Bonnie Prince Charlie Posted April 5, 2008 Share Posted April 5, 2008 Has anyone noticed the similarity in CC's and Prancer's posting styles? The only thing that makes me doubt it is CC's ever so slightly better grammar, and I mean ever so slightly. Interesting, though. I think you are indeed right on this one. And by the way CC/Prancer, The Registers of Scotland is the place for accurate details on all property in Scotland, not the ESPC. All property transactions are recorded there. Property prices have never fallen in Scotland. In 1991 they only went up by a small amount and there was more fixed prices but there was no -ve equity, unlike some parts of England. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coppercrutch Posted April 5, 2008 Share Posted April 5, 2008 I think you are indeed right on this one. And by the way CC/Prancer, The Registers of Scotland is the place for accurate details on all property in Scotland, not the ESPC. All property transactions are recorded there. Property prices have never fallen in Scotland. In 1991 they only went up by a small amount and there was more fixed prices but there was no -ve equity, unlike some parts of England. The registrar of Scotland comes out with figures about 3 months after the ESPC. That is why the ESPC figures are easier and quicker to use, but as you say not as reliable as the Registrars. They are fine for noting trends however. Generally pretty similar to what the ESPC figures have stated. You are just another example of someone who has is spouting the party line. No offense to yourself but you have no idea about inflation and how it affects prices & values. Please read some of my posts above. After that have a think back to what the inflation figures were in 1991. I think you will find values did fall. And value is far more important than 'prices'. People just can't seem to understand this very simple logic. I have no idea why. http://www.watsonwyatt.com/europe/pubs/statistics/render2.asp?ID=1 BTW: ?228K - ?222K - ?215K. Explain to me how that is not 'falling' and you can have yourself 10,000k. Honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flecktimus Posted April 6, 2008 Share Posted April 6, 2008 Of course I can, I just sneak them upstairs !!! BTW you are starting to give me the impression you are not happy with my predictions. Possibly because it is not what you want to hear ? Possibly because you have recently bought a house at near 100% per chance ? Nothing wrong with your predictions they are your opinion and thats fine.Most recent house i bought was a nice little flat 20% BMV. A nice little house for free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coppercrutch Posted April 6, 2008 Share Posted April 6, 2008 Nothing wrong with your predictions they are your opinion and thats fine.Most recent house i bought was a nice little flat 20% BMV. A nice little house for free. I don't understand. 'Market value' is whatever someone is willing to pay for something. So there is no such thing as 'Below market value'. Whatever you paid for it IS THE MARKET VALUE. Because if someone could get more for it they would. Not complicated, unless you believe seminars from people telling you how to become a 'property millionaire'..... And secondly how did you get the house for free ? Have I missed something... If you know what you are doing then I am sure you will be fine. If however you have just swallowed the brainwashing then good luck to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peebo Posted April 6, 2008 Share Posted April 6, 2008 Nothing wrong with your predictions they are your opinion Apparently, they are not all actually his opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peebo Posted April 6, 2008 Share Posted April 6, 2008 'Market value' is whatever someone is willing to pay for something. So there is no such thing as 'Below market value'. Whatever you paid for it IS THE MARKET VALUE. Because if someone could get more for it they would. In a world of imperfect information, it is quite possible to buy something at a price below the generally accepted "market value". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Heaney Posted April 6, 2008 Share Posted April 6, 2008 I don't understand. 'Market value' is whatever someone is willing to pay for something. So there is no such thing as 'Below market value'. Whatever you paid for it IS THE MARKET VALUE. Because if someone could get more for it they would. Not complicated, unless you believe seminars from people telling you how to become a 'property millionaire'..... And secondly how did you get the house for free ? Have I missed something... If you know what you are doing then I am sure you will be fine. If however you have just swallowed the brainwashing then good luck to you. CC. Thats nonsense and you know that. Of course there can be an instance of below market value. I price homes every day for a living and I can assure you below market value exists, just as above market value does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flecktimus Posted April 6, 2008 Share Posted April 6, 2008 I don't understand. 