The 2015 General Election Megathread

[JamboX2]

Corbyn may have lost his chance to get labour back on track in Scotland .

No more devolution

No more new powers

No second referendum

 

Shame he has misread the public mood which is giving the SNP 62% in the Polls .

Link?

[JamboX2]

No

 

The SNP are a grass roots party

 

By the people for the people

I forgot the grassroots want to sell off Calmac, let the Dutch run the railways and back tax freezes for the well off whilst cutting funding to personal care and social services...

 

If that's what the people want, I don't want to be part of the people anymore.

 

The democratic process of the SNP has kinda gone backwards ask John Finnie who left the SNP for the Greens as a result of the leadership diminishing the rights of members on policy decisions.

[aussieh]

I forgot the grassroots want to sell off Calmac, let the Dutch run the railways and back tax freezes for the well off whilst cutting funding to personal care and social services...

 

If that's what the people want, I don't want to be part of the people anymore.

 

The democratic process of the SNP has kinda gone backwards ask John Finnie who left the SNP for the Greens as a result of the leadership diminishing the rights of members on policy decisions.

I wonder how many will leave labour depending on the leadership decision?.

[JamboX2]

I wonder how many will leave labour depending on the leadership decision?.

I don't think there's many more left to leave in Scotland. I'm in no doubt that next year will be another bad result for Scottish Labour. However, beyond the hype of the SNP I don't see much of a real commitment to social justice and redistribution. Their record in government doesn't lend itself to that.

 

But politics is cyclical. What goes must come down, etcetera.

 

If Corbyn wins at UK level it will be very interesting to see how the SNP react to a genuinely left wing Labour Party which is further to the left on a lot of issues than the SNP. Especially considering the points I raised above. Are you happy that key utilities have been and are being flogged to foreign companies for profit? That the council tax freeze hurts the poorest and benefits the wealthy? That despite free tuition, less children from poorer backgrounds are going to college and university than in England which has fees? That the government is happy to compensate the tax avoiding, minimum wage dodging, zero hours contract employing company like Amazon to set up shop than encourage the growth of local businesses?

 

I'm fairly sure the National and the independence movement would rightly crucify a Labour administration for that list of failings.

Edited August 15, 2015 by JamboX2

[Psychedelicropcircle]

I don't think there's many more left to leave in Scotland. I'm in no doubt that next year will be another bad result for Scottish Labour. However, beyond the hype of the SNP I don't see much of a real commitment to social justice and redistribution. Their record in government doesn't lend itself to that.

 

But politics is cyclical. What goes must come down, etcetera.

 

If Corbyn wins at UK level it will be very interesting to see how the SNP react to a genuinely left wing Labour Party which is further to the left on a lot of issues than the SNP. Especially considering the points I raised above. Are you happy that key utilities have been and are being flogged to foreign companies for profit? That the council tax freeze hurts the poorest and benefits the wealthy? That despite free tuition, less children from poorer backgrounds are going to college and university than in England which has fees? That the government is happy to compensate the tax avoiding, minimum wage dodging, zero hours contract employing company like Amazon to set up shop than encourage the growth of local businesses?

 

I'm fairly sure the National and the independence movement would rightly crucify a Labour administration for that list of failings.

Any chance you could

List the labour privatisation scheme you'd have us believe they've privatised nowt the way you go on.

[Boris]

I don't think there's many more left to leave in Scotland. I'm in no doubt that next year will be another bad result for Scottish Labour. However, beyond the hype of the SNP I don't see much of a real commitment to social justice and redistribution. Their record in government doesn't lend itself to that.

But politics is cyclical. What goes must come down, etcetera.

If Corbyn wins at UK level it will be very interesting to see how the SNP react to a genuinely left wing Labour Party which is further to the left on a lot of issues than the SNP. Especially considering the points I raised above. Are you happy that key utilities have been and are being flogged to foreign companies for profit? That the council tax freeze hurts the poorest and benefits the wealthy? That despite free tuition, less children from poorer backgrounds are going to college and university than in England which has fees? That the government is happy to compensate the tax avoiding, minimum wage dodging, zero hours contract employing company like Amazon to set up shop than encourage the growth of local businesses?

I'm fairly sure the National and the independence movement would rightly crucify a Labour administration for that list of failings.

