Fitness Thread

[Guest GhostHunter]

Great video that, Sten. Boy explains it almost to perfection.

 

The muscle soreness people experience the couple of days after a heavy weight session comes from unaccustomed eccentric exericse (the negative part of the rep). If you're training properly, you should still feel a degree of muscle soreness after a weights workout no matter how lon you've been training. You'll also get much better gains by emphasising the contraction and the negative.

 

After an exceptionally heavy shrugs session today, changing it to supposedly the method Tom Hardy uses/d - ie up and back - soreness is my middle name.

[ellsbells]

 

 

After an exceptionally heavy shrugs session today, changing it to supposedly the method Tom Hardy uses/d - ie up and back - soreness is my middle name.

 

Good stuff Dex! If you're a bit tender today, wait til you lift your head off the pillow tomorrow...ouch.

 

All a sign of a good workout though. I believe the saying is "no pain, no gain"!

[Hansel]

What are folk taking for their post workout munch and how long after?

 

I usually take 3 spoons of hobey straight after then my high carbs & protein shake about 10-15 minutes later to stop me talking bollox, I mean turning catabolic

 

But, just watched a video by the twins saying that you should wait an hour to allow the growth hormones to take maximum effect.

Anyone else do that?

 

 

[Creepy Lurker]

What are folk taking for their post workout munch and how long after?

 

I usually take 3 spoons of hobey straight after then my high carbs & protein shake about 10-15 minutes later to stop me talking bollox, I mean turning catabolic

 

But, just watched a video by the twins saying that you should wait an hour to allow the growth hormones to take maximum effect.

Anyone else do that?

http://youtu.be/PH7CPh8u2RA

 

Getting quick absorbing protein/carbs down after workout is a total myth propagated by supplement companies wanting you to waste your money on those shakes.

 

The Hodge twins are total idiots who have succeeded in spite of themselves.

Edited February 1, 2013 by Creepy Lurker

[Guest GhostHunter]

Getting quick absorbing protein/carbs down after workout is a total myth propagated by supplement companies wanting you to waste your money on those shakes.

 

The Hodge twins are total idiots who have succeeded in spite of themselves.

 

High protein shakes after a workout aren't beneficial ??

[Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC]

Getting quick absorbing protein/carbs down after workout is a total myth propagated by supplement companies wanting you to waste your money on those shakes.

 

The Hodge twins are total idiots who have succeeded in spite of themselves.

 

You can't argue with their results though.

 

They often make a good point about how experience of actually doing it is superior to reading the science behind it all. Have to agree with that.

[Hansel]

So does it hinder growth hormones?

[Creepy Lurker]

High protein shakes after a workout aren't beneficial ??

 

I was about to write out a long post on this, but Alan Aragon explains it far better than I do:

 

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=131821473&p=678321011&viewfull=1#post678321011

 

The anabolic window was put forward as a theory a while back, and for obvious reasons supplement companies jumped upon it. There's nothing wrong with taking shakes if they're convenient, fit in with daily macronutrient goals and you aren't bothered about the cost, but there's no special benefits to taking them either post-workout or at any other time. In fact, whey protein tends to be one of the most cost-effective protein sources around and is therefore good if you're on a budget.

 

You do have to laugh at guys who go on about 'eating clean' whilst taking shakes composed mainly of dextrose, though. Makesnosense/10.

[Creepy Lurker]

You can't argue with their results though.

 

They often make a good point about how experience of actually doing it is superior to reading the science behind it all. Have to agree with that.

 

It's undeniable that some people get so obsessed with the science that they neglect the actual training side.

 

The problem with guys like the Hodge twins is that they don't stick to the point that you've cited They mistake correlation with causation and try to give scientific arguments to back up what they do. The science guys aren't denying that what the Hodge twins are doing has worked for them, but are questioning the reasoning given; as an example, they've succeeded due to adequate protein intake and correctly calibrated caloric intake rather than because they're downing postworkout shakes or eating chicken and broccoli (specifically).

 

So does it hinder growth hormones?