'Market value' is whatever someone is willing to pay for something. So there is no such thing as 'Below market value'. Whatever you paid for it IS THE MARKET VALUE. Because if someone could get more for it they would. Not complicated, unless you believe seminars from people telling you how to become a 'property millionaire'..... And secondly how did you get the house for free ? Have I missed something... If you know what you are doing then I am sure you will be fine. If however you have just swallowed the brainwashing then good luck to you. Never been to a property seminar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flecktimus Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 I don't understand. And secondly how did you get the house for free ? Have I missed something... Cant let you know about that as JKB has an advertiser who wants to let you know this information at a cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coppercrutch Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 CC. Thats nonsense and you know that. Of course there can be an instance of below market value. I price homes every day for a living and I can assure you below market value exists, just as above market value does. I don't agree. So you price homes. You say something is worth say $300k for arguments sake. Fine that is now what you think is the 'market value'. If no-one offers that amount in 6 months, someone comes along and offers 250k then 250k IMMEDIATELY becomes the new market value. Market value means nothing until someone pays it. Just ask all the people in the UK who are trying to sell their New build 'investments' at 'market value' at the moment..... They are very quickly finding that their 'market value' changes by the day... Maybe you have a different description of what a 'market value' is. Fair enough. But IMO it is pointless and means nothing until someone offers that amount in cold hard cash. What you are providing people with, IMO, is a 'guestimate'. It is neither right, not wrong, just an opinion. As they say, 'value' is an opinion, debt is real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coppercrutch Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 Apparently, they are not all actually his opinion. I think you will find that my 'opinion' that house prices in Edinburgh are falling is indeed a fact. I have yet to get somone to take up the following: ?228K - ?222K - ?215K. Explain to me how that is not 'falling' and you can have yourself 10' date='000k. Honest.[/quote'] Strange that - 10k for being right. When of course I am clearly not right because 'House prices in Edinburgh have never fallen before'. As I keep on being told by countless posters on this thread !!!! 10k is sitting waiting here people. Why don't any of you want it ? Why can't any of you simply BRING YOURSELVES TO ADMIT THE FACTS !!! Fear is an interesting thing. This thread has really opened my eyes to what fear will do. People will simply ignore facts and deny they exist. Even if they are staring them in the face. Very interesting. And quite scary. Not for my sake, but for others..... By the time they wake up to the facts it will be too late. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coppercrutch Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 Cant let you know about that as JKB has an advertiser who wants to let you know this information at a cost. I see. Interesting. So you can pay someone and they will tell you how to get a house for free ? Well good luck to you. But it seems a little too good to be true. Generally when something sounds a little too good to be true then................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flecktimus Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 I see. Interesting. So you can pay someone and they will tell you how to get a house for free ? Well good luck to you. But it seems a little too good to be true. Generally when something sounds a little too good to be true then................. It only seems to good to be true because you dont have the knowledge but you can learn.But i am very surprised you dont after the statement I KNOW MORE THAN EDINBURGH ESTATE AGENTS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coppercrutch Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 Intersting to see the mainstream media FINALLY waking up to what is going on. I would have thought the economics editor of the Guardian would have more of a clue than some random poster on JKB - but at least he is catching up. http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008/apr/07/economics.banking "Many who bought a two-bed flat in a city centre anywhere in Britain are now finding they can't afford the mortgage repayments and the value of the property is dropping fast" "Britons are also carrying record levels of debt" "But it has not been hit by anything like this credit calamity for a very long time, if ever. This is the big one" "The idea that we can escape the impact of what is happening in America is just wishful thinking. There was some optimism in financial markets last week that the worst of the credit crunch might be over. These are the same markets that failed to predict the credit crunch and are the root cause of this misery, so their opinion, frankly, is not worth much" "Housing bubble "The reality is that the economy has been pumped up and up in the past decade by the cheap and easy availability of credit. Now it is neither cheap nor plentiful and the fallout is hurting" "For one thing the housing market bubble - in a way we knew all along it was a bubble - has been *****ed and is starting to deflate rapidly." "House prices are not going to drift quietly sideways over the next few years while average earnings catch up. They are going to fall sharply. I would be surprised if they don't fall by a quarter or more over the next two years" "It is not just about the supply of credit, it is about mentality - the fear and greed syndrome. Who would buy a property, even if they could get a mortgage, if they thought they could wait another year and pay, say, 10% less?" "Estate agents report they have stacks of properties for sale but simply can't shift them. So supply is plentiful