The 2015 General Election Megathread

[JamboX2]

We'll just have to see what tax varying powers the Scottish Government gets granted from Westminster and then what is done with these powers before really seeing where things stand.

 

Will the SNP be brave and true to their word, raising middle and higher-band income tax to pay for improving things like Police, Schools and NHS?

 

Will ScotLab and Scot-Tory pledge to lower taxes in a desperate attempt to woo voters?

 

time will tell and all this whataboutery is getting us nowhere but in silly circular arguments.

Labour has already committed to a 0% rate for low income earners above the exemption and a return to a 50% rate on higher earners. Swinney has already backtracked on the commitment in their Westminster manifesto of a 50p rate saying he doesn't think it should be higher than the UK wide higher rate.

[JamboX2]

Scotland already suffers, and has austerity forced upon us. And you're happy to watch Scotland struggle just to get back at the SNP for whatever they've done to upset you? Unluckily for you, Scotland wouldn't suffer - it'd thrive.

How do you thrive economically when you're economy would be run by your nearest and biggest competitor? The idea of a currency union run from the Bank of England, to me, was ridiculous. Independence in name only as Carney and the London Treasury vet the budget and diminish political independence as a result.

 

After all the EU has proved that economic divergence amongst the Eurozone is a recipe for disaster and that fiscal rules need to be heavily enforced as a result. Scotland would've be bound to follow the UK's lead economically in such an outcome.

[aussieh]

Labour has already committed to a 0% rate for low income earners above the exemption and a return to a 50% rate on higher earners. Swinney has already backtracked on the commitment in their Westminster manifesto of a 50p rate saying he doesn't think it should be higher than the UK wide higher rate.

Labour say a lot. Well I suppose you will, when youre desperate, with no chance of winning

[aussieh]

How do you thrive economically when you're economy would be run by your nearest and biggest competitor? The idea of a currency union run from the Bank of England, to me, was ridiculous. Independence in name only as Carney and the London Treasury vet the budget and diminish political independence as a result.

 

After all the EU has proved that economic divergence amongst the Eurozone is a recipe for disaster and that fiscal rules need to be heavily enforced as a result. Scotland would've be bound to follow the UK's lead economically in such an outcome.

The Bank of Where?.

[Malinga the Swinga]

Scotland already suffers, and has austerity forced upon us. And you're happy to watch Scotland struggle just to get back at the SNP for whatever they've done to upset you? Unluckily for you, Scotland wouldn't suffer - it'd thrive.

Sctland isn't struggling, no where near it. The majority of people are prospering and are happy with their lives, they just don't shout and winge about it. We will never find out what would happen after independence cause we will never have to suffer it, the silent majority will ensure that's and there is nothing that the SNP can do to change that, unless they lower wining line to under 50%. Surprised wee Eck and Nicola haven't tried that one yet. Edited August 9, 2015 by Malinga the Swinga

[JamboX2]

Labour say a lot. Well I suppose you will, when youre desperate, with no chance of winning

Criticised for not offering policy, criticised for offering policy...

[JamboX2]

The Bank of Where?.

Of England. Founded by a Scot. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Paterson_(banker)

Edited August 9, 2015 by JamboX2

[aussieh]

Of England. Founded by a Scot. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Paterson_(banker)

Idea?

[aussieh]

Criticised for not offering policy, criticised for offering policy...

If the 6 candidates, up for the leaderships of Labour, are the best they have to offer, theyll be gone for a very long time.

[aussieh]

Sctland isn't struggling, no where near it. The majority of people are prospering and are happy with their lives, they just don't shout and winge about it. We will never find out what would happen after independence cause we will never have to suffer it, the silent majority will ensure that's and there is nothing that the SNP can do to change that, unless they lower wining line to under 50%. Surprised wee Eck and Nicola haven't tried that one yet.

Wait til theres no other WM government, than Tory, and we'll see how silent they are?

Indy coming soon,

Tick Tock,

Mintit.

 

 

Oh, I dont think a swing of 187000 votes is that silent.

Edited August 9, 2015 by aussieh

[Arnold Rothstein]

The Bank of Where?.

