Scottish independence and devolution superthread

[il Duce McTarkin]

1 hour ago, i wish jj was my dad said:

I don't think it is clear cut. I'd much rather the powers that be on both sides of the border focused on cleaning up the mess created by the financial crash, austerity, brexit, energy insecurity, pissing public money up a wall on dodgy contracts and the cost of living crisis. But we can't ignore that polls indicate 45% -50% want another referendum and that has to be addressed somehow.

My preference is that both sides try to prove why their way is the answer by doing their job properly. 

Instead there are elements on both sides who are happy to agitate and actively encourage the division we are seeing today. Populism isn't healthy.  It thrives on division and demonising parts of society rather than tackling the real issues which is why the card gets played so often. 

It is beneath contempt. 

 

Good post.

[Roxy Hearts]

1 hour ago, BlueRiver said:

 

I like a bottle of Menabrea. I've went off Moretti a bit lately and not sure why. Although if the local shop sticks it on offer I'm sure I'll be happy to get a few bottles of it again. 

 

Aye I was sceptical about going back out at first and over the back field but was very glad I did. Got some cracking photos. 👌 

 

 

Moretti not the same since Heineken got involved, so no surprise. It was a leftover by my son-in-law from a family bbq 😄

[Roxy Hearts]

35 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

The SG needs to learn to get on with the day job and make devolution work to convince people we can go it alone and give up harping on about independence and blaming Westminster for everything - Swinney hinted that was what he would be doing but in the last two days he has spouted Indy within 5 years and everything's Westminsters fault 

same old same old essenpee 

they need emptied . 

 

I agree that the SG should concentrate more on the basics but you can't deny that the UK Government don't make it easy! It's all reactionary. 

 

As you well know I don't trust Westminster and the state at all with its subterfuge and control. Lots goes on that others don't see or hear!

[OTT]

Alba announce their Independence strategy:https://www.thenational.scot/news/24312915.albas-proposed-scottish-independence-strategy-revealed/?ref=twtrec

 

Alba believe:

 

1. That each and every national election should be fought seeking a popular mandate to begin independence negotiations. On achievement of a majority vote combining all parties standing on this platform we will mobilise domestic and international pressure to fulfil the democratic wishes of the Scottish people.

 

2. The bill to extend the powers of the Parliament to include the legislation for and negotiation of independence by a national referendum is part of this strategy as is an Independence Convention comprising Scotland’s elected representatives and civic Scotland. These initiatives are designed to call on the sovereign power of the Scottish people to realise our objective.

 

3. Alba candidates at the forthcoming Westminster elections will promote this strategy with a view of bringing it to fruition at the 2026 Scottish General Election.

 

Obviously Unionists will ridicule, but its a cohesive strategy. Its not bumbling about in the dark fobbing off the electorate talking about "needing to convince more" and "not focus on the how". The how is crucial, and with the referendum route being withheld, as the side promoting the change, its incumbent on the YES camp to adapt their approach. 

 

I like the idea of a bill to extend the powers of the Parliament. Its our parliament, and we should be able to have a say in what gets devolved. In the same way the UK could leave the EU, all parts of the UK should have a mechanism at their disposal to leave the UK should they wish. Its just basic democracy. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 hour ago, manaliveits105 said:

the last two days he has spouted Indy within 5 years and everything's Westminsters fault 

same old same old essenpee 

Yes. I thought it was a new dawn . Silly me .

[jack D and coke]

16 hours ago, i wish jj was my dad said:

Growing the economy is important and draws a distinction between SNP and the Greens but growth has to be for the benefit of the wider population. Not just to pay for Michelle and Doug's new yacht. A tall order when the the winkers with the real power have cut us off from our European partners and are hell bent on removing any regulations and protections we had from the EU. Quite a challenge and quite frankly I doubt he, Starmer or any politician or party are up to it.

But little of that gets through to the average Joe who are bombarded with culture wars, small boats,  benefit scroungers, innuendo about Sadiq Khan and Humza Yousaf and anyone else perceived as 'different'. 

Swinney has no chance. Neither has Starmer FWW, while the country allows Harmsworth, Murdoch and their bots to pollute the agenda. And that's before we even get into what could happen over the pond if that absolute monster gets in again. 

