of voting used.

 

Might not agree with it, but it's as legitimate a democratic decision as any.

Edited May 26, 2015 by JamboX2

[JamboX2]

So, are you saying Slab, Libdem, STory, and UKip are one party, because you seem to be adding them all together against the SNP. 50.02% of all who voted, voted SNP, end of.

56, soon to be 57.

Stop crooning and get on with representing!

 

Honestly, said it a few times here and I still maintain it, the SNP have to be magnanimous in victory so that inevitable defeat isn't as bad as it is for Labour now.

[Gizmo]

There's having lots of seats, which the separatists have, and there's having all the seats, which the separatists want. 

 

They have actively sought to decimate labour and fought a referendum campaign on ridding Scotland of Tories. That's fine, that's democracy. But you cant expect people not to point out how odious and creepy it is.

 

It is negative - nationalism is negative and has had a negative affect on Scotland. That is plain to see by all but the converted. 

 

In 10/20 years there are lots who count themselves as nationalists now who will look back on this period and cringe. The history books will not look fondly on you either. It isn't sour grapes from me - the Tories held their seat. Tories have come to live with an SNP government who want to disenfranchise them. I am just calling as I - and sensible members of society - see it.  

This really is utter bollocks, you've disappeared up your own sphincter and mistaken opinion for fact.

 

Nationalism - the civic nationalism that the YES campaign was based around - sparked imaginations and the whole referendum event saw a pretty disinterested and apathetic electorate switch on and pay attention to what was being said, by both sides - both in the MSM and, crucially, newer mediums.

 

At the time the fear-laced NO campaign won, mostly by stooping low enough to scare Pensioners and by running the most negative campaign imaginable. Their chief campaign architect freely admits they would not have won if they had not done so. There it is -  Better Together ie UK Nationalism would not have won if they had tried to feebly advance any positives for it.

 

Fast forward to the General Election and this more informed and engaged electorate just booted the UK nationalist parties out and saw through the negative spin of McTernan & McDougall, the untrusted lib-dems and the irrelevant Scottish Tories including not falling for 'the leak'. Strange that as soon as an electorate has numerous sources of information and isn't just reliant on the MSM they voted the usual suspects out...

[TheMaganator]

Believing in the union is not UK Nationalism ffs

 

Informed and engaged electorate though - amarite?

Edited May 26, 2015 by TheMaganator

[TheMaganator]

Spare 40 secs to watch Sturgeon during and after the election campaign - on the same subject matter.

 

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10150507010189971&id=501829970&refsrc=http%3A%2F%2Ft.co%2FkIpK4ltbXe&_rdr

 

Spot the difference...

 

She's misled the electorate - lets rerun the election etc etc

[aussieh]

Stop crooning and get on with representing!

Honestly, said it a few times here and I still maintain it, the SNP have to be magnanimous in victory so that inevitable defeat isn't as bad as it is for Labour now.

Hint of double standards coming fae you lately.

Also, Blame Slab, not the SNP for its current predicament X2.

[aussieh]

Believing in the union is not UK Nationalism ffs

Informed and engaged electorate though - amarite?

Eh?.

[JamboX2]

This really is utter bollocks, you've disappeared up your own sphincter and mistaken opinion for fact.

 

Nationalism - the civic nationalism that the YES campaign was based around - sparked imaginations and the whole referendum event saw a pretty disinterested and apathetic electorate switch on and pay attention to what was being said, by both sides - both in the MSM and, crucially, newer mediums.

 

At the time the fear-laced NO campaign won, mostly by stooping low enough to scare Pensioners and by running the most negative campaign imaginable. Their chief campaign architect freely admits they would not have won if they had not done so. There it is - Better Together ie UK Nationalism would not have won if they had tried to feebly advance any positives for it.

 

Fast forward to the General Election and this more informed and engaged electorate just booted the UK nationalist parties out and saw through the negative spin of McTernan & McDougall, the untrusted lib-dems and the irrelevant Scottish Tories including not falling for 'the leak'. Strange that as soon as an electorate has numerous sources of information and isn't just reliant on the MSM they voted the usual suspects out...

