Fitness Thread

[Walrus]

[TheOak88]

 

This is a really individual thing. Some people find they train best completely fasted, others can handle a pretty big meal almost directly before training. Anecdotally a lot of people find that a BCAA supplement helps at this point; although it is true that having BCAAs in your system will help you if you're training overnight fasted, I personally think it's a bit of a waste of money as you can get them into your system through any complete protein source anyway.

 

I think BCAA's are a worthwhile supplement - certainly more worthwhile than the pre-workout drinks that many on here seem to spend their money on. It is true what you say Creepy about getting BCAA's from protein sources, however, it is basically impossible to time the release of BCAA's through food, as you are at the mercy of your digestive system. If you consume protein from a food source there will be BCAA's in there, however, the BCAA's will be bound to other Amino Acids and won't be released from these other Amino Acids until they have gone through your digestive system. This could take any number of hours - so, how do you then time that release to co-incide with your workout?

 

If you use a BCAA supplements there is no digestion time. In other words, you can dictate when and how much hits your bloodstream. This is very useful if you are on a cutting style diet where you will probably only be on a moderately high protein diet anyway and are therefore less likely to be getting your BCAA's through solid food. On a cut you are also in a calorie deficit therefore, likely to go catabolic quicker during a workout.

 

On a bulk they are probably just a useful addition, if you have the money. On a cut they should be an important part of your supplement regime IMO.

[Creepy Lurker]

Why would you go moderate protein when cutting? Your protein requirement doesn't change, but if anything I'd say it should be slightly increased on a cut rather than decreased.

 

If you've eaten in the six hours or so before training, BCAAs will be being released into your bloodstream during your workout. Not only will they be seeping in before the workout, but also during and after. It's also worth pointing out that you're not that likely to 'go catabolic' during a workout unless you're an endurance athlete with multiple glycogen depleting events on the same day, and that if you're on a cutting diet you'll end up losing muscle mass to some extent anyway. Your body's always in states of both anabolism and catabolism, and it's the net balance over time which dictates body composition.

 

I'm not saying that BCAA supplements are totally useless, but I don't see any necessity beyond their possibly being useful when training overnight fasted (and even at that I'm not convinced that for the majority of people they'll be any more useful than whey). I have used them in the past myself and probably will again and the reason why I mentioned them was because he is training overnight fasted and they could be worth a try in that context; otherwise, I think the money's best spent elsewhere.

[Chrambo]

I've signed up for the marathon but currently trying to put weight on, so alot of cardio may be counter productive. Was recommended BCAA to take before running, would this be the best way to stop myself losing weight that I can't really afford to! Just started upping my meals a day, basically eating as much as possible.

[JC]

For those of you with a real interest in training, nutrition and supplementation have a read of Charles Poliquin's website and blogs. The guy is world class and leading that specific field. There is a ton of information in there for beginners to experienced trainers and for folk involved in a range of activities.

 

Sounds like a sales pitchI know and apologies if it reads that way however I've learnt a lot from reading and applying some of his stuff!

 

http://www.charlespoliquin.com/

[Jambo_Gaz]

For those of you with a real interest in training, nutrition and supplementation have a read of Charles Poliquin's website and blogs. The guy is world class and leading that specific field. There is a ton of information in there for beginners to experienced trainers and for folk involved in a range of activities.

 

Sounds like a sales pitchI know and apologies if it reads that way however I've learnt a lot from reading and applying some of his stuff!

 

http://www.charlespoliquin.com/

 

I'm reading this site in a different window just now weirdly. Very good stuff on there.

 

On a side note, anyone use HCL supps on here? Any you could recommend etc. missus has finally snapped over my toxic farts.

[Guest GhostHunter]

I use SciMx protein stuff - Omni Mx, really only because I train so early and can't face eating at that time.

 

Toxic pretty well sums me as well.

 

In fact...weirdly enough, I just let rip in my office

[Creepy Lurker]

I've signed up for the marathon but currently trying to put weight on, so alot of cardio may be counter productive. Was recommended BCAA to take before running, would this be the best way to stop myself losing weight that I can't really afford to! Just started upping my meals a day, basically eating as much as possible.

 

If I were you I'd concentrate on one or the other. To gain weight while marathon training you'd need to eat an enormous amount of food. As far as BCAAs go they're pretty irrelevant in this context as you'll still lose weight if you're burning more calories than you're taking in. I remember you mentioning having difficulty gaining weight anyway and being on a tight budget, so I really think you'd be wasting your time trying to both gain weight and train for a marathon.

 

For those of you with a real interest in training, nutrition and supplementation have a read of Charles Poliquin's website and blogs. The guy is world class and leading that specific field. There is a ton of information in there for beginners to experienced trainers and for folk involved in a range of activities.

 

Sounds like a sales pitchI know and apologies if it reads that way however I've learnt a lot from reading and applying some of his stuff!

