Wigan James McLean refuses to wear poppy shirt

[pablo]

Why would you want him to wear one or force him to? He would have supported the other side. I really don't like this time of year now. A lot of people seem to lose the plot. Personally, It's a bit of a relief when it's all over for another year.

[chuck berrys hairline]

Stupid *****! The poppy also remembers the fallen irish who volunteered for the war. Or does he forget that? I wear mine to remember all that fell no matter of race, nationality or religion.

[jambali]

I won't be wearing a poppy this year and didn't last year. Why? Because although I respect those who gave their lives in the wars, I don't like the fact that the poppy seems to have been appropriated as part of the paraphernalia of an increasingly sinister ideology of 'patriotism' being forced upon us by the state.

 

Poppy fascism was almost funny at first, but it's taken an increasingly creepy turn. Remembrance when I was growing up always seemed like a dignified, understated thing. Increasingly it's become an aggressive, jingoistic attempt to out-respect each other.

 

This.

 

I had to step in a couple of years ago to stop three guys bullying a younger one for not wearing a poppy. Sad.

[jambali]

Especially as it was outside Tynie after a match.

[graygo]

I will no doubt shed a tear at the game today but I've just turned the tv on and there is some big do in London on just now with floats parading through the streets and ticker tape ffs.

 

See if it ever gets like that up here I'm out.

[graygo]

I will no doubt shed a tear at the game today but I've just turned the tv on and there is some big do in London on just now with floats parading through the streets and ticker tape ffs.

 

See if it ever gets like that up here I'm out.

 

I might have to eat some humble pie on this, it's the Lord Mayors Show. Not sure if that's related tbh.

[On my Lunch]

As many others have said the decision to buy a poppy is personal and everyone has the right to choose to buy and wear one or not. I respect their choice and if James McLean does not want to wear one that is his prerogative. To protect that right of choice is after all one of the reasons the second world war was fought.

 

What disappoints me is he has attached his own representation to the poppy to him it represents the British Army and is not a symbol to respect all those you have fallen in all wars of all nationalities and religions.

[XB52]

As others said this is becoming like a flag debate. Wear a poppy, don't wear a poppy, your choice end of story.

[Rods]

There is two sides to every coin I can see where he is coming from but also he is taking the money from people who's family potentially were involved in that massacre. He should suck it up and wear the poppy. Bet the wee rat is not complaining when he is cutting about in a Porsche.

[The Don]

More than happy to live here and take the Brittish pound in his pay packet each week/month.., yet equally happy to hate that same country.

 

Holyhead isn't to far a journey from Wigan where they have nice ferries to his beloved Ireland.

 

 

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

 

 

I might have to eat some humble pie on this, it's the Lord Mayors Show. Not sure if that's related tbh.

Not related at all. Enjoy the pie!

[Nookie Bear]

 

I won't be wearing a poppy this year and didn't last year. Why? Because although I respect those who gave their lives in the wars, I don't like the fact that the poppy seems to have been appropriated as part of the paraphernalia of an increasingly sinister ideology of 'patriotism' being forced upon us by the state.

 

Poppy fascism was almost funny at first, but it's taken an increasingly creepy turn. Remembrance when I was growing up always seemed like a dignified, understated thing. Increasingly it's become an aggressive, jingoistic attempt to out-respect each other.

 

Spot on.

[2NaFish]

More than happy to live here and take the Brittish pound in his pay packet each week/month.., yet equally happy to hate that same country.

 

Holyhead isn't to far a journey from Wigan where they have nice ferries to his beloved Ireland.

 

What makes you think he hates the U.K.?

 

Because when i read it i noticed this, "I am not a war monger, or anti-British, or a terrorist or any of the accusations levelled at me in the past." Did i miss something?

[Broxburn Jambo]

If it takes a a bit of plastic and some paper to remember, are you really remembering?

You are the guy that is breaking the war dead into percentages, a lot of the fallen were volunteers and should be honoured and remembered and the poppy is a tried and tested way of showing that, not a way of making a political point.

