The 2015 General Election Megathread

[Hasselhoff]

I expect SNP comments to be retweeted passionately by the huge number of new supporters so am not surprised hers was the most retweeted comment of question time.

 

If Internet polls decided things, yes would have won in September as they were clear winners in the social media stakes during the referendum

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Odd to see the boot being put into Sturgeon from labour & tories alike yet:

 

Seems she had less of a howler and made more of an impression than the rest of the carefully-chosen panel despite the usual engineered audience.

 

Here's a useful plot of the parties respective policy positions plotted (via Wings whose own position is plotted, too) on The Political Compass. Previous positions held are the striped dots.

 

 

You can plot your own place on the graph here, well worth everyone doing this I think: https://www.politicalcompass.org/test

 

Your own beliefs and views may not line up with your party of choice as closely as you think - my own graph is almost exactly on the same spot as the greens.

 

 

 

 

The SDLP, whose official policy is anti-abortion and who won't even allow a free vote on it, are more libertarian than authoritarian?

 

[scott_jambo]

Interesting. BNP are surely more right wing than that? I thought they were "far right".

 

Must be based purely on Collectivism-------Free Market scale

Edited February 21, 2015 by scott_jambo

[JamboX2]

Odd to see the boot being put into Sturgeon from labour & tories alike yet:

 

Seems she had less of a howler and made more of an impression than the rest of the carefully-chosen panel despite the usual engineered audience.

 

Here's a useful plot of the parties respective policy positions plotted (via Wings whose own position is plotted, too) on The Political Compass. Previous positions held are the striped dots.

 

 

You can plot your own place on the graph here, well worth everyone doing this I think: https://www.politicalcompass.org/test

 

Your own beliefs and views may not line up with your party of choice as closely as you think - my own graph is almost exactly on the same spot as the greens.

 

 

 

 

That graph is nuts. How are the Tories more to the right of UKIP? How are UKIP not in the libertarian bit considering their policies? Bit barmy.

 

I'd suggest you use this https://voteforpolicies.org.uk/ - much better way of doing these online who should I vote for things. I got 40% Green, 40% Labour and 20% LibDem. So I'd be in most parts of that grid of yours :haha:

[JamboX2]

I'm not saying that there's an objective notion of the nation.

But then the subjective notion of the nation will not cater for all parts that make up of the nation... so in effect unless you are all things to all people and policy light you cannot offer a plan that appeals to the "nation" and therefore cannot represent the "national interest".

 

Personally, a national interest is extremely general. Say provision of health care or power or education. How you achieve that is then politcal. Being anti-nuclear is not in the national interest of Scotland. It's in the interests of those in Green politics. Much like the living wage is a nominally more left wing idea than a right wing pro-business one.

[IMac]

The SDLP, whose official policy is anti-abortion and who won't even allow a free vote on it, are more libertarian than authoritarian?

 

thought the same. Also snp are well known for their liberal policies

[The Mighty Thor]

 

 

Unlike most nuclear nations, the UK PM cannot order the use of nuclear weapons. The U.S. president, Russian leader, Indian etc can all order attacks. The British system is one of escalation triggers. There have to be a set of specific circumstances to which the things can be prepared for launch by the military before a green light is given.

 

It's the opposite of live wire responses. It's designed to stop a mad man in office launch the things. Nothing to do with launch codes.

Escalation triggers? what?

We've basically got American nukes we paid for on UK soil/vessels/aircraft with no ability to launch them unilaterally?

 

Sounds legit.

 

The UK an irrelevant faded power with wee man syndrome.

[JamboX2]

 

Escalation triggers? what?

We've basically got American nukes we paid for on UK soil/vessels/aircraft with no ability to launch them unilaterally?

 

Sounds legit.

 

The UK an irrelevant faded power with wee man syndrome.

No we don't. The missiles are bought by the UK and the nuclear warheads made by us. The U.S. services our missile fleet because unlike France we go cheap and buy foreign when it comes to ICBMs.

