Official Golf geeks gibber thread

[Victorian]

Nothing yet.   It's distracting me from my Faroe Islands footbell bet.

 

[kila]

A wee bit on Prestonfield: 

 

Things turned dire at the start of the year after it became clear the club was facing a financial crisis. Apparent mis-management (neglect or otherwise) and legacy 'cheap' fees for a crowd of seniors were causing a blackhole. In February, along came the 'Inspired Villages' group who were going to buy the clubhouse, 1st and 18th holes to build a retirement village in order to save the club from financial ruin.

 

However from all that came a big reaction from members who began questioning what the hell had been going on the last number of years, including a heated AGM. New task groups were formed to help get things under control to avoid selling off chunks of the course. Fees were reviewed and that group of lucky seniors were going to gradually lose their big discounts (and these particular seniors are not poor, let's put it that way).

 

The bank, which the club had re-mortgaged the 'cottage' attached to the clubhouse years earlier, was refusing any more lending or overdraft increases. Then the lockdown and furlough came, and that really brought the club some time. The CV19 crisis meant the bank were now more willing to offer financial support.

 

The course has been kept in good nick during lockdown, and the club looks to come out of this in a much better shape than before. Silver lining and all.

 

[Samuel Camazzola]

Tuesday? 19th May? That date rings a bell... 🤔 

[dicksojo]

1 hour ago, kila said:

A wee bit on Prestonfield: 

 

Things turned dire at the start of the year after it became clear the club was facing a financial crisis. Apparent mis-management (neglect or otherwise) and legacy 'cheap' fees for a crowd of seniors were causing a blackhole. In February, along came the 'Inspired Villages' group who were going to buy the clubhouse, 1st and 18th holes to build a retirement village in order to save the club from financial ruin.

 

However from all that came a big reaction from members who began questioning what the hell had been going on the last number of years, including a heated AGM. New task groups were formed to help get things under control to avoid selling off chunks of the course. Fees were reviewed and that group of lucky seniors were going to gradually lose their big discounts (and these particular seniors are not poor, let's put it that way).

 

The bank, which the club had re-mortgaged the 'cottage' attached to the clubhouse years earlier, was refusing any more lending or overdraft increases. Then the lockdown and furlough came, and that really brought the club some time. The CV19 crisis meant the bank were now more willing to offer financial support.

 

The course has been kept in good nick during lockdown, and the club looks to come out of this in a much better shape than before. Silver lining and all.

 

That’s really interesting and fingers crossed the club can come out of this in the front foot. It is something I have been interested in for some time and I think the SGU should probably be a little more active in this area. Would it not help to have a well experienced accountant or “business manager” paid for by the SGU who could then go out to different clubs, run through the books and point out where the problems are? Be it debt, lack of membership subs or a new take on how to use the assets the clubs have?
 

I know at Craigielaw the clubhouse is essentially open to the public for drinks, coffee and food yet some of the more precarious clubs still maintain a members only clubhouse. Perhaps it’s time to open the doors a bit.

[kila]

4 minutes ago, dicksojo said:

That’s really interesting and fingers crossed the club can come out of this in the front foot. It is something I have been interested in for some time and I think the SGU should probably be a little more active in this area. Would it not help to have a well experienced accountant or “business manager” paid for by the SGU who could then go out to different clubs, run through the books and point out where the problems are? Be it debt, lack of membership subs or a new take on how to use the assets the clubs have?
 

I know at Craigielaw the clubhouse is essentially open to the public for drinks, coffee and food yet some of the more precarious clubs still maintain a members only clubhouse. Perhaps it’s time to open the doors a bit.

 

Agreed that SGU need to be more involved in safe guarding clubs for the future of golf.

 

I've heard some interesting stories about Craigmillar Park and their ongoing financial issues, with a chunk of that rumoured to be coming from dodgy dealings, such as a bunch of overpriced kit being procured etc. They survived due to a six figure donation by an anonymous person (guessing a wealthy ex member, maybe even a pro, who has emotional attachment to the course).

