soonbe110 Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 5 minutes ago, Hectormasson said: if it was a bit less than 0-5 people might not have been so ott about it, and maybe that its the 3rd time in under two seasons, its finished this way ? thats the bit lots are not taking too kindly too, just getting the dry boaby regular " can see why many folks are pissed off with it, especially the people who pay up the dosh to go and watch it, gardly surprising there are those angry.. Yep, the almost complete capitulation first half is what irked most of those there. I’d guess close to 50% left by ht. By the fifth it was close to an empty section. Only folk on the streets outside when we left were Hearts supporters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sooks Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 (edited) Anyway , I see the dullards are now trying to attribute various signings to different people to suit their arguments and agendas against managers and sporting directors ………… I will leave that shit right there …………… On an unrelated tangent , do you think you could do the job of head coach or Sporting Director at Hearts @Pasquale for King ? You always come off as seeming like you think you could do a job like that Edited February 26 by Sooks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soonbe110 Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 3 minutes ago, Sooks said: I am pissed off with it too . A few of my mates were slagging me for being so huffy about it . Watching Scotland retain the Calcutta Cup was a reasonable distraction , but I am still ****ing annoyed at how poorly we dealt with their press at Ibrox I was at Ibrox and I saw more than half the Calcutta Cup match at home. Didn’t get any satisfaction from it tbh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greedy Jambo Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 I wouldn't be bothered if Savage left, a couple of good signings but far more crap ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sooks Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 4 minutes ago, soonbe110 said: I was at Ibrox and I saw more than half the Calcutta Cup match at home. Didn’t get any satisfaction from it tbh. Good for you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sooks Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 2 minutes ago, Greedy Jambo said: I wouldn't be bothered if Savage left, a couple of good signings but far more crap ones. I quoted your thread yesterday about the Aussies ……….. the replies were lampooning you because it was you who started the threads . People do not think very highly of your opinions I had not really noticed too much , but I am starting to see what they mean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky jamboa Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 We've not heard from Savage for a bit so wouldn't surprise me if somethings going on. Naismith is the man to take us forward for me and if the club see it that way too, I'm sure he will have a say in whether he's happy with Savage, or if we could be doing with bringing someone better in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sooks Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 11 minutes ago, Rocky jamboa said: We've not heard from Savage for a bit so wouldn't surprise me if somethings going on. Naismith is the man to take us forward for me and if the club see it that way too, I'm sure he will have a say in whether he's happy with Savage, or if we could be doing with bringing someone better in. Why does it have to be one versus the other ? From where I am watching it seems like they are both doing different jobs and doing them very well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OTT Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 1 hour ago, soonbe110 said: That’s just the point - I think with a lot of fans the jury is still out. Kent, Cochrane, Simms, Beni (before injury) were all excellent signings. His other signings have all been average at best and though some are promising they still have a way to go. Kio, Oda, Tagawa, Grant, Atkinson, Rowles, Hof, Vargas, Devlin, Ginelly first two seasons, all decent but probably not any better than what we could have signed in the UK. Haven’t included Shankland and Clark because they were Neilson signings. Certainly haven’t sold any of them at a decent profit so far so the recruitment model isn’t yet operating efficiently. Maybe it will come good this coming summer but as I said, jury is still out. I think Savage has repeatedly tried to distance himself from the recruitment, but obviously it still ends up blowing back on him - ultimate responsibility as Sporting Director. Anyway, there isn't a club out there with a 100% strike rate. Would say that we should really be looking at our 3rd 3rd place finish in a row which would be one of the most successful periods in our recent history in terms of league performance. That reflects well on Savage (Robbie ****ed 3rd last season), he did a lot of the recruitment in terms of senior personel within the football department - Lancefield, McAvoy, Webster now too and I believe Naismith based on the likelihood his view carried weight? About the only thing missing from his tenure is a trophy. I share frustration on a lot of the development job type