and demand has dried up. In most markets, that means prices fall. Why should the housing market be different?" -------------------------------------------------------------------------- This guy still thinks that interest rates cuts are going to be some magic bullet to all these issues. So he clearly still has a lot to learn. But he is getting there. I would give him a 7/10 for this article. Funny all these journalists and 'economics experts' suddenly coming up with this sort of stuff. Trying to get in there so in a few years time they can quote themselves bragging about how right they were... It is funny because numpties like me have seen this coming for years. I don't write for a newspaper. I have zero qualifications in economics. And yet I know more than most people that SHOULD have a clue. Interesting times ahead people. Don't say you weren't warned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coppercrutch Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 It only seems to good to be true because you dont have the knowledge but you can learn.But i am very surprised you dont after the statement I KNOW MORE THAN EDINBURGH ESTATE AGENTS I know more than them when it comes to where things are heading. I never said I know how to get a house for 'free'. As I said I would be very careful if I were you. People don't generally advertise all their secrets of 'how to make a quick buck'...................... Quick question. If you have bought a flat for "20% below market value" what are your plans if it should lose 21% over the next few years.............. Not much profit to be made there as far as I can see. Or is this another 'secret' from some online advertisment.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missed98 Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 Afraid not, they are moving soon too so I am out in the big bad World as well. Abbey have just announced they are raising all their rates on all mortgages by 0.3%. This just a day after the BoE kept rates on hold. The banks are just making up their own minds on rates at the moment. Savers are not doing that great either. http://www.mortgagesolutions-online.com/public/showPage.html?page=733176 Think I heard there could be about 2 million Brits in the same position as you this year Chip. Payments all of a sudden shooting up. And at the same time the price of oil, gas and food is shooting up as well. If this doesn't cause a serious economic downturn and housing crash I don't know what will. Ya dancer, from someone who just went back to renting 2 months ago and working in the O&G industry, im gonna be quids in then....... Seriously though, I wonder what your views are on the housing boom in UAE???? A country I will add which is linked to the dollar (saves you looking that bit up). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peebo Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 http://http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/topstories/Housing-crisis-deepens-as-city.3953809.jp All those "buy"-to-let fools are gonna be crapping themselves now. Wait a minute...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Payton Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 http://http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/topstories/Housing-crisis-deepens-as-city.3953809.jp All those "buy"-to-let fools are gonna be crapping themselves now. Wait a minute...... Link doesn't seem to be working for me Peebo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flecktimus Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 I know more than them when it comes to where things are heading. I never said I know how to get a house for 'free'. As I said I would be very careful if I were you. People don't generally advertise all their secrets of 'how to make a quick buck'...................... Quick question. If you have bought a flat for "20% below market value" what are your plans if it should lose 21% over the next few years.............. Not much profit to be made there as far as I can see. Or is this another 'secret' from some online advertisment.... In answer to your question i would take a 1% loss if i sold over the next few years with your scenario, but i am not planning on selling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flecktimus Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 Link doesn't seem to be working for me Peebo. http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/topstories/Housing-crisis-deepens-as-city.3953809.jp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coppercrutch Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 http://http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/topstories/Housing-crisis-deepens-as-city.3953809.jp All those "buy"-to-let fools are gonna be crapping themselves now. Wait a minute...... Well if you want to believe the evening news that is fine. They have to say something is 'booming' because the thought of both sale prices and rents going down at the same time is more than than they can handle. The EN is a PR machine for the ESPC and various solicitors. This is so obvious it is embarresing. Interesting point made in the comments section by some rather smart chap ( No it wasn't me before you say !! ) "If the BTL market is booming, why did the Steward Saunders agency - a specialist in punting BTLs - experience a total collapse and go into liquidation as a result" People do not generally believe what the EN tells them. Fact is there are plenty of flats to rent in Edinburgh. There are more and more new builds going up all over the place. Maybe getting a really nice place in the location you want will be