 

http://www.charlespoliquin.com/

 

As a strength coach he's one of the best in the business, but I wouldn't necessarily take his views on nutrition too seriously.

[JC]

 

 

If I were you I'd concentrate on one or the other. To gain weight while marathon training you'd need to eat an enormous amount of food. As far as BCAAs go they're pretty irrelevant in this context as you'll still lose weight if you're burning more calories than you're taking in. I remember you mentioning having difficulty gaining weight anyway and being on a tight budget, so I really think you'd be wasting your time trying to both gain weight and train for a marathon.

 

 

 

As a strength coach he's one of the best in the business, but I wouldn't necessarily take his views on nutrition too seriously.

 

Would that be because of his paleo leanings?

[Creepy Lurker]

Would that be because of his paleo leanings?

 

Yes and no.

 

I don't think that there's anything wrong with paleo in itself: it's a diet which emphasises high quality proteins, plenty of veggies and fruits and healthy fat sources. The problem is when pseudoscientific justifications are claimed based on how we've evolved, justifications which aren't based on any actual evidence. It also cuts out a lot of carb sources, which isn't necessarily a good idea for active populations. Those most susceptible to the paleo diet seem to be crossfitters and similar, who if anything are the population to which it's least suited.

 

That's partly my problem with guys like Poliquin too. They point to the way that they've done things, say that they've got results and go from there to claim that that's the onlyl way to do things (often cherrypicking studies which seem to back up their claims whilst ignoring those that don't). I do think that there's a place for anecdotal evidence (ie, 'I did this and it worked, ergo it is a strategy which works'), but they shouldn't try to claim scientific justifications based upon that and they should also acknowledge that there's other anecdotal evidence of people getting great results doing the absolute opposite of what they're doing (such as professional bodybuilder Alberto Nunez eating pop tarts during contest prep). What does that suggest? That food choices, nutrient timing (Poliquin's high protein and fat / low carb breakfast for example) and so on may not actually be the most important factors in determining body composition.

 

Saying what they've done and that it's worked for them is fine, but claiming that it's the only way to get results or even that it's a superior way to get results without actual evidence to back up those assertions is genuinely irresponsible in that it can and often does lead to disordered eating habits and in more extreme cases fully blown eating disorders. It's literature like this which is responsible for a large proportion of male eating disorders in particular, which are far more common than people realise and which, in this case, are ironically enough developed in an attempt to be healthy.

 

That's why I don't like guys like Poliquin's views on nutrition. Basically he should stick to being a strength coach, which he's excellent at, and leave nutrition to nutrition guys such as Lyle McDonald, Alan Aragon, Layne Norton and others, all of whom to a greater or lesser extent preach the benefits of flexible dieting.

[TheOak88]

Why would you go moderate protein when cutting? Your protein requirement doesn't change, but if anything I'd say it should be slightly increased on a cut rather than decreased.

 

If you've eaten in the six hours or so before training, BCAAs will be being released into your bloodstream during your workout. Not only will they be seeping in before the workout, but also during and after. It's also worth pointing out that you're not that likely to 'go catabolic' during a workout unless you're an endurance athlete with multiple glycogen depleting events on the same day, and that if you're on a cutting diet you'll end up losing muscle mass to some extent anyway. Your body's always in states of both anabolism and catabolism, and it's the net balance over time which dictates body composition.

 

I'm not saying that BCAA supplements are totally useless, but I don't see any necessity beyond their possibly being useful when training overnight fasted (and even at that I'm not convinced that for the majority of people they'll be any more useful than whey). I have used them in the past myself and probably will again and the reason why I mentioned them was because he is training overnight fasted and they could be worth a try in that context; otherwise, I think the money's best spent elsewhere.

 

With regards to protein requirement. Personally I do go a bit lower on protein when I am cutting. If I am bulking I will eat about 300g protein per day. My body weight is about 200 pounds. There is no need for me to eat 300g of protein per day on a cut. It's just overkill. At 200 pounds I don't need 300g protein every day just to maintain muscle IMO. I will drop it to about 200g. Which IMO is a moderate amount of protein. And will do the job of maintaining muscle mass adequatly.

 

The stuff about it being impossible to go catabolic during a workout is untrue. You can go catabolic during a workout without being an endurance athlete. As you say your body drifts in and out of catabolism throughout the day. I am not saying BCAA's are the be all and end all - because they are defo not but they are a useful tool for people who are cutting and are potentially doing fasted cardio etc. I explained why food isn't optimal for getting your BCAA's and why using a supplements can be more effective - you obviously don't believe me. In your latest post you say when it comes to nutrition to listen to guys like Layne Norton - well turns out his views on BCAA's are very similar to mine http://www.bodybuild...mino-acids.html.

