The Real Maroonblood Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 fair play as others say it his own decision. Whether I agree with it or not doesn't matter, I can only decide whether I wear a poppy or not. Agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cliffdanum Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 His reasons are total crap...he is an irrelevant human being...he is using the symbol of the poppy and what the British legion stands for...remembrance of the sacrifice...help and support of those who served and there families and trying to turn it into a polictical statement and anti british stance....he is scum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Internet Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 If he doesn't want to wear a poppy that is his prerogative - why he has to make a big song and dance about not wearing it is beyond me. I am sure if he just never wore one this year and in previous years nobody would have even noticed and he could have went on quietly about his business. I think he did do that about 4 years ago but someone picked up on it and we've had this big thing about it every year since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Loblaw Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Wigan sub doesn't wear a poppy for personal reasons. Late contender for story of the year IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fly the Saltire Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 The First World War was nothing to do with freedom of speech the second world war was justified but only came about because of the folly of those who drew up a disastrous peace settlement in 1919 which still has ramifications in the Middle East. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BudgeUp Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 For James McLean personally this is the right decision, it's personal. However, if, for example, he was to state his refusal to wear it was because he was, personally, a Nazi, would so many on here be understanding? It's still a slap in the face of the country in which he is employed, regardless of reasoning. FWIW Ireland is a bambscare and don't want to delve into it but I don't think there was a "good side" or a "bad side." There was your side and their side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJGJ Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 It is a personal choice and his to make. I can't agree with the reasons given but he made his case and that is his right.... what he should remember it is because many have sacrificed that he makes a good living in a country he clearly blames for much of the problems in his 'own country'. I would have liked to see him sympathise with the victims on all sides of the Irish confilct or are some of those people he talks about not 'my people' as he puts it. ? If you feel so strongly about the actions of that country then why live in the UK given you disapprove of it so much. I think we all know his principles disappeared when the money came calling so hypocrisy reigns. He contributes taxes to the very country he blames for much of his countries ills and those taxes go in part to pay for the armed forces so thanks for helping the army and other forces James. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weekend offender Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 I don't give a monkeys where he is from. He could be from Barnton and I wouldn't care. He is an adult that has made a choice not to wear a symbol. He's entitled to make that choice. lol I'm not critising him,I have spent a lot ot time in the areas hes talking about and I just wanted to explain how the Army are viewed in theses areas.So I dont see why your giving it the I dont care bla bla bla stuff.People in these areas arent entitled to make these choices or they would have to leave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special Agent Dale Cooper Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 His reasons are total crap...he is an irrelevant human being...he is using the symbol of the poppy and what the British legion stands for...remembrance of the sacrifice...help and support of those who served and there families and trying to turn it into a polictical statement and anti british stance....he is scum. A wee bit extreme. He has his reasons, I wouldn't wear a symbol I didn't agree with, whether my employer willed it or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobNox Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Really? Please explain! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gambo Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 I don't give a monkeys where he is from. He could be from Barnton and I wouldn't care. He is an adult that has made a choice not to wear a symbol. He's entitled to make that choice. He is not being asked to go out and individually buy and wear a poppy, he is being asked by a club who thought it a great gesture to have the poppy odorn it's shirt this weekend. He imo IS showing more of a disdain towards his club than to the poppy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stanley_ Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 People are free to choose to wear a poppy or not. It's sad that there has to be a debate about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2NaFish Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 I'm not overly 'British', in an objective sense, so my sentiments reflecting that aren't a problem. Taking one event in isolation, would both of those statements not be comparable? Both opposed to Britain in their singular context? Of course, I would probably do the same as McLean, but he opposes my view and I oppose his, so that's how freedom of exp<b></b>ression works. you're free to express your view but saying that someone not wearing a poppy is effectively spitting on britain is nonsense. you can say it but its wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJ1970 Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Forcing somebody to wear a poppy is fascism. Just as pathetic as the unionist knobheads with their Nazi salutes in front of the cenotaph in George Square. Since the Iraq disaster the Poppy has become a symbol of support for War criminals when it is supposed to be about remembrance and commemoration. A deliberate policy started by the evil Bair and continued by Moron Brown and Candida Cameron. HMFC have a particular history concerning the Great War. Battering people over the head with McRae's battalion is the kind of sickness that belongs to Sevco and their unwelcome followers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory House M.D. Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Please explain! Are you aware of the Dresden bombing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bighusref Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 lol I'm not critising him,I have spent a lot ot time in the areas hes talking about and I just wanted to explain how the Army are viewed in theses areas.So I dont see why your giving it the I dont care bla bla bla stuff.People in these areas arent entitled to make these choices or they would have to leave Lol I didn't say you were having a pop at him, I was merely stating my views. Lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moogsy Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 AGREE as Earl Haig sacrificed thousands of troops in a pointless war and it should be an individual decision whether to wear a poppy and not be dictated by the BBC who will not allow anyone to appear without wearing a poppy. We should never forget the sacrifice made by the Hearts players and others but it was lions led by upper class donkeys in a pointless war between two imperialistic monarchies in Germany and Britain.. Scottish soldiers suffered disproportionately compared to other allies. We should forget that 26% of Scots in First World War didn't come home The UK's population in 1911 was 42,138,000 and Scotland's was 4,751,000: 11.27% of the UK total. Of the Scots who marched away, 26.4% did not come home: the percentage for the rest of the UK and Ireland was 11.8% and for France 16.8%. Only the Serbs and Turks had a higher proportion of participant deaths than Scotland. All Scotland's First World War commemorations should stress the fact that 1.6% of the adult male population of the rest of the UK and Ireland died in the war. Scotland's adult male population was depleted by 3.1%. There was a lot of opposition to the War in Scotland particularly on Clydeside. Scotland Not really sure what it has to do with the rest of the thread but the 'research' behind those oft-quoted figures is very flimsy. Smacks of cheap point scoring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bighusref Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 He is not being asked to go out and individually buy and wear a poppy, he is being asked by a club who thought it a great gesture to have the poppy odorn it's shirt this weekend. He imo IS showing more of a disdain towards his club than to the poppy. OR He is exercising his right as a human being not to wear something that is a statement of support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st1874 Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Forcing somebody to wear a poppy is fascism. Just as pathetic as the unionist knobheads with their Nazi salutes in front of the cenotaph in George Square. Since the Iraq disaster the Poppy has become a symbol of support for War criminals when it is supposed to be about remembrance and commemoration. A deliberate policy started by the evil Bair and continued by Moron Brown and Candida Cameron. HMFC have a particular history concerning the Great War. Battering people over the head with McRae's battalion is the kind of sickness that belongs to Sevco and their unwelcome followers. Has the poppy been the symbol of this? Sorry but this kind of sentiment is straight from the Gallowgate. Each to their own, however those who complain about 'poppy fascism' are politicising the issue to a greater extent than so called 'poppy fascists' (what a ridiculous term) IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott herbertson Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Can't see anything wrong with what he is doing - wearing the poppy is a matter of choice and to coerce someone to do it would be wrong IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clonlara Erin Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Battering people over the head with McRae's battalion is the kind of sickness that belongs to Sevco and their unwelcome followers. Wow. I really don't know where to start with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gambo Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 OR He is exercising his right as a human being not to wear something that is a statement of support. So you advocate players refusing to wear club kit due to its sponsor? Or club kit because it once adorned the poppy etc etc. He signed for Wigan , Wigan have agreed to have the poppy on its shirt......His choice. Ie the club should not be making club kits for individuals. He imo IS making a political issue out of the poppy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Loblaw Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 He is not being asked to go out and individually buy and wear a poppy, he is being asked by a club who thought it a great gesture to have the poppy odorn it's shirt this weekend. He imo IS showing more of a disdain towards his club than to the poppy. Nonsense. My work wholeheartedly and publicly supports remembrance day and has a minutes silence for those who want to take part. But it's not mandatory and if you choose not to take part no one is considered to be showing a lack of respect, why should it be different for a football club? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fly the Saltire Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Someone should ask his views on Dresden. He's an uneducated, brainwashed arsehole. Let's not pretend otherwise. The Allies lost any moral authority due to the bombing of civilians in Dresden. An estimated 22,700 people were killed. Three more USAAF air raids followed, two occurring on 2 March and 17 April aimed at the city's railroad marshaling yard and one small raid on 17 April aimed at industrial areas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobNox Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Are you aware of the Dresden bombing? Yes, I'm aware that the RAF bombed the **** out of Dresden, just don't see the connection with James McLean or his stance on poppy shirts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
