Wigan James McLean refuses to wear poppy shirt

[Sheriff Fatman]

Freedom of expression is British values, those trying to force poppy wearing are more anti British than those not wearing them.

[Maroon Sailor]

 

Freedom of exp<b></b>ression is British values, those trying to force poppy wearing are more anti British than those not wearing them.

 

Who has been forced to wear a poppy ?

[jamie1874]

Freedom of exp<b></b>ression is British values, those trying to force poppy wearing are more anti British than those not wearing them.

 

I don't have any problems with him not wearing a poppy or anyone else for that matter.

 

But If his letter said it is because I am pro IRA then it would be a bit closer to the truth rather than the PR written letter than was probably put together by Wigan.

 

 

[Sheriff Fatman]

I don't have any problems with him not wearing a poppy or anyone else for that matter.

 

But If his letter said it is because I am pro IRA then it would be a bit closer to the truth rather than the PR written letter than was probably put together by Wigan.

 

So you know exactly what his reasons are then do you, nice mind reading. Or is is just your opinion based on nothing more than perceived biases.

[Ron Burgundy]

 

 

 

So you know exactly what his reasons are then do you, nice mind reading. Or is is just your opinion based on nothing more than perceived biases.

I don't think you need to be a mind reader. If Anthony Stokes handed in a similar crayon written letter I'm sure it would be for the same genuine reasons given as poor wee james.

[151]

 

I don't think you need to be a mind reader. If Anthony Stokes handed in a similar crayon written letter I'm sure it would be for the same genuine reasons given as poor wee james.

[Sheriff Fatman]

I don't think you need to be a mind reader. If Anthony Stokes handed in a similar crayon written letter I'm sure it would be for the same genuine reasons given as poor wee james.

It really doesn't matter his reasons, he is perfectly entitled to wear or not wear a poppy and it is a stain on the British value of freedom of expression that he even has to put out a letter stating his reasons due to a minority who think that only their narrow view of how people are allowed to think should be tolerated.

[Ron Burgundy]

 

It really doesn't matter his reasons, he is perfectly entitled to wear or not wear a poppy and it is a stain on the British value of freedom of exp<b></b>ression that he even has to put out a letter stating his reasons due to a minority who think that only their narrow view of how people are allowed to think should be tolerated.

It's his view and he's entitled to it. How would you view a player who publicly stated that he didn't want to wear a no to racism t shirt?

[teamof1958]

The point to be made here is that politics have no place in football or any sport for that matter. The poppy appeal is a charity. McLean's action and statement is a blatent attempt to turn the matter political - he should be condemned accordingly. This is not a matter of personal choice, it is something that Wigan Athletic - his employers, want to support. He should simply say that he is injured and shut up.

I would also remind McLean that he plays for a club in a community that was the subject of an IRA bomb atrocity planted in a shopping centre in nearby Warrington.

[Sheriff Fatman]

It's his view and he's entitled to it. How would you view a player who publicly stated that he didn't want to wear a no to racism t shirt?

 

Again that is up to them and they are perfectly entitled to do so. I certainly wouldn't start a thread on the issue, or write a post saying that any letter they wrote was obviously propganda and not their real reason.

[King of the North]

The faux outrage here is ridiculous. Let's assume, as it seems it is now the case, that everybody must wear a poppy or if not have a damn good reason for not wearing one. Are people really struggling to understand why a Derry raised Catholic Irishman may have issues with anything that could be perceived as a celebration of the British army? Are people really that thick?

 

Petty point scoring over a deeply serious issue. Totally inappropriate. Let it go FFS. There are many people and communities in these isles and abroad who have deeply held grievances with Britain, its history and its army. That's fine, that's ok, that's life. If we start to want everyone to conform to one world view and one set of values then we are getting closer and closer to the very thing all those men died fighting against.

 

[Maroon Sailor]

Anybody who perceives it to be a celebration of the British Army is thick as far as I'm concerned

[MacDonald Jardine]

The faux outrage here is ridiculous. Let's assume, as it seems it is now the case, that everybody must wear a poppy or if not have a damn good reason for not wearing one. Are people really struggling to understand why a Derry raised Catholic Irishman may have issues with anything that could be perceived as a celebration of the British army? Are people really that thick?