 

SGU need to have some initiative to ensure honest and transparent workings of clubs. A 'certificate' to show the club is being run properly, much like 'hygiene' certificates for restaurants. SGU representatives reviewing accounts and procedures regularly to ensure adherence. There might also be a need for a communal pot to help cash strapped clubs - this could be funded from a levy via the professional game.

 

[dicksojo]

I've played numerous times at Craigmillar and hopefully they continue for some time. 
 

I know some clubs will be going through the books now and asking for members to pitch in a little more or look at some sell and lease agreements but if ever there was a time to have a professional assisting clubs then now is the time and the SGU are the body to provide it.

 

I can only imagine the state of some clubs’ finances. 

[Samuel Camazzola]

2 hours ago, kila said:

A wee bit on Prestonfield: 

 

Things turned dire at the start of the year after it became clear the club was facing a financial crisis. Apparent mis-management (neglect or otherwise) and legacy 'cheap' fees for a crowd of seniors were causing a blackhole. In February, along came the 'Inspired Villages' group who were going to buy the clubhouse, 1st and 18th holes to build a retirement village in order to save the club from financial ruin.

 

However from all that came a big reaction from members who began questioning what the hell had been going on the last number of years, including a heated AGM. New task groups were formed to help get things under control to avoid selling off chunks of the course. Fees were reviewed and that group of lucky seniors were going to gradually lose their big discounts (and these particular seniors are not poor, let's put it that way).

 

The bank, which the club had re-mortgaged the 'cottage' attached to the clubhouse years earlier, was refusing any more lending or overdraft increases. Then the lockdown and furlough came, and that really brought the club some time. The CV19 crisis meant the bank were now more willing to offer financial support.

 

The course has been kept in good nick during lockdown, and the club looks to come out of this in a much better shape than before. Silver lining and all.

 

Did the financial side of things start to get messy when the clubhouse refurb was being done? 

 

I've always thought with the number of courses within a five/ten minute drive, Duddingston, Liberton, Craigmillar and Prestonfield should be working together to think of new ways to make their futures better. Inticing juniors with access to all four courses etc.. 

[hmfc_liam06]

11 minutes ago, dicksojo said:

I've played numerous times at Craigmillar and hopefully they continue for some time. 
 

I know some clubs will be going through the books now and asking for members to pitch in a little more or look at some sell and lease agreements but if ever there was a time to have a professional assisting clubs then now is the time and the SGU are the body to provide it.

 

I can only imagine the state of some clubs’ finances. 

 

We did an evaluation of our out-goings during lockdown. Managed to reduce some bills, also froze a couple for the time being which has helped.

 

You guys are right though, SG should be doing a lot more at club level.

[merrymac]

36 minutes ago, kila said:

 

Agreed that SGU need to be more involved in safe guarding clubs for the future of golf.

 

I've heard some interesting stories about Craigmillar Park and their ongoing financial issues, with a chunk of that rumoured to be coming from dodgy dealings, such as a bunch of overpriced kit being procured etc. They survived due to a six figure donation by an anonymous person (guessing a wealthy ex member, maybe even a pro, who has emotional attachment to the course).

 

SGU need to have some initiative to ensure honest and transparent workings of clubs. A 'certificate' to show the club is being run properly, much like 'hygiene' certificates for restaurants. SGU representatives reviewing accounts and procedures regularly to ensure adherence. There might also be a need for a communal pot to help cash strapped clubs - this could be funded from a levy via the professional game.

 

Good idea but not sure the SGU in current guise is the answer. They are about as bad as the SPFL.

They need a complete re-structure before i would involve them in any thing to do with my club.

Have a look at some of their more recent proposals, constantly looking to centralize everything, increase charges to clubs, and take money out of the clubs pockets.

I think the answer tends to lie within at most clubs, the expertise is there, its just a case of identifying and using it appropriately.

[kila]

12 minutes ago, Samuel Camazzola said:

Did the financial side of things start to get messy when the clubhouse refurb was being done? 