Amen🙏🏼

 

[AyrJambo]

3 hours ago, OTT said:

Alba announce their Independence strategy:https://www.thenational.scot/news/24312915.albas-proposed-scottish-independence-strategy-revealed/?ref=twtrec

 

Alba believe:

 

1. That each and every national election should be fought seeking a popular mandate to begin independence negotiations. On achievement of a majority vote combining all parties standing on this platform we will mobilise domestic and international pressure to fulfil the democratic wishes of the Scottish people.

 

2. The bill to extend the powers of the Parliament to include the legislation for and negotiation of independence by a national referendum is part of this strategy as is an Independence Convention comprising Scotland’s elected representatives and civic Scotland. These initiatives are designed to call on the sovereign power of the Scottish people to realise our objective.

 

3. Alba candidates at the forthcoming Westminster elections will promote this strategy with a view of bringing it to fruition at the 2026 Scottish General Election.

 

Obviously Unionists will ridicule, but its a cohesive strategy. Its not bumbling about in the dark fobbing off the electorate talking about "needing to convince more" and "not focus on the how". The how is crucial, and with the referendum route being withheld, as the side promoting the change, its incumbent on the YES camp to adapt their approach. 

 

I like the idea of a bill to extend the powers of the Parliament. Its our parliament, and we should be able to have a say in what gets devolved. In the same way the UK could leave the EU, all parts of the UK should have a mechanism at their disposal to leave the UK should they wish. Its just basic democracy. 

 

Jury's still out for me....

 

..we will mobilise domestic and international pressure...

 

What does that actually mean?

If it's more asking for an S30 order then it's just as pointless as the SNP's "strategy"

 

...legislation for and negotiation of independence by a national referendum...

 

Again what does that mean?

 

In Scotland sovereignty lies with the people not with Westminster

Asking Westminster to "allow" or "approve" our inalienable human right of self-determination means that you are conceding that Westminster is sovereign

 

This is where the SNP are at and on the surface, it looks as though Alba are in the same place

 

 

 

[Konrad von Carstein]

23 hours ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Wasn’t Brexit decided by a democratic vote ? 

No, it was decided by lies & misinformation aimed at the vaguely and very xenophobic English electorate.

 

Also the result was not binding, but stellar intellects such as JRB , Farage and a quite frankly supine media ensured that there was no informed debate after the vote because it went their way, and we are reaping the benefits of Brexit every day, but you know all of that Jimbo...

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

31 minutes ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

No, it was decided by lies & misinformation aimed at the vaguely and very xenophobic English electorate.

 

Also the result was not binding, but stellar intellects such as JRB , Farage and a quite frankly supine media ensured that there was no informed debate after the vote because it went their way, and we are reaping the benefits of Brexit every day, but you know all of that Jimbo...

Indeed it was. Can you share which one of Remain's claims about a Leave vote succeeding and what would happen actually came true?

 

Let's not forget that it was the worst fought campaign in political history on both sides.

[OTT]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/2680a2d8-63ed-434a-a197-46df52bd9cd3?shareToken=1574a075b4781fd9c8b1b738fd757410

 

Great article worth a read. 

[il Duce McTarkin]

On 11/05/2024 at 07:18, Roxy Hearts said:

Moretti not the same since Heineken got involved, so no surprise. It was a leftover by my son-in-law from a family bbq 😄

 

The draft Moretti on the Philips Sub or Blade is the jackal's nuts, Roxy. 

[Ked]

15 minutes ago, OTT said:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/2680a2d8-63ed-434a-a197-46df52bd9cd3?shareToken=1574a075b4781fd9c8b1b738fd757410

 

Great article worth a read. 

Good stuff.

And a poke in the eye to all the guff posted on here about her background while ignoring others.

An example of being governed by dogma .

And frankly being a left wing buckhead.

Imo .

[JudyJudyJudy]

37 minutes ago, OTT said:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/2680a2d8-63ed-434a-a197-46df52bd9cd3?shareToken=1574a075b4781fd9c8b1b738fd757410

 

Great article worth a read. 

It really is . Thanks for posting . 

[Roxy Hearts]

39 minutes ago, il Duce McTarkin said:

 

The draft Moretti on the Philips Sub or Blade is the jackal's nuts, Roxy. 