Surely it doesn't matter if Corbyn wins, it's more what Dugdale or the other chap do as to whether Labour fight back in Scotland?

[jambos are go!]

Labour get slagged on here by SNP sipporters for abandoning their traditional support on the left to garner the votes of the mainly middle class centre. Thats rich given the efforts the SNP have made to attract middle class votes for a decade. JamboX2 has outlined that clearly above. Lets again recall that Ruth Davidson said that the next best thing to a Tory Budget is an SNP Budget. Not surprising when John Swinney acts more like a bookkeeper than a man on a mission to boost Scotlands economy and tackle social need.

 

Labour is currently involved in a passionate and heartwrenching debate about how to tackle austerity and reconnect with their traditional support and values and regaining electoral support. Compare and contrast that with the SNP who stifle any internal debate and do little or nothing about anything new other than ignoring the democratic will of the people to remain in the Union

[aussieh]

Labour get slagged on here by SNP sipporters for abandoning their traditional support on the left to garner the votes of the mainly middle class centre. Thats rich given the efforts the SNP have made to attract middle class votes for a decade. JamboX2 has outlined that clearly above. Lets again recall that Ruth Davidson said that the next best thing to a Tory Budget is an SNP Budget. Not surprising when John Swinney acts more like a bookkeeper than a man on a mission to boost Scotlands economy and tackle social need.

 

Labour is currently involved in a passionate and heartwrenching debate about how to tackle austerity and reconnect with their traditional support and values and regaining electoral support. Compare and contrast that with the SNP who stifle any internal debate and do little or nothing about anything new other than ignoring the democratic will of the people to remain in the Union

Wheres this debate happening.

The Scottish people voted Yes, so theyre fighting on to free us, from the internal no vote of brits.

[Jarhead]

His party are

 

 

What does that say if his party elect him as their leader?

 

Jeez, we've got tartan tories, ****ing tories and red tories. We truly are thatchers children after all!

[JamboX2]

Any chance you could

List the labour privatisation scheme you'd have us believe they've privatised nowt the way you go on.

When presented with the chance to bring the railways into public ownership in Scotland they opted to flog it to the Dutch. Calmac is now going through a process of selling off their routes lead by the government. On top of that every attempt to re-regulate bus routes in the country, ie make the government at national and local level enforce time tables and a high level of services, have been rejected by the SNP.

 

So 3 key public utilities, all under their control, all they've either kept in the private sector, failed to enforce regulations properly or are in the process of selling off.

[Psychedelicropcircle]

When presented with the chance to bring the railways into public ownership in Scotland they opted to flog it to the Dutch. Calmac is now going through a process of selling off their routes lead by the government. On top of that every attempt to re-regulate bus routes in the country, ie make the government at national and local level enforce time tables and a high level of services, have been rejected by the SNP.

 

So 3 key public utilities, all under their control, all they've either kept in the private sector, failed to enforce regulations properly or are in the process of selling off.

Still no list of labour privatisation?

[Psychedelicropcircle]

Kez the new branch office manager! How long will murph us lackey last? Hope corbyn wins just to keep the awkwardness going!

[JamboX2]

Surely it doesn't matter if Corbyn wins, it's more what Dugdale or the other chap do as to whether Labour fight back in Scotland?

Well it's Dugdale and Rowley. I'm surprised Rowley won. But he's a left winger of the old school and he's got radical ideas for re-building Scottish Labour. This is also a massive shift in the power base. From Dewar to Dugdale, she is only the second leader not to be representing a west coast seat. Add to that her deputy represents Fife. So the party has shifted its base East to Edinburgh and Fife. Dugdale is also the first MSP leader not to have been an MSP in 1999 and Rowley was elected in 2012/3 in a by-election.

 

It's an interesting result. Many expected Baker or Matheson to win. But Rowley is the left winger and Dugdale a more moderate lefty.

 

Let's see how this plays out as the job is a long term one, but the party has elected a team at the top which is fresher, younger and open to new ideas.

 

And yes it will be their job to run the party in Scotland. However, they're just not as well known in Scotland due to the media coverage across the UK, and in Scotland, being focused on the more interesting Corbyn race. Corbyn would signify a major shift in the UK party and that will impact Scottish Labour as it is one movement. It'll also affect Welsh Labour as well. As I've said a more left wing Labour challenges the SNP on policy terms. At UK level a more oppositional Labour with left wing values removes the Red Tory tag, which in turn helps Scottish Labour.

