Pete Seeger Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 What determines a fairer society? Every country in the world has poverty to some extent for an example - how can an independent Scottish parliament solve poverty? Why was social justice continually mentioned when that concept doesn't appear in the white paper? The white paper is the SNP's wishlist. I'm not sure they'd get power in an independent Scotland if Labour got it's act together. I'm not a fantasist. I don't believe poverty can be eradicated. I don't think the number's add up in Britain though and with the money that floats around this land there really shouldn't be 1 in 4 kids in Glasgow living below the poverty line. There's so much money wasted and I'd like to think we could be more sensible with what money we do have by running ourselves. Moving trident, opening up the oil fields in the Clyde that were capped in the 80's due to trident and not being reliant on a financial sector would all be beneficial for the country, I think. How the money saved from these things is distributed in a fairer way I really don't know. I'm by no means an expert and I'm fully aware that'll come across in this post! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambo1185 Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 Interest comments from YouGov. No voters were "slightly more determined, they had more to lose". High turnout I think helps no. May well be proved wrong! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators JKBMod 1 Posted September 18, 2014 Moderators Share Posted September 18, 2014 This thread will reopen shortly. This is the only thread for referendum related discussion on JKB, and posts about the referendum made elsewhere on JKB will result in warnings or possibly suspensions. Please enjoy taking a full part in the debate as the results come in, but remember we will be taking a zero tolerance approach to trolling and personal abuse on this thread. Any kind of personal abuse, personalised remarks, trolling or 'GIRUY/GIRUT' posting will result in an immediate suspension. A reminder for members, while letting people know that since this message was posted 3 members have been suspended for ignoring it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swarlos Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 There's no way it's going to be yes. Why would they give those odds if there was any decent chance. Shame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jammy T Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 Re postal votes I kind of agree with someone further up this thread - I am not sure it will reflect the entire demographic of voters - although my 34 year old sister voted by post (no) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBones Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 Yep. Ruth Davidson basically said the postal vote was in favour of no Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deesidejambo Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 Did the SNP white van and 'buddy' system actually happen? There certainly was a lot of GTVO activity from Yes in Aberdeen. I saw loads but no No GTVOs. Mind you this was in Garthdee where No is not the most welcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sooperstar Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 Looking at the reaction of Dennis canavan it's a no. Also him and the labour guy on tv last night were a embarrassment! That last night was a perfect example of the childish way both campaigns have acted at times. Jim Murphy has been a knob throughout the whole thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJGJ Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 I think you read my answer to the wrong question. I agree with you! Love the amended post !! Glad to see we are on the same page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jammy T Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 The white paper is the SNP's wishlist. I'm not sure they'd get power in an independent Scotland if Labour got it's act together. I'm not a fantasist. I don't believe poverty can be eradicated. I don't think the number's add up in Britain though and with the money that floats around this land there really shouldn't be 1 in 4 kids in Glasgow living below the poverty line. There's so much money wasted and I'd like to think we could be more sensible with what money we do have by running ourselves. Moving trident, opening up the oil fields in the Clyde that were capped in the 80's due to trident and not being reliant on a financial sector would all be beneficial for the country, I think. How the money saved from these things is distributed in a fairer way I really don't know. I'm by no means an expert and I'm fully aware that'll come across in this post! Good argument mate I just don't think you can blame poverty in Glasgow on politicians in London. A devolved Scotland could have started to sort out Scottish poverty long ago if it really wanted to or could. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deesidejambo Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 There's no way it's going to be yes. Why would they give those odds if there was any decent chance. Shame. Theres always hope! I'm a No btw - its not over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambo1185 Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 Off shore workers unable to vote due to flight cancellations. That's a real shame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJGJ Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 Amazing reading post number 1 on this page to this point in time. Hardly poor turnouts by the public on both sides. This has energised the nation and however it goes there will be significant changes to Scotland and the UK.......does anyone really think the rest of the Uk will stand still if it's a no vote ? English MP's will now move to limit involvement of Scottish MP's in some voting issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deesidejambo Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 Good argument mate I just don't think you can blame poverty in Glasgow on politicians in London. A devolved Scotland could have started to sort out Scottish poverty long ago if it really wanted to or could. Exactly. Blaming poverty on the Union was poor campaigning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deesidejambo Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 5Live announcing that Yes have won Glasgow. How the know that 1 hour into the count puzzles me!