 

Trying to manipulate growth hormone levels is an exercise in futility, and in any case I doubt you're even tracking macros. The intellectual masturbation in which you're indulging here is like buying a nice wallpaper for your living room without having bothered to actually buy any bricks, mortar or any other of the basic materials required in order to build the house in which that living room will go.

Edited February 1, 2013 by Creepy Lurker

[Guest GhostHunter]

I was about to write out a long post on this, but Alan Aragon explains it far better than I do:

 

http://forum.bodybui...1#post678321011

 

The anabolic window was put forward as a theory a while back, and for obvious reasons supplement companies jumped upon it. There's nothing wrong with taking shakes if they're convenient, fit in with daily macronutrient goals and you aren't bothered about the cost, but there's no special benefits to taking them either post-workout or at any other time. In fact, whey protein tends to be one of the most cost-effective protein sources around and is therefore good if you're on a budget.

 

You do have to laugh at guys who go on about 'eating clean' whilst taking shakes composed mainly of dextrose, though. Makesnosense/10.

I was about to write out a long post on this, but Alan Aragon explains it far better than I do:

 

http://forum.bodybui...1#post678321011

 

The anabolic window was put forward as a theory a while back, and for obvious reasons supplement companies jumped upon it. There's nothing wrong with taking shakes if they're convenient, fit in with daily macronutrient goals and you aren't bothered about the cost, but there's no special benefits to taking them either post-workout or at any other time. In fact, whey protein tends to be one of the most cost-effective protein sources around and is therefore good if you're on a budget.

 

You do have to laugh at guys who go on about 'eating clean' whilst taking shakes composed mainly of dextrose, though. Makesnosense/10.

 

- I guess I should've waited !

 

I only take high protein shakes as I'm up at 0230 and in the gym for 0400, so it's easier than arseing about in the kitchen at that time and waking everyone up SciMix isn't that expensive, so as long as I'm getting some protein and other shit going in first thing I'm happy.

[Hansel]

Cool. Just trying to make gains Creepy.

 

Not wanting to masturbate and my living room's looking not too bad.

 

Not pretending I know anything about this stuff at all, and just looking for guidance.

[The People's Chimp]

Cool. Just trying to make gains Creepy.

 

Not wanting to masturbate and my living room's looking not too bad.

 

Not pretending I know anything about this stuff at all, and just looking for guidance.

 

Why not? Think of the gainz.

 

[Hansel]

 

 

Why not? Think of the gainz.

 

On second thoughts....

 

I could drink my own semen as a source of protein after my workout.

[The People's Chimp]

On second thoughts....

 

I could drink my own semen as a source of protein after my workout.

 

 

 

:bitgay:

Edited February 1, 2013 by The People's Chimp

[Hansel]

 

 

:bitgay:

Only if its someone else's

[Creepy Lurker]

- I guess I should've waited !

 

I only take high protein shakes as I'm up at 0230 and in the gym for 0400, so it's easier than arseing about in the kitchen at that time and waking everyone up SciMix isn't that expensive, so as long as I'm getting some protein and other shit going in first thing I'm happy.

 

Yeah, sounds like it's convenient for you which is fair enough. As I said, there's nothing wrong with them either. I do use protein supplements myself, just rarely in shake form (protein pancakes, cheesecake, sludge and proats are all wonderful things).

 

Cool. Just trying to make gains Creepy.

 

Not wanting to masturbate and my living room's looking not too bad.

 

Not pretending I know anything about this stuff at all, and just looking for guidance.

 

Sorry if I came over as hostile. I'm not saying not to take the shake, especially if you've struggled to gain weight in the past, just that it isn't a flat out necessity and that manipulations of growth hormone levels are barely relevant to competitive bodybuilders let alone you or I. It's also worth remembering that protein shakes are about as processed as they come. Nothing wrong with that either, but in a domain where people harp on about eating 'clean' whilst drinking gallons of them it's worth remembering.

[Guest GhostHunter]

Talking of bulking up, literally, CNP Pro Mass is some amazing stuff. Doesnt half make you fart though.

