Section Q Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 6 hours ago, Bob Loblaw said: His job isn't just signing players, however even if it was, recruitment has been good. Would be a big loss. If EPL clubs are looking at him he must be doing OK. Although it's for a recruitment position not DoF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Monument Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 Joe savage without doubt has done a reasonable job in what is a very competitive market but at the same time very few players have moved on for a profit.Hopefully he stays but everyone is replaceable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fila Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 I am not a fan , and would definitely like to see him move on . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tott Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 3 minutes ago, fila said: I am not a fan , and would definitely like to see him move on . This ,the boy just doesn't get us. No love lost here .toodle pip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeartsandonlyHearts Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 6 hours ago, vladisacoward said: Based on his strike rate so far and the fact that there is no shortage of people out there who could come in and do his job just as well if not better and relatively easily too I’d be willing to bet. If there’s other people out as talented or better, then why wouldn’t the teams after our guy not go after them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watt-Zeefuik Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 5 hours ago, Chuck Berry said: Over the years this place has got worse, much worse. You can speculate the reasons why, but some of the posts today are an embarrassing reaction to a bad day at the office. We are in a good place, today's result doesn't change that. I dunno mate. The year we were in admin and playing a bunch of 19 year olds there were folk on here raging about results being "not good enough" and "club needs to do better," completely without awareness that we had the smallest wage bill in the league and absolutely no ability to recruit players, and that the club was hanging on by a thread. If ever there was a time to just expect the worst and get behind the (extremely young) players, that was it, but some folk still couldn't help themselves. Some of the names have changed since them but the behavior is still the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeartsandonlyHearts Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 6 hours ago, Benny Klack said: Yes, a foreigner with absolutely no background or understanding in the Scottish game - brilliant idea 👀 It’s actually not that bad an idea. In theory. I get so mad days before we play Newco or Celtic when our manager (insert name) starts harping on about how tough it’ll be. How it’s a tough place to go. How good their players are. Not since MadVlad have we had anyone associated with us who’s not scared to say **** ‘em, they’re only human. Maybe it is time to bum ourselves up for a change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EH11 2NL Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 10 hours ago, vladisacoward said: He’s not overseen it. And it’s not really a massive success currently either in my view. He's been in charge of the footballing department, you can't just take senior people out and not expect it to carry on as is or even improve. And with all due respect it doesn't matter a jot what your view on it is, the facts are 3rd, 4th and 3rd will be a great period of league performance for us, one that we have hardly ever achieved ot bettered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threedoorsdown Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 I’d prefer Joe stayed. However if decides the time is right then I think it’s not a terrible time for us to be looking for a replacement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris5115 Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 6 hours ago, Stendelnator said: 100% working his ticket. Should Joe go I wonder if he will take his pal McAvoy with him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allystrachan Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 So it gets to summer… we lose Savage, Shankland & Cochrane. I assume we have still to put a run in Europe & finish third whilst challenging the OF? Could end up another rebuild team considering we would need right backs, left backs, strikers, replace all the Australians etc etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamboozy Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 Well the Daily Ranger seems to be winning in its objective here. Mission accomplished, Hearts fans throwing insults at one another and bickering over a nonsense piece. Honestly, I wish we had a fiver for every time that shite paper , quietly opens the Hearts door, rolls a crap grenade in, then stands back and chuckles at the mischief. It will be the broken Hearts crest next. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Brown Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 Late to thread, can't be arsed reading previous. DR article is pretty speculative. But direct quotes from Joe are worth reading. He said: "I’m not on social media but I hear it, I see it, I know it’s there. I know there is a pressure on me. One of the fans made sure to tell me there is a thread on (Jambos) Kickback about me, whether I should stay or I should go. "I’m thinking that is really interesting because these are the pressures of the job people don’t tell you. Everyone says to you ‘don’t read it’. But it is not happening to you when they say don’t read it or don’t listen to it. You can’t help it, it is there. I’m quite comfortable showing this vulnerability. I think people need to hear this job is not all rosy, it’s not me going home, sitting with my feet up and lighting a cigar saying ‘what a day I’ve had today’. Decisions you need to make everyday are hard. You’ve got things with budgets, things with salary increases, bonuses, people wanting this, agents wanting to move their players. You are saying not for that money and that agent is falling out with you. You’ve to deal with so much every single day and at times you feel you are a glorified head of recruitment because you get judged on signing players but that’s not the role. That’s all I ever get when I’m out.