 

It's complicated, but Kezia, I think, is the best option for some time and she's talked a good game so far (focus on education, housing, helping young people out, equalities etc). She's handled FMQs well and in my opinion, she'll make a good go as leader in opposition, better than those who came before her.

[aussieh]

Kezia dugdale, Slab Chargehand.

Ffs, Someone help me up.

[JamboX2]

Still no list of labour privatisation?

In 2008 Labour nationalised the banks, can't get more left wing than that! (Obviously a joke). What's not a joke is they renationalised the East Coast mainline. When that was proven to be a money earner for the government and profits were better placed back into the railways Labour adopted a renationalisation approach to the railways and that was shown in the 2010 and 2015 UK manifestos but also the Scottish Manifesto in 2011. Not to mention calls from Joanne Lamont in 2013/14 to let the Scotrail franchise to return to public ownership.

 

Labour privitised little directly. They adhered to what the Tories at done and left rail, utilities and other such items privitised, but the SNP never called for that at the time either, nor did many major centre left party in Europe at the time either. Times were different. They gave the Bank of England independence and that's been a success. I'd say the involvement of private companies in the NHS down south was not a good idea, but thankfully the Scottish Labour led coalition at Holyrood blocked that from happening.

 

I agree that they should've brought railways back into the public sector and made the case for public investment under Blair and Brown more forcefully.

 

But times change, we've seen how much fares increase under private companies in railways and in other transport organisations. We've seen the energy firms constantly raise their prices whilst people make the choice of food or warmth since the Thatcherite sell off. You learn from this. The idea of the privatisation agenda was to give people the shares so they themselves owned these companies as shareholders. Sadly that pipe dream is trampled by reality of big money buyouts and no protection for small shareholders from aggressive buyouts.

 

It's time to look at bringing major utilities into some form of public ownership. I don't want energy run from Whitehall. Or Scotrail run from St Andrews House. I want these to be cooperatives and directly accountable to the consumers and workers who rely on their services and employment. At the very least I'd like to see the energy cartel in Britain smashed apart. Labour actually had policies on this under its last leader and will likely keep them under their next one at UK and Scottish level. Where's the SNP, LibDem or Tory response to these things?

[JamboX2]

Wheres this debate happening.

The Scottish people voted Yes, so theyre fighting on to free us, from the internal no vote of brits.

Corbyn packs halls in Scotland and up and down the nation. The other candidates are actually attending big gatherings too, except Kendal. The Scottish paid UK hustings have been well attended and people are actually engaging in these debates. The UK leadership election allows non-Labour members, the public, to vote on it.

 

The debate is ongoing around you. Look for it and you will find it.

 

As for your last comment, I see we're still sticking to only true scots voted yes, and I thought it was about democracy not identity.

[Rand Paul's Ray Bans]

let the Dutch run the railways

 

"It huz tae be good hoanest Scoattish laddies running oor railways!"

 

Deary ****ing me. 

[AlphonseCapone]

When presented with the chance to bring the railways into public ownership in Scotland they opted to flog it to the Dutch. Calmac is now going through a process of selling off their routes lead by the government. On top of that every attempt to re-regulate bus routes in the country, ie make the government at national and local level enforce time tables and a high level of services, have been rejected by the SNP.

 

So 3 key public utilities, all under their control, all they've either kept in the private sector, failed to enforce regulations properly or are in the process of selling off.

You are right (left ) with the above JamboX2. The sad thing is though, every party bar the greens would have done the same. The SNP are left in the 21st century sense. That's why I hope Corbyn wins.

[aussieh]

Corbyn packs halls in Scotland and up and down the nation. The other candidates are actually attending big gatherings too, except Kendal. The Scottish paid UK hustings have been well attended and people are actually engaging in these debates. The UK leadership election allows non-Labour members, the public, to vote on it.

 

The debate is ongoing around you. Look for it and you will find it.

 

As for your last comment, I see we're still sticking to only true scots voted yes, and I thought it was about democracy not identity.

Full of non labour supporters, out for a laugh.

Personally if I want to see a comedian, id pick a professional.

Democracy comes through identity.

Youre going backwards.