difficult. I am sure that has always been the case however. Problem with rent is you cannot simply increase the amount willy nilly. People can get loans to pay for a house. They cant get loans to pay for their rent (Within reason) Look at the quote from the EA. "People aren't getting the mortgages to buy so they are looking to rent. It is tough for people but the rental market needed a boost because over the last ten years rents haven't changed much." So please tell, how have rents stayed the same for the last 10 years when there is a desperate housing shortage in this city ? It is all nonsense. Demand and supply of housing is of course important. Demand and supply of easy credit is 100 times more important however. Any economist with any sense of reality will know that. The EN story is propaganda. Something in housing has to boom. Doesn't matter what. As long as they can get some sort of headline with 'Soar' in it. Pretty pathetic really. Oh I just had a thought. What figures are due out this week ? Oh yes the latest ESPC sales figures. That will no doubt show Edinburgh's property prices falling even further. I wonder what the headline for that will read........................... AND I WONDER WHY THE ABOVE STORY HAS JUST BEEN RELEASED.... WAKE UP PEOPLE !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coppercrutch Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 BTW I have just done a search on lettingweb.com. Results: Between ?600-?700 in Edinburgh 2 bedrooms for rent. 265 properties Between ?700-?800 in Edinburgh 2 bedrooms for rent. 124 properties Between 800-900 in Edinburgh 2 bedrooms for rent. 47 properties And ACCORDING TO AN EA THE AVERAGE PRICE IS PER ?800 MONTH. STRANGE THAT. AND THEY COULD ALSO GO UP TO ?1200 THIS YEAR !! The guy is taking the mick out of you lot. Wake up !! Have a look at this thread. Have a look at WHO HAS POSTED FACTS AND FIGURES. Have a look at who has not. Wake up people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coppercrutch Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 In answer to your question i would take a 1% loss if i sold over the next few years with your scenario, but i am not planning on selling. Well if you plan to live in it then good luck to you. If you plan to rent it out then you could be in for a nasty surprise. Even if you got it for 20% off. But at least you are putting your money where your mouth is unlike many other posters on this thread !! I hope if this is an investment it has nothing to do with "BTL", "Leverage" or "capital gains". If it does you could be in big trouble. Leverage is great on the way up. Devastating on the way down. Just look at any US bank for confirmation of this.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coppercrutch Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 http://http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/topstories/Housing-crisis-deepens-as-city.3953809.jp All those "buy"-to-let fools are gonna be crapping themselves now. Wait a minute...... Oh wait a minute.... I have just completely demolished that nonsense of a story in a matter of minutes. Next................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coppercrutch Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 Ya dancer, from someone who just went back to renting 2 months ago and working in the O&G industry, im gonna be quids in then....... Seriously though, I wonder what your views are on the housing boom in UAE???? A country I will add which is linked to the dollar (saves you looking that bit up). If it all pans out like I think you shoudl be quids in !! Nice timing. Afraid I don't know much about UAE. Although it is generally accepted that the dollar and the pound are in for a tanking. As for property in UAE I have no clue. If it has shot up ridiculously over the past few years common sense will tell you what is coming. If not then maybe it could be a decent place to buy. Investigate it yourself and DONT BELIEVE WHAT ESTATE AGENTS TELLS YOU !! Have a look at this site below. I get a lot of info from here. A few crackpots are on it but generally just common sense all round. People who can see through the lies and spin. You may find someone who lives over there and can give you an HONEST view on the situation. http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?showforum=31 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Heaney Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 I don't agree. So you price homes. You say something is worth say $300k for arguments sake. Fine that is now what you think is the 'market value'. If no-one offers that amount in 6 months, someone comes along and offers 250k then 250k IMMEDIATELY becomes the new market value. Market value means nothing until someone pays it. Just ask all the people in the UK who are trying to sell their New build 'investments' at 'market value' at the moment..... They are very quickly finding that their 'market value' changes by the day... Maybe you have a different description of what a 'market value' is. Fair enough. But IMO it is pointless and means nothing until someone offers that amount in cold hard cash. What you are providing people with, IMO, is a 'guestimate'. It is neither right, not wrong, just an opinion. As they say, 'value' is an opinion, debt is real. CC, as is usual you give good reasoned debate and make sense, however below market value does exist. Here would be my example (and its real believe me). I understand that the markets may be different but the principal should be the same. When we price a home here we would do what is called a CMA on a home, thats a Comparable Market Analysis and it is