 

Escalation triggers mean certain situations have to be in place for codes to be released and the deterrent moved to an attack posture. It means the PM can't just order the the flattening of Buenos Aries if the Falklands are invaded. A direct threat to the existence of the UK state is the state where they can be launched. Unlike the USA where a President can order a unilateral first strike, we don't vest the power in the PM or Chiefs of Staff. In fact the PM wouldn't even give the order. He'd consent to it in last resort orders. Those being the sealed letters each PM since we had the bomb left to nuclear air crews and submariners detailing the use of these things in the event they are to be used.

 

The UK only has an at sea deterrent. All other forces lost their nuclear weapons in the last round of nuclear reductions.

 

The system is designed not to be abused. It is designed not to make mistakes.

 

The UK has a huge amount of soft diplomatic power in the world. Our international aid budget and development aid is second to none. The role we play in the EU is key and vital. The role we play as a link between the EU and the USA is the lynch pin of our relationship with the USA. Britain is not a spent nation. It is a key diplomatic power. Throwing our weight around doesn't have to be through bombs or troops or ships. But through soft power and diplomacy. Areas we still lead in.

[aussieh]

bullocks.

 

The Russians are coming for the UK.

[The Mighty Thor]

 

 

No we don't. The missiles are bought by the UK and the nuclear warheads made by us. The U.S. services our missile fleet because unlike France we go cheap and buy foreign when it comes to ICBMs.

 

Escalation triggers mean certain situations have to be in place for codes to be released and the deterrent moved to an attack posture. It means the PM can't just order the the flattening of Buenos Aries if the Falklands are invaded. A direct threat to the existence of the UK state is the state where they can be launched. Unlike the USA where a President can order a unilateral first strike, we don't vest the power in the PM or Chiefs of Staff. In fact the PM wouldn't even give the order. He'd consent to it in last resort orders. Those being the sealed letters each PM since we had the bomb left to nuclear air crews and submariners detailing the use of these things in the event they are to be used.

 

The UK only has an at sea deterrent. All other forces lost their nuclear weapons in the last round of nuclear reductions.

 

The system is designed not to be abused. It is designed not to make mistakes.

 

The UK has a huge amount of soft diplomatic power in the world. Our international aid budget and development aid is second to none. The role we play in the EU is key and vital. The role we play as a link between the EU and the USA is the lynch pin of our relationship with the USA. Britain is not a spent nation. It is a key diplomatic power. Throwing our weight around doesn't have to be through bombs or troops or ships. But through soft power and diplomacy. Areas we still lead in.

So we can't use our nuclear weapons without the direct say of the incumbent in Washington? Champion.

 

Soft diplomatic power? Is that the same as we think we wield power whilst the rest of the nations think we're a parochial, inward looking, tinpot island. We still pump aid into India don't we? The country with more millionaires than any other?

 

The EU. The EU we'll be out of in the next parliament?

 

The UK is an irrelevance. Its an irrelevance to the nations that comprise it let alone its position in the free economic trade area we are desperate to get out of or indeed our former colonies or the G7/8/20 whatever it is we think we're a key part of.

[The Mighty Thor]

bullocks.

 

The Russians are coming for the UK.

Are they coming before or after ISIS have invaded?

[Rand Paul's Ray Bans]

How are UKIP not in the libertarian bit considering their policies? Bit barmy.

 

 

they're nowhere near libertarian.

[JamboX2]

 

So we can't use our nuclear weapons without the direct say of the incumbent in Washington? Champion.

 

Never said that.

 

Soft diplomatic power? Is that the same as we think we wield power whilst the rest of the nations think we're a parochial, inward looking, tinpot island. We still pump aid into India don't we? The country with more millionaires than any other?

 

No. Diplomacy. Diplomats. Embassies. Trade. The work we've done to support refugees in the middle east. The aid we've given against ebola. The work we've done in fighting for education as a universal right through the UN. Being one of the few nations meeting its UN Millennium Goals commitments on spending. The cultural soft power of music, books, art, film, tv and so on. The ban on cluster bombs we spearheaded 5 years ago. The work through the EU in supporting diplomatic efforts to resolve the Ukraine crisis.