signings, but thats the area of the market we're stuck with. If Rowles or Vargas were the full ticket, they'd not be here. Its just about making sure that players we expect to play every week are as reliable as possible. Kent has been such a shrewd signing. I can think of maybe 2 bad games he's had. Players like that give the younger players that are here to develop and hopefully be sold on the platform to do exactly that. Rowles has came on leaps and bounds with Kent next to him. Tait and Denholm have both spoken about how helpful Beni & Devlin have been. I'm sure Forrest has been really helpful for Oda and Kingsley has absolutely been useful for Cochranes development too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky jamboa Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 53 minutes ago, Sooks said: Why does it have to be one versus the other ? From where I am watching it seems like they are both doing different jobs and doing them very well I'm not saying it is. I've said that if the club see Naismith as a long term option, which hopefully they do, then Naismith will have a say in whether he's happy working with Savage or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Elliott Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 2 hours ago, Sooks said: I quoted your thread yesterday about the Aussies ……….. the replies were lampooning you because it was you who started the threads . People do not think very highly of your opinions I had not really noticed too much , but I am starting to see what they mean He’s certainly out the traps quickly in the Worst Poster of 2024 stakes. Competition is stiff though so can understand him not letting up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 3 hours ago, Sooks said: Anyway , I see the dullards are now trying to attribute various signings to different people to suit their arguments and agendas against managers and sporting directors ………… I will leave that shit right there …………… On an unrelated tangent , do you think you could do the job of head coach or Sporting Director at Hearts @Pasquale for King ? You always come off as seeming like you think you could do a job like that No I don’t have the qualifications or experience, I have studied football all my life since I was a talented but wayward youngster, apologies for having an opinion that you don’t like. I don’t think being the SD is rocket science for anyone with an understanding of the game. The manager asks for a 6 foot midfielder who can tackle, they then use websites to find a selection of them, then watch videos and whittle down the options, show the manager who says yeah these 4 in order of preference and Savage negotiates. Thats simplifying it obviously but its not some mystery, Savage and RN have explained the process many times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 3 hours ago, Rocky jamboa said: We've not heard from Savage for a bit so wouldn't surprise me if somethings going on. Naismith is the man to take us forward for me and if the club see it that way too, I'm sure he will have a say in whether he's happy with Savage, or if we could be doing with bringing someone better in. I think they worked together at Norwich and Savage helped him get the job, can’t see them falling out unless there’s players coming in that the manager doesn’t want, which seems unlikely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 4 hours ago, soonbe110 said: Are you sure? Savage signed Ginelly for PNE in Jan 2019, 18 months before he followed Savage to Hearts. Yes he played in the championship for us under RN, I have mentioned your memory before, he scored in the December 2020 Scottish cup final weeks before Savage started. PNE is definitely in the UK also, a poor signing for them by Savage really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Elliott Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 6 hours ago, Pasquale for King said: No I don’t have the qualifications or experience, I have studied football all my life since I was a talented but wayward youngster, apologies for having an opinion that you don’t like. I don’t think being the SD is rocket science for anyone with an understanding of the game. The manager asks for a 6 foot midfielder who can tackle, they then use websites to find a selection of them, then watch videos and whittle down the options, show the manager who says yeah these 4 in order of preference and Savage negotiates. Thats simplifying it obviously but its not some mystery, Savage and RN have explained the process many times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Walker Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 9 hours ago, Pasquale for King said: The manager asks for a 6 foot midfielder who can tackle, they then use websites to find a selection of them, then watch videos and whittle down the options, show the manager who says yeah these 4 in order of preference and Savage negotiates. Thats simplifying it obviously exactly ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigO Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 13 hours ago, Greedy Jambo said: I wouldn't be bothered if Savage left, a couple of good signings but far more crap ones. Well that's just not true, now though is it. Or well it's all relative, anyway. Kye Rowles isn't as good as Van Dijk, for example. But he's