 

Petty point scoring over a deeply serious issue. Totally inappropriate. Let it go FFS. There are many people and communities in these isles and abroad who have deeply held grievances with Britain, its history and its army. That's fine, that's ok, that's life. If we start to want everyone to conform to one world view and one set of values then we are getting closer and closer to the very thing all those men died fighting against.

 

Not struggling at all. His reasons are perfectly clear. They just happen to be a result of taking a partial view of one particular conflict.

Nobody suggests everyone has to wear a poppy but combining a refusal with clear support for another side doesn't sit well with him earning a living in this imperialist jackboot of a country.

 

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 4

 

 

[OmiyaHearts]

I don't see the issue. I don't wear one but still pop change into the box when I'm in a shop etc.

 

This scene from Seinfeld seems relevant to the attitude of some on this thread.

 

[jamie1874]

 

 

So you know exactly what his reasons are then do you, nice mind reading. Or is is just your opinion based on nothing more than perceived biases.

 

Not at all - as said in previous posts, his previous comment for pro IRA songs say enough about the guy.

 

I have friends from Derry and other places in NI and I am sure many of them won't be wearing a poppy. Which I have absolutely no issue with. The letter from Mclean is what I do have issue with. He has brought the attention to him with this letter rather than him and the club keeping it in house and not making a big deal of it all. And the letter is clearly written by the PR dept at Wigan.

 

 

 

[Sheriff Fatman]

Not at all - as said in previous posts, his previous comment for pro IRA songs say enough about the guy.

 

I have friends from Derry and other places in NI and I am sure many of them won't be wearing a poppy. Which I have absolutely no issue with. The letter from Mclean is what I do have issue with. He has brought the attention to him with this letter rather than him and the club keeping it in house and not making a big deal of it all. And the letter is clearly written by the PR dept at Wigan.

 

No it is not, that is just your opinion.

[Maroon Sailor]

See all the Celtic shirts are without a poppy. Wonder if the players got a choice to have a poppy shirt.

[Paolo]

See all the Celtic shirts are without a poppy. Wonder if the players got a choice to have a poppy shirt.

 

I noticed it, and it is a god question. I suspect no choice was given and that no popular strips were produced.

 

With regards to McLean, he is entitled not to wear one, but if his reasons as are is being discussed on here, it seems odd he is happy to work in the UK, and take Wigan's money. His principles and political beliefs are forgotten when it comes to money, it seems. All my opinion of course, and assuming his reasons are as discussed on here.

[rudi]

 

 

 

I noticed it, and it is a god question. I suspect no choice was given and that no popular strips were produced.

 

With regards to McLean, he is entitled not to wear one, but if his reasons as are is being discussed on here, it seems odd he is happy to work in the UK, and take Wigan's money. His principles and political beliefs are forgotten when it comes to money, it seems. All my opinion of course, and assuming his reasons are as discussed on here.

He works in the UK because he is a UK citizen FFS.

[chuck berrys hairline]

Anybody who perceives it to be a celebration of the British Army is thick as far as I'm concerned

 

Seconded, amazing the amount of people that don't know the history behind the poppy.

[Nixie]

It is a personal choice and his to make.

 

 

I can't agree with the reasons given but he made his case and that is his right.... what he should remember it is because many have sacrificed that he makes a good living in a country he clearly blames for much of the problems in his 'own country'. I would have liked to see him sympathise with the victims on all sides of the Irish confilct or are some of those people he talks about not 'my people' as he puts it. ?

 

If you feel so strongly about the actions of that country then why live in the UK given you disapprove of it so much. I think we all know his principles disappeared when the money came calling so hypocrisy reigns.

He contributes taxes to the very country he blames for much of his countries ills and those taxes go in part to pay for the armed forces so thanks for helping the army and other forces James.

 

Great post.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

 

He works in the UK because he is a UK citizen FFS.

If only he thought that.

[Paolo]

 

He works in the UK because he is a UK citizen FFS.

 

I am aware of that.

[rudi]

Just to clarify one thing this fellow Mclean is a British citizen and not from the RoI although he does play football for them. He is basically protesting against British soldiers killing mostly innocent British citizens during a civil rights protest in 1972 (which the British government have now admitted to), as a British citizen that is his right.