 

India may have millionaires but the money we use supports charities offering education to women and children on how to avoid disease. It helps vaccination programs. It is vital. A mans a man after all and we should help those who need it. Our farmers get EU aid. Our local councils do too. Through subsidies. got the Duke of Buccleah.

 

The EU. The EU we'll be out of in the next parliament?

 

A lot of people want a say on the future of the country's membership. Fair enough. Its a democracy. We voted to remain part of that democracy. So we will have one. Polls show that more are in favour to stay in rather than walk.

 

The UK is an irrelevance. Its an irrelevance to the nations that comprise it let alone its position in the free economic trade area we are desperate to get out of or indeed our former colonies or the G7/8/20 whatever it is we think we're a key part of.

55% of Scots didn't think it irrelevant. In fact they thought it very relevant. Our former colonies are in the Commonwealth with us and trade with us more than the BRIC nations. So we aren't a total irrelevance. Our economic importance and the size of our economy have kept us in the G7/8. And the EU commission doesn't want the UK to leave nor do the other members.

 

Britain has bad foreign policy at the moment due to a government unsure of itself let alone itself in the world. But Britain has more to give than many and isn't out of it yet.

 

One example, Syria. France and the USA pulled back from intervention when the UK parliament opposed acting. Britain not acting weakened the argument to act and intervene and so stopped the US and France going in.

[JamboX2]

 

they're nowhere near libertarian.

Laissez-fair capitalists who don't want beauracracy and a minimalist state. Surely that's libertarian government.

[Rand Paul's Ray Bans]

UKIP are none of that. Some (so-called) libertarians cling onto them more out of the lack of an actual UK libertarian party and UKIP trying to tack to the right of the Conservatives rather than actually having libertarian policies. 

[JamboX2]

UKIP are none of that. Some (so-called) libertarians cling onto them more out of the lack of an actual UK libertarian party and UKIP trying to tack to the right of the Conservatives rather than actually having libertarian policies.

A fair argument. I'd argue out of UK parties and Scottish ones they're the closest to it.

[IronJambo]

I'm starting to like the boy George a lot and he's doing a great job trying to buy my vote, first with stamp duty and now with the new child care scheme that starts in October. I'll never vote Tory though, I can't be bought like that.

[Gorgiewave]

Have any of the UK haters ever left the UK or even Scotland? Have they got the faintest clue that the UK is about as good as humanity has ever come up with. If you think corruption is rampant, try Spain or a Third World country.

 

Gleeful hating of the UK is pathetic

[Cade]

Have any of the UK haters ever left the UK or even Scotland? Have they got the faintest clue that the UK is about as good as humanity has ever come up with. If you think corruption is rampant, try Spain or a Third World country.

 

Gleeful hating of the UK is pathetic

 

 

[scott_jambo]

No one has ever left the UK apart from Gorgiewave. FACT.

 

In the last 3 months I've been in Copenhagen and Stuttgart. Both were better than the UK in all areas.

Obviously it must have been heaven or something.. 

 

As an aside, you've mentioned frequently that you hated every aspect of your childhood, despising, Livingston, despising your school and despising Scottish culture.  THE BEST HUMANITY CAN COME UP WITH.

Edited February 22, 2015 by scott_jambo

[aussieh]

No one has ever left the UK apart from Gorgiewave. FACT.

 

In the last 3 months I've been in Copenhagen and Stuttgart. Both were better than the UK in all areas.

Obviously it must have been heaven or something.. 

 

As an aside, you've mentioned frequently that you hated every aspect of your childhood, despising, Livingston, despising your school and despising Scottish culture.  THE BEST HUMANITY CAN COME UP WITH.

It's that good, he left.

[aussieh]

Are they coming before or after ISIS have invaded?

They're awready here.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

No one has ever left the UK apart from Gorgiewave. FACT.

 

In the last 3 months I've been in Copenhagen and Stuttgart. Both were better than the UK in all areas.

Obviously it must have been heaven or something..

