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Official Golf geeks gibber thread

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Old Blue Eyes
24 minutes ago, merrymac said:

Too late for me paid early :ermm:

The only consideration might be if a lot of clubs go to the wall, there may be pressure on those left for memberships?

 

Do you mean pressure on punters looking for an alternative or pressure on surviving golf clubs?

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merrymac
1 minute ago, Old Blue Eyes said:

 

Do you mean pressure on punters looking for an alternative or pressure on surviving golf clubs?

Both really.

Might be lots of golfers and few golf clubs.

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Old Blue Eyes
9 minutes ago, merrymac said:

Both really.

Might be lots of golfers and few golf clubs.

 

Last I heard, only 5 clubs in East Lothian with a waiting list. If clubs do go under, their unfortunate members still willing to maintain a membership could transfer to a stronger surviving club that has also seen their membership decimated. 

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merrymac
Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Old Blue Eyes said:

 

Last I heard, only 5 clubs in East Lothian with a waiting list. If clubs do go under, their unfortunate members still willing to maintain a membership could transfer to a stronger surviving club that has also seen their membership decimated. 

Agreed but these stronger clubs will have a limit on the number of new members they can accommodate.

Sincerely hope it wont happen but demand could  exceed supply for a period on resumption depending on the scale of disruption.

Edited by merrymac

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Old Blue Eyes
1 minute ago, merrymac said:

Agreed but these stronger clubs will have a limit on the number of new members they can accommodate.

Sincerely hope it wont happen but demand could  exceed supply for a period on resumption depending on the scale of disruption.

 

The opposite could happen to the supply and demand, who knows?

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merrymac
9 minutes ago, Old Blue Eyes said:

 

The opposite could happen to the supply and demand, who knows?

Absolutely people might not return after a lengthy break and the demand could go through the floor.

Not an easy time to be a Club Committee

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Victorian

Membership numbers was already a problem before this.    In Edinburgh,  some clubs got a small boost after Torphin and Lothianburn went and members relocated.    It was already a school of thought that Edinburgh and Lothians clubs would benefit from another couple going.     I think it's almost certain now.     Most clubs have outsourced their bar and catering to franchise holders so there might be little loss in terms of that but they do tend to rely on visitor golf fees and clubhouse event hire.

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Old Blue Eyes
10 hours ago, Victorian said:

Membership numbers was already a problem before this.    In Edinburgh,  some clubs got a small boost after Torphin and Lothianburn went and members relocated.    It was already a school of thought that Edinburgh and Lothians clubs would benefit from another couple going.     I think it's almost certain now.     Most clubs have outsourced their bar and catering to franchise holders so there might be little loss in terms of that but they do tend to rely on visitor golf fees and clubhouse event hire.

 

Our annual membership subs are determined/reduced greatly by visitor green fees. Our huge VAT return (visitor green fees/travel agents) from HMRC over the last 10 years has contributed immensely to our current club house extension and renovation programme.

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hmfc_liam06
11 hours ago, Victorian said:

Membership numbers was already a problem before this.    In Edinburgh,  some clubs got a small boost after Torphin and Lothianburn went and members relocated.    It was already a school of thought that Edinburgh and Lothians clubs would benefit from another couple going.     I think it's almost certain now.     Most clubs have outsourced their bar and catering to franchise holders so there might be little loss in terms of that but they do tend to rely on visitor golf fees and clubhouse event hire.

 

Our renewals happen between Feb and March so it's a shocker for us. Although I can see where some folk are coming from re not renewing until they know what's happening it really doesn't help the clubs in their hour of need. Sadly, these actions mean they may not have a club to go back to once this is over.

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Old Blue Eyes
Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, hmfc_liam06 said:

 

Our renewals happen between Feb and March so it's a shocker for us. Although I can see where some folk are coming from re not renewing until they know what's happening it really doesn't help the clubs in their hour of need. Sadly, these actions mean they may not have a club to go back to once this is over.

 

Maybe clubs should look at a monthly DD, instead of one big annual payment.