exactly that, we compare the subject home with recent sales and to a point active listings to come up with a price. Now say in the last 2 months 3 or 4 other comparable homes have sold at $600,000, say there are 2 others on the market at $610,000 but you as a seller of the subject home are more motivated and have enough equity to try sell quick and you list to sell at $570,000 and it sells before the others at $610,000 then the buyer of the $570,000 home has gotten the home at below market value. That one sale at $570,000 does not become the rule it is an exception as the other sales were above that and appraiser would not consider that as a good comparable until there was a pattern of sales at that price. Thats not to say that the others dont come down in price but at that moment in time the $570,000 was below market value Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coppercrutch Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 CC, as is usual you give good reasoned debate and make sense, however below market value does exist. Here would be my example (and its real believe me). I understand that the markets may be different but the principal should be the same. When we price a home here we would do what is called a CMA on a home, thats a Comparable Market Analysis and it is exactly that, we compare the subject home with recent sales and to a point active listings to come up with a price. Now say in the last 2 months 3 or 4 other comparable homes have sold at $600,000, say there are 2 others on the market at $610,000 but you as a seller of the subject home are more motivated and have enough equity to try sell quick and you list to sell at $570,000 and it sells before the others at $610,000 then the buyer of the $570,000 home has gotten the home at below market value. That one sale at $570,000 does not become the rule it is an exception as the other sales were above that and appraiser would not consider that as a good comparable until there was a pattern of sales at that price. Thats not to say that the others dont come down in price but at that moment in time the $570,000 was below market value Cheers for that. I do see where you are coming from. I can understand the above in a normal market place. I can see however this thing moving so fast over here. The sheer number of mortgage deals evaporating is incredible. 17% down in one week !! Mental. This time last year there were circa 17k mortgages. Now we are nearing 3k. The press is finally catching up with reality and talk these days is not 'If' we have a crash but of 'how much'. There are still mortgages out there for people to get. But the lowering in the LTV and the 'rewards' of better rates for 25% deposits ( Halifax the UK's largest mortgage lender just announced) tells me they are expecting falls of at least 25%... As far as the above story in the EN is concerned. Did you see this sort of thing in the US last year ? How long did it take for this to be replaced with peeople being a little more honest about what is going on ? When can we expect the EN to actually tell us the truth In your opinion ? I really do think Edinburgh is the UK version of SD. A place that everyone wants to live where property prices will 'never go down due to demand'. And then a year later...................All change. As I have said this is going to happen to Edinburgh in August. Unless there is a miraculous spike in sale prices over the next 3 months. Just how exactly that could happen is beyond me. I do no expect the figures to be lied about but I do expect them to be kept very quiet. I mean, how many people realise Edinburgh prices have been falling already for 6 months ? Very few. The brainwashing is moving into "desperate overdrive" status IMO !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flecktimus Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 Well if you plan to live in it then good luck to you. If you plan to rent it out then you could be in for a nasty surprise. Even if you got it for 20% off. But at least you are putting your money where your mouth is unlike many other posters on this thread !! I hope if this is an investment it has nothing to do with "BTL", "Leverage" or "capital gains". If it does you could be in big trouble. Leverage is great on the way up. Devastating on the way down. Just look at any US bank for confirmation of this.... Rented on the day i recieved the keys @ 125% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigsmak Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 Interesting thread.. Read it all the way through today for the first time. CC - Some nice points well made. However I would still like to see the source of the 'facts' that you present. A lot of it comes across as hearsay and what you read in the papers. Please do not use Wikipedia as a source of fact as everyone knows you can go and edit it for your own needs. Its good that we are debating this and it will be nice to come back in a year to see who is right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coppercrutch Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 Interesting thread.. Read it all the way through today for the first time. CC - Some nice points well made. However I would still like to see the source of the 'facts' that you present. A lot of it comes across as hearsay and what you read in the papers. Please do not use Wikipedia as a source of fact as everyone knows you can go and edit it for your own needs. Its good that we are debating this and it will be nice to come back in a year to see who is right. Cheers for reading this all !! Most of my 'facts' are backed up by links to various stories etc... In fact I