Summer 24 Transfers - Vargas signs 5 year deal ( updated )

[rory78]

1 hour ago, Rods said:

Danny Armstrong seems to fit the clubs signing policy or what we have been told anyway that we will look to players who are coming into their peak.

 

I wonder if Killie would accept a cash + Forrest swap for Armstrong. However I think Armstrong himself might fancy a tilt at England and earn some big bucks.

Forrest won't be going anywhere he just signed a new contract and I'd be pretty sure he'll be on more than Killie would want to offer him 

[Carter]

12 minutes ago, Uncle Buck said:

A fit Boyce, McKay and Halkett are up there with our most important players. I’m hoping they get over their injury issues next season. Forrest also has most assists for us this season with 5. Grant is second with 4. Would seem strange to get rid of them too.

Grant illustrated on Sunday that he simply isn't the answer. 

[Rods]

1 hour ago, rory78 said:

Forrest won't be going anywhere he just signed a new contract and I'd be pretty sure he'll be on more than Killie would want to offer him 

Such a shame as Forrest is part of an issue I was hoping would be resolved next season. 

[johnking123]

Forrest will be good sub. We will need a stronger squad next season.

[soonbe110]

3 hours ago, RustyRightPeg said:

 

Why do you not think we'd get good money for Cochrane?

 

Other clubs in the country are able to sell for 7 figures. Why can't we?

Beats me, we just don’t do we?  

[soonbe110]

3 hours ago, Batistuta87 said:

Its absolutely nothing to do with transfer fees - its estimated market values. They are completely different.

And I can guarantee you 100% that some clubs and players absolutely do use it.

 

Is a market value relevant? What does it mean if it doesn’t reflect expected cost of acquiring that player? 

[soonbe110]

4 hours ago, Batistuta87 said:

 

 

Its far from pie in the sky or "pure speculation" and is in fact industry recognised with a lot of solid professional research behind their figures. They have scouts and analysts - both professional and voluntary - all across the world feeding data and analytics in to them, and they use actual market analysis and actual club accounts for the financial side of things.

 

Clubs and players themselves use it too. Especially smaller clubs who might not have big scouting networks and paid services like WyScout etc. They will use Transfermrkt for a very basic assessment of a player's value, and will quickly be able to tell if that player is at or around their level. I've seen players offering themselves to clubs and going "here's my Transfermrkt profile"... It's not going to be 100% accurate because its all estimates - but there is some solid work and research goes into those figures and the estimates are regarded as being fairly accurate within the industry. 

 

Well just pick a dozen names that you know of and then look them up on transfermarkt and the ‘market values’ , whatever they are, are a long way away from what would be required to buy those players.  I mentioned two earlier, looked at several others, and found it hard to take the ‘market values’ seriously.  Others on here will probably have the same difficulty.  An example Devlin £800k, Shankland £2.5m seriously? Beni £900k? Rowles £1m? Kent £1m, Kingsley £1m, McKay £800k 

[soonbe110]

2 hours ago, Dayman said:

Performing at Hampden doesn’t equate to a good player. Matt Doherty had a shocker in the 5-1 and was sold for £14m+ million, albeit he was in Scotland on loan.

 

He’s a young, athletic and versatile player but that isn’t what adds most to his value.

 

Cochrane was well thought of at Brighton but wasn’t seen to be good enough for the first team, which isn’t an awful thing considering their current level. This added onto the fact that he is English, really helps inflate a value

 

You may not think he is a £2million player, but he probably will sell for that or more, given the above info. He’s up there with as one of our most valuable assets I’d say.

 

McKenna went for £5 million, that would have been £10 million if he was born 200 miles south! 

Has to be this summer so we shall see in the next 2/3 months. 

[soonbe110]

2 hours ago, Watt-Zeefuik said:

 

Can only assume you've not paid close attention to the fees paid for players from other clubs in Scotland in the past few years. £1.5m is very little for clubs chasing promotion to the EPL. Aberdeen got £2m plus addons for Ross McCrorie on the back of 33 appearances in his final season. £1.5m for Cochrane is hardly a big ask.

 

Money-wise our biggest two games were against PAOK and he started both.

Championship clubs are fast running out of money.  Huge debts being built up in that league. 

[Batistuta87]

55 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Is a market value relevant? What does it mean if it doesn’t reflect expected cost of acquiring that player? 

It is yes, because if a team has players with an average market value of £500k then they know they can aim for similarly valued players and probably can't go for guys valued at £3M, £4M. It's like a very rough guide. 

 

[Watt-Zeefuik]

56 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Championship clubs are fast running out of money.  Huge debts being built up in that league. 