[JamboX2]

"It huz tae be good hoanest Scoattish laddies running oor railways!"

 

Deary ******* me.

Not what I said. But Abelio has a history of bad employment practices, has already failed to do some of the things they promised to do and passenger satisfaction is down not up. Rather than the profits of the Scottish rail network go to the nationalised Dutch rail company and its shareholders, I'd rather the Scottish railways would make a profit here, reinvest it in Scotland and as a result keep fares low and services high.

 

Nothing to do with gid Scottish laddies. It's about essential services being run to the benefit of people not being used as cash cows.

[JamboX2]

You are right (left ) with the above JamboX2. The sad thing is though, every party bar the greens would have done the same. The SNP are left in the 21st century sense. That's why I hope Corbyn wins.

I agree. And can't fault you there at all. Which is why it confuses me to a degree as to the opinion of, if Scotland is as left wing as the SNP would have us believe in its nature, then why aren't the greens and ssp up polling in the twenties?

[JamboX2]

Full of non labour supporters, out for a laugh.

Personally if I want to see a comedian, id pick a professional.

Democracy comes through identity.

Youre going backwards.

Democracy is nothing to do with indentity. It's about the people's voice being heard and enacted. About accountability and responsibility. About basic equality of basic rights. What identity you have is secondary to that, not because of it. Edited August 15, 2015 by JamboX2

[aussieh]

Democracy is nothing to do with indentity. It's about the people's voice being heard and enacted. About accountability and responsibility. About basic equality of basic rights. What identity you have is secondary to that, not because of it.

No, its about us Scots, Running the place,with everything that comes and goes with it. Not by telegram fae london, with two bit hand out diddy admin regs, you call powers.

Weve nae interest in pishy powers, that England feel we can have, ram them.

All or nothing.

Anyway it doesnt matter, indy will come soon enough, by vote or udi, either way is fine.

Edited August 15, 2015 by aussieh

[Stuart Lyon]

UDI - you are having a laugh! What Fringe venue are you appearing at?

[Arnold Rothstein]

No, its about us Scots, Running the place,with everything that comes and goes with it. Not by telegram fae london, with two bit hand out diddy admin regs, you call powers.

Weve nae interest in pishy powers, that England feel we can have, ram them.

All or nothing.

Anyway it doesnt matter, indy will come soon enough, by vote or udi, either way is fine.

UDI? Haha. How on earth would that work in this situation? You're hilarious.

[JamboX2]

Jambox2 what's your opinion or corbyn.

 

You not concerned if wins party leadership, it makes labour unelectable.

I think Corbyn can tap into something that the others can't. He may do well, after all it's hard to do worse. Burnham and Cooper are a lot like what's been before. And that's not worked out. Corbyn will likely change the party and open it up and will attract more people to the party - younger voters who feel the system isn't working for them. I think he's able to tap into that protest vote, he's more likely to win back voters from UKIP and the nationalist parties in Scotland and Wales and he acts and talks like a normal person.

 

Do I think he can win an election? Big ask. Labour need to pull off a major turnaround in the next 5 years across the UK. Not just England. I doubt Cooper and Burnham can do that, Kendall can't. I don't think Cornyn will, but he may win more seats back than the rest. I honestly think after 2020 we will likely have a minority government at UK election and it'll likely be a Tory one.

[aussieh]

UDI? Haha. How on earth would that work in this situation? You're hilarious.

If the SNP, score the same result in 5 years time, they could trigger an UDI. Its still in play.

No indyref2 required. Job done.

Easy.

[Stuart Lyon]

And in the real world it won't happen. You'll be in Canada by then.

[The Mighty Thor]

I see the Labour centrists are preparing to wheel Broon out again to dispense wit and wisdom over the leadership race.

Nice wee bit of irony in wheeling out the man who'd have sold his granny for a shot in the bosses chair to lecture on core values and principles.

[ToadKiller Dog]

Peter Mandelaon wrote to the 3 bliarite candidates asking them all to pull out of the contest so it would be suspended , but was told that if that Happened Corbyn would win rather than the race suspended .

Shows the lengths those people will go to , bliarites crapping pants .

Big fan of democracy is Mandelson

[jack D and coke]

Peter Mandelaon wrote to the 3 bliarite candidates asking them all to pull out of the contest so it would be suspended , but was told that if that Happened Corbyn would win rather than the race suspended .