 

I've always thought with the number of courses within a five/ten minute drive, Duddingston, Liberton, Craigmillar and Prestonfield should be working together to think of new ways to make their futures better. Inticing juniors with access to all four courses etc.. 

 

I think that was probably the start. There is a £50 levy on the clubhouse for each membership renewal but sounds like the mortgage wasn't really getting paid off just the interest and it was a 'problem for the future'.

 

This is all before I Prestonfield however so just from bits I've heard. I was a long term Lothianburn member until it went bust, after which every club in Edinburgh was flashing their knickers to entice us. No course will ever come close to how I felt about Lothianburn though, even in a typical prevailing 40 mph wind!

 

[Samuel Camazzola]

20 minutes ago, kila said:

 

I think that was probably the start. There is a £50 levy on the clubhouse for each membership renewal but sounds like the mortgage wasn't really getting paid off just the interest and it was a 'problem for the future'.

 

This is all before I Prestonfield however so just from bits I've heard. I was a long term Lothianburn member until it went bust, after which every club in Edinburgh was flashing their knickers to entice us. No course will ever come close to how I felt about Lothianburn though, even in a typical prevailing 40 mph wind!

 

I was at Lothianburn for the last couple of years of its run. Cracking course with greens as good as any I've played. Kurt was a great pro and Debbie was superb with the catering. Just a pity what happened. 

[Samuel Camazzola]

Golf's on! Seminole looks superb. 

[kila]

1 hour ago, Samuel Camazzola said:

I was at Lothianburn for the last couple of years of its run. Cracking course with greens as good as any I've played. Kurt was a great pro and Debbie was superb with the catering. Just a pity what happened. 

 

Had a lot of time for Kurt, be it lessons or money to him for gear. As he'd say, 'those in the know support their pro'.

 

I see he's still at King's Acre. Bit far for me to get to otherwise I'd check in now and again for a lesson. Downside to lessons at Lothianburn was the practise hole wasn't that big, I remember once sticking half his balls into the gorse by the 18th!

 

Just been looking through some snaps I took of the club's final year:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[dicksojo]

1 hour ago, Samuel Camazzola said:

Golf's on! Seminole looks superb. 

Great seeing the bad shots as well as the good. 

[William H. Bonney]

Great photos kila. I also was a member of lothianburn right up TIL the end. 
I followed kurt to kingsacre. 
 

[kila]

 

 

[Samuel Camazzola]

56 minutes ago, kila said:

 

Had a lot of time for Kurt, be it lessons or money to him for gear. As he'd say, 'those in the know support their pro'.

 

I see he's still at King's Acre. Bit far for me to get to otherwise I'd check in now and again for a lesson. Downside to lessons at Lothianburn was the practise hole wasn't that big, I remember once sticking half his balls into the gorse by the 18th!

 

Just been looking through some snaps I took of the club's final year:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The T Wood holes were superb. 13 was one I didn't quite master. Didn't know where was the best lay-up area was and firing for the green could become a lottery. 

 

I once went driver, 9 iron on to 14 but found hybrid, wedge, wedge to be the smart consistent play. 

 

Great pictures! 

 

What happened with the club house? Sold for housing or just lying empty? 

[kila]

6 minutes ago, Samuel Camazzola said:

The T Wood holes were superb. 13 was one I didn't quite master. Didn't know where was the best lay-up area was and firing for the green could become a lottery. 

 

I once went driver, 9 iron on to 14 but found hybrid, wedge, wedge to be the smart consistent play. 

 

Great pictures! 

 

What happened with the club house? Sold for housing or just lying empty? 

 

13th off the back medal tee was a great hole. Wide fairway but left and you'll never find it, right and it's out of bounds. Just out of bounds beyond the green too. 14th got trickier when they made the 9th fairway out of bounds, and with such an elevated tee a slightly wayward drive would just keep carrying! Off the medal tee I'd punt a low iron and lay up. The 18th off the low medal tee was an exciting finale, the pressure of hitting over a bit gorse to a narrow fairway was too much for some and they'd go down the 17th instead (either deliberately or with a massive slice!). Still faced with a daunting semi blind second from that route albeit just a wedge.