Edited February 14, 2013 by TheOak88

[The People's Chimp]

With regards to protein requirement. Personally I do go a bit lower on protein when I am cutting. If I am bulking I will eat about 300g protein per day. My body weight is about 200 pounds. There is no need for me to eat 300g of protein per day on a cut. It's just overkill. At 200 pounds I don't need 300g protein every day just to maintain muscle IMO. I will drop it to about 200g. Which IMO is a moderate amount of protein. And will do the job of maintaining muscle mass adequatly.

 

The stuff about it being impossible to go catabolic during a workout is untrue. You can go catabolic during a workout without being an endurance athlete. As you say your body drifts in and out of catabolism throughout the day. I am not saying BCAA's are the be all and end all - because they are defo not but they are a useful tool for people who are cutting and are potentially doing fasted cardio etc. I explained why food isn't optimal for getting your BCAA's and why using a supplements can be more effective - you obviously don't believe me. In your latest post you say when it comes to nutrition to listen to guys like Layne Norton - well turns out his views on BCAA's are very similar to mine http://www.bodybuild...mino-acids.html.

 

Good link.

 

 

[Creepy Lurker]

With regards to protein requirement. Personally I do go a bit lower on protein when I am cutting. If I am bulking I will eat about 300g protein per day. My body weight is about 200 pounds. There is no need for me to eat 300g of protein per day on a cut. It's just overkill. At 200 pounds I don't need 300g protein every day just to maintain muscle IMO. I will drop it to about 200g. Which IMO is a moderate amount of protein. And will do the job of maintaining muscle mass adequatly.

 

The stuff about it being impossible to go catabolic during a workout is untrue. You can go catabolic during a workout without being an endurance athlete. As you say your body drifts in and out of catabolism throughout the day. I am not saying BCAA's are the be all and end all - because they are defo not but they are a useful tool for people who are cutting and are potentially doing fasted cardio etc. I explained why food isn't optimal for getting your BCAA's and why using a supplements can be more effective - you obviously don't believe me. In your latest post you say when it comes to nutrition to listen to guys like Layne Norton - well turns out his views on BCAA's are very similar to mine http://www.bodybuild...mino-acids.html.

 

Yeah, Layne is very pro-BCAA. I believe he has some research going through peer review which he believes will go a long way to proving their effectiveness, and I'll take a look at it when it comes out. At this point, though, published research on the subject is indifferent at best.

 

Edit: I've seen some people claiming Layne's views on BCAAs are coloured by his role as a Scivation employee. I actually completely disagree, as it just doesn't fit in with his behaviour elsewhere, and think that he truly does believe in BCAA supplementation.

 

You seem to be getting quite confrontational about this. The other guys that I namechecked tend not to be in favour of BCAA use, so what does that prove? Nothing beyond the fact that there isn't an absolute consensus on the extent to which they're useful. I'm also a fan of Borge Fagerli, who is in favour of BCAA use. Not everything's black and white.

 

I phrased my point regarding going catabolic during a workout poorly, or rather made a point which wasn't really relevant (it's more relevant in terms of people obsessing over necking their quick release carbs post-workout, which isn't what we're discussing). You're always in states of both anabolism and catabolism, and it's the net balance over time which is going to count. It's not really important if, during your workout, catabolism outweighs anabolism because it's the net balance over the course of the day/week/whatever extended time period you want to choose that matters. Growth and repair don't take place during your workout anyway.

 

It's not that I don't 'believe' you about food not being a good source of BCAAs; it's that I don't agree with you. Depending on the protein source in question digestion rates can vary, but I'm not talking about getting a meal down you and then training immediately after; I'm talking about having eating something within six hours before your workout. The point could actually be extended to point out that some meals can take up to 72 hours to digest fully.

 

As far as your protein consumption goes, 200g is a perfectly adequate intake. It's not that you're consuming too little on a cut, but more than you need on a bulk. There isn't anything wrong with that if it's what you prefer and works for you, but your protein requirement is an absolute and doesn't change based on whether you're bulking or cutting. My personal opinion is that it should just be kept the same on a bulk or a cut, but plenty of people who normally eat 1g/lb bodyweight will up it slightly when cutting as a safety net. Once you've consumed an adequate amount (ie 1g/lb, which is arguably already too much in most cases anyway) it's about calories in vs calories out, so whether the extra calories are from protein, carbs or fat doesn't matter provided that dietary fat intake is sufficient.

 

You aren't saying that BCAAs are the be all and end all and I'm not saying that they're a complete scam (as is the case with the majority of supplements). What I am saying is that under normal circumstances, with the possible exception of training overnight fasted (which is pretty much the same scenario you've brought up) the money spent buying them could be better spent elsewhere.

Edited February 14, 2013 by Creepy Lurker

[Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC]

I'm thinking about cutting but I've never done it before, I'd imagine a few folk are in the same boat.

 

I know the basics and have done a bit of reading, just looking for some past experience really.

 

Few questions I have to start off:

 

Is there a specific time you should start if you want to be in good shape by the summer?

 

How long should a cut last?

 

How did you get around drinking at the weekend and factoring that into your cut?