Edited by Old Blue Eyes

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hmfc_liam06
2 minutes ago, Old Blue Eyes said:

 

Maybe clubs should look at a monthly DD, instead of one big annual payment.

 

The issue then is folk will just cancel them.

Even if you use a 3rd party finance company, if someone cancels it's then the club who are liable to the finance company.

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Tommy Brown
14 minutes ago, Old Blue Eyes said:

 

Maybe clubs should look at a monthly DD, instead of one big annual payment.

 

Very much, I'm going to offer £110 per month over next six months.

Would hate to think the club folding and me being partly to blame.

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Ray Gin
16 minutes ago, Old Blue Eyes said:

 

Maybe clubs should look at a monthly DD, instead of one big annual payment.

Mine already does. 

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Tommy Brown
13 minutes ago, hmfc_liam06 said:

 

The issue then is folk will just cancel them.

Even if you use a 3rd party finance company, if someone cancels it's then the club who are liable to the finance company.

 

Not convinced, Liam

 

we use Fairway Credit?? and default lies with them to recover. I'm sure I'm correct.

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Tommy Brown
1 minute ago, Ray Gin said:

Mine already does. 

 

we do standing order, but you are in advance.

So you have your full subs in the club account for start of the season.

 

Other than that you use Fairway Credit with interest.

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hmfc_liam06
41 minutes ago, Tommy Brown said:

 

Not convinced, Liam

 

we use Fairway Credit?? and default lies with them to recover. I'm sure I'm correct.

 

Nope, if someone cancels their DD at the bank, Fairway Credit will chase the club for the money. I looked into this earlier on in the year for our club. One of our members is also a member at another club and they had 2 members cancel, Fairway Credit then took the money back from the club and they are now left chasing the ex-members through small claims court.

The power is always with the 3rd party. They pay the club the money upfront, they certainly aren't taking a hit or going to the hassle of chasing/court action if someone defaults.

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Old Blue Eyes
54 minutes ago, hmfc_liam06 said:

 

The issue then is folk will just cancel them.

Even if you use a 3rd party finance company, if someone cancels it's then the club who are liable to the finance company.

 

I'm sure the vulnerable clubs would welcome the initial uptake of DD payments, thus enhancing confidence. If individuals financial commitments change going forward, then the club may have a few payments banked, which they wouldn't have if they stick with one lump sum.

 

40 minutes ago, Tommy Brown said:

 

Very much, I'm going to offer £110 per month over next six months.

Would hate to think the club folding and me being partly to blame.

 

Fantastic gesture Tommy, spread the word and only the word, nothing else...:thumbsup:

39 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

Mine already does. 

 

Maybe one day at mine...🤞

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hmfc_liam06
Just now, Old Blue Eyes said:

 

I'm sure the vulnerable clubs would welcome the initial uptake of DD payments, thus enhancing confidence. If individuals financial commitments change going forward, then the club may have a few payments banked, which they wouldn't have if they stick with one lump sum.

 

 

Yeah we do offer payment schemes, we just don't use a 3rd party due to liabilities 👍

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Tommy Brown
46 minutes ago, hmfc_liam06 said:

 

Nope, if someone cancels their DD at the bank, Fairway Credit will chase the club for the money. I looked into this earlier on in the year for our club. One of our members is also a member at another club and they had 2 members cancel, Fairway Credit then took the money back from the club and they are now left chasing the ex-members through small claims court.

The power is always with the 3rd party. They pay the club the money upfront, they certainly aren't taking a hit or going to the hassle of chasing/court action if someone defaults.

 

Thanks for correcting me. Certainly not what I believed was the script.

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SectionG

I received an email saying my April DD Payment has already been processed so will be taken but all future D’s  will not be taken till a month after the course has opened again due to them taking April and we can’t play. Anyone who has paid for the year will have the number of months the course is shut removed from their fees for next year. Was very surprised by this, but a great gesture by the club.

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hmfc_liam06
12 minutes ago, SectionG said:

I received an email saying my April DD Payment has already been processed so will be taken but all future D’s  will not be taken till a month after the course has opened again due to them taking April and we can’t play. Anyone who has paid for the year will have the number of months the course is shut removed from their fees for next year. Was very surprised by this, but a great gesture by the club.