better than any defender at either of Aberdeen or Hibs. So, make of that what you will. Just one wee teeny example there, could go through all the signings if you want. Actually, I retract that, I can't. But I COULD if I was bothered or had the time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soonbe110 Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 12 hours ago, OTT said: I think Savage has repeatedly tried to distance himself from the recruitment, but obviously it still ends up blowing back on him - ultimate responsibility as Sporting Director. Anyway, there isn't a club out there with a 100% strike rate. Would say that we should really be looking at our 3rd 3rd place finish in a row which would be one of the most successful periods in our recent history in terms of league performance. That reflects well on Savage (Robbie ****ed 3rd last season), he did a lot of the recruitment in terms of senior personel within the football department - Lancefield, McAvoy, Webster now too and I believe Naismith based on the likelihood his view carried weight? About the only thing missing from his tenure is a trophy. I share frustration on a lot of the development job type signings, but thats the area of the market we're stuck with. If Rowles or Vargas were the full ticket, they'd not be here. Its just about making sure that players we expect to play every week are as reliable as possible. Kent has been such a shrewd signing. I can think of maybe 2 bad games he's had. Players like that give the younger players that are here to develop and hopefully be sold on the platform to do exactly that. Rowles has came on leaps and bounds with Kent next to him. Tait and Denholm have both spoken about how helpful Beni & Devlin have been. I'm sure Forrest has been really helpful for Oda and Kingsley has absolutely been useful for Cochranes development too. Good points but too many project players for me. We need to fill the critical gaps in the squad with quality now, not sign someone who might make the grade in 6/12/18 months time. Last season and this season cb and rb were clear weaknesses. Instead of sorting them we signed projects like Kio, Vargas, Oda, Tagawa etc. I’d be happy with two or three project strikers at the moment because in all probability Shanks will be away. We only have one in reality. That really would be squad planning and building. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soonbe110 Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 9 hours ago, Pasquale for King said: I think they worked together at Norwich and Savage helped him get the job, can’t see them falling out unless there’s players coming in that the manager doesn’t want, which seems unlikely. One day we will find out if that was the case, hopefully soon. Lots of stories that Savage and McKinlay wanted experience in the summer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soonbe110 Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 9 hours ago, Pasquale for King said: Yes he played in the championship for us under RN, I have mentioned your memory before, he scored in the December 2020 Scottish cup final weeks before Savage started. PNE is definitely in the UK also, a poor signing for them by Savage really. 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 14 minutes ago, soonbe110 said: One day we will find out if that was the case, hopefully soon. Lots of stories that Savage and McKinlay wanted experience in the summer Lots of stories...end of story. 😄 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ari Gold Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 If Savage has signed poor players then our current and previous managers have done really well to finish in the top 4 with such a bad squad. But then people also moan about the managers not good enough either. Both can't be right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smithian Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 (edited) 18 hours ago, Greedy Jambo said: I wouldn't be bothered if Savage left, a couple of good signings but far more crap ones. Good Frankie Kent Vargas Shankland Cochrane Rowles Devlin McKay Ginnelly Fine Grant Clark Oda Atkinson Beni Forrest Bad Kio - but he flipped him for a fee Sibbick Snodgrass Too Early Hof Tagawa Neilson I am certain there are quibbles on individual players, but that's how I see it. I'm not seeing the math that it's all bad? I didn't list some loanees but overall that seems pretty good. Hearts haven't had some huge influx of talented academy players that have lifted play. It's been almost all transfers and loans. Edited February 27 by Smithian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soonbe110 Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 1 hour ago, Smithian said: Good Frankie Kent Vargas Shankland Cochrane Rowles Devlin McKay Ginnelly Fine Grant Clark Oda Atkinson Beni Forrest Bad Kio - but he flipped him for a fee Sibbick Snodgrass Too Early Hof Tagawa Neilson I am certain there are quibbles on individual players, but that's how I see it. I'm not seeing the math that it's all bad? I didn't list some loanees but overall that seems pretty good. Hearts haven't had some huge influx of talented academy players that have lifted play. It's been almost all transfers and loans. Shankland, McKay, Ginnelly, Clark, Snodgrass and Neilson were