JamboX2 Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 Behave yourself! Corbyn did nothing to achieve peace. The reason the likes of Adams came to the table was the realisation that they couldn't win by terrorism and the ballot box, especially when Joe Hendron beat him in the 1992 General Election. Corbyn was the typical "Troops Out!" useful idiot in the 1980s. I never said he was the man who achieved peace. All I said was he spoke to the likes of Adams etc and this would later be the route the government took. I'm not arguing he achieved peace. As I've said before, Corbyn will need to moderate certain views if/when he takes on the leadership. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMaganator Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-34015720 ?45m of money we were meant to get from the EU suspended because of spending 'irregularities' by the Scottish Government. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 Aye this is to do with Swinney setting up ghost companies and charitable trusts for universities, colleges and other such public services to use. The Govt can then put money into these shadow companies and trusts then claim it's saving money on running public services when it's actually increasing funding via these fake charities. It's a total mess and needs sorting out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Thor Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 (edited) . Edited August 21, 2015 by The Mighty Thor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMaganator Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/michael-gove-proven-right-schoolkids-6301722 Top 500 state schools now out performing top 500 private schools in England. Gove vindicated? Meanwhile, in Scotland under the SNP, litaracy levels are actually falling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussieh Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 (edited) When all is said and done, Labour and the Tories lost in Scotland, and are now a redundant force. I can't fathom why some unionists are still posting links on a thread titled GE2015 when the said event was 3 months ago. It's too late to persuade the electorate... Youre right, time for a plain old, politics megathread Edited August 23, 2015 by aussieh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambo1185 Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 When all is said and done, Labour and the Tories lost in Scotland, and are now a redundant force. I can't fathom why some unionists are still posting links on a thread titled GE2015 when the said event was 3 months ago. It's too late to persuade the electorate... Because people can't be bothered digging out the 2016 thread i guess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboX2 Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 (edited) When all is said and done, Labour and the Tories lost in Scotland, and are now a redundant force. I can't fathom why some unionists are still posting links on a thread titled GE2015 when the said event was 3 months ago. It's too late to persuade the electorate... Redundant force? I don't think so. If they are then I hope a new form of opposition is formed. Afterall politics is and should always be about more than one party, one voice, one set of opinions. Or must the "new" politics be one which adheres to the views and mannerisms of the Yes Scotland campaign? Edited August 23, 2015 by JamboX2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussieh Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 (edited) Redundant force? I don't think so. If they are then I hope a new form of opposition is formed. Afterall politics is and should always be about more than one party, one voice, one set of opinions. Or must the "new" politics be one which adheres to the views and mannerisms of the Yes Scotland campaign? Scotland has for a long time been a one party Country. Its the fact, its not YOUR beloved SLabour party that bothers you. And drop the new habit youve picked up, of blaming Yes Scotland(you voted yes)or/& the SNP for the numptyness of Slab and blab. Edited August 24, 2015 by aussieh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Lyon Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 YES lost it big time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMaganator Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 Yes, can everyone stop discussing politics please. We have our one-party state now so no requirement to discuss or question anything for the next 5 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 Yes, can everyone stop discussing politics please. We have our one-party state now so no requirement to discuss or question anything for the next 5 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMaganator Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 That's not very nice. You lefties can be real meanies at times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 That's not very nice. You lefties can be real meanies at times. Not as mean as the Capitalist running dogs! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMaganator Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 Aimlessly posting links about how bad the SNP is not a discussion of politics. And, it'll be a one-party state for longer than 5 years. Get used to it. It was a post about Tory education policy that prompted your little spitting of the dummy. As the good Prof said I think we are at peak SNP at the moment, or maybe after the next Holyrood elections. Large chunks of the SNP support will begin to see them for the shower of incompetents that they are. Sadly there are some that have been completely reprogrammed that will never waken up but hey ho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 It was a post about Tory education policy that prompted your little spitting of the dummy. As the good Prof said I think we are at peak SNP at the moment, or maybe after the next Holyrood elections. Large chunks of the SNP support will begin to see them for the shower of incompetents that they are. Sadly there are some that have been completely reprogrammed that will never waken up but hey ho. However incompetent they may