[Thunderstruck]

Scotland already suffers, and has austerity forced upon us. And you're happy to watch Scotland struggle just to get back at the SNP for whatever they've done to upset you? Unluckily for you, Scotland wouldn't suffer - it'd thrive.

The definition of Austerity Measures is, as I am sure you are well aware, a reduction in public spending and/or tax rises in order to address a budget deficit.

 

Which part of a steady tax take and overall public spending increases at around the rate of inflation is "austere"? (http://www.ukpublicspending.co.uk)

 

Sturgeon aka "Auntie-Austerity" and her government have been applying austere measures with alacrity since 2008 (and before the GEC) with the Council Tax Freeze and reduction in Local Government spending with real losses of jobs and local services. You should also bear in mind that the CT Freeze followed the failed manifesto commitment to Local Income Tax where the promised 2p turned out to be 7p when the calculations were done properly.

 

As I said a few weeks ago, "Austerity" is what is being suffered by the Greeks and to describe the conditions in the UK as "austere" is an insult to them.

[GBJambo]

Wait til theres no other WM government, than Tory, and we'll see how silent they are?

Indy coming soon,

Tick Tock,

Mintit.

 

 

Oh, I dont think a swing of 187000 votes is that silent.

It is when that 187,000 is growing.

You sound like a hobo with that tick tock nonsense.

Your not a hobo are you?

[GBJambo]

It'd be a stop gap allowing a cross-over period to a Scottish pound presumably.

And where would the funding for a Central Bank come from?

[jambos are go!]

Lets discuss if was right to remove well over a 100,00 places at FE Colleges(which largely help working class kids) whilst maintaining a student support system that provides free tuition to those who can well afford to pay. 

[Hasselhoff]

I never said struggling, I said suffering.

 

Go out and volunteer, speak to service users that suffer the most extreme cuts and ask them what is prosperous in their lives.

And what will change for them in an indy Scotland? Will they become scientists on a large salary? No, the chances are they will remain doing what they are doing now, if their employer doesn't move south. Those out of work long term will still be without a job needing welfare except we now have less money to pay welfare with. End result will be more people struggling as you put it

 

Grass is always greener

[GBJambo]

Depends when the transition is finalised, might have been years. It's subjective.

So the rUK would hold our hand till we are ok

Edited August 9, 2015 by GBJambo

[Malinga the Swinga]

I never said struggling, I said suffering.

Go out and volunteer, speak to service users that suffer the most extreme cuts and ask them what is prosperous in their lives.

You can go anywhere in the world and there are always people who shout about suffering. They happen to shout the loudest whereas others get on and graft away, getting on with their and their families lives. Whilst some may say they are suffering, the majority are doing their best to prosper and succeed.

[Thunderstruck]

Austerity:

 

1.

difficult economic conditions created by government measures to reduce public expenditure.

 

 

So, you agree. Excellent, we are making progress.

[pablo]

When you have nothing in life, what is there left to lose?

That's correct, it was aspirational hard working people who had it all to lose and that's why we said No.

[pablo]

Spoken like a true Tory.

Thank you.

[Hasselhoff]

When you have nothing in life, what is there left to lose?

So take a massive risk instead? Not everyone wanted to take that leap of faith, especially since there were holes all through the Yes plan.

 

Should people who are acting out of desperation be making a decision which needs to be made logically and with a reasoned approach?

[Thunderstruck]

Depends when the transition is finalised, might have been years. It's subjective.

How long was the transition to be in the White Paper? Didn't Salmond inform us all before the Referendum that the transition would be complete by April 17? Although, to be fair, that was before he found out that all three of his currency plans (A, B and C you will remember) were Pie in the Sky (a pie, no doubt, to be baked with non-GM flour).

[jambos are go!]

Perhaps.

Most of the places were PT and simply filling quotas. I recall reading a piece by a lecturer that welcomed the move, she stated that they were a drain on resources and the subjects offered little in return. They were expensive to maintain and deprived others of a proper education.

So you think some should have good higher ducation and others should have no higher education to pay for it. Cant agree with that.

[Thunderstruck]

It is Holyrood that decides how much money Holyrood receives?

It is Holyrood that decides how the money it receives is spent. How is that working out?

[aussieh]

It is when that 187,000 is growing.

You sound like a hobo with that tick tock nonsense.

Your not a hobo are you?