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamboozy Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 4 minutes ago, Tommy Brown said: Late to thread, can't be arsed reading previous. DR article is pretty speculative. But direct quotes from Joe are worth reading. He said: "I’m not on social media but I hear it, I see it, I know it’s there. I know there is a pressure on me. One of the fans made sure to tell me there is a thread on (Jambos) Kickback about me, whether I should stay or I should go. "I’m thinking that is really interesting because these are the pressures of the job people don’t tell you. Everyone says to you ‘don’t read it’. But it is not happening to you when they say don’t read it or don’t listen to it. You can’t help it, it is there. I’m quite comfortable showing this vulnerability. I think people need to hear this job is not all rosy, it’s not me going home, sitting with my feet up and lighting a cigar saying ‘what a day I’ve had today’. Decisions you need to make everyday are hard. You’ve got things with budgets, things with salary increases, bonuses, people wanting this, agents wanting to move their players. You are saying not for that money and that agent is falling out with you. You’ve to deal with so much every single day and at times you feel you are a glorified head of recruitment because you get judged on signing players but that’s not the role. That’s all I ever get when I’m out.” I’m pretty sure the DR have used old quotes there Tommy, I will stand corrected if proven wrong.👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustyRightPeg Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 Inevitable really. Would be a huge loss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzzbomb1958 Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 8 hours ago, Lone Striker said: This is what some folk on here seem to have forgotten. Where to begin with nonsense like this ...🙄 Some of these pub league teams have beaten us this season. Our "sh1t defence" was doing fine until today. Rowles has been fine before today. Savage isn't a scout. You probably know all that though. Some people must watch games with their eyes closed or haven’t watched at all , if you think some of these players deserve to wear a Hearts jersey you have very low standards, we have spent loads on recruitment and the same problems we had under Robbie which are still glaringly obvious have not been sorted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboAl Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 13 hours ago, Pasquale for King said: There have been almost as many duds as successes though, ffs 5 of your list played here so they cant count as players who can play here, Kingsley was before his time. Kasteener, Gnanduillet, Kio, and guys like Fraser/Tagawa/Grant/Atkinson/Rowles haven’t really been that convincing to different degrees. I wouldn’t say he has proven that he can bring guys suited to our specific brand of “football”. Cant argue hes better than what went before. I agree with the 1st paragraph. As regards your final sentence I think it ought to be better as we are gradually increasing our wealth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Striker Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 2 hours ago, buzzbomb1958 said: Some people must watch games with their eyes closed or haven’t watched at all , if you think some of these players deserve to wear a Hearts jersey you have very low standards, we have spent loads on recruitment and the same problems we had under Robbie which are still glaringly obvious have not been sorted Did you hold these views while we opened up a 14 point gap on 4th ? They must have been imposters during that run too, surely ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Jambo Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 2 hours ago, buzzbomb1958 said: Some people must watch games with their eyes closed or haven’t watched at all , if you think some of these players deserve to wear a Hearts jersey you have very low standards, we have spent loads on recruitment and the same problems we had under Robbie which are still glaringly obvious have not been sorted We are 3 points worse off than we were at the same stage in the 05/06 season. 5 points worse off than the same stage in the 97/98 season. In both those seasons we were genuine title challengers. The fact we are so close to those levels and yet you don't think some of our players deserve to wear the jersey is frankly ludicrous and says more about your delusional standards than anyone else's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Natural Order Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 Meh. If he stays, fine. If he goes, fine. Easily replaced. Can't say I'll loose any sleep either way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbojambo Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 He's not infallible which seems to be unacceptable to many of our fans who feel they or indeed anyone could do better. Within our budget he has done well and will be hard to replace with better. As they say "you don't know what you have until it's gone". Time to get off his back and show a bit of faith in his ability to do his job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sooks Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 Sega and EA have a lot to answer for Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim_Duncan Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 Guy has his head screwed on the right way. He’s not perfect, but who is? I’m sure he’ll make a mature and honest decision should opportunities present themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzzbomb1958 Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 15 minutes ago, Lone Striker said: Did you hold these views while we opened up a 14 point gap on 4th ? They must have been imposters during that run too, surely ? You don’t get it we are the best of the rest of the crap at the moment most of that is because of Shanklands goals, our midfield is mediocre to say the least our defence when the Aussie players were away played the best they had all season but Naismith puts them back into the team and they made pure arses of themselves yesterday, Clark made a few good saves and kept the score down could have been 7 or 8 . That alone doesn’t make him a good keeper, as I said we have had these problems when Robbie was in charge and they still have not been addressed, some of these players don’t know how lucky the are to play for Hearts and many of them shouldn’t Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruyff Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 (edited) I'd be disappointed if we lose Savage. I think he's building something good here and should see it out. Win some silverware. He's still young, he will get better gigs in the future. Edited February 25 by Cruyff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzzbomb1958 Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 21 minutes ago, Saint Jambo said: We are 3 points worse off than we were at the same stage in the 05/06 season. 5 points worse off than the same stage in the 97/98 season. In both those seasons we were genuine title challengers. The fact we are so close to those levels and yet you don't think some of our players deserve to wear the jersey is frankly ludicrous and says more about your delusional standards than anyone else's. Are you for real these dates you talk about we had players who played for the jersey had bottle and we occasionally got a result against the uglies even beating them in cup finals you are talking about different times no VAR different rules on offside and tackling it cannot be compared to nowadays Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pettigrewsstylist Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 3 hours ago, Tommy Brown said: Late to thread, can't be arsed reading previous. DR article is pretty speculative. But direct quotes from Joe are worth reading. He said: "I’m not on social media but I hear it, I see it, I know it’s there. I know there is a pressure on me. One of the fans made sure to tell me there is a thread on (Jambos) Kickback about me, whether I should stay or I should go. "I’m thinking that is really interesting because these are the pressures of the job people don’t tell you. Everyone says to you ‘don’t read it’. But it is not happening to you when they say don’t read it or don’t listen to it. You can’t help it, it is there. I’m quite comfortable showing this vulnerability. I think people need to hear this job is not all rosy, it’s not me going home, sitting with my feet up and lighting a cigar saying ‘what a day I’ve had today’. Decisions you need to make everyday are hard. You’ve got things with budgets, things with salary increases, bonuses, people wanting this, agents wanting to move their players. You are saying not for that money and that agent is falling out with you. You’ve to deal with so much every single day and at times you feel you are a glorified head of recruitment because you get judged on signing players but that’s not the role. That’s all I ever get when I’m out.” Poor wee lamb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramrod Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 3 hours ago, Tommy Brown said: Late to thread, can't be arsed reading previous. DR article is pretty speculative. But direct quotes from Joe are worth reading. He said: "I’m not on social media but I hear it, I see it, I know it’s there. I know there is a pressure on me. One of the fans made sure to tell me there is a thread on (Jambos) Kickback about me, whether I should stay or I should go. "I’m thinking that is really interesting because these are the pressures of the job people don’t tell you. Everyone says to you ‘don’t read it’. But it is not happening to you when they say don’t read it or don’t listen to it. You can’t help it, it is there. I’m quite comfortable showing this vulnerability. I think people need to hear this job is not all rosy, it’s not me going home, sitting with my feet up and lighting a cigar saying ‘what a day I’ve had today’. Decisions you need to make everyday are hard. You’ve got things with budgets, things with salary increases, bonuses, people wanting this, agents wanting to move their players. You are saying not for that money and that agent is falling out with you. You’ve to deal with so much every single day and at times you feel you are a glorified head of recruitment because you get judged on signing players but that’s not the role. That’s all I ever get when I’m out.” To me that sounds like he is pretty pissed off with how some fans view him, which is a shame because its only really the view of a small percentage of dafties. Surely he wouldn't be factoring that in his decision to go or stay. I would like to hear Naismiths honest option on whether he is desperate or not for Joe to stay. He's the guy that really matters in all this after all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Jambo Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 15 minutes ago, buzzbomb1958 said: Are you for real these dates you talk about we had players who played for the jersey had bottle and we occasionally got a result against the uglies even beating them in cup finals you are talking about different times no VAR different rules on offside and tackling it cannot be compared to nowadays Are you for real that you thought we went 12 games unbeaten, with 11 wins including a 2-0 win at Celtic (which last time I checked was a result against one of the uglies) without bottle. That was a run with a number of comebacks and late winners. Not sure what the hell