 

That's three things I'm wondering about just now, any more info welcome.

[Chrambo]

 

 

If I were you I'd concentrate on one or the other. To gain weight while marathon training you'd need to eat an enormous amount of food. As far as BCAAs go they're pretty irrelevant in this context as you'll still lose weight if you're burning more calories than you're taking in. I remember you mentioning having difficulty gaining weight anyway and being on a tight budget, so I really think you'd be wasting your time trying to both gain weight and train for a marathon.

 

Cheers. Considering accepting this is a cutting period and just cutting what I have.

[Guest GhostHunter]

I'm thinking about cutting but I've never done it before, I'd imagine a few folk are in the same boat.

 

I know the basics and have done a bit of reading, just looking for some past experience really.

 

Few questions I have to start off:

 

Is there a specific time you should start if you want to be in good shape by the summer?

 

How long should a cut last?

 

How did you get around drinking at the weekend and factoring that into your cut?

 

That's three things I'm wondering about just now, any more info welcome.

 

Thank you for asking that - I'd like to know as well, especially around the how/what and why type q's...

[Walrus]

What's your guys opinions on telling people in the gym if their form is dangerously wrong?

 

I was watching a guy 'deadlift' 100kg the other day and I was just waiting on something snapping in his back. I was actually deadlifting next to him and I could see him watching me whilst doing it but I didn't know whether to say to him that he could really hurt himself if he didn't sort him form.

[Lancashire_Lou]

Did 2 hours of roller skating on Wednesday night. Just started to feel it this morning!

[The Brow]

What's your guys opinions on telling people in the gym if their form is dangerously wrong?

 

I was watching a guy 'deadlift' 100kg the other day and I was just waiting on something snapping in his back. I was actually deadlifting next to him and I could see him watching me whilst doing it but I didn't know whether to say to him that he could really hurt himself if he didn't sort him form.

 

Folk who squat or deadlift without being shown properly how to align their back and position their heads are in the majority at the 3 gyms I have been a member of. Ridiculous 'roidheads just 'monging' up the weight (for want of a better description) as quickly as possible with no technique and folk doing front squats with elbows pointing at the floor etc. As Sherrif John Bunell would say, thats a fast track to A&E.

 

Personally, I wouldnt say a thing but if they look like they are proper struggling then maybe just give them a couple tips. If they look like the sort of peen who wears a bobble hat in the gym and lonsdale loafers then I'd just ignore them. Jobby catchers can GTF as well.

[ellsbells]

What's your guys opinions on telling people in the gym if their form is dangerously wrong?

 

I was watching a guy 'deadlift' 100kg the other day and I was just waiting on something snapping in his back. I was actually deadlifting next to him and I could see him watching me whilst doing it but I didn't know whether to say to him that he could really hurt himself if he didn't sort him form.

 

I don't bother saying anything if i'm in the gym training, but if i'm at work (i work as a trainer) it's pretty important for me to give as many helpful tips as possible.

 

Every day when i train i see people with incorrect form but to be honest it would take half the day to correct the number of things you see. If i'm there training for myself, in my own time, I don't see it as my responsibility to correct people who are doing something incorrectly. I've seen some people attempt to and been rudely greeted with "what wid yoo ken like?!" and that sort. On the other hand, if someone approaches me and asks about a particular exercise i'm doing or asks for a spot, i'm more than happy to help in any way i can.

 

As you rightly point out, there's far too many people using their ego as their guide in the gym and concentrating on the weight rather than the proper technique. A massive weight chucked around with poor form will lead to injury and imbalance, plus it probably won't actually work the muscles it's meant to. A slightly more conservative weight, decent form, decent tempo and control will prevent the above and also help isolate and increase the tension on the desired muscle.

[Creepy Lurker]

Is there a specific time you should start if you want to be in good shape by the summer?

 

How long should a cut last?

 

How did you get around drinking at the weekend and factoring that into your cut?

 

That's three things I'm wondering about just now, any more info welcome.

 

First one really depends on where you start out, how lean you want to and can realistically become and how aggressively you're going to cut. Bit of a non-answer, I know, but it really does depend on all of those things.

 

Second is pretty similar, really. If you don't have a specific goal weight or body fat percentage in mind and are just going on how you look in the mirror then maybe 8-12 weeks as a guideline? Or until you get to a point where you're happy with how you look.

 

For the third one Martin Berkhan wrote a pretty good article:

 

http://www.leangains.com/2010/07/truth-about-alcohol-fat-loss-and-muscle.html

 

Basically get your protein in while going as low calorie as you can until you start drinking and drink lower calorie drinks. That way you'll minimise the caloric surplus from days when you drink. If you still find yourself not cutting as quickly as you like to you might have to cut more aggressively during the week to compensate. For me personally, drunken munchies are more of an issue than the alcohol itself.

[Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC]

Nice one CL. I know that feel bro, it's the day after for me. I can't resist the urge to eat copious amounts of krispy kreme donuts absolute garbage while hungover. Will give that link a read.