Oh, the ive nothing post.

No, are you? Or a hun?

[aussieh]

That's correct, it was aspirational hard working people who had it all to lose and that's why we said No.

Most yes voters, could probably buy and sell you.

[aussieh]

Thank you.

Your pensions protected.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Most yes voters, could probably buy and sell you.

They didn't buy and sell enough of them then.

[aussieh]

They didn't buy and sell enough of them then.

How many accounts do u have, pablo?

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

How many accounts do u have, pablo?

27 niblick

[aussieh]

27 niblick

[JamboX2]

It'd be a stop gap allowing a cross-over period to a Scottish pound presumably.

But it wasn't a stop gap. It was described as the only option. The white paper framed it as the only reasonable and acceptable course of action.

[Hasselhoff]

But it wasn't a stop gap. It was described as the only option. The white paper framed it as the only reasonable and acceptable course of action.

Did you not say you voted yes? What were you hoping would have happened?

[jake]

I voted yes.

 

But im not under any illusions that Scotland would necessarily flourish.

 

As for the questions on currency it may surprise you to know that the Adam Smith institute had several models which we could use.

[JamboX2]

Spoken like a true Tory.

Why is aspiration a bad word? Aspiration isn't all about making money. It's about doing better than your predecessors did. It was aspirational of me to go to university when my parents hadn't. It's aspirational of me to want to work in a profession rather than a trade like my dad. It's aspirational of me to want my kids to do better than I do.

 

That's not a "Tory" dream it's a desire to be better and to do better than what came before me. My mum was aspirational in her ambition later in life to go back to college get her highers and go to uni as an adult to be a teacher. Is she a Tory for such acts?

 

The left in this country can be overly reverse snobbish when it comes to the idea of aspiration. It's essentially the notion of why we have a left wing and parties of the centre left. They're parties that believe aspiration shouldn't be the preserve of the already prosperous.

Edited August 9, 2015 by JamboX2

[JamboX2]

Did you not say you voted yes? What were you hoping would have happened?

An independent currency. However, I'm under no illusions that that would've (a) happened and ( b ) that an independent Scotland would be any better than what we have now.

 

I voted for it to end the debate on it. If yes had won and a currency union failed to occur it would be the greatest failure of tang Scottish government in the 21st century. At that point it'd be the euro or a new currency,

Edited August 9, 2015 by JamboX2

[Hasselhoff]

An independent currency. However, I'm under no illusions that that would've (a) happened and ( b ) that an independent Scotland would be any better than what we have now.

 

I voted for it to end the debate on it.

Knowing what you do now, would you still vote Yes just to end the debate? Or would you change to No?

 

The unionists need people like you to stand up and be counted! If there were lots of people doing what you did, it would give Yes hope that they were close to a majority and it makes the neverendum happen. There needs to be a high majority to No to stop the debate for a generation IMO.

[Jarhead]

Sturgeon is about the only party leader that will actually answer a question when asked.

Just a FYI, Labour have had more years in power than the SNP. A minority government existed in 2007, the tram fiasco provided evidence that they were at the mercy of other parties.

Un-capitalising the SNP is a bit childish no? Both your contributions equate to the same - SNP bad. We get it. Make a positive case, the electorate respond well to it.

There's no quote but I'll assume you're replying to my post. Nothing more sinister than laziness using a tablets keyboard. You may well have noticed labour wasn't capitalised either.

Good job for the spell corrector providing capitals at the beginning of sentences.

Is the snp so thin skinned that it doesn't even tolerate poor grammar when it comes to writing its name?

 

Since when has being a minority government not equated to being in power? By that logic labour have never been in power as they were at the mercy of the libdems.

 

Any party can be as happy clappy positive as they want. It doesn't mean that they aren't talking nonsense. Unfortunately in modern day Scotland I'll probably be derided as a doom mongering unionist for suggesting so.

[JamboX2]

Knowing what you do now, would you still vote Yes just to end the debate? Or would you change to No?

 

The unionists need people like you to stand up and be counted! If there were lots of people doing what you did, it would give Yes hope that they were close to a majority and it makes the neverendum happen. There needs to be a high majority to No to stop the debate for a generation IMO.

In hindsight I'd have voted No.