 

As an aside, you've mentioned frequently that you hated every aspect of your childhood, despising, Livingston, despising your school and despising Scottish culture. THE BEST HUMANITY CAN COME UP WITH.

 

[The Mighty Thor]

 

 

Have any of the UK haters ever left the UK or even Scotland? Have they got the faintest clue that the UK is about as good as humanity has ever come up with. If you think corruption is rampant, try Spain or a Third World country.

 

Gleeful hating of the UK is pathetic

UK haters or people with a realistic view of where the UK really sits in the world picture?

 

I've lived and worked abroad a lot in the last 20 years and I'm pretty comfortable with my view of the UK and even of Scotland's position in amongst all that.

 

Once the UK stops trying to project a power it doesn't have and cannot afford then and only then will it be able to address the issues ripping it apart from within.

[TheMaganator]

The UK has wee man syndrome?! FFS

[aussieh]

More the bully sidekick you see in films, that you would wipe the floor with, but the worlds bullyboy the USA is in it's corner.

I think Russia's had enough of the rUK.

[aussieh]

Look forward to all you Brits signing up if they invade.

Ukers Cannae leave the welsh and N.I. oot.

Edited February 22, 2015 by aussieh

[TheMaganator]

Look forward to all you Brits signing up if they invade.

Ukers Cannae leave the welsh and N.I. oot.

Out of interest, if Russia did invade Britain, what side would you pick to fight on?

[aussieh]

C.O

I'd never swear allegiance to the Queen of England, put it that way.

Only indy Scotland.

Edited February 22, 2015 by aussieh

[Gorgiewave]

Jim would fight for Vlad. Probably his hero, cos Eck said. "The man's search for a tyrannical fatherland never ends".

[JamboX2]

C.O

I'd never swear allegiance to the Queen of England, put it that way.

Only indy Scotland.

I seem to remember us being told that the Queen would remain Queen and her kids the heirs to the position of head of state in Scotland if Yes had won.

[aussieh]

Not fae me, not in a Republic.

Why would a socialist even say something like that.

[JamboX2]

Not fae me, not in a Republic.

Why would a socialist even say something like that.

I'm not a monarchist. But as a citizen of a country I'm bound by its constitution till that changes. All good and well you wouldn't want it, but your position was not the position offered to the rest of us.

[aussieh]

When u coming home to this Eden of a country?, may need your wit to defeat the commies.

[Gorgiewave]

And why would a socialist support Scottish independence? To have a country dominated by oil and finance?

[aussieh]

Jim would fight for Vlad. Probably his hero, cos Eck said. "The man's search for a tyrannical fatherland never ends".

Ill do whatever the greatest living Scotsman asks of his people.

Fellow St Andrew folk.

[JamboX2]

Ill do whatever the greatest living Scotsman asks of his people.

Fellow St Andrew folk.

Cult of the personality alive and well in 21st century Scotland. Greatest living Scot? Deary me.

[Arnold Rothstein]

Ill do whatever the greatest living Scotsman asks of his people.

 

On the assumption you mean Eck, if this is true we're fecked.

[scott_jambo]

And why would a socialist support Scottish independence? To have a country dominated by oil and finance?

 

It's not about how wealth is created, it's about how it's distributed.

[Gorgiewave]

A fat, cocky, smirking, gambling man who has done more harm than anybody in the last 25 years? Cult of personality and an embarrassment.

[RosscoC]

A fat, cocky, smirking, gambling man who has done more harm than anybody in the last 25 years? Cult of personality and an embarrassment.

I think you should seek some kind of therapy - this hatred you have cannot be good for your health.

[JamboX2]

http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/snp-signs-no-strike-deal-with-scots-prison-staff-1-3697919

 

SNP government sign deal with POA to end right to strike for prison officers with neither discussing this with the STUC or TUC in order for the POA members to receive the only pay rise of public sector workers in Scotland.

 

The government, and the union to me, needs to answer why it is now right and legitimate to request and accept in return for a pay rise that the right to strike be withdrawn as part of the deal. The Union leadershipmhave endorsed the SNP and Yes before. That is their right. But to then renounce the right to strike so soon after with that government is concerning.