 

One of the Swanston farm brothers bought the club house (that was the only thing we owned, they owned all the land). He turned it into offices for rent, think there's a few using the space.

 

Swanston reshuffled some of their holes and Lothianburn's 3rd and 4th are part of Swanston now. Rest of the course is overgrown horse land now. Quite sad really, the Swanson brothers could've absorbed the club and had two courses under their belt if they weren't at war with each other and other nonsense/vanity projects. At least there is no quad biking down the 14th hole like one of them originally wanted to do.

 

[Samuel Camazzola]

11 minutes ago, kila said:

 

13th off the back medal tee was a great hole. Wide fairway but left and you'll never find it, right and it's out of bounds. Just out of bounds beyond the green too. 14th got trickier when they made the 9th fairway out of bounds, and with such an elevated tee a slightly wayward drive would just keep carrying! Off the medal tee I'd punt a low iron and lay up. The 18th off the low medal tee was an exciting finale, the pressure of hitting over a bit gorse to a narrow fairway was too much for some and they'd go down the 17th instead (either deliberately or with a massive slice!). Still faced with a daunting semi blind second from that route albeit just a wedge.

 

One of the Swanston farm brothers bought the club house (that was the only thing we owned, they owned all the land). He turned it into offices for rent, think there's a few using the space.

 

Swanston reshuffled some of their holes and Lothianburn's 3rd and 4th are part of Swanston now. Rest of the course is overgrown horse land now. Quite sad really, the Swanson brothers could've absorbed the club and had two courses under their belt if they weren't at war with each other and other nonsense/vanity projects. At least there is no quad biking down the 14th hole like one of them originally wanted to do.

 

I remember the low tee on 18 very well. Daunting when on a score! 

 

I had seen Swanston acquired the two holes. Their course will be a dolly mixture of varying conditions with the original course, six new holes and these two. 

[Victorian]

No golf until sometime after May 28.

[Ray Gin]

Sounds like we'll be waiting until the 28th.

[Victorian]

[OBE]

18 day's after England, a whole 18 day's...18 ***king day's.

[Drumelzier]

We get expelled from the SPL and now no golf until probably 1st June, this has been some day, so far  

[Irufushi]

Not too long now lads, on the home straight. Stay strong.

[Samuel Camazzola]

Dumbarnie opening date moved to 29th.

 

 

[kila]

 

 

 

 

[hmfc_liam06]

I'm just happy we have a rough date.

 

I think it'll be June 1st.

[Phage]

Played Lothianburn once when I was 18. And instantly enquired about membership. Year 2000 it was but was told it was a 12 year waiting list. Then it went bust

 

I play my local Glencorse club now. Beautiful, tough with so incredible holes. Teases me everyday on the lush fairways walking my dog and not hitting golf balls.

[Phage]

Post lockdown we should start a JKB golf section

[Tommy Brown]

a snippet from h1b5 news

Hopefully, abuse by a soon to be "ex-member".

“We have been advised this morning of an incident which has just occurred at the course,” Merchants club manager Melanie Dobie said in an email to members.

“A member of our green staff, while carrying out his duties, was threatened by a golfer.

“This individual, who claimed to be a member, was practising on the putting green at the first tee and our green staff told him the course and all practice facilities were closed and he should refrain from playing. Our staff member was then verbally abused and physically threatened by a club. This behaviour is totally unacceptable and no one should have to experience this when carrying out their duties.”

The incident came a few hours after the police were called to nearby Mortonhall Golf Club following a report of people playing there.Mortonhall club manager Alan Mackay said: “I have been in touch with police on a regular basis about the amount of ‘traffic’ on the golf course at times, which has been ridiculous.

 

 

“The police were called again last night as a member who was out walking took a picture of people golfing.

[Victorian]

Wed,  Thur,  Frid weather looking cracking.

 

[OBE]

Never in a million did I ever think a wee Ayrshire bint could decide when I can play golf, she probably never did either. C'mon hen, I can just about smell the bogey's.