be, the policies of this current UK government are hardly resonating in Scotland. As long as they exist, and Labour appear to be broadly supportive of them, the SNP will thrive. Rightly or wrongly. The EU referendum may well be a defining point too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaymarketJambo Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 YES lost it big time! And also did the "better together parties" in May lost big, big time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderstruck Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 Aimlessly posting links about how bad the SNP is not a discussion of politics. Neither, it would seem, is constant whining about any post that criticises the SNP and that includes any detailed evaluation of their record whilst in power. What would make the debate more interesting would be some attempt to list the achievements of the SNP so that those of us who harbour doubt/concern/suspicion might better understand the attraction they have for others. Is criticism outlawed in your One-Party State. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToadKiller Dog Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 Figures of how many people have died under Ian Duncan Smiths welfare cuts/sanctions regime to be finally released today after his best attempts to stop the figures being released were rejected . Will be interesting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 Someone challenges some of the tripe that you post and your reaction is 'spitting of the dummy'. Peaked? Their support increases, denial is what you suffer. Do you really think that the 45% who voted Yes will vote anyone else but the SNP? Especially with what else is on offer. SNP landslide every Sc and GE election if your lifetime. Suck it up. Um, I voted YES and I will NOT be voting SNP at the Holyrood elections next year. Just saying... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderstruck Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 The SNP's purpose is to run a government. They're doing that successfully. That's my point; you can't simply say they are doing it successfully. You could be right but some empirical evidence would assist. My view is that they are not and, with each passing day, we hear of more issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 People treating politics like they are supporting a football team Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMaganator Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 Someone challenges some of the tripe that you post and your reaction is 'spitting of the dummy'. Peaked? Their support increases, denial is what you suffer. Do you really think that the 45% who voted Yes will vote anyone else but the SNP? Especially with what else is on offer. SNP landslide every Sc and GE election if your lifetime. Suck it up. These boards and others are littered with Yes voters who will not be voting SNP. Then we have RISE http://www.scotsman.com/news/lesley-riddoch-on-the-rise-a-new-left-wing-force-1-3866753, the Greens and others. No denial here matey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 These boards and others are littered with Yes voters who will not be voting SNP. Then we have RISE http://www.scotsman.com/news/lesley-riddoch-on-the-rise-a-new-left-wing-force-1-3866753, the Greens and others. No denial here matey. That's an interesting article. Cheers for posting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussieh Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 Um, I voted YES and I will NOT be voting SNP at the Holyrood elections next year. Just saying... Dont think, you and X2, will dent the %, boris. Just saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 Dont think, you and X2, will dent the %, boris. Just saying. No perhaps not, but HD's comment that "Do you really think that the 45% who voted Yes will vote anyone else but the SNP?" is precisely the sort of triumphalist nonsense that pisses people off. It completely ignores the broad front that the YES campaign was (or perhaps in retrospect was supposed to have been!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaymarketJambo Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 Not triumphalist in any way, but I will retract my broad statement. I would however hedge my bets that 95%+ will support the SNP in future elections, especially given that their current polling is around 55%-60%. Your correct about the SNP, I think the SNP will do really well in next year's Holyrood elections, but like some the posts are correct have just about hit their peak? The SNP really need to up their game on Education especially and the Police Scotland merger had to be done, but that should been a done a few years down the road, it's been a mess? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderstruck Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 I've said it before, they're the best placed party to run Scotland right now. The Tories are crooks, the Labour party a joke, Lib-Dems obsolete. sb.snp.org/achievements Better than the others - that really is damnation by faint praise. If those items listed in your link are deemed "achievements" then Saints Preserve Us! Council Tax Freeze - a regressive sop to the "Middle Classes" and a cover for a failed flagship policy from 2007. Remember the 64-sheet hoardings telling us how the SNP would "abolish the unfair Council Tax". NHS - the diversion of ?1bn (11%) p.a. away from frontline, the crisis in GP provision, the constant failures stall levels due to overstretch. The Police - "face palms" are infantile but that deserves one. Free Education - it is now quite clear and beyond any doubt that the policy limits opportunities for Scots kids to study in Scotland. The remainder are all things that any council could achieve if they were properly funded by Edinburgh. I hope that your list is an old one and needs updating as that is a report card that any self-respecting kid would be reluctant take home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderstruck Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 They ARE the best of a bad bunch, many SNP supporters acknowledge that whilst looking introspectively at their party, it's evident from this thread where many (including myself) may return to Labour if they successfully with the electorates apathy. You stick with Labour, you're suited for each other with all the doom and SNP caterwauling. What makes you think I am a Labour supporter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphonseCapone Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 YES lost it big time! They lost. They never lost big time though, that's wrong. Independence support was steady at 30% give or take for many years. 