 

And just to make it clear I do not agree with his stance but it bothers me not one jot.

[rudi]

 

 

 

I am aware of that.

So whats your point about him working in the UK, is it a new law that has been introduced that one MUST wear a poppy if your employers tell you to do so?

[MacDonald Jardine]

Just to clarify one thing this fellow Mclean is a British citizen and not from the RoI although he does play football for them. He is basically protesting against British soldiers killing mostly innocent British citizens during a civil rights protest in 1972 (which the British government have now admitted to), as a British citizen that is his right.

 

And just to make it clear I do not agree with his stance but it bothers me not one jot.

 

It is his right. But I didn't agree with the Iraq war. By that definition I shouldn't wear a poppy either.

[MacDonald Jardine]

He works in the UK because he is a UK citizen FFS.

 

But he doesn't want to be presumably.

As someone else posted I suspect the reaction would have been somewhat different had he been Muslim.

[Chester™]

But he doesn't want to be presumably.

As someone else posted I suspect the reaction would have been somewhat different had he been Muslim.

 

Find out what passport he has. That should solve the thorny issue.

[Paolo]

 

So whats your point about him working in the UK, is it a new law that has been introduced that one MUST wear a poppy if your employers tell you to do so?

 

 

 

 

Not what I said. I am merely pointing out, if he thinks what he does, he might want to consider a new employer, or work elsewhere. I am not saying he has to.

 

If he wants to abandon his principles to stay here, and with Wigan, to make more money, then that is his right.

 

I don't object to his decision. His reasonings (if discussed accurately) are questionable, though

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

 

 

Find out what passport he has. That should solve the thorny issue.

Irish.

 

He said so himself when he turned his back on playing for Northern Ireland, despite playing for them since he was a schoolboy.

 

Guy is a prick outside of any poppy issue or non-issue.

[Sheriff Fatman]

Not what I said. I am merely pointing out, if he thinks what he does, he might want to consider a new employer, or work elsewhere. I am not saying he has to.

 

If he wants to abandon his principles to stay here, and with Wigan, to make more money, then that is his right.

 

I don't object to his decision. His reasonings (if discussed accurately) are questionable, though

 

Why? His employer has absolutely zero to do with the principle of wearing a poppy or not. Being born in Britain and the right that gives to work here is all the permission he needs.

 

His reasoning is his and not questionable in the slightest, you don't get to decide what reasons a person is allowed to use when making their own decision.

[Chester™]

Where he works and takes a wage is spurious argument. Plenty people work in areas or countries that they dont like or want to, but take the job to get a wage and pay the bills.

 

Should everyone who disagrees with how the Government go about certain things just simply up sticks and go somewhere else?

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

 

 

Why? His employer has absolutely zero to do with the principle of wearing a poppy or not. Being born in Britain and the right that gives to work here is all the permission he needs.

 

His reasoning is his and not questionable in the slightest, you don't get to decide what reasons a person is allowed to use when making their own decision.

I agree with this.

 

Hypothetically, I would love to see his stance on the remembrance service at Haymarket if he was a Hearts player. That IS different as he is expected, as an emoloyee, to be there.

[Paolo]

 

 

Why? His employer has absolutely zero to do with the principle of wearing a poppy or not. Being born in Britain and the right that gives to work here is all the permission he needs.

 

His reasoning is his and not questionable in the slightest, you don't get to decide what reasons a person is allowed to use when making their own decision.

 

You are correct. I don't. And I am not. I just think he is going against his reasoning. I am entitled to my view, too.

 

He would have better not saying anything, and keep his reasons private, which of course, is also his right.

[Paolo]

 

I agree with this.

 

Hypothetically, I would love to see his stance on the remembrance service at Haymarket if he was a Hearts player. That IS different as he is expected, as an emoloyee, to be there.

 

Interesting point. If he played for us, and refused to attend, what would be the fans' resapnsw, too?

[MacDonald Jardine]

Where he works and takes a wage is spurious argument. Plenty people work in areas or countries that they dont like or want to, but take the job to get a wage and pay the bills.