 

Great if you can afford it. I doubt many can.

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hmfc_liam06
21 minutes ago, Tommy Brown said:

 

Thanks for correcting me. Certainly not what I believed was the script.

 

No problem. It was discussed at length at our AGM in January with us opting not to use a 3rd party purely because of liabilities.

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Tommy Brown
17 minutes ago, hmfc_liam06 said:

 

No problem. It was discussed at length at our AGM in January with us opting not to use a 3rd party purely because of liabilities.

Ive been on their site looking for t&c, but their link isnt working.

 

Getting ratty to be honest. I fail to see the benefit in using them. I think you get commission.

I would rather let people pay in full directly over a 6month max period.

 

I'm making enquiries. 

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hmfc_liam06
2 hours ago, Tommy Brown said:

Ive been on their site looking for t&c, but their link isnt working.

 

Getting ratty to be honest. I fail to see the benefit in using them. I think you get commission.

I would rather let people pay in full directly over a 6month max period.

 

I'm making enquiries. 

 

If you unearth info then pass it on, I may be totally wrong but our club captain as well as a few other members have spoken to them before and all said the same thing.

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Tommy Brown
14 minutes ago, hmfc_liam06 said:

 

If you unearth info then pass it on, I may be totally wrong but our club captain as well as a few other members have spoken to them before and all said the same thing.

 

Nah your correct  text ex captain

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merrymac
2 hours ago, Tommy Brown said:

Ive been on their site looking for t&c, but their link isnt working.

 

Getting ratty to be honest. I fail to see the benefit in using them. I think you get commission.

I would rather let people pay in full directly over a 6month max period.

 

I'm making enquiries. 

Tommy,

The main benefit for the Club is that they receive all monies upfront (usually at the start of the season) when costs are at their highest,and the member gets the benefit of paying over 10 months at a reasonable interest rate.

Drawback for the club is they are responsible for any defaulters, which usually is a fairly small number, therefore making it worth the risk.

Has been operating for many years at lots of clubs (including mine), and presume pretty successfully as it is still popular.

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Tommy Brown
1 minute ago, merrymac said:

Tommy,

The main benefit for the Club is that they receive all monies upfront (usually at the start of the season) when costs are at their highest,and the member gets the benefit of paying over 10 months at a reasonable interest rate.

Drawback for the club is they are responsible for any defaulters, which usually is a fairly small number, therefore making it worth the risk.

Has been operating for many years at lots of clubs (including mine), and presume pretty successfully as it is still popular.

 

If I remember, I think they pay up full monies May.

"Start of the season when costs are at their highest" - not disputing, but why?

Greenstaff are always there over the year, bar turnover is at it's highest early then tails off.

I imagine a large % pay in full by bank transfer/credit card (I generally have), so most money is already up front at the start.

 

Not looking for an argument. not been to the last couple of agm's.

 

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merrymac
1 minute ago, Tommy Brown said:

 

If I remember, I think they pay up full monies May.

"Start of the season when costs are at their highest" - not disputing, but why?

Greenstaff are always there over the year, bar turnover is at it's highest early then tails off.

I imagine a large % pay in full by bank transfer/credit card (I generally have), so most money is already up front at the start.

 

Not looking for an argument. not been to the last couple of agm's.

 

No worries Tommy,

Basically high costs over winter - increased heating lighting etc

Also most feeding, coring  seeding happens early in season.(might include hiring in machinery)

Fewer visitors over winter period means that a big cash injection is usually required, around March/April

I am Ex Captain/committee member at my club and this was very much the issue most years

Fairway credit allows the club to receive a lump sum, usually followed by a second payment around July I think)

Might not work for every club, but a lot do use it.

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joondalupjambo
Posted (edited)
59 minutes ago, merrymac said:

 

Drawback for the club is they are responsible for any defaulters, which usually is a fairly small number, therefore making it worth the risk.