 

Used it when I first started, but had to stop as I was trumping uncontrollably at work. Which never went down very well in client meetings.

 

[Hansel]

 

Sorry if I came over as hostile. I'm not saying not to take the shake, especially if you've struggled to gain weight in the past, just that it isn't a flat out necessity and that manipulations of growth hormone levels are barely relevant to competitive bodybuilders let alone you or I. It's also worth remembering that protein shakes are about as processed as they come. Nothing wrong with that either, but in a domain where people harp on about eating 'clean' whilst drinking gallons of them it's worth remembering.

No worries dude. Cheers for the info. As I said, I'm new to all this and there's so much conflicting information out there that its confusing at times. I've only been working out since October and maybe a little too eager to make progress quickly, and when I hear of new methods to make quick gains I'm all over it.

 

Making progress though and I'm pleased that I've stuck at it this far.

[Creepy Lurker]

No worries dude. Cheers for the info. As I said, I'm new to all this and there's so much conflicting information out there that its confusing at times. I've only been working out since October and maybe a little too eager to make progress quickly, and when I hear of new methods to make quick gains I'm all over it.

 

Making progress though and I'm pleased that I've stuck at it this far.

 

You're spot on about the conflicting information. The thing is that both weight gain and loss are simple (which I should clarify doesn't mean easy) processes which are overcomplicated by people with agendas, usually to sell you the latest 'miraculous' diet or supplement. It's purely calories in vs calories out. To maintain/build muscle you need to ensure that protein intake's adequate and to ensure optimal hormone function you need to make sure you're eating enough fat. You need adequate micronutrients (vitamins and minerals) and fibre for health...that's really it. Fitness magazines and websites, which are largely funded through advertisements from supplement companies, deliberately keep the general public misinformed so that they'll keep buying supps. As I said, that's not to say they don't have their place and so on but they need to be seen in context of what they are, which is basically ready meals.

[Sten Guns]

Talking of bulking up, literally, CNP Pro Mass is some amazing stuff. Doesnt half make you fart though.

 

Used it when I first started, but had to stop as I was trumping uncontrollably at work. Which never went down very well in client meetings.

 

 

I'm on my third tub of CNP Pro Mass.

 

I ******* stink.

[ellsbells]

Would completely back up the earlier comments by Creepy here. There is this myth about an "anabolic window" which has spread and has people believing that if they don't get a shake in within 15 minutes of their last set, their workout was a waste of time and they make no gains. Yes protein is useful and adequate amounts will help you pack on the size, however the best forms of protein are dietary forms, as has been pointed out previously. Science confirms both of the above.

 

There are plenty people out there on a strictly tight budget who train hard and eat as much protein through food as they can afford - and make cracking gains, completely dispelling elements of the hype around shakes.

 

Shakes are useful so long as the majority of protein taken in is through food. They are "supplements" and should never be more than that. As is also pointed out, many brand name shakes contain all sorts of processed elements to make them sound good when really they are an expensive way of taking a pish.

 

I'm not telling anyone not to use them as I use them occasionally myself for convenience as I'm on the go a lot, however i'd much rather have a couple of tupperware with a whole food source than a couple of scoops of whey.

 

"Weight gain" shakes are a good way of getting excess calories in for those who find weight gain more difficult, but again be aware of what's in them. A good source of clean carbohydrate bought in bulk will be cheaper and better for you than a supplement. I can pack on weight pretty easily so long as I eat like a horse, and my personal experience is that food is more satisfying and more effective. I also havn't miraculously lost all my muscle when I've had to go without the odd protein shake for a couple of months.

 

 

[Sten Guns]

Ells - word.

 

What do you boys have as night time nutrition?

 

I don't have dinner until 7.30.

 

Bedtime at 10 I'm never that hungry so it's usually a casein shake. Is there something else you'd recommend?

[Creepy Lurker]

I usually have loads of carbs before bed (srs). Big bowls of porridge and stuff. It's really individual and there's no rule on what you should or shouldn't have.