 

Should everyone who disagrees with how the Government go about certain things just simply up sticks and go somewhere else?

 

It isn't just disagreeing with the government about certain things though. It's more fundamental than that.

[mitch41]

With a tidal wave of "poppy fascism" levelled against him? I salute his courage.

 

I wear a poppy. That's my choice, he's made his and like it or not the weight of British opinion is against him, yet he stands up to it and gives an explanation as to why he wont that on the face of it, can be taken as sobering and reasonable.

 

If only most others were like him.

Spot on.

[Chester™]

It isn't just disagreeing with the government about certain things though. It's more fundamental than that.

 

Is it really? Im not sure it particularly is.

[micole]

The faux outrage here is ridiculous. Let's assume, as it seems it is now the case, that everybody must wear a poppy or if not have a damn good reason for not wearing one. Are people really struggling to understand why a Derry raised Catholic Irishman may have issues with anything that could be perceived as a celebration of the British army? Are people really that thick?

 

Petty point scoring over a deeply serious issue. Totally inappropriate. Let it go FFS. There are many people and communities in these isles and abroad who have deeply held grievances with Britain, its history and its army. That's fine, that's ok, that's life. If we start to want everyone to conform to one world view and one set of values then we are getting closer and closer to the very thing all those men died fighting against.

Very much this!!

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

Good, Celtic game over, 11am come and gone, can we put the horrific abomination that is Poppy Watch to bed for another year? Remembrance Day - yet another thing football and the moronic twats that run, play and watch it have ruined.

[GlasgoJambo]

This thread is Poppycock.

[Creepy Lurker]

Anyone else read things on here and think 'surely the poster in question can't be stupid enough to think that that's a valid opinion?'

 

'He's entitled to not wear a poppy, but he's obviously a bigot. I have no evidence for this, and his letter suggests otherwise, but it's just a pack of lies. He's a bigot anyway because I said so'.

 

'He's a hypocrite for working for a British company that isn't affiliated to the army or government when he opposes army and government policies. He should refuse the money of all private companies from the UK'.

 

'Argentinian players agreed to wear a poppy so he should do the same.'

 

:cornette:

[The Real Maroonblood]

What an amazing thread.

[2NaFish]

Anyone else read things on here and think 'surely the poster in question can't be stupid enough to think that that's a valid opinion?'

 

'He's entitled to not wear a poppy, but he's obviously a bigot. I have no evidence for this, and his letter suggests otherwise, but it's just a pack of lies. He's a bigot anyway because I said so'.

 

'He's a hypocrite for working for a British company that isn't affiliated to the army or government when he opposes army and government policies. He should refuse the money of all private companies from the UK'.

 

'Argentinian players agreed to wear a poppy so he should do the same.'

 

:cornette:

 

Just to raise the stakes, can i add that when these things are pointed out the retort is that you must surely be trolling to have pointed out the various logical gaps.

 

[monteddie]

Send him back to play in the league of Ireland sick and tired of the complete disrespect of our Veterans by folks from that isle.

[invernessjt]

The amount of dicks that show themselves at poppy-wearing time is getting beyond belief!!

[Maroon Sailor]

 

The amount of dicks that show themselves at poppy-wearing time is getting beyond belief!!

 

None bigger than James McClean

[invernessjt]

 

 

 

None bigger than James McClean

And those that react to him and give him such press.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Anyone else read things on here and think 'surely the poster in question can't be stupid enough to think that that's a valid opinion?'

 

'He's entitled to not wear a poppy, but he's obviously a bigot. I have no evidence for this, and his letter suggests otherwise, but it's just a pack of lies. He's a bigot anyway because I said so'.

 

'He's a hypocrite for working for a British company that isn't affiliated to the army or government when he opposes army and government policies. He should refuse the money of all private companies from the UK'.

 

'Argentinian players agreed to wear a poppy so he should do the same.'

 

:cornette:

There's plenty of evidence of him being a bigot. All you have to do is use Google to see the previous stories.

[Ortarkod]

Just to raise the stakes, can i add that when these things are pointed out the retort is that you must surely be trolling to have pointed out the various logical gaps.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__HBBf_eDLM

^Coolest phrase in the English language btw