 

It'll be interesting to see who fairs better on our return, low, medium or high handicappers. All on here should keep a score of their first round back and post their results, the number of putts could dominate a card.

[ri Alban]

Looking forward to a wee game. I might get myself a membership for lochwinnoch, as this taxi malarchy has made me feel like I have one leg longer than the other, and that is a godsend on that place.

Edited May 20, 2020 by ri Alban

[OBE]

16 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

Looking forward to wee game. I might get myself a membership of lochwinnoch, as this taxi malarchy has made me feel like I have one leg longer than the other, and that is a godsend on that place.

 

I'd get yourself checked out, leg growth/shrinkage could be another symptom. You smell OK?

[Tommy Brown]

28 minutes ago, Old Blue Eyes said:

 

I'd get yourself checked out, leg growth/shrinkage could be another symptom. You smell OK?

 

maybe you've got symptoms if you cannae smell @ri Alban

I can smell him from here.

 

[OBE]

7 minutes ago, Tommy Brown said:

 

maybe you've got symptoms if you cannae smell @ri Alban

I can smell him from here.

 

 

Tell him to put the air-con on, if in his taxi...😁.

 

You keeping fit?

[Tommy Brown]

Just now, Old Blue Eyes said:

 

Tell him to put the air-con on, if in his taxi...😁.

 

You keeping fit?

 

Feeling good, thanks, treatment inishes a fortnight on Friday.

 

hopefully swing again by end of June

[OBE]

10 minutes ago, Tommy Brown said:

 

Feeling good, thanks, treatment inishes a fortnight on Friday.

 

hopefully swing again by end of June

 

Very good news...👍

[Irufushi]

Clocking on nearly 7 months since I last picked up a golf club 😂. My 1.8 handicap won’t be enough!!!

[hmfc_liam06]

10 minutes ago, Irufushi said:

Clocking on nearly 7 months since I last picked up a golf club 😂. My 1.8 handicap won’t be enough!!!

 

Nah, you're the type of see you next Tuesday that will just fall straight back into it

[hmfc_liam06]

My last round, was an 81 at Burntisland on the 22nd of March.

 

59 days ago.

[ri Alban]

[Irufushi]

22 minutes ago, hmfc_liam06 said:

 

Nah, you're the type of see you next Tuesday that will just fall straight back into it

Oh I wouldn’t be too sure 😂. Might have a wee chipping session in my flat tonight .

[Victorian]

19 minutes ago, hmfc_liam06 said:

My last round, was an 81 at Burntisland on the 22nd of March.

 

59 days ago.

 

Liam,  as a committee member,   has your club had clear guidance from the government regarding whether or not they are allowed to allow access for collection of clubs before we all get the go-ahead to resume golf?    Our lot seems to be sticking rigidly to no access before there's a start date for golf,   as well as access ending when golf resumes.

[hmfc_liam06]

13 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

Liam,  as a committee member,   has your club had clear guidance from the government regarding whether or not they are allowed to allow access for collection of clubs before we all get the go-ahead to resume golf?    Our lot seems to be sticking rigidly to no access before there's a start date for golf,   as well as access ending when golf resumes.

 

We haven't heard a peep from the government, Scottish Golf, R&A etc. Sorry.

[Victorian]

Just now, hmfc_liam06 said:

 

We haven't heard a peep from the government, Scottish Golf, R&A etc. Sorry.

 

Cheers.   

[hmfc_liam06]

1 minute ago, Victorian said:

 

Cheers.   

 

Which is actually pretty shameful.

 

Scottish Golf have been appaling during this entire episode.

[Victorian]

Just now, hmfc_liam06 said:

 

Which is actually pretty shameful.

 

Scottish Golf have been appaling during this entire episode.

 

They've been criticised by a lot of people.    But I think access to the premises would be a yes/no from the government.

 

Personally I don't see why access would be illegal.   The place is closed for business and is a private property.    I think the club are just being a bit daft tbh.

[merrymac]

3 hours ago, hmfc_liam06 said:

 

Which is actually pretty shameful.

 

Scottish Golf have been and are appalling 

FTFY