 

Another thing, I've read that you should expect progress on your lifts to basically stop while you're cutting, is that correct?

[ellsbells]

Nice one CL. I know that feel bro, it's the day after for me. I can't resist the urge to eat copious amounts of krispy kreme donuts absolute garbage while hungover. Will give that link a read.

 

Another thing, I've read that you should expect progress on your lifts to basically stop while you're cutting, is that correct?

 

On the second point, I'd say it may be slightly harder to increase weights at the same rate but not impossible. I'm on what you might term a "cut" just now and still consistently manage to lift more, maybe just not as regularly as when I have a caloric surplus and feel more energised.

 

The key on a cut is to create a deficit without starving yourself. I introduce slightly more cardio than normal to ensure my whole deficit doesn't have to be from dietary alterations. Another note on cutting is to maintain the same weights and not to adopt some form of "low weight/high rep" style training which people believe helps create muscle tone. Lift heavy, train hard and don't go over the top on cardio. Those are my tips from whag have worked for me.

[Creepy Lurker]

Nice one CL. I know that feel bro, it's the day after for me. I can't resist the urge to eat copious amounts of krispy kreme donuts absolute garbage while hungover. Will give that link a read.

 

Another thing, I've read that you should expect progress on your lifts to basically stop while you're cutting, is that correct?

 

Haha, it's brutal. I'm at a point now where I've just accepted eating shite when drunk is a part of my life and the most I can do is limit the damage before I start drinking.

 

I personally find it harder to progress my lifts when cutting, but in theory it shouldn't be impossible. Strength gains are about muscle fibre recruitment rather than being in a caloric surplus. I think a lot of people have a psychological barrier where as soon as they start a cut they assume they'll stop improving and because of that it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

[Sten Guns]

Every single time I've cut, I've lost a considerable amount of strength.

 

E.g benching 80kg will go from 14 reps to 6.

 

It's ridiculous. I also lose far too much muscle mass.

 

I'm rubbish at cutting

[TheOak88]

Yeah, Layne is very pro-BCAA. I believe he has some research going through peer review which he believes will go a long way to proving their effectiveness, and I'll take a look at it when it comes out. At this point, though, published research on the subject is indifferent at best.

 

Edit: I've seen some people claiming Layne's views on BCAAs are coloured by his role as a Scivation employee. I actually completely disagree, as it just doesn't fit in with his behaviour elsewhere, and think that he truly does believe in BCAA supplementation.

 

You seem to be getting quite confrontational about this. The other guys that I namechecked tend not to be in favour of BCAA use, so what does that prove? Nothing beyond the fact that there isn't an absolute consensus on the extent to which they're useful. I'm also a fan of Borge Fagerli, who is in favour of BCAA use. Not everything's black and white.

 

I phrased my point regarding going catabolic during a workout poorly, or rather made a point which wasn't really relevant (it's more relevant in terms of people obsessing over necking their quick release carbs post-workout, which isn't what we're discussing). You're always in states of both anabolism and catabolism, and it's the net balance over time which is going to count. It's not really important if, during your workout, catabolism outweighs anabolism because it's the net balance over the course of the day/week/whatever extended time period you want to choose that matters. Growth and repair don't take place during your workout anyway.

 

It's not that I don't 'believe' you about food not being a good source of BCAAs; it's that I don't agree with you. Depending on the protein source in question digestion rates can vary, but I'm not talking about getting a meal down you and then training immediately after; I'm talking about having eating something within six hours before your workout. The point could actually be extended to point out that some meals can take up to 72 hours to digest fully.

 

As far as your protein consumption goes, 200g is a perfectly adequate intake. It's not that you're consuming too little on a cut, but more than you need on a bulk. There isn't anything wrong with that if it's what you prefer and works for you, but your protein requirement is an absolute and doesn't change based on whether you're bulking or cutting. My personal opinion is that it should just be kept the same on a bulk or a cut, but plenty of people who normally eat 1g/lb bodyweight will up it slightly when cutting as a safety net. Once you've consumed an adequate amount (ie 1g/lb, which is arguably already too much in most cases anyway) it's about calories in vs calories out, so whether the extra calories are from protein, carbs or fat doesn't matter provided that dietary fat intake is sufficient.

 

You aren't saying that BCAAs are the be all and end all and I'm not saying that they're a complete scam (as is the case with the majority of supplements). What I am saying is that under normal circumstances, with the possible exception of training overnight fasted (which is pretty much the same scenario you've brought up) the money spent buying them could be better spent elsewhere.

 

I wasn't trying to be confrontational in my post. I think I read your first reply as being fairly dismissive of my opinion on BCAA supplements (totally accept I may have just read it in a different tone to what it was intended). It is possible that Layne has a slight biased. I use Scivation BCAA's myself. I think his professional integrity must be worth more to him than a cheap buck from Scivation though ( Although I thought the exact same in the past about Thibs and to a lesser extent Nate Green - then a mate showed me the I, Bodybuilder program Ha!).