am sure you have noticed I am virtually the only person stating cold hard facts. Those who think there will be no crash seem to rely on hearsy as far as I can see. Although maybe I am biased. Of course there are things I state that may be 'hearsay' but at least I have provided a wealth of information on this thread. Something many others have not - whilst still expecting their argument to be taken seriously Have a look at my destruction of the above Evening News story as the perfect example. A property ramping story in a newspaper. It took me less than half an hour to completely discount it as 100% nonsense. Have a look at all those stating 'Edinburgh prices are not falling'. I have proven (And this is using statisitics from the most anti-crash ESPC;)) that this is in fact completely untrue. They are falling. It is a fact. Ask yourself why the people that state these things don't reply when I prove them wrong? It is simply because they do not want to hear what I have to say. It has nothing to do with whether I am right or wrong. Very difficult to persuade someone when it is something they are desperate not to here. But I think I am getting there. As for looking back in a while to see who was 'right or wrong' you will find I have been saying my point of view for ages on this site. I am already 'right' about a number of things. I don't have too many to go. August Edinburgh negative figures will be the nail in the coffin I reckon. Of course I may be completely wrong and this thing may all blow over. However the chances of this are getting slimmer by the hour. I hope some of my points very uselful to you. Because at the end fo the day that is all I am trying to do. Stopping people from making the biggest mistake of their lives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coppercrutch Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 Rented on the day i recieved the keys @ 125% I think I know where you are coming from. A certain council wouldn't happen to be involved..... Not looked into the details of it myself. Am I right in thinking the kind of people you are renting to could be a problem..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tazio Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 I think I know where you are coming from. A certain council wouldn't happen to be involved..... Not looked into the details of it myself. Am I right in thinking the kind of people you are renting to could be a problem..... If you are speaking about renting to the council then I do that. The rents are paid at 85% of an agreed market rent. The 15% is just over the going rate for a factor. The difference being that you are guaranteed the rent whether the flat is occupied or not. The agreement also states that at the end of the agreed period you opt out then the flat is returned in the condition at the beginning of the agreement. As to the people being a problem then it is strictly controlled by the letting agents and people suitable for the property and area are put into them. The agreement is kosher on both sides and all required licences and certificates must be in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flecktimus Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 I think I know where you are coming from. A certain council wouldn't happen to be involved..... Not looked into the details of it myself. Am I right in thinking the kind of people you are renting to could be a problem..... Nope i find all my own tenants. Mabye you can give me a few pointers as to what i may be missing out on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coco Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 If you are speaking about renting to the council then I do that. The rents are paid at 85% of an agreed market rent. The 15% is just over the going rate for a factor. The difference being that you are guaranteed the rent whether the flat is occupied or not. The agreement also states that at the end of the agreed period you opt out then the flat is returned in the condition at the beginning of the agreement. As to the people being a problem then it is strictly controlled by the letting agents and people suitable for the property and area are put into them. The agreement is kosher on both sides and all required licences and certificates must be in place. Does the agreement cover the physical structure of the flat - roof etc? Because if it does then it would seem that the Council takes on all of the risk? So this would be just another scheme to get Government/local Government borrowing off their balance sheet, similar to PFI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tazio Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 Does the agreement cover the physical structure of the flat - roof etc? Because if it does then it would seem that the Council takes on all of the risk? So this would be just another scheme to get Government/local Government borrowing off their balance sheet, similar to PFI. We need to have a building insurance policy, obviously as this is part of the mortgage agreement. I believe the thinking behind it is to put people who they deem as delicate cases into housing outwith the usual council estate type situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coco Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 We need to have a building insurance policy, obviously as this is part of the mortgage agreement. I believe the thinking behind it is to put people who they deem as delicate cases into housing outwith the usual council estate type situation. i.e. into nicer areas/away from the bad lads sort of thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tazio Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 i.e. into nicer areas/away from the bad lads sort of thing? We were told that the leases involved cases such as women getting away from abusive relationships and young single parents. Ethical leasing in a way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coco Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 We were told that the leases involved cases such as women getting away from abusive relationships and young single parents. Ethical leasing in a way. I see, sounds like a good idea. How long are the agreements the Council gives you? [you don't have to answer if you don't want to!, don't want to know anyone's personal financial issues!] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tazio Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 I see, sounds like a good idea. How long are the agreements the Council gives you? [you don't have to answer if you don't want to!, don't want to know anyone's personal financial issues!] You have a choice of yearly renewal or a 3 year block. The yearly renewal means there is the chance of the money increasing or the 3 year gives you a guaranteed 3 year lease at a fixed rate over the 3 years paid in monthly installments. It worked out well as an option for us when buying a new property. The existing property became a "virtual deposit" on the new place. We don't make any money out of it as such, but it means we have a property that we can hold onto with no large expenditure beyond certificates etc. And a small fee to register as landlords. So all above board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peebo Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 Oh wait a minute.... I have just completely demolished that nonsense of a story in a matter of minutes. Next................... I dread to think what sort of mess was accumulating under your desk between 1.37 and 2.13 this afternoon. Your "demolition" consists of two main aspects, as far as I can tell: A) Your critical appraisal of the Evening News and it's ability to report on this matter objectively. Fair enough. Your regular citing of sites like housepricecrash.co.uk and wikipedia may influence how others view the validity of some of your claims, though. Your statistical analysis of a snapshot of adverts on one website. You may consider that a "demolition", but I hardly think Sly Stallone will be quaking in his boots. As an aside, have you worked out what the read line shows on the graph on housepricecrash.co.uk's home page? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coppercrutch Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 Nope i find all my own tenants. Mabye you can give me a few pointers as to what i may be missing out on. See Tazio's thread for the info. As for myself I don't see property as a great investment at the moment, or any time i the past few years. Long term of course it can do fine, but you have to be in it long term. That is a mistake I fear many people have made in the last couple of years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coppercrutch Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 I dread to think what sort of mess was accumulating under your desk between 1.37 and 2.13 this afternoon. Your "demolition" consists of two main aspects, as far as I can tell: A) Your critical appraisal of the Evening News and it's ability to report on this matter objectively. Fair enough. Your regular citing of sites like housepricecrash.co.uk and wikipedia may influence how others view the validity of some of your claims, though. Your statistical analysis of a snapshot of adverts on one website. You may consider that a "demolition", but I hardly think Sly Stallone will be quaking in his boots. As an aside, have you worked out what the read line shows on the graph on housepricecrash.co.uk's home page? I am sorry but I will have to disagree with your views. I have taken a snapshot of one of Edinburgh's major letting websites. It shows that the average property of a 2 bed flat in the city is well,well,well under 800. I accept that as proof that the aforementioned article is complete nonsense. If you need more evidence then fine. I can go only city lets and do the exact same if you would like ? In fact couldn't help myself !!! RESULTS: 600-700 2 bed in Edinburgh = 241 700-800 2 BED In Edinburgh = 141 800-900 2 bed in Edinburgh = 78 As I said before: DESTROYED DESTROYED DESTROYED DESTROYED DESTROYED DESTROYED DESTROYED QUAKING AS I SPEAK: As for the red line no I don't know what it is. Some long term mean or something maybe ? Maybe you can tell me coz it has not really interested me before. Would be handy to know though. I have looked into a lot of details. Enough to tell me what is coming, and enough for me to be well over 90% confident a crash will occur. Hell some papers are already starting to say it is underway. Compare that to only 9 months ago. The tide has turned. Make no mistake about it. The desperation to prove me wrong on this thread is incredible. And growing by the day. Some posters must be very scared. Well if you are DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT RATHER THAN SITTING HERE TRYING TO DENY THE TRUTH !! I didn;t have to give all the advice. I hope that I have saved enough one poor person from a lifetime of debt slavery. If so I am glad. If I am wrong then so be it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flecktimus Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 See Tazio's thread for the info. As for myself I don't see property as a great investment at the moment: I agree , or any time i the past few years.: Disagree Long term of