Shows the lengths those people will go to , bliarites crapping pants .

Big fan of democracy is Mandelson

Mandelson should've got a jail sentence a few years back.

A thoroughly repulsive individual.

Edited August 17, 2015 by jack D and coke

[deesidejambo]

Peter Mandelaon wrote to the 3 bliarite candidates asking them all to pull out of the contest so it would be suspended , but was told that if that Happened Corbyn would win rather than the race suspended .

Shows the lengths those people will go to , bliarites crapping pants .

Big fan of democracy is Mandelson

Blair and his "Blair Babes" have brought this on themselves by abandoning their grass roots support in pursuit of "Power".  What you sow, you reap.

[Thunderstruck]

Peter Mandelaon wrote to the 3 bliarite candidates asking them all to pull out of the contest so it would be suspended , but was told that if that Happened Corbyn would win rather than the race suspended .

Shows the lengths those people will go to , bliarites crapping pants .

Big fan of democracy is Mandelson

Not the sort of thing the SNP would be involved with, is it?

 

See the reference to "ABR" or "Anyone but Rosie":

 

http://m.heraldscotland.com/opinion/13600636.David_Torrance__Labour_s_leadership_battles/

[aussieh]

Not the sort of thing the SNP would be involved with, is it?

 

See the reference to "ABR" or "Anyone but Rosie":

 

http://m.heraldscotland.com/opinion/13600636.David_Torrance__Labour_s_leadership_battles/

Aye, but the SNP...

[ToadKiller Dog]

Not the sort of thing the SNP would be involved with, is it?

 

See the reference to "ABR" or "Anyone but Rosie":

 

http://m.heraldscotland.com/opinion/13600636.David_Torrance__Labour_s_leadership_battles/

Good old whataboutery diversion .

I had left the SNP by 2000 so wasn't involved in that election , but still had friends involved at that time , the 2004 election was bruising but to compare it with what Corbyn is having to deal with is a nonsense .

[jack D and coke]

Hilarious.

Blair, Brown and that creep Mandelson are actually firing Corbyn to glory

I'd love all of them to stand against Corbyn. Seeing them annihilated would be tremendous.

[Cade]

Labour

 

[jambo1185]

Corbyn is definitely winning. Lots of people with Yes badges attended his Scottish rallies, I suspect they were disappointed to hear him say in Dundee that:

 

?The last time a referendum happened, I was told by Alex Salmond it was a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity ? I don?t know how many lifetimes are involved in this. I don?t think another referendum would be credible and I don?t think it is particularly likely.?

 

So that's ensured his party are dead to those who moved to the SNP, and dead to anyone who moved to New Labour post 97. So who's actually going to vote for them?

Edited August 17, 2015 by jambo1185

[IMac]

I'm looking forward to a left wing labour party. On the left we have the snp and labour. On the right the tories. Leaving the middle up for grabs. Elections are won in the middle.

[Sraman]

Labour are in need of rebuilding. Jeremy Corbyn can do this and offer real opposition to the Tories unlike the blue Labour we currently have. They won't win straight away but they will be going in the right direction if Jeremy is elected. It will be a tough gig getting rid of the deadweight Blairites, who have destroyed the party, and rebuilding a serious Labour movement within the UK. If you sell your soul to win at all costs, everyone sees through it, and stops voting for you. At this moment in time Labour have no credibility and, out of the contestants in this race, Jeremy seems the only one remotely likely to bring some credibility back.

 

After saying all of this I'll still be voting SNP, as England gets more and more right wing with the Tory top geezers taking lessons from Mein Kampf and quoting from concentration camp gates, this is a UK I personally don't want to be a part of and with England having the majority in this "equal democracy of Nations" the only way I can see of getting away from this is Independence.

[Stuart Lyon]

The former Labour supporters in the SNP would surely only return to Labour if the party supported independence. If they are not interested in independence then why didn't they have the balls to stay in the Labour party and try and change it from within? 

[aussieh]

I'm looking forward to a left wing labour party. On the left we have the snp and labour. On the right the tories. Leaving the middle up for grabs. Elections are won in the middle.

The Libdems are more likely, to get a boot to the middles. Edited August 17, 2015 by aussieh

[AlphonseCapone]

Not the sort of thing the SNP would be involved with, is it?