 

That's fair enough if you don't agree with me about the food supplying sufficent BCAA issue - as I said when I read your 1st post the way I read it was not that you were expressing an opinion but that you were telling me this is it how it works. Period. (Re-reading my own post you could say the same about mine though TBH).

 

With regards to my protein intake. It's just the way I have seen results. I normally aim for 1.5g/lb bodyweight when bulking. To an extent it probably is overkill, but I have found the higher my protein intake the better my gains - although obviously there will be a cut off point for that. Eating that much protein can be tiresome day in day out - so I probably use the time when I am cutting to lower that.

[Creepy Lurker]

I wasn't trying to be confrontational in my post. I think I read your first reply as being fairly dismissive of my opinion on BCAA supplements (totally accept I may have just read it in a different tone to what it was intended). It is possible that Layne has a slight biased. I use Scivation BCAA's myself. I think his professional integrity must be worth more to him than a cheap buck from Scivation though ( Although I thought the exact same in the past about Thibs and to a lesser extent Nate Green - then a mate showed me the I, Bodybuilder program Ha!).

 

That's fair enough if you don't agree with me about the food supplying sufficent BCAA issue - as I said when I read your 1st post the way I read it was not that you were expressing an opinion but that you were telling me this is it how it works. Period. (Re-reading my own post you could say the same about mine though TBH).

 

With regards to my protein intake. It's just the way I have seen results. I normally aim for 1.5g/lb bodyweight when bulking. To an extent it probably is overkill, but I have found the higher my protein intake the better my gains - although obviously there will be a cut off point for that. Eating that much protein can be tiresome day in day out - so I probably use the time when I am cutting to lower that.

 

Apologies if I came over as confrontational myself, as you say it can be difficult to put tone over in forum posts. I honestly didn't mean to. As I said, I actually agree with you about Layne as nothing I've seen from him anywhere else fits in with the image of someone trying to sell supplements.

 

As far as your protein intake goes I wasn't trying to say you're wrong: I think everyone has to work out what works for them to an extent. Looking at the science is obviously extremely important as a starting point, but at the same time if you know you've seen results by following a particular protocol then the best thing to do is obviously keep doing what you're doing.

 

(Edit: also worth pointing out here you have a lot more actual practical experience of bulking than I do, so it's not really up to me to start questioning what you've actually found works in practice)

 

Looks like we'll have to agree to disagree to an extent about BCAAs, although to be fair I don't think there's a massive disagreement anyway. I do basically agree with you that they can be useful, particularly on a cut and when doing fasted cardio, I just think that the advantage they give is probably quite small and can normally be achieved without needing to buy them.

Edited February 18, 2013 by Creepy Lurker

[Boaby Ewing]

Operation Two-Week Smash Fest commences today. The burd is arriving in NYC in about 12 days, and having not seen her since January I need to get my shit together. I am aware this goes against most long-term fitness planning, but it's also what a lot of folk do a lot of the time if they're being honest.

 

I don't expect a six-pack at the end or to massively increase the amount I'm lifting, but want to tone up a bit/disguise the fact that our two months apart has seen the local restaurants and pubs report a significant rise in takings.

 

Despite not having done any structured training for about eight months I've done enough to maintain a reasonable level of fitness, lifting once or twice a week, running 5 or 10kms once a week, and playing fives.

 

To keep me motivated I will try and post up here what I'm doing each day + diet. Feel free to rip the pish/offer constructive advice/label me an alcoholic (Lawson) as we go.

Edited February 18, 2013 by Dave de le Noir

[Stuart McNeill]

I am a inexperienced gym user and find it really difficult to know what to do especially being asthmatic!

 

I try stick to Cardio - just now, so I can breathe a lot better! (Any advice will be happily taken on what's good go btw).

 

 

However went to the gym (Pure) and the place was packed, I eventually got onto a bike and was setting up my phone and the machine and 3 girls beside me were talking about how much they drank on Friday night and what there plans for the weekend coming up, while walking at snails pace and on there phones!

 

I'm never going back the gym at 6 o'clock again, probably the single most stupid thing I thought tbh, however that did piss me off a lot!

 

 

[Generic Username]

I am a inexperienced gym user and find it really difficult to know what to do especially being asthmatic!

 

I try stick to Cardio - just now, so I can breathe a lot better! (Any advice will be happily taken on what's good go btw).

 

 

However went to the gym (Pure) and the place was packed, I eventually got onto a bike and was setting up my phone and the machine and 3 girls beside me were talking about how much they drank on Friday night and what there plans for the weekend coming up, while walking at snails pace and on there phones!

 

I'm never going back the gym at 6 o'clock again, probably the single most stupid thing I thought tbh, however that did piss me off a lot!

 

Here's a great tip for using PureGym - go after the last class at night. That way the place is a lot quieter and there's not as many idiot dames waltzing about the place. Or before the first class.