At the same time the Yes camp couldn't answer how pensions would be afforded, what the currency would be and a raft of questions regarding the EU.

 

You can blame No all you want for losing. But there were huge faults with the Yes camp. Ones which holed them below the line before No got going. Salmond's inability to realise his own faults has bread a myth that negativity from No won it. But the onus of proof to win was on Yes, and frankly to the majority the reasonable doubt on currency and other issues weren't dealt with well enough to win.

 

No ran a shit campaign and won. Yes ran an equally shit campaign and lost. Both were rancid. Neither inspired enough. Neither developed an inclusive agenda - look at the failure of yes as an official campaign to offer a vision that was more than the SNP and the no camp failed to offer more than just say no.

 

Woeful on both sides and it's surprising people were able to make a decision.

[aussieh]

Spare 40 secs to watch Sturgeon during and after the election campaign - on the same subject matter.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10150507010189971&id=501829970&refsrc=http%3A%2F%2Ft.co%2FkIpK4ltbXe&_rdr

Spot the difference...

She's misled the electorate - lets rerun the election etc etc

Didn't realise, she's an MP.

[JamboX2]

Hint of double standards coming fae you lately.

Also, Blame Slab, not the SNP for its current predicament X2.

In what way?

 

And yes. We've been through this together. I don't shy away from the fact that Labour dug its own grave. Doesn't mean I automatically think the SNP are better or doing a bang up job.

[Cade]

The tearz and snotturz are never ending.

 

[aussieh]

At the same time the Yes camp couldn't answer how pensions would be afforded, what the currency would be and a raft of questions regarding the EU.

You can blame No all you want for losing. But there were huge faults with the Yes camp. Ones which holed them below the line before No got going. Salmond's inability to realise his own faults has bread a myth that negativity from No won it. But the onus of proof to win was on Yes, and frankly to the majority the reasonable doubt on currency and other issues weren't dealt with well enough to win.

No ran a shit campaign and won. Yes ran an equally shit campaign and lost. Both were rancid. Neither inspired enough. Neither developed an inclusive agenda - look at the failure of yes as an official campaign to offer a vision that was more than the SNP and the no camp failed to offer more than just say no.

Woeful on both sides and it's surprising people were able to make a decision.

Pretty inspired, going from 17%, to 45%.

[JamboX2]

Pretty inspired, going from 17%, to 45%.

You mean 33% to 45%? Polling always had independence at 33% for years before the SNP won a majority. Don't known where 17% comes from.

 

Equally, it wasn't enough to win. Who's fault was it that the doubts of at least 6% of the population wasn't addressed?

 

If yes had ran a better campaign, had offered a variety of views rafter than the SNPs opinion and hadn't been so woeful on rebutting legitimate concerns over currency and EU membership - and business and ordinary folk had worries on both which weren't addressed - yes would've won.

[jambos are go!]

What happens if the RUK votes to stay in the EC and Scotland votes to get out?

[aussieh]

In what way?

And yes. We've been through this together. I don't shy away from the fact that Labour dug its own grave. Doesn't mean I automatically think the SNP are better or doing a bang up job.

Seems youre only critical of SNP voters, but not a sausage when you know who and who post their, well lets just say stuff.

[IMac]

This really is utter bollocks, you've disappeared up your own sphincter and mistaken opinion for fact.

 

Nationalism - the civic nationalism that the YES campaign was based around - sparked imaginations and the whole referendum event saw a pretty disinterested and apathetic electorate switch on and pay attention to what was being said, by both sides - both in the MSM and, crucially, newer mediums.

 

At the time the fear-laced NO campaign won, mostly by stooping low enough to scare Pensioners and by running the most negative campaign imaginable. Their chief campaign architect freely admits they would not have won if they had not done so. There it is -  Better Together ie UK Nationalism would not have won if they had tried to feebly advance any positives for it.

 

Fast forward to the General Election and this more informed and engaged electorate just booted the UK nationalist parties out and saw through the negative spin of McTernan & McDougall, the untrusted lib dems and the irrelevant Scottish Tories including not falling for 'the leak'. Strange that as soon as an electorate has numerous sources of information and isn't just reliant on the MSM they voted the usual suspects out...