When you say defaulters what happens when folk die?  Our club's average age is about 100 and each winter about 10 drop off the edge.  Are the club liable under this type of scheme for these types of "defaulters" or are deaths treated differently by the finance company?

 

No idea but was just thinking about it.

Edited by joondalupjambo

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Tommy Brown
1 minute ago, joondalupjambo said:

When you say defaultets what happens when folk die?  Our club's average age is about 100 and each winter about 10 drop off the edge.  Are the club liable under this type of scheme for these types of "defaultets" or are deaths treated differently by the finance company?

 

No idea but was just thinking about it.

 

A charming use of dialogue  :lol:

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merrymac
22 minutes ago, joondalupjambo said:

When you say defaulters what happens when folk die?  Our club's average age is about 100 and each winter about 10 drop off the edge.  Are the club liable under this type of scheme for these types of "defaulters" or are deaths treated differently by the finance company?

 

No idea but was just thinking about it.

Interesting angle😄

I have to admit defeat on that particular subject 😂

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hmfc_liam06
1 hour ago, Tommy Brown said:

 

Nah your correct  text ex captain

 

Cheers, I thought so :thumbsup:

 

There's also the initial set up cost to factor in as well.

 

Re deaths, I'd imagine that may be a totally different scenario.

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Irufushi

Bit the bullet and paid my membership.

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hmfc_liam06
1 minute ago, Irufushi said:

Bit the bullet and paid my membership.

 

I'm sure the club will appreciate the £££.

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joondalupjambo
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, merrymac said:

Interesting angle😄

I have to admit defeat on that particular subject 😂

I guess if you are no about you will not care, somebody else's problem😃

 

Just checked and our club is still using the finance option but it is changing the agreement you sign.  It now will say if you sign up for finance and sign the contract then you agree to pay the full amount due even if you resign part way through the twelve month period.

I wonder if this means that if you die during the year that the debit passes onto your spouse or is handled as part of the wind up of your estate.

 

Golf membership has never been so interesting😃

Edited by joondalupjambo

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merrymac
22 minutes ago, joondalupjambo said:

I guess if you are no about you will not care, somebody else's problem😃

 

Just checked and our club is still using the finance option but it is changing the agreement you sign.  It now will say if you sign up for finance and sign the contract then you agree to pay the full amount due even if you resign part way through the twelve month period.

I wonder if this means that if you die during the year that the debit passes onto your spouse or is handled as part of the wind up of your estate.

 

Golf membership has never been so interesting😃

I guess most golf clubs would write off the debt in that case, I am pretty sure a golf club would  not want to be associated with pursuing debt against a deceased member.

Guess the courses in heaven are all free to join and play anyway 😂

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merrymac
1 hour ago, Irufushi said:

Bit the bullet and paid my membership.

Well done mate, I am sure every penny will count when we resume.

Kinda what being a member of a golf club is all about, you are theoretically part owner of the club anyway.

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Tommy Brown
7 hours ago, Old Blue Eyes said:

Fantastic gesture Tommy, spread the word and only the word, nothing else...:thumbsup:

.🤞

My payment plan was accepted

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Samuel Camazzola
Posted (edited)

I imagine if the green staff are getting to carry out the work they are looking to do at present, a lot of course conditions will quickly benefit from not having any 'traffic' on them. 

 

Soft and worn areas will get a chance to recover and greens will start to take shape without plug marks and being trodden on. 👍 🏌️ 

Edited by Samuel Camazzola

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Victorian

Each club will do things to suit the manpower situation they have.    I'm not sure if it's possible or not to furlough some workers,   while keeping some working.    As a business,   a club is just as temporarily closed for business as a shop but,   unlike a shop or restaurant,   it can still have workers performing work on a daily basis and some of it will be essential to the club (maintaining greens).   

 

If a club can apply for some staff to be paid through the worker retention scheme then great,   but I'm not sure.    Regardless,   clubs will surely only perform whatever course work is absolutely necessary in order to keep the course ready for use at fairly short notice.     Fairways and rough will need to be managed rather than prepared for golf.    Just an occasional cut.