151 Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Why doesnt he **** off back to Ireland then? Boy sounds like a right toby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weekend offender Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Lol I didn't say you were having a pop at him, I was merely stating my views. Lol. Aye but people are NOT allowed to make that choice where he comes from Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_jambo Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Why doesnt he **** off back to Ireland then? Boy sounds like a right toby. People who don't wear poppies should f off back to their homelands? What's going on here? The ramping up of the remembrance day is turning people into crackpots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory House M.D. Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Yes, I'm aware that the RAF bombed the **** out of Dresden, just don't see the connection with James McLean or his stance on poppy shirts. He has a problem with poppies being worn to remember serving soldiers during bloody sunday but supports the soldiers who killed thousands of innocent civilians in Dresden. Don't pretend he is making an educated stance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
151 Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 People who don't wear poppies should f off back to their homelands? He describes the people he'd be disrespecting as "his people". Well the people of this country support the Poppy and everything it stands for, so therefore he should support it or **** off. In my opinion of course Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJGJ Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 OR He is exercising his right as a human being not to wear something that is a statement of support. That is correct but when you come out and make a statement making it clear it is a matter of principal then you need to live your life as if that principal truly matters to him. As I mentioned prev his statement seems so slanted towards one community ('my people') rather than a general statement about all the victims of the conflict that seems to have worried him most. That is not principal, it is taking a stance with a political viewpoint and when he does that we are entitled to question him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudi Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 I wear a poppy at this time of year on my overalls at my work, not everyone wears one but they don't have to go and explain to the manager or any of the directors as to why they don't, nor should he, it's his choice. Anyone with an issue over him not wanting a poppy on his shirt is a bigger arsehole that they are trying to make him out to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Draper Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 He is not being asked to go out and individually buy and wear a poppy, he is being asked by a club who thought it a great gesture to have the poppy odorn it's shirt this weekend. He imo IS showing more of a disdain towards his club than to the poppy. You can't seriously believe that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gambo Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Nonsense. My work wholeheartedly and publicly supports remembrance day and has a minutes silence for those who want to take part. But it's not mandatory and if you choose not to take part no one is considered to be showing a lack of respect, why should it be different for a football club? Whole different can opened here, how do you think it would go down if when a minutes silence at the games this weekend the players who did not believe in the poppy/remembrance kept warming up and those fans who did not believe in it started chanting during the minutes silence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Pathetic thread this. No one should have to justify wearing or not wearing an unoffensive symbol, and no one should have it forced on them either. Poppy fascism stinks of the kind of thing we give Celtic stick for. FWIW I owe my very existence to the soldiers who fought in WWII and had the outcome been different I would not be here. My grandfather served in the Polish army throughout WWII so I carry my remembrance with me every day, not just on one Sunday in November when its fashionable. I also respect that my grandfather fought ferociously against our enemies of the time and not everyone is as at ease with how history panned out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Maroonblood Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Why doesnt he **** off back to Ireland then? Boy sounds like a right toby. What's a toby? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudi Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Whole different can opened here, how do you think it would go down if when a minutes silence at the games this weekend the players who did not believe in the poppy/remembrance kept warming up and those fans who did not believe in it started chanting during the minutes silence? Same as they do for any minutes silence, you shut up for 60 seconds and think of something else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Beni of Gorgie Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Well written letter and I have total respect for his reasoning. It doesn't matter whether you agree with him or not, these are his and his peoples views. It's sad we have ever had any wars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Loblaw Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 There's a difference between choosing to wear a symbol you disagree with and openly disrespecting a collective moment of respect. There was a minutes silence before the game which I'm assuming he respected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gambo Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 You can't seriously believe that. The club that HE signed for and pay his wages have decided that wearing the poppy is the right thing to do, HE still decided to sign/play for a club with these value The club are not asking him to wear the poppy every day. Tell him if that it is that big an issue for him, Wigan have found it big enough to adorn the club kit with it, to sign for Warrington FC, as the have decided that they don't feel the need to wear a poppy. If the 'poppy' means that much to him , and it should be his choice imo, then don't sign for a club who think it is in their values to have the poppy adorn their dirt at this time of year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJGJ Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Will