 

I usually go for around 9pm during the week and 7:00/7:30 if I'm there at the weekend.

 

It's idiot free.

[TheOak88]

I'm thinking about cutting but I've never done it before, I'd imagine a few folk are in the same boat.

 

I know the basics and have done a bit of reading, just looking for some past experience really.

 

Few questions I have to start off:

 

Is there a specific time you should start if you want to be in good shape by the summer?

 

How long should a cut last?

 

How did you get around drinking at the weekend and factoring that into your cut?

 

That's three things I'm wondering about just now, any more info welcome.

 

I think your questions have already been answered for you. What is your diet/training going to look like?

 

Might be a good idea to take before and after pictures - if your cutting for say 12-13 weeks it can be quite difficult to remember what you looked like at the beginning of the cut. Scales can be a false indicator of progress.

[Generic Username]

There was a boy at PureGym in Gorgie last night, sat on the lateral pull down machine for 25 minutes. Just yanking away at it, for 25 minutes. The shitting Christ is that all about?

[Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC]

I think your questions have already been answered for you. What is your diet/training going to look like?

 

Might be a good idea to take before and after pictures - if your cutting for say 12-13 weeks it can be quite difficult to remember what you looked like at the beginning of the cut. Scales can be a false indicator of progress.

 

I'm currently doing the tentigers full body workout which has been good, going to switch to a 3 day split for the cut. Going to add 2 or 3 days cardio on top of that. 15/20 minutes HIIT and then 10/15 steady state. I go against the grain a bit in that I absolutely love cardio. Focuses my mind!

 

Just taking 500 calories off my maintenance, I try to eat as 'clean' as possible most of the time anyway (sorry Creepy Lurker ). Will cut out bread and pasta completely.

 

Yeah will be doing the before and after pictures, seems to be the best way to measure it and good for motivation. Will do it every 2 weeks I think.

Edited February 20, 2013 by Alan Partridge

[Snake Plissken]

I broke through a couple of plateaus with legs tonight, pleased but also dreading tomorrow.

[Creepy Lurker]

Just taking 500 calories off my maintenance, I try to eat as 'clean' as possible most of the time anyway (sorry Creepy Lurker ). Will cut out bread and pasta completely.

 

The only way for me to deal with this is to hunt you down and bore **** out of you. Don't think I won't do it.

[Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC]

What's the the ten tigers full body workout like. Been searching about for new routine, due to change up in just over a week, and considered it as option.

 

I'm currently doing a 3 day split which I can recommend. Link below if your interested.

 

http://www.muscleand...ding-split.html

 

Good forum for routines if anyone's is looking for suggestions.

 

Cheers bud will check it out.

 

Tentigers is a full body workout consisting of compounds only.

 

All the info you need is on this thread

 

http://www.menshealth.co.uk/community/forums/thread/381917

 

Good routine and is one where you have to put the effort in every single time!

[JC]

 

 

What's the the ten tigers full body workout like. Been searching about for new routine, due to change up in just over a week, and considered it as option.

 

I'm currently doing a 3 day split which I can recommend. Link below if your interested.

 

http://www.muscleandstrength.com/workouts/shaun--s-3-day-muscle-building-split.html

 

Good forum for routines if anyone's is looking for suggestions.

 

If you're looking for something new to shake up and shock your training give German Volume Training a go.

 

I gave it a 5 week stint before Xmas and although hard and mundane there was something strangely satisfying about it. Going to give it another go after I've recovered from an op. I warn you now it is hard but you'll get result from it.

[TheOak88]

If you're looking for something new to shake up and shock your training give German Volume Training a go.

 

I gave it a 5 week stint before Xmas and although hard and mundane there was something strangely satisfying about it. Going to give it another go after I've recovered from an op. I warn you now it is hard but you'll get result from it.

 

The main problem with GVT - as you say - is that it is really boring. If your gym isn't that well equipped it also means you are kinda hogging the equipment for ages, as it takes a long time to get through 10 sets.

[TheOak88]

Cheers bud will check it out.

 

Tentigers is a full body workout consisting of compounds only.

 

All the info you need is on this thread

 

http://www.menshealt...s/thread/381917

 

Good routine and is one where you have to put the effort in every single time!

 

I had never heard of the Tentigers Routine. I don't normally rate full body routines but I like the look of that one. Looks like a good routine - especially for beginners trying to build up their strength.

[Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC]

Recovery is tough sometimes. I don't have many issues upper body but legs is a killer in that particular routine. Hitting them 3 times a week so your just in constant pain. Looking forward to a split where it's once a week!

 

I've found that to be very good overall though, it has everything you could possible need.

[The Brow]

Recovery is tough sometimes. I don't have many issues upper body but legs is a killer in that particular routine. Hitting them 3 times a week so your just in constant pain. Looking forward to a split where it's once a week!

 

I've found that to be very good overall though, it has everything you could possible need.