[Guest GhostHunter]

I usually have loads of carbs before bed (srs). Big bowls of porridge and stuff. It's really individual and there's no rule on what you should or shouldn't have.

 

I went through a period trying to shove carbs down my throat before bed, but it didn't agree with me - maybe it was the shock of going from not eating to eating - but I always woke up feeling horrific. Like Sten, I try to eat later and let it settle down before I go to bed..

[Creepy Lurker]

I went through a period trying to shove carbs down my throat before bed, but it didn't agree with me - maybe it was the shock of going from not eating to eating - but I always woke up feeling horrific. Like Sten, I try to eat later and let it settle down before I go to bed..

 

Yeah, different people respond differently to different feeding patterns. Personally I find that a higher carb meal around half past ten (I'm usually in bed by around twelve) helps me to sleep better, but plenty of people find the opposite to be the case. Nutrient timing's very important, but purely on the level of what works best for a given individual.

[ellsbells]

Ells - word.

 

What do you boys have as night time nutrition?

 

I don't have dinner until 7.30.

 

Bedtime at 10 I'm never that hungry so it's usually a casein shake. Is there something else you'd recommend?

 

Usually train around 4/5 and have a high carb meal an hour or so after. I'll usually have some cottage cheese or scrambled egg whites an hour or so before bed.

 

I can and prefer to eat most of my daily carbs in that postworkout meal. I tend not to have them within 2-3 hours of bed though, purely because i feel it sits in my stomach and keeps me awake. Again though, that's completely individualised and there's no right or wrong way regarding carbs at night IMO.

 

The whole "never eat carbs past 8 o c'lock or you'll get fat....!" - absolute NONSENSE.

[Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC]

Cottage cheese and rice crackers before bed. Everyone says cottage cheese is rank but I could eat tubs of it in a sitting.

[BigC]

The whole "never eat carbs past 8 o c'lock or you'll get fat....!" - absolute NONSENSE.

 

As a rule, it's generally good for people who work normal hours, struggle to keep their weight down and haven't exercised that evening and has had their three meals earlier in the day.

 

But it's wasted on anyone who doesn't fall into all of the above categories.

 

I had an argument with a guy in my gym who chastised me when I said I was going home for dinner at 10pm. He cited that rule.

 

I said it didn't apply to people who swim 100 lengths after a back shift.

 

He said, "eating this late is undoing all the good work you've done in the pool".

 

I said that even although I am admittedly training for weight loss, my body still needs to replace the lost calories, and the rule doesn't apply anyway because I'm likely to be up until 2am.

 

He wasn't the slightest bit convinced, but he is a moronic know all, so that doesn't surprise me.

[Creepy Lurker]

As a rule, it's generally good for people who work normal hours, struggle to keep their weight down and haven't exercised that evening and has had their three meals earlier in the day.

 

Yes and no.

 

Fat loss is all about calories in vs calories out. Carb timing is completely irrelevant in this process. If the people you've cited have already met their daily caloric intake late in the day then eating carbs will lead to weight gain. This isn't because they're eating carbs and it isn't because they're doing so late in the day; it's because they're consuming more calories than they're burning.

 

Once protein requirements and minimum fat intake have been met, everything else - p:c:f ratios, meal timing, nutrient timing - is only relevant as a function of personal preference. When you train also isn't directly relevant here, although it does have indirect relevance in terms of performance and recovery (ie personalised nutrient timing = better performance = better long term results).

[Creepy Lurker]

'Clean' eating is a myth and never means the same thing to any two people anyway. See Layne Norton's views:

 

[BigC]

Just starting to see the results from exercising regularly and I go and break my feckin' ankle!

[ellsbells]

Just starting to see the results from exercising regularly and I go and break my feckin' ankle!

 

Nightmare mate, that's terrible. How did that happen?

[Generic Username]

I'm properly struggling with this eating nonsense. Just canny seem to get the right things down my neck so that I'm getting the right amount of calories each day. Feel a lot more confident and comfortable with what I'm doing with myself at the gym but I know I'll not see any proper benefit if I'm not getting the right nutrition.