he partaking in the minutes silence for the same people ? If he is not wearing the poppy I presume he will not be taking part as a matter of principle. I would rather he simply stayed off the pitch out of the way until it is over as he has made it clear he has no respect for the occasion. There is no difference between the poppy and the silence.. they are both honouring the same people and he cannot have it both ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moogsy Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Seeing as his employers evidently have no issue with him not wearing a poppy shirt then they obviously don't see it as such a massive show of disrespect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gambo Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Same as they do for any minutes silence, you shut up for 60 seconds and think of something else. So he 'takes part' in the silence? Why not also 'take part' in wearing the kit your club that pays your wages deems appropriate for that club? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gambo Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Will he partaking in the minutes silence for the same people ? If he is not wearing the poppy I presume he will not be taking part as a matter of principle. I would rather he simply stayed off the pitch out of the way until it is over as he has made it clear he has no respect for the occasion. There is no difference between the poppy and the silence.. they are both honouring the same people and he cannot have it both ways. This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davieholt Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 He has a problem with poppies being worn to remember serving soldiers during bloody sunday but supports the soldiers who killed thousands of innocent civilians in Dresden. Don't pretend he is making an educated stance. With hindsight I doubt if many poppy wearers are proud of what was done to Dresden. But as others have pointed out, what is acceptable is a product of its time. In any event I'm pretty sure he doesn't condone the Dresden bombing either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Loblaw Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Seeing as his employers evidently have no issue with him not wearing a poppy shirt then they obviously don't see it as such a massive show of disrespect. Bang on. Folk are actively looking to be offended here, he doesn't want to wear a poppy. His personal choice and his employers have accepted it. That should be it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudi Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 The club that HE signed for and pay his wages have decided that wearing the poppy is the right thing to do, HE still decided to sign/play for a club with these value The club are not asking him to wear the poppy every day. Tell him if that it is that big an issue for him, Wigan have found it big enough to adorn the club kit with it, to sign for Warrington FC, as the have decided that they don't feel the need to wear a poppy. If the 'poppy' means that much to him , and it should be his choice imo, then don't sign for a club who think it is in their values to have the poppy adorn their dirt at this time of year. Get a grip FFS, you honestly think that was part of his contract and also do you think his agent will ask a club "erm do you per-chance have poppies embroidered on your strips around the 11th of November", "Oh you do, well my man won't be signing for your lot then" have a word eh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fly the Saltire Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Not really sure what it has to do with the rest of the thread but the 'research' behind those oft-quoted figures is very flimsy. Smacks of cheap point scoring. Examples of Scotland?s War Losses At Loos, on September 25, 1915, 36 of the 72 attacking battalions were Scottish and of the 12 participating battalions which suffered more than 500 casualties, eight were Scottish. At the Battle of Arras, on April 9, 1917, the Official History noted that 44 of the 120 infantry battalions committed (36.6%) were Scottish (12 each in 15th and 51st Divisions); nine, including the South African Scottish in the 9th; six, including four Tyneside Scottish in the 34th; three in the 3rd; one in the 30th and 1/1 London Scottish in the 56th. Removing the Tynesiders, South Africans and London Scottish, all of which may not have had a majority of Scots, the remaining 39 Scottish battalions represents 32.5% of the attacking force. Like all the UK's good Western Front assault divisions, 9th (Scottish), 15th (Scottish) and 51st (Highland) were deployed in crucial attacks more often than less competent divisions. Their war's end casualties reflected this. The 52nd (Lowland) served in the Middle East and, latterly, France. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Draper Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 The club that HE signed for and pay his wages have decided that wearing the poppy is the right thing to do, HE still decided to sign/play for a club with these value The club are not asking him to wear the poppy every day. Tell him if that it is that big an issue for him, Wigan have found it big enough to adorn the club kit with it, to sign for Warrington FC, as the have decided that they don't feel the need to wear a poppy. If the 'poppy' means that much to him , and it should be his choice imo, then don't sign for a club who think it is in their values to have the poppy adorn their dirt at this time of year. Nah. You're at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobNox Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 He has a problem with poppies being worn to remember serving soldiers during bloody sunday but supports the soldiers who killed thousands of innocent civilians in Dresden. Don't pretend he is making an educated stance. Did he say he supported the soldiers (actually they would be airmen) who took part in the Dresden bombing? And by wearing a poppy, are you condoning the Dresden bombing? What he said was that he mourned the deaths of both WW1 and WW2 conflicts, but for his own reasons, cannot accept the poppy symbol. I can accept that, but would rather he came out with his own way of showing respect, perhaps wearing a black armband. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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