course it can do fine, but you have to be in it long term. That is a mistake I fear many people have made in the last couple of years:Agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coppercrutch Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 See Tazio's thread for the info. As for myself I don't see property as a great investment at the moment: I agree , or any time i the past few years.: Disagree Long term of course it can do fine, but you have to be in it long term. That is a mistake I fear many people have made in the last couple of years:Agree Well if you have done your research you should be fine. I just hope that you have 'cashed in' on any gains you have made, and are not just hoping that the 'paper value' will realise itself. This whole thing is happening at a scary pace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coppercrutch Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 Woops another one down the drain..... http://www.mortgageintroducer.com/ccstory/227025/4/Abbey_pulls_final_100_per_cent.htm "The last remaining lender in the 100 per cent market, Abbey's decision has hammered the final nail in the coffin for deposit-less buyers" So now NOBODY can get a 100% mortgage anywhere in the UK. (I think there are actually 2 left from random lenders but the conditions are mental - JM correct me if I am wrong !!) Seems the lenders predict a large fall. Probably bracing for 25% plus. Oh well it has been a long time coming. Can't find the details of how many people took out 100% mortgages last year. But it is safe to say they have been completely removed from the market for the foreseeable future. Lucky escape for them. And they probably have no idea:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blairdin Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 Woops another one down the drain..... http://www.mortgageintroducer.com/ccstory/227025/4/Abbey_pulls_final_100_per_cent.htm "The last remaining lender in the 100 per cent market, Abbey's decision has hammered the final nail in the coffin for deposit-less buyers" So now NOBODY can get a 100% mortgage anywhere in the UK. (I think there are actually 2 left from random lenders but the conditions are mental - JM correct me if I am wrong !!) Seems the lenders predict a large fall. Probably bracing for 25% plus. Oh well it has been a long time coming. Can't find the details of how many people took out 100% mortgages last year. But it is safe to say they have been completely removed from the market for the foreseeable future. Lucky escape for them. And they probably have no idea:) Not so - RBS are still offering a 100% mortgage. Sure other lenders will be too, but they will just be far more difficult to obtain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Old Tolbooth Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 Woops another one down the drain..... http://www.mortgageintroducer.com/ccstory/227025/4/Abbey_pulls_final_100_per_cent.htm "The last remaining lender in the 100 per cent market, Abbey's decision has hammered the final nail in the coffin for deposit-less buyers" So now NOBODY can get a 100% mortgage anywhere in the UK. (I think there are actually 2 left from random lenders but the conditions are mental - JM correct me if I am wrong !!) Seems the lenders predict a large fall. Probably bracing for 25% plus. Oh well it has been a long time coming. Can't find the details of how many people took out 100% mortgages last year. But it is safe to say they have been completely removed from the market for the foreseeable future. Lucky escape for them. And they probably have no idea:) I dont have access to the market this week mate, I'm now on garden leave as I'm in between companies. I'll be able to research the market place again at the end of this week hopefully but wouldnt be suprised if the list has refreshed somewhat and there are less to choose from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coppercrutch Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 Not so - RBS are still offering a 100% mortgage. Sure other lenders will be too, but they will just be far more difficult to obtain. You sure ? They may be still advertising one, they can be a little slow to update things..... Anyway, 100% mortgages are pretty much out of the reach of most people at the moment. A certain poster can probably clear this up.. He posted # 249 that RBS no longer do 100%. Although UB is owned by RBS. Confusing these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coppercrutch Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 I dont have access to the market this week mate, I'm now on garden leave as I'm in between companies. I'll be able to research the market place again at the end of this week hopefully but wouldnt be suprised if the list has refreshed somewhat and there are less to choose from. Cheers Mr Mitchell, right on cue !!! Ignore my post above then. Enjoy your leave. Not the best weather for gardening though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Old Tolbooth Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 You sure ? They may be still advertising one, they can be a little slow to update things..... Anyway, 100% mortgages are pretty much out of the reach of most people at the moment. A certain poster can probably clear this up.. He posted # 249 that RBS no longer do 100%. Although UB is owned by RBS. Confusing these days. UB dont do 100% mortgages on the British mainland, only for people in N Ireland as far as I know. At least they didnt the last time I checked their criteria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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