[269miles]

Wearing a poppy doesn't defend the British army's criminal acts in N Ireland , of which there are many. Wearing a poppy is to remember the dead who fought to give us the freedoms we - and Mclean - have today. McLean will be perfectly aware of this, A pity he has to use his feigned ignorance to points score at a time like this. I genuinely feel sorry for him, permanently stuck in the past.

[i wish jj was my dad]

Stupid *****! The poppy also remembers the fallen irish who volunteered for the war. Or does he forget that? I wear mine to remember all that fell no matter of race, nationality or religion.

 

Spot on.

 

Wars, bullets and bombs don't discriminate by religion, politics or culture.

 

If it wasn't for the people we are remembering he wouldn't have the opportunity to express his misguided views.

[Creepy Lurker]

 

Sorry, silly me, I thought this was a thread about remembering the war dead not human rights issues.

 

You're right Russia's human rights record is terrible but name a country that's squeaky clean.

 

I was also suggesting that there's little dignity in the way children in need represents charitable giving. A whole night of tv taken up by over paid hysterical celebrities telling us to phone in with donations... I think you missed my point too. And before anyone says it, yes I do turn it off.

 

You made it into a question of human rights issues by introducing the question of 'what would they do in Russia?'

 

The answer is that they'd probably somehow persecute the non-wearer. Which is a human rights issue.

 

There's no analogy here with Children in Need because Children in Need doesn't involve criticism, verging on abuse, of those who choose not to become involved with it.

 

If you can't understand these points, I may be wasting my time here.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Fair enough. Very reasonable explanation

[Sheriff Fatman]

You are the guy that is breaking the war dead into percentages, a lot of the fallen were volunteers and should be honoured and remembered and the poppy is a tried and tested way of showing that, not a way of making a political point.

 

Were?

 

I was the one that stated that remembrance is inclusive of all by many of them that actually faught in the wars. It is usually those that get their facts second hand that seem to think that wearing a poppy should be mandatory.

 

Personally I am quite capable of remembering those that fought without having to wear a bit of plastic and some paper

[letsalllaughathobos]

Some of the comments on this thread are a embarrassment to the war dead on all sides,

This should really be closed and deleted,

As a ex soldier who fought for some of these folk and a few friends died for these folk hang your heads in shame,

 

[Guest Trapper John]

It's sad that the hatred of centuries continues to be passed on down to those who seem happy to embrace it though they are now of a generation that has grown up in a time of (relative) peace.

 

Instead of trying to move on as I am sure many of those do on both sides in Ireland, there will be those who just can't or more likely, won't.

 

Thank God these types now appear to be in the minority. On all sides.

[michael_bolton]

Some of the comments on this thread are a embarrassment to the war dead on all sides,

This should really be closed and deleted,

As a ex soldier who fought for some of these folk and a few friends died for these folk hang your heads in shame,

 

No offence, but the fact that you are an ex-soldier adds no more weight to your opinion on this as opposed to anybody else's.

[Guest Trapper John]

Some of the comments on this thread are a embarrassment to the war dead on all sides,

This should really be closed and deleted,

As a ex soldier who fought for some of these folk and a few friends died for these folk hang your heads in shame,

 

Well said, mate.

 

Embarassing some of the drivel people spout.

[Guest Trapper John]

No offence, but the fact that you are an ex-soldier adds no more weight to your opinion on this as opposed to anybody else's.

 

As opposed to you who obviously have not had this man's experience.

 

I would say he is a better judge of what should be done to remember the dead than you.

[michael_bolton]

As opposed to you who obviously have not had this man's experience.

 

I would say he is a better judge of what should be done to remember the dead than you.

 

I'd say that's complete nonsense. I'm not claiming to have any more of a valid opinion than him. His status as ex (or even current) military does not mean he's automatically right about this. There's no logic to claiming so.

[FORTHCLYDE]

Celtic footballer William Angus won the VC during WWI and 7 other Celtic players died.

What is James Mclean's view of them?

Over 200,000 Irishmen fought in the Great War 49,000 died

Has he no respect for them?