 

You're delusional.

 

The whole 'informed and engaged electorate' electorate is a myth peddled by the SNP to make their supports feel important.

 

If you talk to people about issue they haven't got a clue.

 

The anti-SNP MSM bias is also a myth, so just stop.

 

I'm not a nationalist. I don't dislike the SNP for their stance on independence. If they had made a proper case for it I would have voted yes. I'm a liberal, I believe in a free and fair and open society. The SNP along with the other parties do not want or care for these things and that is why I argue against them. I find it hard to believe that most people don't also want these things. I honestly think that if people actually looked at policies. the make up of the parliaments would be completely different. So don't come here with that informed and engaged electorate BS.

[TheMaganator]

Didn't realise, she's an MP.

Deflect deflect

 

It was an election debate. What is your response to what was said?

 

I wasn't being serious about rerunning the election. But if the roles were reversed what do you think the #cybernatz would react with?

[aussieh]

You mean 33% to 45%? Polling always had independence at 33% for years before the SNP won a majority. Don't known where 17% comes from.

Equally, it wasn't enough to win. Who's fault was it that the doubts of at least 6% of the population wasn't addressed?

If yes had ran a better campaign, had offered a variety of views rafter than the SNPs opinion and hadn't been so woeful on rebutting legitimate concerns over currency and EU membership - and business and ordinary folk had worries on both which weren't addressed - yes would've won.

Couple of years more prep, but they took the labour bait and went to early.

They'll know the next time, when every that shall be.

[Thunderstruck]

So, are you saying Slab, Libdem, STory, and UKip are one party, because you seem to be adding them all together against the SNP. 50.02% of all who voted, voted SNP, end of.

56, soon to be 57.

That's some logic and even more impressive arithmetic. If more voted other than SNP, how exactly is it possible for the SNP to get more than 50%?

[JamboX2]

Seems youre only critical of SNP voters, but not a sausage when you know who and who post their, well lets just say stuff.

Mags and GW get picked up by many on here when they're wrong, why add to what has already been said?

 

If I disagree with their posts I've commented on I'll bring it up. I just think some of the frankly fantasism from some Yes and SNP voters and the holier than thou stuff has no place in reasonable debate here.

 

Labour cheat expenses, Murphy used expenses for Irn Bru - Robertson's TV and new home cinema system is brushed under the carpet.

Liberals are liars because Carmichael is and he should resign as a result - Salmond and EU advice.

Tories are cutting the services the poorest rely on - SNP underfunded council tax freeze is cutting services the poorest rely on in Scotland.

 

Frankly, they're all screwing us equally. Can we not all realise that? Can we all not call on our political parties to do better and push for better standards of conduct? I thought the SNP were going to usher his in and pronto, but all we've seen is selfies and how great the Irn Bru in the cafe is.

 

But to keep you happy, I'll start a quota, for all those who criticise the SNP (as you clearly see it as us v them) I'll criticise one who doesn't. That work.

 

Opinions don't meet that black and white view of the world.

[aussieh]

Deflect deflect

It was an election debate. What is your response to what was said?

I wasn't being serious about rerunning the election. But if the roles were reversed what do you think the #cybernatz would react with?

cybernats, I've got other things to do, you and your fellow unionistz seem obsessed with The Scottish National Party, not nationalist, National.

[JamboX2]

What happens if the RUK votes to stay in the EC and Scotland votes to get out?

We leave the EU and UK. End of.

[aussieh]

That's some logic and even more impressive arithmetic. If more voted other than SNP, how exactly is it possible for the SNP to get more than 50%?

who said more voted, other than you.

[aussieh]

Mags and GW get picked up by many on here when they're wrong, why add to what has already been said?

If I disagree with their posts I've commented on I'll bring it up. I just think some of the frankly fantasism from some Yes and SNP voters and the holier than thou stuff has no place in reasonable debate here.

Labour cheat expenses, Murphy used expenses for Irn Bru - Robertson's TV and new home cinema system is brushed under the carpet.

Liberals are liars because Carmichael is and he should resign as a result - Salmond and EU advice.

Tories are cutting the services the poorest rely on - SNP underfunded council tax freeze is cutting services the poorest rely on in Scotland.