the intro of VAR has to do with anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bongo 1874 Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 16 hours ago, Sow Easy said: Bongo is waiting for the call 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go for it 1308 Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 28 minutes ago, buzzbomb1958 said: You don’t get it we are the best of the rest of the crap at the moment most of that is because of Shanklands goals, our midfield is mediocre to say the least our defence when the Aussie players were away played the best they had all season but Naismith puts them back into the team and they made pure arses of themselves yesterday, Clark made a few good saves and kept the score down could have been 7 or 8 . That alone doesn’t make him a good keeper, as I said we have had these problems when Robbie was in charge and they still have not been addressed, some of these players don’t know how lucky the are to play for Hearts and many of them shouldn’t Brilliant post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Striker Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 19 minutes ago, buzzbomb1958 said: You don’t get it we are the best of the rest of the crap at the moment most of that is because of Shanklands goals, our midfield is mediocre to say the least our defence when the Aussie players were away played the best they had all season but Naismith puts them back into the team and they made pure arses of themselves yesterday, Clark made a few good saves and kept the score down could have been 7 or 8 . That alone doesn’t make him a good keeper, as I said we have had these problems when Robbie was in charge and they still have not been addressed, some of these players don’t know how lucky the are to play for Hearts and many of them shouldn’t If we were sitting top of the league right now having just lost 5-0 to Livi, would you be equally as angry and dismissive of everything ? "Lost to a pub team - disgraceful ... Aussies oot" etc. But we're still top of the league...... "It just shows how sh1t Celtic & Rangers must be., then" etc Everyone's sh1t apart from Shanks, then ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzzbomb1958 Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 28 minutes ago, Saint Jambo said: Are you for real that you thought we went 12 games unbeaten, with 11 wins including a 2-0 win at Celtic (which last time I checked was a result against one of the uglies) without bottle. That was a run with a number of comebacks and late winners. Not sure what the hell the intro of VAR has to do with anything. Get off yer high horse I was just stating the dates he was talking about football was totally different to nowadays different rules, accidental hand ball is now allowed offside rules have changed so have many other rules different times different types of players Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzzbomb1958 Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 23 minutes ago, Lone Striker said: If we were sitting top of the league right now having just lost 5-0 to Livi, would you be equally as angry and dismissive of everything ? "Lost to a pub team - disgraceful ... Aussies oot" etc. But we're still top of the league...... "It just shows how sh1t Celtic & Rangers must be., then" etc Everyone's sh1t apart from Shanks, then ? We aren’t that’s the difference if you like what you see fair play , that shit that was served up yesterday was nothing short of cowardice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Findlay Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 1 hour ago, The Natural Order said: Meh. If he stays, fine. If he goes, fine. Easily replaced. Can't say I'll loose any sleep either way. Ditto. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deviskan Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 1 hour ago, Sooks said: Sega and EA have a lot to answer for Nearly as bad as online forum members, who appear to believe their viewpoint holds more credibility than others…and post from a position of condescending smugness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sooks Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 6 minutes ago, Deviskan said: Nearly as bad as online forum members, who appear to believe their viewpoint holds more credibility than others…and post from a position of condescending smugness. If anyone holds an opinion like that , like they could do a better job , then they deserve to be condescended to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deviskan Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 Just now, Sooks said: If anyone holds an opinion like that , like they could do a better job , then they deserve to be condescended to Yeah, everyone that has a different opinion to you deserves to be called a moron and an idiot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sooks Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 1 minute ago, Deviskan said: Yeah, everyone that has a different opinion to you deserves to be called a moron and an idiot. You have clubs trying to poach our Sporting Director because he is doing such a good job , and the FM and FIFA enthusiasts are acting like they could do a better job sitting in their underpants eating monster munch . Yes anyone who thinks that is a moron . If you think that then that applies to you . Anyone who thinks that is an idiot . It really is that simple . I am merely stating facts , it is not an opinion where I am calling people this , they just are , and I am pointing it out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deviskan Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Sooks said: You have clubs trying to poach our Sporting Director because he is doing such a good job , and the FM and FIFA enthusiasts are acting like they could do a better job sitting in their underpants eating monster munch . Yes anyone who thinks that is a moron . If you think that then that applies to you . Anyone who thinks that is an idiot . It really is that simple . I am merely stating facts , it is not an opinion where I am calling people this , they just are , and I am pointing it out How do you know it’s a ‘fact’…because you say it is? Sounds very much like an opinion to me…not a fact. I’ve not stated an opinion, I just think you’re a bit of a condescending, smug little bawbag for denigrating anyone and everyone that thinks differently to yourself…that’s an opinion by the way and not a fact. However, my opinion on the subject would be meh…if he goes he goes, I wouldn’t engage panic mode at the thought of Joe Savage leaving. Also, just to point out the ‘fact’ that you appear to believe a Daily Record article about unnamed Premier League clubs after Joe Savage…which could easily be a load of pish, planted in the media by Joe’s agent to try and get him a better deal at Hearts. You don’t know if it’s real, I don’t either…so to then abuse fellow supporters because they hold a different view to yourself, stating they must be intellectually challenged for holding that view…well, that says everything about yourself doesn’t it? Edited February 25 by Deviskan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rampant Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 3 hours ago, buzzbomb1958 said: Some people must watch games with their eyes closed or haven’t watched at all , if you think some of these players deserve to wear a Hearts jersey you have very low standards, we have spent loads on recruitment and the same problems we had under Robbie which are still glaringly obvious have not been sorted I'm curious what standards you have and what they're based on? How do you define the type player that is fit to wear the Hearts Jersey? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sooks Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 1 minute ago, Deviskan said: How do you know it’s a ‘fact’…because you say it is? Sounds very much like an opinion to me…not a fact. I’ve not stated an opinion, I just think you’re a bit of a condescending, smug little bawbag for denigrating anyone and everyone that thinks differently to yourself…that’s an opinion by the way and not a fact. However, my opinion on the subject would be meh…if he goes he goes, I wouldn’t engage panic mode at the thought of Joe Savage leaving. No , I am just of a reasonable enough level of intelligence to work out this very simple fact Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzzbomb1958 Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 Just now, Rampant said: I'm curious what standards you have and what they're based on? How do you define the type player that is fit to wear the Hearts Jersey? A player is defined by his attitude on the park as well as skill set and leading by example as I said already that sowing yesterday was nothing short of cowardice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deviskan Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 1 minute ago, Sooks said: No , I am just of a reasonable enough level of intelligence to work out this very simple fact Yet, not intelligent enough to surmise that the Daily Record article isn’t a fact…and could indeed be a load of pish? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rampant Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 1 minute ago, buzzbomb1958 said: A player is defined by his attitude on the park as well as skill set and leading by example as I said already that sowing yesterday was nothing short of cowardice I understand that, but what is your standard for a Hearts player? What separates out a player with an attitude and skill set that you deem good enough for Hearts, relative to the current squad we have? You clearly have a standard for Hearts, and fair enough if you think yesterday fell below that, but what is that standard, and how did you reach it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sooks Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 Just now, Deviskan said: Yet, not intelligent enough to surmise that the Daily Record article isn’t a fact…and could indeed be a load of pish? I am no world level genius mate , but I am able to understand how quotes work and how to distinguish that from journalistic conjecture Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deviskan Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 Just now, Sooks said: I am no world level genius mate , but I am able to understand how quotes work and how to distinguish that from journalistic conjecture Where is the quote saying Premier League clubs are after Savage? What clubs have been named? You've based your whole view on this around the ‘fact’ that Premier League clubs are after Savage, which therefore must equate to the ‘fact’ he’s doing an AMAZING job…hence anyone that thinks he isn’t must be a moron. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzzbomb1958 Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 1 minute ago, Rampant said: I understand that, but what is your standard for a Hearts player? What separates out a player with an attitude and skill set that you deem good enough for Hearts, relative to the current squad we have? You clearly have a standard for Hearts, and fair enough if you think yesterday fell below that, but what is that standard, and how did you reach it? The Captain has set the standard, he’s brave , not afraid to take the hard knocks , pulls us out the keek when needed and leads by example can you name one player apart from Forrest who has upped his game and tried to follow that , I doubt it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bongo 1874 Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 Joe was not to blame for yesterday's result,that is on Naismith and management, we are 2-3 players short. We go again high tempo attacking Football. Bin the back three. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBJambo Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 We will be worse off if he leaves that’s for sure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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