45% of people voted yes, that's a massive increase and I believe support has maintained effectively, up or down a few points. Paint it how you want, Yes lost but they lost by a lot less than expected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambos are go! Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 (edited) Lets see the colour of their manifestos. Mind you the SNP will probably delay theirs and clone the Scottish Labour one. There is no way that the SNP deserve a third term given the lamentable failures outlined by Thunderstruck above. And no way are they a more effective administration than Previous Labour ones And the gave us true progressive policies like free personal care and a fair and comprehensive student support system dismantled by the SNP.And they delivered the smoking ban and did not put it on a convenient back burner as the SNP have done with minimum alcohol pricing. Scotland deserves better and is hopefully beginning to realise it. Its laughable that the SNP say they would welcome a Corbyn victory when their social policies are much closer to Cameron Edited August 24, 2015 by jambos are go! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 Not triumphalist in any way, but I will retract my broad statement. I would however hedge my bets that 95%+ will support the SNP in future elections, especially given that their current polling is around 55%-60%. I'm sure you are right, and perhaps triumphalist wasn't the best word I could have used. I guess I was getting at an almost smug complacency that seems to be hanging around the SNP right now, and whilst I'm not accusing you of that, I just feel that because the SNP is synonymous with independence, it is forgotten that independence isn't synonymous with the SNP. Now, I would agree with your latter comments regarding them being the best of a bad bunch, but some of the criticism levied at them is justified. I do think that one can criticise the SNP government and be pro-independence but criticising the SNP's record as a government is not an argument against independence in itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 Lets see the colour of their manifestos. Mind you the SNP will probably delay theirs and clone the Scottish Labour one. There is no way that the SNP deserve a third term given the lamentable failures outlined by Thunderstruck above. And no way are they a more effective administration than Previous Labour ones And the gave us true progressive policies like free personal care and a fair and comprehensive student support system dismantled by the SNP.And they delivered the smoking ban and did not put it on a convenient back burner as the SNP have done with minimum alcohol pricing. Scotland deserves better and is hopefully beginning to realise it. Its laughable that the SNP say they would welcome a Corbyn victory when their social policies are much closer to Cameron Um, it wasn't Labour on their own that gave us those things. Don't forget the Lib Dem contribution! Not taking away from the achievements of the Lib/Lab coalitions, I thought they did ok, but a bit cheeky to call them Labour achievements! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderstruck Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 They lost. They never lost big time though, that's wrong. Independence support was steady at 30% give or take for many years. 45% of people voted yes, that's a massive increase and I believe support has maintained effectively, up or down a few points. Paint it how you want, Yes lost but they lost by a lot less than expected. Go read the Scottish Social Attitudes Survey and you will find that support for Independence has varied over the years. Sept 2014 wasn't even the high point of the last 20 years. The long term trend is 30-35% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambos are go! Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 Um, it wasn't Labour on their own that gave us those things. Don't forget the Lib Dem contribution! Not taking away from the achievements of the Lib/Lab coalitions, I thought they did ok, but a bit cheeky to call them Labour achievements! OK to some extent you have a point. However, if I remember correctly free personal care was championed by Henry MacLeish and the smoking ban by Jack McConnell. Free personal care is the most radical social measure introduced in Scotland alone since Holyrood started. Compare and contrast that with the way the SNP resisted tackling the Bedroom Tax till pressurised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAYEL Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 Better together rewards...... http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/13623040.Cameron_poised_for_controversy_with_appointment_of_another_50_peers/ Time to leave this s... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambos are go! Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 (edited) Agreed. I've been guilty on a few occasions of failing to acknowledge the contribution of the Greens, amongst others. The amalgamation of the separate police forces has been a disaster. Most SNP supporters acknowledge that, and such criticisms are completely justified. However, there seems to be an over focus on what the SNP are doing wrong, rather than what their own parties are doing right. I can't recall a single positive post offered by a unionist in the lead up to this GE. Let me offer you a positive post. Vote for parties that will try and use Holyrood and its expanded powers to its full extent to meet the wishes and aspirations of the electorate. Parties that will be bold and innovative in grasping the new opportunities and fulfilling the dreams of great Scots from Keir Hardie, Jo Grimmond through to David Steel, John Smith and Gordon Brown. Let it be a beacon for reform and rebuilding the beneficial Union. Lets build a better Scotland, better UK and a better World. Reject narrow nationalism and timid politics in our Parliament. Edited August 24, 2015 by jambos are go! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussieh Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 Let me offer you a positive post. Vote for parties that will try and use Holyrood and its expanded powers to its full extent to meet the wishes and aspirations of the electorate. Parties that will be bold and innovative in grasping the new opportunities and fulfilling the dreams of great Scots from Keir Hardie, Jo Grimmond through to David Steel, John Smith and Gordon Brown. Let it be a beacon for reform and rebuilding the beneficial Union. Lets build a better Scotland, better UK and a better World. Reject narrow nationalism and timid politics in our Parliament.No, I'd rather not have any lapdog party anywhere near the controls at Holyrood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAYEL Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 Let me offer you a positive post. Vote for parties that will try and use Holyrood and its expanded powers to its full extent to meet the wishes and aspirations of the electorate. Parties that will be bold and innovative in grasping the new opportunities and fulfilling the dreams of great Scots from Keir Hardie, Jo Grimmond through to David Steel, John Smith and Gordon Brown. Let it be a beacon for reform and rebuilding the beneficial Union. Lets build a better Scotland, better UK and a better World. Reject narrow nationalism and timid politics in our Parliament. :rofl: Westminster branch parties will do as they are told Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphonseCapone Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 Go read the Scottish Social Attitudes Survey and you will find that support for Independence has varied over the years. Sept 2014 wasn't even the high point of the last 20 years. The long term trend is 30-35% Ok so surely you'd agree that if the long term trend 30-35% then 45% was a success? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMaganator Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 Ok so surely you'd agree that if the long term trend 30-35% then 45% was a success?Only convincing 10/15% of the population after a 2/3 year campaign with all the money they could spend, a majority government setting the agenda in Holyrood, an unpopular Tory led government in Westminster and an army of foot soldiers to campaign for them is not a success. They could have won the thing had they campaigned better and actually thought about the mechanics of being independent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambos are go! Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 :rofl: Westminster branch parties will do as they are told Like SNP MSPs and MPS me wonders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderstruck Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 Ok so surely you'd agree that if the long term trend 30-35% then 45% was a success? Sorry to burst your bubble but, on the same measure, the Referendum polled 37% in favour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAYEL Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 Like SNP MSPs and MPS me wonders. Correct for Scotlands interest only Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambos are go! Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 The bedroom tax would never have been introduced if it wasn't for 47 Labour MP's abstaining on the repeal. But hey, don't let that stop you bashing the SNP of course. The SNP at Holyrood had the power to negate The Bedroom Tax regardless of Westminster but had to be pressurised into so doing. Holyroods powers are wasted on the SNP, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambos are go! Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 Correct for Scotlands interest only So SNP parliamentarians are a bunch of coerced YES men and women and you think that is in Scotland interest. Really Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAYEL Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 So SNP parliamentarians are a bunch of coerced YES men and women and you think that is in Scotland interest. Really Yes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAYEL Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 Murphy tried using his autonomy at Holyrood and was promptly whipped back in line. Gordon Brown - a great Scot? Heavens above. I admire your vision, but it's fanciful thinking that Labour is capable of delivering anything that you describe. They all had their chances in the past and delivered nothing. Now they confined to the history books Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderstruck Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 But they'd have nothing to negate if Labour didn't abstain. If I recall correctly, it was Labour-led councils in Scotland that embarrassed the Scottish Government to act, just as it was for Living Wage. The SNP administration seemed to prefer stoking the fires of resentment to actually trying to assist those in need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambos are go! Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 Murphy tried using his autonomy at Holyrood and was promptly whipped back in line. Gordon Brown - a great Scot? Heavens above. I admire your vision, but it's fanciful thinking that Labour is capable of delivering anything that you describe. I took up the challenge of providing a positive unionist Vision for Scotland. Gordon Brown is a political Giant IMO and history will reflect that. Scottish Labour has a mountain to climb but there is always room at the top as they say. Every Journey starts with a single step. The SNP are not interested in any form of Devolution succeeding but the people are. There lies hope and opportunity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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