Frankly, they're all screwing us equally. Can we not all realise that? Can we all not call on our political parties to do better and push for better standards of conduct? I thought the SNP were going to usher his in and pronto, but all we've seen is selfies and how great the Irn Bru in the cafe is.

But to keep you happy, I'll start a quota, for all those who criticise the SNP (as you clearly see it as us v them) I'll criticise one who doesn't. That work.

Opinions don't meet that black and white view of the world.

The GLS did resign, but he was elected to WM.

[JamboX2]

Couple of years more prep, but they took the labour bait and went to early.

They'll know the next time, when every that shall be.

Sorry?

 

That's pish. And you know it. Labour tried the bait in the first term of the SNP, and they didn't bite. The SNP won a majority and had no choice but to play the referendum. They had a majority and had to go then. If they hadn't Salmond would've been forced out for not taking "the chance".

 

If by preparation you mean find answers to questions that should have answers by now after generations of favouring a certain constitutional position, then I agree. The SNP and Yes Scotland lost because they were too close and didn't appeal to more than who vote SNP and on top of that they just didn't have the answers they needed to win.

 

It was as much the Great Yes Folly as any No Betrayal.

[JamboX2]

The GLS did resign, but he was elected to WM.

He didn't resign over his failure to actually have the legal advice he claimed he had after an inquiry. He resigned when the sovereign will of the Scottish people disagreed with them.

 

Doesn't matter what came next, he resigned because he lost the referendum.

 

I reckon in the future, the generation or two after mine, those at high school or starting university at the time will reassess the views of many yes voting writers now and say that the Yes camp lost in 2014 because Salmond and his acolytes failed to allay legitimate fears and concerns and scorned those who asked reasonable questions.

 

That aloof attitude proved unpopular in the referendum and defeat followed.

[aussieh]

Sorry?

That's pish. And you know it. Labour tried the bait in the first term of the SNP, and they didn't bite. The SNP won a majority and had no choice but to play the referendum. They had a majority and had to go then. If they hadn't Salmond would've been forced out for not taking "the chance".

If by preparation you mean find answers to questions that should have answers by now after generations of favouring a certain constitutional position, then I agree. The SNP and Yes Scotland lost because they were too close and didn't appeal to more than who vote SNP and on top of that they just didn't have the answers they needed to win.

It was as much the Great Yes Folly as any No Betrayal.

No, you know it.

should have been next spring. Lamont constantly going on about it, and they bit.

[aussieh]

He didn't resign over his failure to actually have the legal advice he claimed he had after an inquiry. He resigned when the sovereign will of the Scottish people disagreed with them.

Doesn't matter what came next, he resigned because he lost the referendum.

I reckon in the future, the generation or two after mine, those at high school or starting university at the time will reassess the views of many yes voting writers now and say that the Yes camp lost in 2014 because Salmond and his acolytes failed to allay legitimate fears and concerns and scorned those who asked reasonable questions.

That aloof attitude proved unpopular in the referendum and defeat followed.

It will be irrelevant, as Indy will have been won.

[Thunderstruck]

who said more voted, other than you.

The official election result but let's not let facts get in the way.

[TheMaganator]

cybernats, I've got other things to do, you and your fellow unionistz seem obsessed with The Scottish National Party, not nationalist, National.

Deflect - fingers in ears - don't dare criticise the SNP.

[aussieh]

Deflect - fingers in ears - don't dare criticise the SNP.

There's critical, and then there's you.

Obsessed to the point you voted for your parties enemy.

But hey hoo the Nats are twisted and deflective ah mags.

Edited May 26, 2015 by aussieh

[JamboX2]

No, you know it.

should have been next spring. Lamont constantly going on about it, and they bit.

Wendy Alexander offered Salmond the chance to hold his vote by providing Labour vote it through to have the vote by 2010 as promised in the 2007 SNP manifesto.

 

He didn't take it.

 

In 2011 he promised a SNP government would bring the referendum if there was a working independence majority. He won a majority and he brought it forward. No one forced Salmonds hand.

 

He brought it. He lost it. And the Yes camp should put some blame on themselves for losing. Had they actually answered the flaws in their case they'd have won.