 

Any recommendations for good high calorie stuff I can be chomping on?

[Creepy Lurker]

I'm properly struggling with this eating nonsense. Just canny seem to get the right things down my neck so that I'm getting the right amount of calories each day. Feel a lot more confident and comfortable with what I'm doing with myself at the gym but I know I'll not see any proper benefit if I'm not getting the right nutrition.

 

Any recommendations for good high calorie stuff I can be chomping on?

 

Ice cream, pop tarts, pizza...

 

Eat a sensible diet including lots of 'healthy' foods, but if you're struggling to eat enough then add things you enjoy. As far as body composition goes, a carb is a carb. Just use your common sense.

 

Edit: I'm being facetious, but only slightly. I'm sure you understand moderation. Things that you can eat more of would be stuff like natural peanut butter, avocado, nuts, seeds and oils. Add 1tbsp olive oil to a meal and you've got an extra 135kcal straight away. Olive oil's 'healthy' by pretty much anyone's standards. Cheese is good. Basically, high fat foods are an easy source of calories.

Edited February 4, 2013 by Creepy Lurker

[BigC]

 

 

Nightmare mate, that's terrible. How did that happen?

 

Stepped off a pavement pished.

 

Good news though! It was misdiagnosed. Just a bad sprain.

[BigC]

Here's some photos!

[Sten Guns]

YUUUUUCK!!

[ellsbells]

Here's some photos!

 

Ouch mate! The demon drink...

 

Least it shouldn't be as long a recovery if it's a sprain. Still a kick in the baws when ur just getting going with ur training tho. Hope it's a quick recovery!

[Hansel]

I'm properly struggling with this eating nonsense. Just canny seem to get the right things down my neck so that I'm getting the right amount of calories each day. Feel a lot more confident and comfortable with what I'm doing with myself at the gym but I know I'll not see any proper benefit if I'm not getting the right nutrition.

 

Any recommendations for good high calorie stuff I can be chomping on?

One thing that helped me keep track of what I'm taking in is the 'My fitness pal' app.

 

Puts the mind at rest a bit with knowing how much I've got left to eat in a day, and not lying in bed thinking "did I eat enough".

[Chrambo]

Can anyone suggest good foods/snacks to be going for? I'm 6"2 and about 12 stone 9, struggling to put the weight on. I eat a fair amount but looking to up that by quite a bit, I've read the info on here about how it doesn't always have to be clean eating too. Basically just looking for some suggestions for meals and snacks, while trying to keep it fairly cheap as I am a student.

[Chrambo]

Should also add that I usually shop in asda/morrisons but have considered using the likes of Lidl or Aldi, would people suggest this and could I get everything from there and would I need to make a trip to a both.

[Creepy Lurker]

Can anyone suggest good foods/snacks to be going for? I'm 6"2 and about 12 stone 9, struggling to put the weight on. I eat a fair amount but looking to up that by quite a bit, I've read the info on here about how it doesn't always have to be clean eating too. Basically just looking for some suggestions for meals and snacks, while trying to keep it fairly cheap as I am a student.

 

I don't mean to seem like I'm constantly repeating the same point here, and I also don't want to seem like I'm advising people to make up their diet mainly of nutrient sparse foods, but the answer's basically just anything you enjoy. The easiest way to make yourself eat more is by eating stuff you like. Alternatively, liquids tend to be less satiating than solids, so stuff like chocolate milk made with full fat milk will add the calories on easily. If you've got a blender then a homemade 'gainer' made with whole milk, PB, banana, oats, honey or whatever will do the same job.

 

Baked beans are good. One tin of Tesco Value baked beans provides a macronutrient breakdown of 370 kcal / 15.6p / 61.4c / 2.2f and costs 28p. It also provides 18.4g fibre. Have a tin on a couple of slices of toast with grated cheese or scrambled eggs, or on a baked potato with cheese, and you're pretty much sorted for a low-cost, high-calorie, nutritious snack.

 

Baked beans are ******* extortionate here. I miss them.