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Seeger Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 Good argument mate I just don't think you can blame poverty in Glasgow on politicians in London. A devolved Scotland could have started to sort out Scottish poverty long ago if it really wanted to or could. I don't think Holyrood does enough as it is for poverty in Scotland. I also don't think I can judge them fully while their hands are tied regarding budgets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RosscoC Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 You get the feeling it's going to be a comfortable No vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deesidejambo Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 Amazing reading post number 1 on this page to this point in time. Hardly poor turnouts by the public on both sides. This has energised the nation and however it goes there will be significant changes to Scotland and the UK.......does anyone really think the rest of the Uk will stand still if it's a no vote ? English MP's will now move to limit involvement of Scottish MP's in some voting issues. And thats sensible - a way will be found to achieve this - it seems a good principle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deesidejambo Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 You get the feeling it's going to be a comfortable No vote. Not according to 5Live!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMaganator Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 Despite being very vocal about my belief that No will win - I've had tears a couple of times since last night. It won't be seethe for me if Yes win. It'll be genuine devastation. I'll feel like part of my identity has been taken from me. I know there's been lots of talk about 'moving on together' regardless of the outcome. I'm not sure I'll be able to do that. I hope so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deesidejambo Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 I don't think Holyrood does enough as it is for poverty in Scotland. I also don't think I can judge them fully while their hands are tied regarding budgets. Holyrood has always had independent tax-raising powers. They chose not to use them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RosscoC Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 Not according to 5Live!! It's seems a very premature prediction. But agree, I think Glasgow will swing the whole thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leginten Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 BBC woman has just said there is a lot of depravity in Fife. It's possible that she meant deprivation. Then again ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambo1185 Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 Despite being very vocal about my belief that No will win - I've had tears a couple of times since last night. It won't be seethe for me if Yes win. It'll be genuine devastation. I'll feel like part of my identity has been taken from me. I know there's been lots of talk about 'moving on together' regardless of the outcome. I'm not sure I'll be able to do that. I hope so. I agree Mag. I teared up when a lady was interviewed on the news, tears streaming down her face saying "I am British. I cannot be anything else." No has so much to lose, it's the fear if having your nationality, part of your identity, ripped away from you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMac Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 It's seems a very premature prediction. But agree, I think Glasgow will swing the whole thing. how could rhey possibly know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graygo Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 BBC woman has just said there is a lot of depravity in Fife. It's possible that she meant deprivation. Then again ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RosscoC Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 BBC woman has just said there is a lot of depravity in Fife. It's possible that she meant deprivation. Then again ... She's obviously been to Dunfermline on Black Friday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jammy T Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 Despite being very vocal about my belief that No will win - I've had tears a couple of times since last night. It won't be seethe for me if Yes win. It'll be genuine devastation. I'll feel like part of my identity has been taken from me. I know there's been lots of talk about 'moving on together' regardless of the outcome. I'm not sure I'll be able to do that. I hope so. Snap mate. Totally get the sentiment of your post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deesidejambo Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 Despite being very vocal about my belief that No will win - I've had tears a couple of times since last night. It won't be seethe for me if Yes win. It'll be genuine devastation. I'll feel like part of my identity has been taken from me. I know there's been lots of talk about 'moving on together' regardless of the outcome. I'm not sure I'll be able to do that. I hope so. You and me mate! You can't remove a part of an individuals identity and heritage then just tell them to "move on". Noting from polls that the majority of Yes voters, I think about 70%, said they are voting Yes for short-term economic reasons, i.e money. All that waffle about "visions of hope" and "we want to make our own decisions" was not genuine - they were voting to get more cash by things like bedroom tax abolition etc. Stay strong! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deesidejambo Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 BBC woman has just said there is a lot of depravity in Fife. It's possible that she meant deprivation. Then again ... I grew up in Methil. She was right the first time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldar Hadzimehmedovic Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 What's the 5live thing? What was the source for saying that about Glasgow? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartsfc_fan Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 I had to take a moment earlier and reflect. We are part of history here folks. This is massive. I'll probably be asleep soon, but I'll be tuning in at 6am for the result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughesie27 Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 86% postal votes for Edinburgh I think was just confirmed on Sky News. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 The bookies odds have nothing to do with their assessment of Yes votes or No votes. The odds are determined by the bets, so if the bookies are showing long odds for Yes and short odds for No all that means is that most of the money is being bet on No - but it doesn't mean that bookies have some kind of inside knowledge of the count. Why would it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deesidejambo Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 What's the 5live thing? What was the source for saying that about Glasgow? They interviewed a "source" who presumably is at the Glasgow count. It sounds like sheet though. They also have said YouGov are predicting 99% No victory! They got that mixed up with Kellner of Yougov who actually said he is personally 99% certain. Good old 5live Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 86% postal votes for Edinburgh I think was just confirmed on Sky News. When did postal votes become so prevalent? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RosscoC Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 89% turnout in Edinburgh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Palmer Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 Evening News ?@edinburghpaper 39s No camp tell our political editor Ian Swanson a sample of postal votes from Edinburgh show 70-30 in favour of No Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartsfc_fan Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 Evening News ?@edinburghpaper 39s No camp tell our political editor Ian Swanson a sample of postal votes from Edinburgh show 70-30 in favour of No Doesn't surprise me tbh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locky Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 Sums up my feelings. Couldn't have cared less about a week ago. Absolutely buzzing now. Doubt I'll sleep. I'm just about to go on the laptop to play FM. Got the TV on too. I'm attempting an all nighter to watch this. Probably the worst idea I've ever had as I'm working tomorrow and I'm already shattered. I've had about 5-6 hours sleep the last 3 nights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaka Demus & pliers Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 Edinburgh was always going to be a No. Surprised if the gap is as big as that though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmiyaHearts Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 I'm just about to go on the laptop to play FM. Got the TV on too. I'm attempting an all nighter to watch this. Probably the worst idea I've ever had as I'm working tomorrow and I'm already shattered. I've had about 5-6 hours sleep the last 3 nights. same for me! FM on laptop and got referendum on the telly. Having a few cans as well so every chance I'll be going to work a bit worse for wear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deesidejambo Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 When did postal votes become so prevalent? They seem to nowadays allow anyone who applies for one gets it. 700,000 postal votes sent out, which is a significant part of the total electorate. But probably correct that the postal voters will tend to be the older generation, who its known are well in favour of No. So 70/30 No for Edinburgh for example may not be too relevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 BBC reporting very high turnout estimates, perhaps above 89% in Edinburgh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMaganator Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 (edited) Evening News ?@edinburghpaper 39s No camp tell our political editor Ian Swanson a sample of postal votes from Edinburgh show 70-30 in favour of No Who was that chap that wouldn't take my bet on this? Wise man (or woman) Edited September 18, 2014 by TheMaganator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilnunb Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 maybe I got lucky but my polling station was deserted when I went to vote Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deesidejambo Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 And while I'm on - Gordon Browns speech was a cracker. That came straight from the heart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 Put 5Live on at my desk. Talk about "filling space". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deesidejambo Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 Who was that chap that wouldn't take my bet on this? Wise man (or woman) Just a sample, and a rumour about a sample. And biddys. Don't cash in just yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderstruck Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 They seem to nowadays allow anyone who applies for one gets it. 700,000 postal votes sent out, which is a significant part of the total electorate. But probably correct that the postal voters will tend to be the older generation, who its known are well in favour of No. So 70/30 No for Edinburgh for example may not be too relevant. It has been "Postal Vote on Demand" for around 10 years. It was seen as a way of improving voter engagement. The risk of fraud then brought in the need for signature and date of birth when sending in a postal vote. The number of postal voters has risen steadily over the years and, to compare, the number issued in 2011 was between 5 and 600k. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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