all Neilson signings I think Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luckies1874 Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 3 hours ago, Ari Gold said: If Savage has signed poor players then our current and previous managers have done really well to finish in the top 4 with such a bad squad. But then people also moan about the managers not good enough either. Both can't be right. This isn’t a comment either way re Savage but it would be very difficult for a Hearts manager / Head Coach to finish outside the top 4 over the last 3 seasons, including this. And personally I expect that trend to continue. As we all know money talks at all level of football these days and frankly even at our level the gap in resources, infrastructure and support we have over most clubs in Scotland is becoming more evident each season. We need to win our league within the league most seasons and we are more than capable of doing that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 2 hours ago, Smithian said: Good Frankie Kent Vargas Shankland Cochrane Rowles Devlin McKay Ginnelly Fine Grant Clark Oda Atkinson Beni Forrest Bad Kio - but he flipped him for a fee Sibbick Snodgrass Too Early Hof Tagawa Neilson I am certain there are quibbles on individual players, but that's how I see it. I'm not seeing the math that it's all bad? I didn't list some loanees but overall that seems pretty good. Hearts haven't had some huge influx of talented academy players that have lifted play. It's been almost all transfers and loans. You missed out Gnanduillet, McEneff, Kastaneer, Logan. Ginnelly was here on loan before he got here so hes not really one of his either. Hes done a decent job but he’s not irreplaceable by any means. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 2 minutes ago, Luckies1874 said: This isn’t a comment either way re Savage but it would be very difficult for a Hearts manager / Head Coach to finish outside the top 4 over the last 3 seasons, including this. And personally I expect that trend to continue. As we all know money talks at all level of football these days and frankly even at our level the gap in resources, infrastructure and support we have over most clubs in Scotland is becoming more evident each season. We need to win our league within the league most seasons and we are more than capable of doing that. Spot on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ari Gold Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 36 minutes ago, Luckies1874 said: This isn’t a comment either way re Savage but it would be very difficult for a Hearts manager / Head Coach to finish outside the top 4 over the last 3 seasons, including this. And personally I expect that trend to continue. As we all know money talks at all level of football these days and frankly even at our level the gap in resources, infrastructure and support we have over most clubs in Scotland is becoming more evident each season. We need to win our league within the league most seasons and we are more than capable of doing that. I agree but it's not always been a given in the past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ari Gold Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 3 hours ago, Smithian said: Good Frankie Kent Vargas Shankland Cochrane Rowles Devlin McKay Ginnelly Fine Grant Clark Oda Atkinson Beni Forrest Bad Kio - but he flipped him for a fee Sibbick Snodgrass Too Early Hof Tagawa Neilson I am certain there are quibbles on individual players, but that's how I see it. I'm not seeing the math that it's all bad? I didn't list some loanees but overall that seems pretty good. Hearts haven't had some huge influx of talented academy players that have lifted play. It's been almost all transfers and loans. Has it ever been confirmed how much we got back for Kio? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smithian Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 1 hour ago, soonbe110 said: Shankland, McKay, Ginnelly, Clark, Snodgrass and Neilson were all Neilson signings I think Every signing is a joint signing at some level. Whether it be the recruitment team going to Neilson/Naismith with an idea or vice versa. I have no idea how to break those down, so I am just putting all the good and all the bad on Savage. 57 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said: You missed out Gnanduillet, McEneff, Kastaneer, Logan. Ginnelly was here on loan before he got here so hes not really one of his either. Hes done a decent job but he’s not irreplaceable by any means. I'd drop all those in the "fine" bucket. Though I still think McEneff would have been quality with more pitch time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 1 minute ago, Smithian said: Every signing is a joint signing at some level. Whether it be the recruitment team going to Neilson/Naismith with an idea or vice versa. I have no idea how to break those down, so I am just putting all the good and all the bad on Savage. I'd drop all those in the "fine" bucket. Though I still think McEneff would have been quality with more pitch time. Agree with that. Whether a manager can get a tune out of the players you find him is definitely part of how good a job you are perceived to be doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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