I like the Moretti Baffo D'oro on the sub keg machine. The normal Moretti is rank, il Duce.

[Roxy Hearts]

50 minutes ago, OTT said:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/2680a2d8-63ed-434a-a197-46df52bd9cd3?shareToken=1574a075b4781fd9c8b1b738fd757410

 

Great article worth a read. 

Fair enough article. We're supposed to live in a democracy where values and views are cherished. You don't have to agree with something but you have the right to express it within the law.

[il Duce McTarkin]

8 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

I like the Moretti Baffo D'oro on the sub keg machine. The normal Moretti is rank, il Duce.

 

Away and fling shite at yersel, Roxy, it's ****ing delicious. 

[il Duce McTarkin]

4 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

You don't have to agree with something but you have the right to express it within the law.

 

Unless we're taking about beer, then the gloves are off.

[Dawnrazor]

2 minutes ago, il Duce McTarkin said:

 

Unless we're taking about beer, then the gloves are off.

You like Moretti you......you breast of a man, it's no' even real ****ing beer for **** sake 🤦🤦

Edited May 12 by Dawnrazor

[Roxy Hearts]

3 minutes ago, il Duce McTarkin said:

 

Away and fling shite at yersel, Roxy, it's ****ing delicious. 

I'm drinking a bottle if Moretti just now 😂. It's better than the keg stuff. Have you tried the Baffo, now that's lovely?

[Roxy Hearts]

3 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

You like Moretti you you breast of a man, it's even real ****ing beer for **** sake 🤦🤦

🤣🍻

[il Duce McTarkin]

3 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

You like Moretti you......you breast of a man, it's no' even real ****ing beer for **** sake 🤦🤦

 

The stuff out the sub is lovely. You just stick to pig's blood or whatever pagan shite it is you weirdos are into.

[Roxy Hearts]

1 minute ago, il Duce McTarkin said:

 

The stuff out the sub is lovely. You just stick to pig's blood or whatever pagan shite it is you weirdos are into.

😂 Can't stand all that IPA pish or real ale. I like the Innis Gunn stuff as it's malty and a Guinness.

[il Duce McTarkin]

3 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

I'm drinking a bottle if Moretti just now 😂. It's better than the keg stuff. Have you tried the Baffo, now that's lovely?

 

I haven't, no. The Mrs keeps a good stock of the Moretti autentica or whatever its called for the sub, which is a nice change after I've piled into a keg of some death juice or other from the PD. It's an easy starter for 10 on a rough morning too.

[Dawnrazor]

1 minute ago, Roxy Hearts said:

I'm drinking a bottle if Moretti just now 😂. It's better than the keg stuff. Have you tried the Baffo, now that's lovely?

I'm no' having it Roxy, I've tried all that stuff, Moretti, Peroni, Estrella, Madri etc, bang average lager for tossers with beards, flannel shirts and troosers half way up their shins.

 

[il Duce McTarkin]

1 minute ago, Roxy Hearts said:

😂 Can't stand all that IPA pish or real ale. I like the Innis Gunn stuff as it's malty and a Guinness.

 

IPA daft, me. No stranger to Guinness either.

[il Duce McTarkin]

1 minute ago, Dawnrazor said:

I'm no' having it Roxy, I've tried all that stuff, Moretti, Peroni, Estrella, Madri etc, bang average lager for tossers with beards, flannel shirts and troosers half way up their shins.

 

 

Crocs, Dawn'.

 

****ING CROCS.

 

 

Edited May 12 by il Duce McTarkin

[Dawnrazor]

1 minute ago, Roxy Hearts said:

😂 Can't stand all that IPA pish or real ale. I like the Innis Gunn stuff as it's malty and a Guinness.

I got the boy some Innes & Gunn Lager last week, passible, but only just, he's trying to find a beer he likes, Corona was his favourite for a bit but he's gone off it now, thankfully he likes proper beer too.

[Roxy Hearts]

3 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

I'm no' having it Roxy, I've tried all that stuff, Moretti, Peroni, Estrella, Madri etc, bang average lager for tossers with beards, flannel shirts and troosers half way up their shins.

 

I like those beers but don't wear the gear! 😂

[Dawnrazor]

7 minutes ago, il Duce McTarkin said:

 

The stuff out the sub is lovely. You just stick to pig's blood or whatever pagan shite it is you weirdos are into.

