The White Cockade Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 This thread should be locked Making an absolute mockery of "Respect" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael_bolton Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 This thread should be locked Making an absolute mockery of "Respect" Disagree. People have the right to debate this. It's easy to not open the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rods Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 This thread should be locked Making an absolute mockery of "Respect" Correct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
way out west jambo Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 This thread should be locked Making an absolute mockery of "Respect" Exactly why rememberence should play no part in football. If you want to pay your respects then go to a rememberence service. Forcing it on people in this manner will only raise the issues you have seen throughout this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussieh Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 Just remember the veterans need the monies raised, maybe oneday the government will look after the injured servicemen and women, they send to fight and keep the peace, instead of relying on charities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2NaFish Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 This thread should be locked Making an absolute mockery of "Respect" censorship is a far more disrespectful action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Cockade Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 Disagree. People have the right to debate this. It's easy to not open the thread. It's the debate i'm talking about Remembrance is a personal thing to each individual There is nothing to debate It's not a matter for football type rivalry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rods Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 It's the debate i'm talking about Remembrance is a personal thing to each individual There is nothing to debate It's not a matter for football type rivalry Spot on again My point is McLean is trying to make a big deal of it and people are making him out to be some sort of principled hero. When in reality he is nothing but a glory hunter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosmosteve Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 Total disrespect to British soldiers imo, they didn't fight just so people can go around saying and wearing whatever they like. There should be some sort of patch that people like this have to wear on their sleeve so that we right thinking folk can identify them and failing that maybe some sort of camp system they could be sent to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacDonald Jardine Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 Total disrespect to British soldiers imo, they didn't fight just so people can go around saying and wearing whatever they like. There should be some sort of patch that people like this have to wear on their sleeve so that we right thinking folk can identify them and failing that maybe some sort of camp system they could be sent to. Aye this thread is full of Nazi philosophy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restonbabe Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 If it takes a a bit of plastic and some paper to remember, are you really remembering? Yes as you are going out your way to get that bit plastic and some paper. you do know that a poppy is a flower? people do wear them! also a white poppy to symbolise peace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maroon Sailor Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 Spot on again My point is McLean is trying to make a big deal of it and people are making him out to be some sort of principled hero. When in reality he is nothing but a glory hunter. He's nothing but a **** - grade A one at that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restonbabe Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 This thread and some people. Serving or who have never served is just an embarrassment with their opinions. People fought and died for you to express this view. In doing so gave us all the choice to choose whether to wear and not to wear a poppy regardless of race or religion. James Mclean has a different agenda its for all to see here and doing so in the way he has is disrespectful to all those who died to allow him to express his view are his people not our people? we are all human beings with different views. people fought and died for these this is the whole ideology of rememberance day! Now the poppy means something completely different to what it used to symbolise. this alone is sad and the reason some choose not to wear one or chose to wear a white one. There is no right and wrong just someone elses views on it. People have died to protect these views. This is why I wear mines to remember this sacrifice from afghanistan to palestine and the somme. We will remember them. Lest We Forget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wibble Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 Frankly the support for this is just as appalling. Giving this blatant troller the oxygen it does no befit a day when we remember those who gave so much. All of the oxygen given is the hot air from the faux offended like yourself. If he was trolling he'll be loving the reaction from you and others on this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creepy Lurker Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 Not a question of understanding. Differing opinion and you're entitled to yours, doesn't make you right. Or indeed me. Obviously we're entitled to our opinions. That doesn't mean that they can't be questioned and isn't a valid defence on which to step back when you can't back them up. Regarding the points you were trying to make about Russia and Children in Need, it 100% was a problem of understanding. Edit: going back to James McLean (who was largely irrelevant to the point I made earlier), as I don't know him I can't possibly know whether or not he's 'trolling'. What I can be said with confidence is that he's released a balanced, reasonable statement in favour of his decision not to wear a poppy. This is actually more than he should have been required to do anyway, but I actually find it a bit unsettling that some posters not only seem to want to deny him his right to choose not to wear a poppy but are also entirely unwilling to countenance the idea that he or by extension anyone would ever not wear one for any reasons going beyond attention seeking or bigotry. The refusal not only to accept that others may think differently to ourselves but additionally to deny that they could ever have rational reasons for doing so is in no way healthy. This is (part of) what I was getting at with my earlier point about the poppy having been appropriated as part of the insignia of a new 'patriotic' ideology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossthejambo Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 This thread has been a real eye opener. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Generic Username Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 You can tell who's liked Britain First on Facebook. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rods Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 All of the oxygen given is the hot air from the faux offended like yourself. If he was trolling he'll be loving the reaction from you and others on this thread. I am not offended by him not wearing a poppy I am offended by his small minded attention seeking. What concerns me more is people like yourself falling over themselves to defend him. Mohammed Ali he is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacDonald Jardine Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 Obviously we're entitled to our opinions. That doesn't mean that they can't be questioned and isn't a valid defence on which to step back when you can't back them up. Regarding the points you were trying to make about Russia and Children in Need, it 100% was a problem of understanding. Edit: going back to James McLean (who was largely irrelevant to the point I made earlier), as I don't know him I can't possibly know whether or not he's 'trolling'. What I can be said with confidence is that he's released a balanced, reasonable statement in favour of his decision not to wear a poppy. This is actually more than he should have been required to do anyway, but I actually find it a bit unsettling that some posters not only seem to want to deny him his right to choose not to wear a poppy but are also entirely unwilling to countenance the idea that he or by extension anyone would ever not wear one for any reasons going beyond attention seeking or bigotry. The refusal not only to accept that others may think differently to ourselves but additionally to deny that they could ever have rational reasons for doing so is in no way healthy. This is (part of) what I was getting at with my earlier point about the poppy having been appropriated as part of the insignia of a new 'patriotic' ideology. He has made it fairly clear it's bigotry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest C00l K1d Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 I am not offended by him not wearing a poppy I am offended by his small minded attention seeking. What concerns me more is people like yourself falling over themselves to defend him. Mohammed Ali he is not. I'm not sure he is attention seeking. I'm not sure why the letter was published but he definitely would have to explain himself one way or another to the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
269miles Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 Obviously we're entitled to our opinions. That doesn't mean that they can't be questioned and isn't a valid defence on which to step back when you can't back them up. Regarding the points you were trying to make about Russia and Children in Need, it 100% was a problem of understanding. Edit: going back to James McLean (who was largely irrelevant to the point I made earlier), as I don't know him I can't possibly know whether or not he's 'trolling'. What I can be said with confidence is that he's released a balanced, reasonable statement in favour of his decision not to wear a poppy. This is actually more than he should have been required to do anyway, but I actually find it a bit unsettling that some posters not only seem to want to deny him his right to choose not to wear a poppy but are also entirely unwilling to countenance the idea that he or by extension anyone would ever not wear one for any reasons going beyond attention seeking or bigotry. The refusal not only to accept that others may think differently to ourselves but additionally to deny that they could ever have rational reasons for doing so is in no way healthy. This is (part of) what I was getting at with my earlier point about the poppy having been appropriated as part of the insignia of a new 'patriotic' ideology. If McLean doesn't want to wear a poppy he doesn't have to and he doesn't have to explain himself. End of story.But he goes to great pains to talk about N Ireland clearly to make a point. It's a shame that he will not understand that wearing a poppy doesn't mean you actually support the British army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creepy Lurker Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 If McLean doesn't want to wear a poppy he doesn't have to and he doesn't have to explain himself. End of story. But he goes to great pains to talk about N Ireland clearly to make a point. It's a shame that he will not understand that wearing a poppy doesn't mean you actually support the British army. No, but if it's taken (as generally seems to be agreed) to represent a mark of respect for British war dead from all conflicts then it shows respect for those who died - as paid soldiers who voluntarily chose to serve - in a conflict with which he disagrees, and which affected the community in which he grew up very deeply. It's disingenuous to the point of being offensive to suggest that under those circumstances there isn't justification for not wishing to wear a poppy. Of course the soldiers who died in Northern Ireland didn't choose the policies of the British Army there, but it's quite a step from exonerating them of blame on that basis to wearing a symbol commemorating their losses there. You seem to be focussing entirely on the 'he made it about Ireland' part of his statement to the exclusion of the 'I do respect those who died in the wars' bits. He has made it fairly clear it's bigotry. No he hasn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Busby Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 Really? I completely disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Busby Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 Give me strength,since when was WW1 created for Brownie points,lest we forget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