[Mister T]

 

 

You made it into a question of human rights issues by introducing the question of 'what would they do in Russia?'

 

The answer is that they'd probably somehow persecute the non-wearer. Which is a human rights issue.

 

There's no analogy here with Children in Need because Children in Need doesn't involve criticism, verging on abuse, of those who choose not to become involved with it.

 

If you can't understand these points, I may be wasting my time here.

Not a question of understanding. Differing opinion and you're entitled to yours, doesn't make you right. Or indeed me.

[scots civil war]

No offence, but the fact that you are an ex-soldier adds no more weight to your opinion on this as opposed to anybody else's.

 

you have got to be ******* joking yeah,dear oh ******* dear

 

lets get you into the frontline and see how you fare

[alwaysthereinspirit]

His issue seems to be the Rememberance of British soldiers murdered in Northern Ireland, Eire, Holland, England or any other place between 1969 and mid 90's connected to the "troubles"

[2NaFish]

 

Celtic footballer William Angus won the VC during WWI and 7 other Celtic players died.

What is James Mclean's view of them?

Over 200,000 Irishmen fought in the Great War 49,000 died

Has he no respect for them?

 

if only had given some sort of answer to your question.

 

 

 

oh wait ' I have complete respect for those who fought and died in both

World Wars - many I know were Irish-born'

[michael_bolton]

you have got to be ******* joking yeah,dear oh ******* dear

 

lets get you into the frontline and see how you fare

 

You've completely missed the point.

 

This is not a comparison of military experience or bravery. This is a discussion on what is appropriate for Remembrance.

 

A soldier (or ex-soldier) has no more valid an opinion on this than anybody else.

[cosanostra]

Why would anyone give a toss if another grown adult wears a poppy or not?

Remembrance is a personal state of mind so do what you like and allow others to do the same.

[rossthejambo]

 

 

 

if only had given some sort of answer to your question.

 

 

 

oh wait ' I have complete respect for those who fought and died in both

World Wars - many I know were Irish-born'

 

It's almost like people don't care what he said, the fact he's said he's not wearing a poppy has folk blinded by rage it would seem.

 

[Rods]

 

Why would anyone give a toss if another grown adult wears a poppy or not?

Remembrance is a personal state of mind so do what you like and allow others to do the same.

 

I agree about the personal thing.

 

Why did he feel the need to write the letter then for me he was making a statement to what end I am sure it's for his own benefit and feel he should be vilified for that and not for choosing to wear a poppy. Like I said earlier a bigger statement would be not to accept money from British employers for his so called cause.

[michael_bolton]

I agree about the personal thing.

 

Why did he feel the need to write the letter then for me he was making a statement to what end I am sure it's for his own benefit and feel he should be vilified for that and not for choosing to wear a poppy. Like I said earlier a bigger statement would be not to accept money from British employers for his so called cause.

 

Why on earth should he forfeit wages for holding an opinion? I have no idea how you could possibly have arrived at that conclusion.

[2NaFish]

 

 

It's almost like people don't care what he said, the fact he's said he's not wearing a poppy has folk blinded by rage it would seem.

 

and it's that rage which means I won't wear a poppy. Although I'll happily donate and pay respects because its a good cause. But it has led to an unhealthy reactionary movement.

[scots civil war]

` This is a discussion on what is appropriate for Remembrance.

 

A soldier (or ex-soldier) has no more valid an opinion on this than anybody else.`

[michael_bolton]

` This is a discussion on what is appropriate for Remembrance.

 

A soldier (or ex-soldier) has no more valid an opinion on this than anybody else.`

 

Correct. What makes you disagree?

[Sten Guns]

Entitled to his opinion. Entitled to not wear one.

 

Anyone who doesn't undersand or accept that is an arsehole.

[Taffin]

 

 

Correct. What makes you disagree?

 

Got to agree with you on that. Everyone's opinion is equal. My opinion is that McLeans logic is flawed but he is more than entitled to that opinion. My opinion is no more valid than his and no less valid than ex or current military personnel.