I'd happily drink a pint of pigs blood, but from a pewter tankard😉

[Roxy Hearts]

1 minute ago, Dawnrazor said:

I got the boy some Innes & Gunn Lager last week, passible, but only just, he's trying to find a beer he likes, Corona was his favourite for a bit but he's gone off it now, thankfully he likes proper beer too.

Corona is pish! I&G bottle stuff can be good.

[Dawnrazor]

4 minutes ago, il Duce McTarkin said:

 

Crocs, Dawn'.

 

****ING CROCS.

 

 

🤣🤣🤣 Got me there Guv!

[Roxy Hearts]

6 minutes ago, il Duce McTarkin said:

 

IPA daft, me. No stranger to Guinness either.

Too hoppy and what's with all the citrus? Brewdogs beers are all pish too!

Edited May 12 by Roxy Hearts

[redjambo]

I guess I'll need to head over to the beer thread if I want to chat about Scottish independence.

[redjambo]

35 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

Too hoppy and what's with all the citrus? Brewdogs beers are all pish too!

 

Blasphemy.

[Roxy Hearts]

12 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

Blasphemy.

Prefer malty beers.

[redjambo]

1 minute ago, Roxy Hearts said:

Prefer malty beers.

 

Perfectly acceptable, Roxy. I was only joshing, I like my hoppy and my malty too. Favourite at the moment is Dark Island. Wonderfully rich.

[il Duce McTarkin]

1 hour ago, Dawnrazor said:

I'd happily drink a pint of pigs blood, but from a pewter tankard😉

 

I've got a sort of Viking style pewter goblet I picked up from the old Luckenbooth up the High Street years ago. It's great for keeping beer ice cold when in the hot tub. It's also great for banging on the table and demanding they bring you the head of Redbeard McTavish or whoever. Got in trouble when the laddie started banging his cup on the table at nursery and demanding the same. Kids eh. Like sponges.

[Roxy Hearts]

20 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

Perfectly acceptable, Roxy. I was only joshing, I like my hoppy and my malty too. Favourite at the moment is Dark Island. Wonderfully rich.

Might give it a try 👍

[Hagar the Horrible]

Police probe into the SNP finance is due within weeks

 

it wont say if others will be arrested, but what it did say is that their report will be presented to prosecutors within weeks.

 

If there was no case to answer they might not bother, but as Murrell has been charged, then there must be enough evidence to go ahead, with something on him at least so far.

[lost in space]

59 minutes ago, Hagar the Horrible said:

Police probe into the SNP finance is due within weeks

 

it wont say if others will be arrested, but what it did say is that their report will be presented to prosecutors within weeks.

 

If there was no case to answer they might not bother, but as Murrell has been charged, then there must be enough evidence to go ahead, with something on him at least so far.

My guess is that Murrell will be the only person charged - tho possibly the Treasurer guy.  The CPS will decide there is a case to answer and the case will proceed for prosecution.  Just as many are looking forward to a "juicy" court case with some interesting testimony - wee Peter "goes guilty" and is eventually sentenced to a couple of years jail time.

We never get to hear the gory details - but from jail Peter says - "well, its better than living in Cumbernauld with "her indoors"!!

[Hagar the Horrible]

2 hours ago, lost in space said:

My guess is that Murrell will be the only person charged - tho possibly the Treasurer guy.  The CPS will decide there is a case to answer and the case will proceed for prosecution.  Just as many are looking forward to a "juicy" court case with some interesting testimony - wee Peter "goes guilty" and is eventually sentenced to a couple of years jail time.

We never get to hear the gory details - but from jail Peter says - "well, its better than living in Cumbernauld with "her indoors"!!

Do you think wee peter will take one for the Clypto Three then?

 

It is just that there is usually any 2 of three signatories to make and approve payments,  At worst the Treasurer was incompetent, by not spotting a trend sooner, At best he was covering up for the other 2?

 

lets face it we all want a huge scandal, as we all like to watch a fall from grace, but we are more likely to get a pair of sandals to go with the campervan.  I do think it will be deliberately under played,  But Jo has refused to confirm or deny if anybody else will be charged.  

 

The thing is if it was just Murrell, he would you would think already asked to make a plea in court????