269miles Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 No, but if it's taken (as generally seems to be agreed) to represent a mark of respect for British war dead from all conflicts then it shows respect for those who died - as paid soldiers who voluntarily chose to serve - in a conflict with which he disagrees, and which affected the community in which he grew up very deeply. It's disingenuous to the point of being offensive to suggest that under those circumstances there isn't justification for not wishing to wear a poppy. Of course the soldiers who died in Northern Ireland didn't choose the policies of the British Army there, but it's quite a step from exonerating them of blame on that basis to wearing a symbol commemorating their losses there. You seem to be focussing entirely on the 'he made it about Ireland' part of his statement to the exclusion of the 'I do respect those who died in the wars' bits. No he hasn't. Because I think his statement is a load of crap. If he doesn't like the British army fair enough. He doesn't have to say any thing else. But then he would know how offensive his behaviour would appear to some and so he tries to soften it with the other stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusk_Till_Dawn Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 Because I think his statement is a load of crap. If he doesn't like the British army fair enough. He doesn't have to say any thing else. But then he would know how offensive his behaviour would appear to some and so he tries to soften it with the other stuff. Maybe he actually believes what he's saying. Maybe as a Republican he's right in what he's saying. Don't forget that him not wearing a poppy was flagged up by other people. Other people have made an issue of it. It's not like he's released this letter and folk are suddenly thinking 'blimey, this is news to me.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TNCASTLE Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 He did the same shit last year. Boy is an arse. Think you got that wrong Bill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of the North Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 This gets worse every year. Has 'remembering the fallen' become a contest to show how good we all are at remembrance, and anyone who doesn't wear one is automatically a scumbag? I swear it wasn't like this in the 80s,90s and even the early part of this century. It's become a sick, weird contest. Wear a poppy, sure. I always do. But I understand perfectly why some people don't, particularly if they have articulated their reasons for not doing so. Not that it is any of my business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creepy Lurker Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 Because I think his statement is a load of crap. If he doesn't like the British army fair enough. He doesn't have to say any thing else. But then he would know how offensive his behaviour would appear to some and so he tries to soften it with the other stuff. ...which brings us back here. ...I actually find it a bit unsettling that some posters not only seem to want to deny him his right to choose not to wear a poppy but are also entirely unwilling to countenance the idea that he or by extension anyone would ever not wear one for any reasons going beyond attention seeking or bigotry. The refusal not only to accept that others may think differently to ourselves but additionally to deny that they could ever have rational reasons for doing so is in no way healthy. This is (part of) what I was getting at with my earlier point about the poppy having been appropriated as part of the insignia of a new 'patriotic' ideology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzzbomb Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 I can't believe he's still being debated. 6 pages. Who really cares? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Libertarian Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 The White poppy represents remembrance and peace. I am wearing the red poppy and will be laying a wreath of red poppies on Sunday, but for anyone who has an issue with red poppies I would suggest white poppies. Personally I think that the 1st World War was a disgrace and that the politicians and generals who led Britain and Europe into this conflict should have jailed for murder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobNox Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 This gets worse every year. Has 'remembering the fallen' become a contest to show how good we all are at remembrance, and anyone who doesn't wear one is automatically a scumbag? I swear it wasn't like this in the 80s,90s and even the early part of this century. It's become a sick, weird contest. Wear a poppy, sure. I always do. But I understand perfectly why some people don't, particularly if they have articulated their reasons for not doing so. Not that it is any of my business. My sentiments exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramrod Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 i was always brought up to believe that wearing a poppy was to show respect to all the soldiers that lost their lives in both the great war and the 2nd world war. When did things start getting overcomplicated? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartofgold Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 Exactly why rememberence should play no part in football. If you want to pay your respects then go to a rememberence service. Forcing it on people in this manner will only raise the issues you have seen throughout this thread. Disagree with you my man. It is everything to do with football. The demographic of volunteers in WW1 was broad but mainly from working class many of whom attended football matches. The fact that so many supporters and of course players signed up to serve and sacrifice, from most football clubs at that time demands that clubs, supporters and players pay their respects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusk_Till_Dawn Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 i was always brought up to believe that wearing a poppy was to show respect to all the soldiers that lost their lives in both the great war and the 2nd world war. When did things start getting overcomplicated? I blame in the introduction of minute's applauses at football. No-one knows why we're respecting anyone anymore, how we should respect them or even when we should. I've never been in a more ridiculous situation in all my life than the minute's applause that all English football held for Fabrice Muamba. Showing respect for someone who hadn't died. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr-sad Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 i was always brought up to believe that wearing a poppy was to show respect to all the soldiers that lost their lives in both the great war and the 2nd world war. When did things start getting overcomplicated? It got overcomplicated after we (Hearts) won the Great War on our own, Kaiser did call us cheaturs though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restonbabe Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 I blame in the introduction of minute's applauses at football. No-one knows why we're respecting anyone anymore, how we should respect them or even when we should. I've never been in a more ridiculous situation in all my life than the minute's applause that all English football held for Fabrice Muamba. Showing respect for someone who hadn't died. I think a young man was saved by paramedics and a doctor who ran onto the pitch. Why shouldnt a professional footballer who died on the pitch dont forget be applauded for a recovery? He wont ever play the beautiful game again. I think outta footballing respect he was applauded. The same goes for another footballer past or present who has sadly passed. We worship them when they play at the peak of their career and mourn when they pass. Doesnt matter how old you are, if they die playing the game we all love then it is fitting to applaude or remember them. Football is only a game remember. EDIT Dare i say people seem to forget that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartgarfunkel Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 Comes across very well and clearly has very good reasoning behind his decision. Nobody should have to wear one if they don't want to. Worth pointing out that the men that died in both World Wars fought against tyranny. Seems to be lost on some people in this country. Indeed. Well put. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serj Tankian Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 Proudly wearing his easter lily on his club colours Picture on twitter with him wearing easter lily on club colours Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niblick1874 Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 I'll bet he also knows people who have been involved in other massacres, being a Bogside lad and all. so he's not a true blue then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 so he's not a true blue then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJGJ Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 Proudly wearing his easter lily on his club colours Picture on twitter with him wearing easter lily on club colours I wonder if it relates to below ?...if of course it is true and not photoshopped The Easter Lily is a badge worn at Easter by Irish republicans as symbol of remembrance for Irish republican combatants who died during or were executed after the 1916 Easter Rising. Depending on the political affiliations of the bearer, it can also commemorate members of the pre-Treaty Irish Republican Army, the post-Treaty Irish Republican Army, and either the Provisional IRA or the Official IRA. It may also be used to commemorate members of the Irish National Liberation Army Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 I wonder if it relates to below ?...if of course it is true and not photoshopped The Easter Lily is a badge worn at Easter by Irish republicans as symbol of remembrance for Irish republican combatants who died during or were executed after the 1916 Easter Rising. Depending on the political affiliations of the bearer, it can also commemorate members of the pre-Treaty Irish Republican Army, the post-Treaty Irish Republican Army, and either the Provisional IRA or the Official IRA. It may also be used to commemorate members of the Irish National Liberation Army Photoshopped? You think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Morgan Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 He didn't wear a poppy, that's his choice. It isn't mandatory to wear one, and nor it should be! Does it make him a bad person? No it does not. I suggest the people who think otherwise, to move to North Korea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamie1874 Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 It is his choice to wear a poppy or not. However I don't think for one minute that a well worded letter is even close to being his actual opinion on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maroon Sailor Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 It is his choice to wear a poppy or not. However I don't think for one minute that a well worded letter is even close to being his actual opinion on it. Think it says more about James McClean as a person. Noticed the Argies for Man City had no problem wearing a poppy on their shirts despite Argentina losing at lot of lives in 82 at the hands of British armed forces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
269miles Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 Think it says more about James McClean as a person. Noticed the Argies for Man City had no problem wearing a poppy on their shirts despite Argentina losing at lot of lives in 82 at the hands of British armed forces. As was just noted on The Sunday Supplement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamie1874 Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 Think it says more about James McClean as a person. Noticed the Argies for Man City had no problem wearing a poppy on their shirts despite Argentina losing at lot of lives in 82 at the hands of British armed forces. Exactly. Someone who has openly said one of his favorite songs is a pro IRA song. I wonder if someone from the Middle East started playing football in England and refused to wear the shirt as it had a poppy on it due to their belief on what the Armed forces did to the Taliban - would they get as much support Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 Wonder how McClean feels about the Irish Ambassador laying a wreath at The Cenotaph for the first time today, or will he have to wait for his local branch of the Shinners to tell him what to think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Burgundy Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 It's not really a shock is it. He's obviously pro terrorist and anti British. Don't know why it's being dressed up as anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.