 

People need to accept that someone can be criticised without it being an attempt to deny them their opinion.

 

Remembrance is personal to all and we should be allowed to mark our respect or not however we see fit. That doesn't exempt us from others criticising ouour actions or beliefs though.

[Rods]

 

 

 

Why on earth should he forfeit wages for holding an opinion? I have no idea how you could possibly have arrived at that conclusion.

 

He is trying to claim he is not wearing the poppy due to it's significance. Yet he will accept the queens pound the same pound that paid the soldiers he disrespects. Clearly he is trying to make a name for himself from the back of this and that is what morally wrong with this situation.

[michael_bolton]

He is trying to claim he is not wearing the poppy due to it's significance. Yet he will accept the queens pound the same pound that paid the soldiers he disrespects. Clearly he is trying to make a name for himself from the back of this and that is what morally wrong with this situation.

 

I'm speechless. That's one of the most ridiculous points of view I've ever read.

[way out west jambo]

why does football or sport in general need to have anything to do with rememberence day? If people want to pay their respects there is plenty of services and gatherings all over the place. I'll pay my respect by wearing a poppy and doing a 2 minute silence on rememberence day with everyone else, but why force it on people who are going to watch a football match?

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Celtic footballer William Angus won the VC during WWI and 7 other Celtic players died.

What is James Mclean's view of them?

Over 200,000 Irishmen fought in the Great War 49,000 died

Has he no respect for them?

 

He's answered that question - in spades. Read the letter, digest what he's saying.

 

If you understand the point of the poppy and the symbolism of the poppy - really understand it - then you should know why some people wear it and accept the fact that others don't want to.

[cosanostra]

 

 

 

 

He is trying to claim he is not wearing the poppy due to it's significance. Yet he will accept the queens pound the same pound that paid the soldiers he disrespects. Clearly he is trying to make a name for himself from the back of this and that is what morally wrong with this situation.

 

That's just ridiculous. Sorry, but your logic is silly.

Should he work for free and not support his family?

If someone offered you a wad of US dollars would you refuse them because George Washington kept slaves?

[MacDonald Jardine]

 

 

Exactly. Its cringeworthy that we even celebrate VE day.

 

This sums it up. For those that love England flags and union jacks fill your boots. Don't see many other flags of countries that were involved in WW2 on show.

 

Katie Melua - The White Cliffs Of Dover & Stardust:

 

It has nothing to do with England or their flags.

Supporting our armed forces doesnt make you English or even an English wannabe.

[MacDonald Jardine]

There is two sides to every coin I can see where he is coming from but also he is taking the money from people who's family potentially were involved in that massacre. He should suck it up and wear the poppy. Bet the wee rat is not complaining when he is cutting about in a Porsche.

 

I'll bet he also knows people who have been involved in other massacres, being a Bogside lad and all.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

 

 

What makes you think he hates the U.K.?

 

Because when i read it i noticed this, "I am not a war monger, or anti-British, or a terrorist or any of the accusations levelled at me in the past." Did i miss something?

He certainly hates the country within the UK that he was born in!

[Rods]

 

 

 

That's just ridiculous. Sorry, but your logic is silly.

Should he work for free and not support his family?

If someone offered you a wad of US dollars would you refuse them because George Washington kept slaves?

 

No of course not but I am not claiming to have these principles

 

Where do his principles stop he is clearly picking and choosing that for me is the sign of glory hunting rather than principles it smacks of look at me I am not wearing a poppy for this reason.

 

Frankly the support for this is just as appalling. Giving this blatant troller the oxygen it does no befit a day when we remember those who gave so much.

[michael_bolton]

No of course not but I am not claiming to have these principles

 

Where do his principles stop he is clearly picking and choosing that for me is the sign of glory hunting rather than principles it smacks of look at me I am not wearing a poppy for this reason.

 

Frankly the support for this is just as appalling. Giving this blatant troller the oxygen it does no befit a day when we remember those who gave so much.

 

You're making no sense whatsoever.