 

See the reference to "ABR" or "Anyone but Rosie":

 

http://m.heraldscotland.com/opinion/13600636.David_Torrance__Labour_s_leadership_battles/

Embarrassing response.

 

Absolutely obsessed with the SNP.

[JAYEL]

Corbyn is definitely winning. Lots of people with Yes badges attended his Scottish rallies, I suspect they were disappointed to hear him say in Dundee that:

 

?The last time a referendum happened, I was told by Alex Salmond it was a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity ? I don?t know how many lifetimes are involved in this. I don?t think another referendum would be credible and I don?t think it is particularly likely.?

 

So that's ensured his party are dead to those who moved to the SNP, and dead to anyone who moved to New Labour post 97. So who's actually going to vote for them?

 

 

JamboX2

[JamboX2]

Corbyn is definitely winning. Lots of people with Yes badges attended his Scottish rallies, I suspect they were disappointed to hear him say in Dundee that:

 

?The last time a referendum happened, I was told by Alex Salmond it was a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity ? I don?t know how many lifetimes are involved in this. I don?t think another referendum would be credible and I don?t think it is particularly likely.?

 

So that's ensured his party are dead to those who moved to the SNP, and dead to anyone who moved to New Labour post 97. So who's actually going to vote for them?

Why would the MP for Islington back independence? Equally why would a left wing, Trade Unionist who believes in workers solidarity and the common cause of British workers through socialism back independence? Or back a second vote?

 

There are those who vote SNP who don't want independence. Equally there are left wingers in the SNP and Greens who aren't wholly committed to independence and may be won back by a left wing Labour.

 

If all those who intend to vote SNP in May back independence then fair enough. But polling doesn't show that to be the case.

[JAYEL]

Why would the MP for Islington back independence? Equally why would a left wing, Trade Unionist who believes in workers solidarity and the common cause of British workers through socialism back independence? Or back a second vote?

 

There are those who vote SNP who don't want independence. Equally there are left wingers in the SNP and Greens who aren't wholly committed to independence and may be won back by a left wing Labour.

 

If all those who intend to vote SNP in May back independence then fair enough. But polling doesn't show that to be the case.

 

England will not be voting for a Socialist Goverment any time soon

[JamboX2]

England will not be voting for a Socialist Goverment any time soon

The one thing we've heard a lot from the left wing of the pro-independence camp is "we won't get a socialist government in the UK, because no one will offer it". So Corbyn offers it, and now they won't vote for it.

 

Personally, I doubt we'd get a socialist government in an independent Scotland. As I've said repeatedly there's no evidence that the Scottish people are any more left wing than the rest of the UK. The Lab-Lib coalitions and the SNP in government have all been centrist. Compare the of the ssp and greens in election results to Labour, Liberal Party and the SNP on % share of the vote.

 

Corbyn, however, is offering it, and he's doing well with voters beyond he Labour Party in a number of polls. Let's see how he does.

[JAYEL]

The one thing we've heard a lot from the left wing of the pro-independence camp is "we won't get a socialist government in the UK, because no one will offer it". So Corbyn offers it, and now they won't vote for it.

 

Personally, I doubt we'd get a socialist government in an independent Scotland. As I've said repeatedly there's no evidence that the Scottish people are any more left wing than the rest of the UK. The Lab-Lib coalitions and the SNP in government have all been centrist. Compare the of the ssp and greens in election results to Labour, Liberal Party and the SNP on % share of the vote.

 

Corbyn, however, is offering it, and he's doing well with voters beyond he Labour Party in a number of polls. Let's see how he does.

 

If the Referendum taught me one thing it was watch the tory establishment machine kick in to gear.Iincluding the impartial BBC

 

They will have the fear put into them so much especially pensioners that any Corbyn goverment wouldn't stand a chance of getting elected.

 

It is a well oiled machine now. with plenty practice

 

Some unionists are not going to like it

 

 

Fear over hope

 

I am sure i have heard that phrase before

[Boab]

Scraping the barrel now with some holocaust denial link thing to Corbyn...Cathy Newman on Channel 4 news doing a great impression of a BBC presenter.

Methinks they are shitting themselves......very pleasing. 

[aussieh]

The one good thing that came from the indyref, is it opened my eyes to the media.