rudi Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 So he 'takes part' in the silence? Why not also 'take part' in wearing the kit your club that pays your wages deems appropriate for that club? There is a massive difference in "taking part" of a minutes silence and simply shutting your gob for 60 seconds, tell me have "taken part" in every minutes silence that have been held at games you have attended regardless who or what it was for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deevers Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Absolute storm in a teacup all of this. Don't agree with him, but hey ho that's what he wants to do, then why give him the oxygen of publicity. He's best ignored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moogsy Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Examples of Scotland?s War Losses At Loos, on September 25, 1915, 36 of the 72 attacking battalions were Scottish and of the 12 participating battalions which suffered more than 500 casualties, eight were Scottish. At the Battle of Arras, on April 9, 1917, the Official History noted that 44 of the 120 infantry battalions committed (36.6%) were Scottish (12 each in 15th and 51st Divisions); nine, including the South African Scottish in the 9th; six, including four Tyneside Scottish in the 34th; three in the 3rd; one in the 30th and 1/1 London Scottish in the 56th. Removing the Tynesiders, South Africans and London Scottish, all of which may not have had a majority of Scots, the remaining 39 Scottish battalions represents 32.5% of the attacking force. Like all the UK's good Western Front assault divisions, 9th (Scottish), 15th (Scottish) and 51st (Highland) were deployed in crucial attacks more often than less competent divisions. Their war's end casualties reflected this. The 52nd (Lowland) served in the Middle East and, latterly, France. One battle a war does not make. http://scottishmilitary.blogspot.co.uk/2014/07/celebrating-scotlands-disproportionate.html?m=1 http://m.scotsman.com/lifestyle/heritage/great-war-worst-for-scots-troops-a-myth-1-3504582 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Beni of Gorgie Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Simply, of all weeks, this is a time to respect other peoples views, and to act with dignity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nucky Thompson Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 What a shit excuse, just because he's from a staunch republican, bigoted area. He is taking big bucks out of the English game, he should respect the country and cultures he is working in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cairneyhill Jambo Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 I've not worn a poppy in years. As said in other threads, Armistice day is becoming more of a victory parade rather than remembrance of all those that have fallen in wars, not just British soldiers. Sometimes, I find the "British we won the war" attitude cringeworthy. That's not to say I don't appreciate our armed forces and what they do. I'll be wearing my McCraes Battalion badge with pride tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djf Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 All this obligatory and structured pish really risks devaluing the silently dignified shows of remembrance that will take place across the country from all sections of society. Mandated shows of respect mean little and those who wish not to be involved shouldn't need to explain themselves. It's unlikely that any two people in Tynecastle this weekend during the silence will share the same thought process or emotion and for me that's exactly how remembrance should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory House M.D. Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 With hindsight I doubt if many poppy wearers are proud of what was done to Dresden. But as others have pointed out, what is acceptable is a product of its time. In any event I'm pretty sure he doesn't condone the Dresden bombing either Dresden wasn't acceptable in any time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJGJ Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Wigan down 3-1 at present on Sky Sports 1 with McClean on as sub. Lennon is turning things round at Bolton it would appear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobNox Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 I've not worn a poppy in years. As said in other threads, Armistice day is becoming more of a victory parade rather than remembrance of all those that have fallen in wars, not just British soldiers. Sometimes, I find the "British we won the war" attitude cringeworthy. That's not to say I don't appreciate our armed forces and what they do. I'll be wearing my McCraes Battalion badge with pride tomorrow. Excellent post. For me, Remembrance Day is not just about British soldiers who made the ultimate sacrifice, it's about the many millions of young men across Europe whose lives were wasted in a needless war, regardless of which side of the divide they were fighting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory House M.D. Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Did he say he supported the soldiers (actually they would be airmen) who took part in the Dresden bombing? And by wearing a poppy, are you condoning the Dresden bombing? What he said was that he mourned the deaths of both WW1 and WW2 conflicts, but for his own reasons, cannot accept the poppy symbol. I can accept that, but would rather he came out with his own way of showing respect, perhaps wearing a black armband. Yes, he did. Given his explanation for not wearing a poppy. Or are the deaths of innocents more meaningful because of your country? He's a brainwashed man. Like it or not. His explanation is nationality/locality based because of what he was told. Those are the facts. I'd respect him infinitely if he said it was because of wars and acts being glorified but he chose to highlight that incident. I'd bet he knows nothing of Dresden or any other atrocity, but he's mentioned The Great War and WW2 to give his opinion more weight with the uneducated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobNox Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Dresden wasn't acceptable in any time. I will agree with you wholeheartedly on this comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Of The Cat Cafe Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 James McClean has a particular mindset in regard to the poppy, and it is one shared by many people in Ireland, North and South. Many people on here may not like what he is saying, but he is being true to his conscience. It is just a pity that something that was supposed to be a simple memorial has been so politicised by so many for so long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gambo Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Can I make it clear, I have no problem with people's personal choice to wear/not wear the poppy. But for someone like McLean who thinks so strongly on this matter to sign for a club who are known to adorn the poppy on their shirt at this time of year and then to spit the dummy out and write a letter do sent sit right with me. S others have said they work for companies who support the poppy but don't make every employee wear one to work, unfortunately McLean decided to be employed by a company who for one game a year have made it well known that the players kit for that day will have a poppy adorned on it. McLean makes it an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davieholt Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Dresden wasn't acceptable in any time. And neither were Hiroshima or Nagasaki but in war horrific decisions must be made. They wouldn't have been the decisions I would have made but I understand the logic of forcing a swift end to conflict. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nucky Thompson Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Has there been a German player in British football who has ever refused to wear his teams poppy shirt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJGJ Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Getting booed roundly by the Bolton fans whenever he touches the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invernessjt Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Why does anyone have to justify themselves for not wearing a poppy? Every year football fans become dicks over poppies. Totally laughable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobNox Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Yes, he did. Given his explanation for not wearing a poppy. But I'll continue to disagree on this point! Mourning the deaths of soldiers in a conflict does not equate to condoning the activities they took part in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory House M.D. Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 But I'll continue to disagree on this point! Mourning the deaths of soldiers in a conflict does not equate to condoning the activities they took part in. That is MY point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzzbomb Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Before he signed for Wigan he should have asked if they would be wearing poppies on their shirt. At that point, he should have declined the contract offer due to his principles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister T Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 If he doesn't want to wear a poppy, he could always wear a white feather. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fabienleclerq Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 James McLean is a bigoted arsehole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2NaFish Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 What a shit excuse, just because he's from a staunch republican, bigoted area. He is taking big bucks out of the English game, he should respect the country and cultures he is working in That would be a culture or toleration and freedom of personal expression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudi Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Has there been a German player in British football who has ever refused to wear his teams poppy shirt? Did British soldiers open fire on a civil rights march killing 26 people in the process in Germany, that day like it or not is a huge black mark against our service men, you can argue all day who was present or not at that march but it is now widely known that our army was at fault for those killings of mostly innocent British civilians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobNox Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 That is MY point. Is it? If so, you aren't making a very coherent argument. You bring up the subject of Dresden in a topic about James McLean and suggest that because he states that he mourns the deaths of soldiers that lost their lives in both world wars, he somehow condones the bombing of Dresden. Then when I say that mourning the deaths of soldiers doesn't mean you condone what they did, you tell me that was YOUR point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigC Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Some people on this thread: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fly the Saltire Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 If he doesn't want to wear a poppy, he could always wear a white feather. My great grandfather was gassed in WW1 while serving in Royal Scots and according to my grandfather never wore a poppy as he thought it was a pointless gesture despite losing many friends and colleagues so that proves it is a personal decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Ireland`s supposed "neutrality" in WW2 made it difficult for Britain. Claiming neutrality was a tactic to get at Britain in a more stealthy manner. German U boats hid in coves around the coast unchallenged while the Irish tried to make themselves look good by being neutral aye? Churchill saw the bigger, a much bigger picture than the Irish could see and proposed some sort of deal/truce with Ireland in return for military help. They of course refused. Churchill offered Northern Ireland to de Valera in 1940 in return for Eire declaring for the Allies. That wasn't bigger picture, it was desperate. As for McClean, I'd have more respect for him if he didn't sympathise with the murdering barstewards who blew up innocent people on Remembrance Sunday 1987 in Enniskillen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr-sad Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Where is this "Derry" that McLean speaks of? I always thought that the Bogside was in NI's 2nd city that's called Londonderry. No amount of spray-painting over the London on roadsigns will ever change that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taffin Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Is it? If so, you aren't making a very coherent argument. You bring up the subject of Dresden in a topic about James McLean and suggest that because he states that he mourns the deaths of soldiers that lost their lives in both world wars, he somehow condones the bombing of Dresden. Then when I say that mourning the deaths of soldiers doesn't mean you condone what they did, you tell me that was YOUR point. Tbf it was pretty clear what his point was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory House M.D. Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Is it? If so, you aren't making a very coherent argument. You bring up the subject of Dresden in a topic about James McLean and suggest that because he states that he mourns the deaths of soldiers that lost their lives in both world wars, he somehow condones the bombing of Dresden. Then when I say that mourning the deaths of soldiers doesn't mean you condone what they did, you tell me that was YOUR point. Read your own comment. I couldn't put it simpler myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ortarkod Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 What the **** does Dresden have to do with anything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory House M.D. Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Actually, I could put it better. "Condoning the actions SOME took part in". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firefox Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Political & sectarian point scoring. As others have said, everyone has the right to choose whether or not to wear a poppy and many choose not to without the need to explain their reasons. He might just as well have said " I refuse to wear the poppy because I'm an Irish Roman Catholic Republican and I hate British Proddies and all they stand for" because that effectively is what he's saying. The events of Bloody Sunday have as much relevance as the events of Omah or any of the other attrocities that were carried out by pro republican terrorists. This is a festival of remembrance for people who gave their lives in two world wars, an act that deserves everyones respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jai Cee Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 He works and receives a handsome wage in Britain. Show some respect you ****. Are we going to have to read about this cretin every year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walks2 Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 There is big problems with compulsory poppy football tops and all the rest of it. He shouldn't even have to explain himself or be put in this position. Remembrance Sunday is an emotive, sobering day when we remember the fallen, but i'm thoroughly sick of the 3 week poppy fever and all the "controversies" that appear on an annual basis. 3 week poppy fever? You need to take your intellectual arse back to school. Some of the crap you write on KB is cringeworthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niblick1874 Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 I think I will reserve my disdain for the warmongers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr-sad Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Political & sectarian point scoring. As others have said, everyone has the right to choose whether or not to wear a poppy and many choose not to without the need to explain their reasons. He might just as well have said " I refuse to wear the poppy because I'm an Irish Roman Catholic Republican and I hate British Proddies and all they stand for" because that effectively is what he's saying. The events of Bloody Sunday have as much relevance as the events of Omah or any of the other attrocities that were carried out by pro republican terrorists. This is a festival of remembrance for people who gave their lives in two world wars, an act that deserves everyones respect. I think its actually for all British soldiers who lost their lives in all conflicts since the start of WW1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheriff Fatman Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 And? The whole point of the wars we were involved in in the 20th century was to give people freedom of expression, not to tell people how to think. If you don't like how people use that freedom of expression, that says more about you than them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cairneyhill Jambo Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Excellent post. For me, Remembrance Day is not just about British soldiers who made the ultimate sacrifice, it's about the many millions of young men across Europe whose lives were wasted in a needless war, regardless of which side of the divide they were fighting. Exactly. Its cringeworthy that we even celebrate VE day. This sums it up. For those that love England flags and union jacks fill your boots. Don't see many other flags of countries that were involved in WW2 on show. Katie Melua - The White Cliffs Of Dover & Stardust: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allowayjambo1874 Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Have to say that this is a tricky one. Yes no-one should be made to wear a poppy if they don't want to but by the same token he is representing a club who is honouring the men who fought and died particularly I suspect from the local area. As someone said earlier not a single German that plays in UK has ever taken this stance. Just out of interest what would the reaction be if Alim Ozturk wrote a letter explaining that due to the Gallipoli campaign and the loss of Turkish lives at the hands of the UK/Commonwealth forces in WW1 that he did not want to attend the remembrance on Sunday as it made him feel uncomfortable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr-sad Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 3 week poppy fever? You need to take your intellectual arse back to school. Some of the crap you write on KB is cringeworthy. 3 weeks is actually the old way of wearing them, Remembrance week and the week before and after. I know 2 people that keep up this custom, my old man (88) and an old guy by the name of Reilly from Galway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheriff Fatman Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 I think its actually for all British soldiers who lost their lives in all conflicts since the start of WW1. I think you'll find it is for all allied soldiers, British, or not (and quite a few who actually faught in the wars use it to remember any soldier who lost their lives due to politicians playing games). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gspot Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Gerry Adams helped him pen that excuse Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr-sad Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 I think you'll find it is for all allied soldiers, British, or not (and quite a few who actually faught in the wars use it to remember any soldier who lost their lives due to politicians playing games). Sorry, I stand corrected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego10 Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 I personally use a poppy to remember all those killed needlessly in wars, be they British or foreign, military or civilian. Whether that's their official symbolism I don't care. I totally understand why for McLean it symbolises something else and he's well within his rights not to wear it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest C00l K1d Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 That is MY point. Where he comes from the poppy is seen as a different symbol than what we see it as. It's comparable to how folk see the UJ. Down in England its a symbol for pride and all that shit but many people up here associate it with fear, thuggery, violence etc. He shouldn't have to justify himself, it's a pretty personal thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr-sad Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 As an aside, I might be wearing a poppy tomorrow! Might not be cos I've lost 2 already, those wee sticky yins are shite, bring back the pins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niblick1874 Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 I think you'll find it is for all allied soldiers, British, or not (and quite a few who actually faught in the wars use it to remember any soldier who lost their lives due to politicians playing games). I am one of those, I even think of the ones on the other side, however I would rather use somthing a lot stronger than playing games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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