[Lord Montpelier]

19 minutes ago, Hagar the Horrible said:

Do you think wee peter will take one for the Clypto Three then?

 

It is just that there is usually any 2 of three signatories to make and approve payments,  At worst the Treasurer was incompetent, by not spotting a trend sooner, At best he was covering up for the other 2?

 

lets face it we all want a huge scandal, as we all like to watch a fall from grace, but we are more likely to get a pair of sandals to go with the campervan.  I do think it will be deliberately under played,  But Jo has refused to confirm or deny if anybody else will be charged.  

 

The thing is if it was just Murrell, he would you would think already asked to make a plea in court????

A lot of this will rest with the Lord Advocates ability to remain impartial whilst being both pals with the Murrells and sitting in the SNP led Scottish cabinet.

 

Something that should sit uncomfortably for anyone that believes in democracy given the conflicts of interest that might occur

[manaliveits105]

8 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said:

A lot of this will rest with the Lord Advocates ability to remain impartial whilst being both pals with the Murrells and sitting in the SNP led Scottish cabinet.

 

Something that should sit uncomfortably for anyone that believes in democracy given the conflicts of interest that might occur

Its outrageous the law must be completely impartial - in Scotland it's not and that needs to change 

[Hagar the Horrible]

23 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

Its outrageous the law must be completely impartial - in Scotland it's not and that needs to change 

Murrell was given 2 days notice to say he was going to be lifted, He should have been treated just like every other criminal, and a knock on the door at 5 in the morning.

[lost in space]

56 minutes ago, Hagar the Horrible said:

Do you think wee peter will take one for the Clypto Three then?

 

It is just that there is usually any 2 of three signatories to make and approve payments,  At worst the Treasurer was incompetent, by not spotting a trend sooner, At best he was covering up for the other 2?

 

lets face it we all want a huge scandal, as we all like to watch a fall from grace, but we are more likely to get a pair of sandals to go with the campervan.  I do think it will be deliberately under played,  But Jo has refused to confirm or deny if anybody else will be charged.  

 

The thing is if it was just Murrell, he would you would think already asked to make a plea in court????

Yes, think Wee Peter will take the fall. The Treasurer might be able to go for a "not fit to plea" but I think good chance that Peter has agreed to plead guilty to some charges if others are dropped. Not proper in Scotland but happens. A plea bargain really.

Re the 2 "guilty signatories" - doubt they will be charged as they trusted Peter fully (fooly) and just signed where Peter asked them to.  Of course we won't know this for sure if there is no trial and only sentencing, which would suit Mrs Murrell, SNP, Judiciary and Police.

I am only speculating of course.

[doctor jambo]

1 minute ago, The Mighty Thor said:

 

Enemies of the people likesy.

Not sure when the government on either side of the border has ever been on the side of the people TBH.

The mother of the people routine was pretty nauseating, as was Boris with his sound bloke from the pub charade

[Konrad von Carstein]

Just now, il Duce McTarkin said:

 

 

Agreed.

 

[Watt-Zeefuik]

On 11/05/2024 at 19:27, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Indeed it was. Can you share which one of Remain's claims about a Leave vote succeeding and what would happen actually came true?

 

Let's not forget that it was the worst fought campaign in political history on both sides.

 

The most obvious one is that Brexit would make inflation significantly worse in the UK. This has been somewhat obscured by the global inflation in the wake of the pandemic but the UK continues to have the most persistently high inflation while US and Eurozone inflation has fallen much faster.

 

 

And this wasn't exactly hard to predict. You dramatically increase the trade friction with your biggest trading partners, the transaction costs embedded in everything you do are going to go up.

[Maple Leaf]

Please stay on topic.  Thanks.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

2 hours ago, Watt-Zeefuik said:

 

The most obvious one is that Brexit would make inflation significantly worse in the UK. This has been somewhat obscured by the global inflation in the wake of the pandemic but the UK continues to have the most persistently high inflation while US and Eurozone inflation has fallen much faster.

 

 

And this wasn't exactly hard to predict. You dramatically increase the trade friction with your biggest trading partners, the transaction costs embedded in everything you do are going to go up.

And nothing to do with Germany going into recession of course. Who predicted that during the Brexit campaign?