[Chrambo]

 

 

I don't mean to seem like I'm constantly repeating the same point here, and I also don't want to seem like I'm advising people to make up their diet mainly of nutrient sparse foods, but the answer's basically just anything you enjoy. The easiest way to make yourself eat more is by eating stuff you like. Alternatively, liquids tend to be less satiating than solids, so stuff like chocolate milk made with full fat milk will add the calories on easily. If you've got a blender then a homemade 'gainer' made with whole milk, PB, banana, oats, honey or whatever will do the same job.

 

Baked beans are good. One tin of Tesco Value baked beans provides a macronutrient breakdown of 370 kcal / 15.6p / 61.4c / 2.2f and costs 28p. It also provides 18.4g fibre. Have a tin on a couple of slices of toast with grated cheese or scrambled eggs, or on a baked potato with cheese, and you're pretty much sorted for a low-cost, high-calorie, nutritious snack.

 

Baked beans are ******* extortionate here. I miss them.

 

Thanks mate. Flatmate has a blender so think I might start making more shakes, Unfortunatley I don't like peanut butter which is a nightmare as its been recommended so many times (especially peanut butter on an apple). I don't like nuts at all so can't even have dried nuts as a snack. What's the best way to prepare the oats, leave them in water over night to soften them up?

 

I love beans and have them quite a lot, especially with toast (maybe sometimes too much toast!). I generally do eat fairly well I think just not enough, might have to start shopping once a week and setting out a meal plan for the week as at the moment I shop maybe every 2/3 weeks.

[Generic Username]

What's the deal with protein supplements making your plops go mental? I've had to install a lead panel to the bottom of my shunky.

[Creepy Lurker]

Thanks mate. Flatmate has a blender so think I might start making more shakes, Unfortunatley I don't like peanut butter which is a nightmare as its been recommended so many times (especially peanut butter on an apple). I don't like nuts at all so can't even have dried nuts as a snack. What's the best way to prepare the oats, leave them in water over night to soften them up? I love beans and have them quite a lot, especially with toast (maybe sometimes too much toast!). I generally do eat fairly well I think just not enough, might have to start shopping once a week and setting out a meal plan for the week as at the moment I shop maybe every 2/3 weeks.

 

I find putting in the oats first pretty much negates the need for that. Shame about the PB, though.Have you considered buying fattier cuts of meat? Switching chicken breast for leg, 5% fat mince for 15%, etc adds a lot of calories without it even being noticeable. Cheaper too.

Edited February 5, 2013 by Creepy Lurker

[Hansel]

Man my ass is like a machine gun. Keep going to dump some unwanted cargo and end up with hot air queuing up to evacuate my ringo star.

 

Beans then a shake maybe wasn't the best idea this afternoon.

[Guest GhostHunter]

Man my ass is like a machine gun. Keep going to dump some unwanted cargo and end up with hot air queuing up to evacuate my ringo star.

 

Beans then a shake maybe wasn't the best idea this afternoon.

 

Hehe...

 

Some shakes are worse than others - that Omni MX caused to walk around like I was clenching a peanut in my backside...the fear of letting one go, knowing full well that there is no way it would have been a nice friendly parp, left me petrified.

 

Still - no pain, no gain.

 

 

[Creepy Lurker]

My farts are worse after low protein/fibre meals. See if I eat a lot of ice cream, for example...wow. Enjoyable stuff.

[Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC]

Had this for lunch yesterday.

 

http://www.bbcgoodfood.com/recipes/1897686/feta-and-semidried-tomato-omelette

 

Feta cheese and semi-dried tomato omlette. Stuck a bit of spinach in as well. Unreal and so easy to make.

 

Anyone got any good omlette recipes?

[Generic Username]

Had this for lunch yesterday.

 

http://www.bbcgoodfo...tomato-omelette

 

Feta cheese and semi-dried tomato omlette. Stuck a bit of spinach in as well. Unreal and so easy to make.

 

Anyone got any good omlette recipes?

 

Yeah heard this is quite good;

 

http://www.bbcgoodfood.com/recipes/1897686/feta-and-semidried-tomato-omelette