[aussieh]

In hindsight I'd have voted No.

The only thing necessary for evil to triumph, is for good men to do nothing or vote no.

Shame on you X2.

Mines a bitter.

[aussieh]

#bitter together.

[Psychedelicropcircle]

This thread; when your party is a joke to the Scottish electorate revert back to the indyref.

[maroonlegions]

So we are ALL in it TOGETHER then,as smug Cameron once farted out his sun don't shine??

 

Politics and politicians and the policy makers or the movers and shakers as some view them are taken the utter pesh out of the electorate, RBS  share sale ?1billion rip off  for the taxpayer, now the last shares of Royal Mail line a few pockets of the already very rich.

 

Those defending such gross theft and blatant irresponsibility towards the taxpayer will never admit the injustices of Austerity and the selling off of PUBLICLY owned assets.

 

Total criminality and no shame either, those in the south of England who voted in such large numbers for these  legalised gangsters in expensive suits were conned too it seems.

 

 

 

If people really cannot differentiate between the creation of poverty  and those struggling with it  because it's outwith their control then it's a case of "i am alright jack feck you". All in it together my arse.

 

Sad, very sad that we an call ourselves CIVILISED.

Edited August 9, 2015 by maroonlegions

[aussieh]

So we are ALL in it TOGETHER then,as smug Cameron once farted out his sun don't shine??

 

Politics and politicians and the policy makers or the movers and shakers as some view them are taken the utter pesh out of the electorate, RBS share sale ?1billion rip off for the taxpayer, now the last shares of Royal Mail line a few pockets of the already very rich.

 

Those defending such gross theft and blatant irresponsibility towards the taxpayer will never admit the injustices of Austerity and the selling off of PUBLICLY owned assets.

 

Total criminality and no shame either, those in the south of England who voted in such large numbers for these legalised gangsters in expensive suits were conned too it seems.

 

 

 

If people really cannot differentiate between the creation of poverty and those struggling with it because it's outwith their control then it's a case of "i am alright jack feck you". All in it together my arse.

 

Sad, very sad that we an call ourselves CIVILISED.

ML, I doff my cap.

well said.

[aussieh]

I have no idea what you're talking about. The purse-strings are controlled by Westminster, that was the original discussion. It is them that is forcing poverty on a large percentage of the population through their cuts to tax credits etc.

Exactly, They go on about underspend, and it should be used to fight foodbanks etc..., when they know fine well any surplus goes straight back down the road.

[pablo]

I wasn't referring to his mention of 'aspiration', more his complete disregard for people less off than him which is the Tory doctrine.

That's quite an accusation. Go on please.

[Hasselhoff]

Osborne is a crook, simple as. His family are tax-avoiders, even through he is apparently one of the main critics of avoidance:

 

The video said he and his family did nothing wrong. They sold land to a property developer which was based in a tax haven abroad for ?6m. They then did up the land and sold the properties for ?20m. They would have paid little or no tax on their profits as they were offshore. The tax avoiders were the buyers of the land not osbourne or his family.

 

Not sure what you expect Osbourne to do? Reject the offshore buyer and hold out for ?6m from someone in the UK?

 

As the video said he did nothing illegal nor did his family but don't let that distract you from your accusations.

[Psychedelicropcircle]

I stated 'when you have nothing, there is little left to lose', to which you nonchalantly brushed it off by stating pompously that you had it all to lose as you and the No voters were the 'aspirational hard-working people'. Thus, you disregarded many people who struggle and displayed a lack of humanity.

Careful you'll expose the I'm alright jacks.

[Jarhead]

I stand corrected and apologise.

I have never voted for the SNP, so can't confirm if grammar is a prerequisite to communicating with a member. SNP were in 'power' in 1997-, but had little control in progressing their manifesto so had in effect, no power. You stated that they were performing poorly whilst being in power over a longer period than Labour, Labour actually have had more time to make positive changes than the SNP but done nothing but wait for their HoL calling.

You're in good company here if you're a doom-mongering unionist.

fwiw I have very little to say that I thought was good about labours time in control of holyrood either.

In fact I can see why people liked the minority snp as I tend to believe things happen in spite of politicians rather than because of them.

The sad thing is given the cult in charge at the moment I almost pine for a return of labour!