 

I found that when I first started lifting weights I'd be dead the next day. Started doing 10-15 mins stretching and using a real hard foam roller before and after every workout (4-5 times a week) now means that I get very little stiff/soreness the next day. Also on the fish oil which is making a bit of a difference.

 

I went heavy today. Did 3-3-3-3-3 (going up in 2.5kg increments) sets of Overhead Squats, Front Squats and Back Squats all from a rack. Maxed out at 42.5/72.5/92.5 for each. The next few hours could be painful! Finished up with 5 mins of skipping double-unders.

[Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC]

I found that when I first started lifting weights I'd be dead the next day. Started doing 10-15 mins stretching and using a real hard foam roller before and after every workout (4-5 times a week) now means that I get very little stiff/soreness the next day. Also on the fish oil which is making a bit of a difference.

 

I went heavy today. Did 3-3-3-3-3 (going up in 2.5kg increments) sets of Overhead Squats, Front Squats and Back Squats all from a rack. Maxed out at 42.5/72.5/92.5 for each. The next few hours could be painful! Finished up with 5 mins of skipping double-unders.

 

I've always been told that stretching is counter productive when lifting. Might give it a go for my hamstrings because that's where I am messed for days after.

[Creepy Lurker]

Would definitely recommend dynamic stretching and foam rolling before lifting. Felt that I recovered much better when I used to do it, but ended up stopping as it was taking too long and I couldn't be arsed basically.

[The Brow]

I've always been told that stretching is counter productive when lifting. Might give it a go for my hamstrings because that's where I am messed for days after.

 

I'll be honest, I cannot fathom how warming up (stretching) can possibly be bad for lifting. Surely lifting whilst 'tight' is far worse? That was my problem as well due to too much running and football. Remember and stretch everything as its all connected. My hamstrings used to be real tight but as soon as I started rolling my lower back, it went away.

 

Creepy raises a good point about it taking too long but I find I definitely need it. Also means I can train more days per week without feeling 75 years old the next day.

[Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC]

I'll be honest, I cannot fathom how warming up (stretching) can possibly be bad for lifting. Surely lifting whilst 'tight' is far worse? That was my problem as well due to too much running and football. Remember and stretch everything as its all connected. My hamstrings used to be real tight but as soon as I started rolling my lower back, it went away.

 

Creepy raises a good point about it taking too long but I find I definitely need it. Also means I can train more days per week without feeling 75 years old the next day.

 

I can't mind the exact reason but was recommended to warm up with lighter weights first and then stretch after your work out. Think it was because stretching loosens the tissue and increases the chance of injury?

 

Could be shite though and obviously if you are doing it in real life with no issues then it works for you.

 

To be honest I've been happy to go along with that theory because I can't be bothered stretching, hated it when I played for a fitbaw team.

[The Brow]

What's people opinions on lifting straps? Going to start using for some deadlifting as struggle with the grip and a couple other excercises.

 

Though not sure if better just lifting Lower weight where I can keep a better grip?

 

Does it really matter?

 

My only problem is that they compensate for a lack of technique OR grip thus allowing you to go heavier but some folk then go too long wearing them all the time and lose their proper technique. Like people who use lifting shoes all the time then cant do a snatch squat even when using just a 20kg bar.

 

Each to their own though!

[PaulHartley10]

How many reps and sets is better for achieving weight loss? I'm not talking serious weight loss as I'm only about 15 stone. I'm currently doing 30mins cross trainer, 30 on the bike and 15 rowing, but can't help but feel I could do more.

 

My understanding is that it's a lower weight and lots of reps for weight loss, but I could be talking crap. The gym I use is mostly machine weights unfortunatly but if you have any thoughts on what I should be using, I'd like to know. I have some small man tits and have a fear or enlargening what's already there with muscle I mainly use the lat pull down and bicep curl...probably not helping me achieve very much!

 

Cheers.

[Creepy Lurker]

Static stretching before training isn't normally seen as a good idea, but dynamic stretching is. Imo, static stretching is better used to 'cool down' at the end of a session.

[Walrus]

Took the week off lifting.

 

[TheOak88]

How many reps and sets is better for achieving weight loss? I'm not talking serious weight loss as I'm only about 15 stone. I'm currently doing 30mins cross trainer, 30 on the bike and 15 rowing, but can't help but feel I could do more.

 

My understanding is that it's a lower weight and lots of reps for weight loss, but I could be talking crap. The gym I use is mostly machine weights unfortunatly but if you have any thoughts on what I should be using, I'd like to know. I have some small man tits and have a fear or enlargening what's already there with muscle I mainly use the lat pull down and bicep curl...probably not helping me achieve very much!

 

Cheers.

 

If you just purely want to lose weight. I wouldn't worry too much about lifting - if you want to do it then go for it - but it will make little difference what volume and rep scheme you are using.

 

For weight loss - get your diet sorted and do plenty of hard cardio.