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Old Blue Eyes
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Tommy Brown said:

My payment plan was accepted

 

 Hopefully other members will take your inspirational lead, well done.

Edited by Old Blue Eyes

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Old Blue Eyes

Shutting golf courses is ***king mental. 2 switched on mates arriving in separate cars, 10 minutes between other tee times with protruding cups, fresh air and exercise and as far away from the wife's throat as possible, what could possibly go wrong...?   :sneaky: Way OTT if you ask me. 

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hmfc_liam06
12 minutes ago, Old Blue Eyes said:

Shutting golf courses is ***king mental. 2 switched on mates arriving in separate cars, 10 minutes between other tee times with protruding cups, fresh air and exercise and as far away from the wife's throat as possible, what could possibly go wrong...?   :sneaky: Way OTT if you ask me. 

 

They are still going out and playing golf?? Shambles.

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Old Blue Eyes
3 minutes ago, hmfc_liam06 said:

 

They are still going out and playing golf?? Shambles.

 

Who are?

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Ray Gin
1 hour ago, Old Blue Eyes said:

Shutting golf courses is ***king mental. 2 switched on mates arriving in separate cars, 10 minutes between other tee times with protruding cups, fresh air and exercise and as far away from the wife's throat as possible, what could possibly go wrong...?   :sneaky: Way OTT if you ask me. 

 

Agreed. If greenskeepers are still getting out I don't see why they can't at least limit it to one person per tee off slot. An outright closure seems unnecessary. Way less of a risk playing golf on your own, hundreds of yards away from the nearest player, than going to the shops. 

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robbodog

BIGGA have clarified what essential work is allowed to be carried out on golf courses during the lockdown.

Fairways and tees can be cut once a week, greens can be cut 3 times a week, rough can be cut once a fortnight. It's basically a ticking over.

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hmfc_liam06
1 hour ago, robbodog said:

BIGGA have clarified what essential work is allowed to be carried out on golf courses during the lockdown.

Fairways and tees can be cut once a week, greens can be cut 3 times a week, rough can be cut once a fortnight. It's basically a ticking over.

 

With no foot trafiic though the courses really should be in very good condition upon our return.

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Samuel Camazzola
Posted (edited)
48 minutes ago, hmfc_liam06 said:

 

With no foot trafiic though the courses really should be in very good condition upon our return.

My thoughts too! 👍 

 

With green cutting three times a week, they could be rolled on the other days. 😉 

 

As long as there are no huge downpours to wash the sand away, replinished bunkers will be in good nick too. 

 

 

Edited by Samuel Camazzola

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hmfc_liam06

Some fun to pass the time gents. Myself and two cousins spent some time doing this yesterday.

Name your dream 18 holes, from holes that you have played in Scotland.

 

The caveat is that the holes must correspond to the actual hole number. For example, your opening hole must be an actual opening hole and so on.

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hmfc_liam06
Posted (edited)

Here was mine:

 

1 - Machrihanish - Par 4 - 414 yards

2 - Montrose - Par 4 - 386 yards

3 - Arbroath - Par 4 - 344 yards

4 - Carrick - Par 4 - 393 yards

5 - Gleneagles Kings - Par 3 - 177 yards

6 - Eyemouth - Par 3 - 166 yards

7 - Machrihanish - Par 4 - 425 yards

8 - Machrihanish Dunes - Par 5 - 620 yards

9 - Letham Grange - Par 5 - 517 yards

 

OUT - 36 - 3442 yards

 

10 - Roxburghe - Par 4 - 469 yards

11 - Dunaverty - Par 4 - 260 yards

12 - Boat of Garten - Par 4 - 348 yards

13 - Dalmahoy East - Par 4 - 440 yards

14 - Crail Balcomie - Par 3 - 147 yards

15 - Gleneagles Kings - Par 4 - 458 yards

16 - Ladybank - Par 4 - 353 yards

17 - Dundonald - Par 4 - 420 yards

18 - Leven - Par 4 - 448 yards

 

IN - 35 - 3343 yards

 

PAR - 71 - 6785 yards

Edited by hmfc_liam06

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