 

The UN charter on fundamental rights recognises the right to withdraw labour as a key and vital aspect of democratic rights. To now advocate as part of negotiating with unions that we as a state are happy to request withdrawal of certain rights open to people then it's a worry.

 

It'll be interesting if the same approach is applied to teachers, firefighters, ambulance crews, bin men, train drivers and so on.

 

Not a great signalling of being a social democratic government when you actively engage in diminishing trade union rights.

Edited February 22, 2015 by JamboX2

[aussieh]

At least Hague's off, that voice would give a migraine a sore head.

[Randy Marsh]

Just had some Labour activists round at my door dropping of some leaflets and asking who I would be voting for at the forthcoming General Election.  They are getting really desperate.

 

The leaflet basically tells you that you must vote Labour to avoid another Tory government.  I find this slightly bemusing since they were holding hands together during the Referendum campaign.  Its very surprising as deep down their very good pals.

 

If it was a straight shoot out between Labour and the Tories then I wouldn't vote.

 

I'm just grateful that we have the SNP as the main party up here these days.  A party that actually cares about Scotland.  The sooner Labour are wiped out of Scotland the better.

[Guest Trapper John]

Just had some Labour activists round at my door dropping of some leaflets and asking who I would be voting for at the forthcoming General Election.  They are getting really desperate.

 

The leaflet basically tells you that you must vote Labour to avoid another Tory government.  I find this slightly bemusing since they were holding hands together during the Referendum campaign.  Its very surprising as deep down their very good pals.

 

If it was a straight shoot out between Labour and the Tories then I wouldn't vote.

 

I'm just grateful that we have the SNP as the main party up here these days.  A party that actually cares about Scotland.  The sooner Labour are wiped out of Scotland the better.

 

It was wonderful watching that that irritating little twerp, the Nat 'leader' being shown up for what she was as on QT on Thursday.

 

A shrieking non-entity, an embarrassing irrelevance, full of tiresome soundbites who got put in her place by Tarzan Heseltine, Bannatyne, Flint and Joe Public. 

 

Also great to see a TV audience not auto-filled with sycophantic, bullying Nat supporters shouting down the opposition.

 

There'll always be an England, God bless 'em.

[Randy Marsh]

It was wonderful watching that that irritating little twerp, the Nat 'leader' being shown up for what she was as on QT on Thursday.

 

A shrieking non-entity, an embarrassing irrelevance, full of tiresome soundbites who got put in her place by Tarzan Heseltine, Bannatyne, Flint and Joe Public. 

 

Also great to see a TV audience not auto-filled with sycophantic, bullying Nat supporters shouting down the opposition.

 

There'll always be an England, God bless 'em.

 

 

haters gona hate!

[Gorgiewave]

It was wonderful watching that that irritating little twerp, the Nat 'leader' being shown up for what she was as on QT on Thursday.

 

A shrieking non-entity, an embarrassing irrelevance, full of tiresome soundbites who got put in her place by Tarzan Heseltine, Bannatyne, Flint and Joe Public. 

 

Also great to see a TV audience not auto-filled with sycophantic, bullying Nat supporters shouting down the opposition.

 

There'll always be an England, God bless 'em.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GvkyKEYRnM

 

Vera Lynn was thriving before the SNP existed.

[aussieh]

It was wonderful watching that that irritating little twerp, the Nat 'leader' being shown up for what she was as on QT on Thursday.

 

A shrieking non-entity, an embarrassing irrelevance, full of tiresome soundbites who got put in her place by Tarzan Heseltine, Bannatyne, Flint and Joe Public. 

 

Also great to see a TV audience not auto-filled with sycophantic, bullying Nat supporters shouting down the opposition.

 

There'll always be an England, God bless 'em.

Not after the Russian invasion.

[Rand Paul's Ray Bans]

half y'all are getting reported for trolling, ya hear. Stop ruining the thread. 

Edited February 22, 2015 by Joe Biden's Aviators

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Beginning to think that some people truly believe that Russia are spoiling for a fight!