 

Legally, in the highest standard to cross to win a court case is a criminal standard of beyond reasonable doubt to get a prosecution. The Yes camp didn't quell the reasonable doubt and lost.

[aussieh]

Wendy Alexander offered Salmond the chance to hold his vote by providing Labour vote it through to have the vote by 2010 as promised in the 2007 SNP manifesto.

He didn't take it.

In 2011 he promised a SNP government would bring the referendum if there was a working independence majority. He won a majority and he brought it forward. No one forced Salmonds hand.

He brought it. He lost it. And the Yes camp should put some blame on themselves for losing. Had they actually answered the flaws in their case they'd have won.

Legally, in the highest standard to cross to win a court case is a criminal standard of beyond reasonable doubt to get a prosecution. The Yes camp didn't quell the reasonable doubt and lost.

Scottish independence should be ample.

[freddiemac]

Another amazing admission from sturgeon today,scotland would lose 300,000 jobs if uk leaves eu. This is unbelievable from sturgeon ,basically saying scotland would have been a basket case country had we got Indy. On her theory scotland would have lost many more jobs ,assuming the problems with trading with ruk where scotland does 80% of its exports. Coupled with the snp economist saying ffa would be financial suicide ,there is now no credible reason for snp to push for indy. The "scaremongers and project fear " are now being proved correct and salmond should resign immediately for the lies he spun.

[TheMaganator]

There's critical, and then there's you.

Obsessed to the point you voted for your parties enemy.

But hey hoo the Nats are twisted and deflective ah mags.

Here we are about 5 posts later and you still haven't addressed the video.

 

Have you watched it? Humour me. It's 40 seconds.

[TheMaganator]

Another amazing admission from sturgeon today,scotland would lose 300,000 jobs if uk leaves eu. This is unbelievable from sturgeon ,basically saying scotland would have been a basket case country had we got Indy. On her theory scotland would have lost many more jobs ,assuming the problems with trading with ruk where scotland does 80% of its exports. Coupled with the snp economist saying ffa would be financial suicide ,there is now no credible reason for snp to push for indy. The "scaremongers and project fear " are now being proved correct and salmond should resign immediately for the lies he spun.

Over the next year we will hear the SNP rerun all of the arguments they criticised Better Together for.

 

It's going to be very

[Arnold Rothstein]

Scottish independence should be ample.

 

Genuine question. When do you think there should be another indy ref?

[Boab]

The tearz and snotturz are never ending.

 

 

Got to admit I had a hearty chuckle when I seen Wee Nicky getting her pic taken at Tynie today. 

[Rand Paul's Ray Bans]

[aussieh]

Genuine question. When do you think there should be another indy ref?

This year.

No, probably 2022ish Arnie.

[aussieh]

Here we are about 5 posts later and you still haven't addressed the video.

Have you watched it? Humour me. It's 40 seconds.

Not interested in any of your pish.

[Arnold Rothstein]

This year.

No, probably 2022ish Arnie.

 

And if the Scottish people reject it again in 2022, then what?

[aussieh]

And if the Scottish people reject it again in 2022, then what?

Rope

[TheMaganator]

Not interested in any of your pish.

Fingers in ears, eh

[aussieh]

Fingers in ears, eh

I CAN'T HEAR YOU.

It's probably just more Slavering hatred.

[aussieh]

Google, type, post, wipe screen, repeat.

Edited May 26, 2015 by aussieh

[TheMaganator]

I CAN'T HEAR YOU.

It's probably just more Slavering hatred.

It's actually just a video clip of 2 of Sturgeon's speeches.

 

Come on aussieh, old boy. Prove me wrong.

[freddiemac]

Over the next year we will hear the SNP rerun all of the arguments they criticised Better Together for.

It's going to be very

outside my place of work where a handful of Celtic fans and a few others still want Indy (no reason given other than I am scottish? ) I hardly know anybody who is still taken in by salmonds barefaced lies and bigotry,enough to vote for Indy.

[JamboX2]

Scottish independence should be ample.

But it wasn't. So what next?

Edited May 26, 2015 by JamboX2