Huddersfield, Hull, Sunderland, and Stoke all just spent over £3m each in the January window alone.

 

Ah, but the news says it's a "bubble waiting to burst." In 2019.

 

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/50674331

 

Yes, I know, they're all paying Vlad-silly wages down there but they're also getting ~£8m/club in media payments alone, plus you have those coming in with parachute payments. It's all nonsense but it's not going to stop in the summer of 2024 all of the sudden.

[mitch41]

What Steven Naismith needs to find out from Savage & McKinley is what is the budget for the 24/25 season. What is available for new players wages/fees, who can he move on to free wages & add income to the Budget. Hearts will need a good sized squad of players that can hold down a place in the team when needed and above all players that thrive in a Hampden semi final or a final. This season coming is going to be the most important for quiet some time and our fans have been supportive, loyal & patient through all the ups and downs since our last major trophy in 2012. So with the 3 new players joining Hearts through freedom of contract it has brought a sense of feelings that we’re on the right road but I recon we will be needing much more.

[Pasquale for King]

9 hours ago, JamboAl said:

He signed loads of players which became necessary when admin left us with very little money and few players.

Was he supposed to put out a 5 a side team?

He tried to build incrementally which we are also doing now but at a higher level as reflected by our greater wealth with money from Europe, james Anderson and FoH.

Most of the guys he signed when RN was there were successful, apart from Oshonuwa who cost us well over a million all told. When RN left the players he brought in were awful bar a few successes that wnded up with our relegation. Thars a fact. 
Thankfully we have far more professional people recruiting players now. 

Edited April 24 by Pasquale for King

[Pasquale for King]

Cant see anyone willing to pay more than £1m for Cochrane tbh, hes not good enough going forward to be LWB and cant defend well enough to play LB for a good Championship team. 

[Pasquale for King]

1 hour ago, soonbe110 said:

Championship clubs are fast running out of money.  Huge debts being built up in that league. 

Which should help us keep our players and compete as their bubble bursts. 

[JamboAl]

2 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

Most of the guys he signed when RN was there were successful, apart from Oshonuwa who cost us well over a million all told. When RN left the players he brought in were awful bar a few successes that wnded up with our relegation. Thars a fact. 
Thankfully we have far more professional people recruiting players now. 

And many on here thought CL was pulling RN's strings.  That's a fact.

And we have more money to be more professional.  That too is a fact.

 

[bawheed]

2 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

Most of the guys he signed when RN was there were successful, apart from Oshonuwa who cost us well over a million all told. When RN left the players he brought in were awful bar a few successes that wnded up with our relegation. Thars a fact. 
Thankfully we have far more professional people recruiting players now. 

RN brought in Shankland and he was his choice not JS’s

[Pasquale for King]

8 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

And many on here thought CL was pulling RN's strings.  That's a fact.

And we have more money to be more professional.  That too is a fact.

 

He was, but RN obviously had an input on players.
If he hadnt wasted so much or thought he could do everything he could’ve been more professional. He had more than enough money to make us successful and he got us relegated. 
Thank **** the club learned that lesson and our recruitment process is the way it should be nowadays. 

[Selkirkhmfc1874]

2 hours ago, mitch41 said:

What Steven Naismith needs to find out from Savage & McKinley is what is the budget for the 24/25 season. What is available for new players wages/fees, who can he move on to free wages & add income to the Budget. Hearts will need a good sized squad of players that can hold down a place in the team when needed and above all players that thrive in a Hampden semi final or a final. This season coming is going to be the most important for quiet some time and our fans have been supportive, loyal & patient through all the ups and downs since our last major trophy in 2012. So with the 3 new players joining Hearts through freedom of contract it has brought a sense of feelings that we’re on the right road but I recon we will be needing much more.

He'll already know the budget I'd imagine 

[Pasquale for King]

2 minutes ago, bawheed said:

RN brought in Shankland and he was his choice not JS’s

He deserves Ll the credit for that, as does SN for making him better. 

[Pasquale for King]

Just now, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

He'll already know the budget I'd imagine 

You would hope so, having signed 3 players already. 
Not sure why folk think the recruitment peocess would wait until now to start looking at players. 

[tiger Rudi]

4 hours ago, johnking123 said:

Forrest will be good sub. We will need a stronger squad next season.

I would class Grant, Oda and Sibbick in the same category. Atkinson OK if playing wing back but we need better than all four of them for the starting 11 if playing a back 4.

Wouldn't really move many on tbh, we will need a big squad and all of the above can contribute when needed. Could lose Cochrane and Beni. 

RB a CB, a holding midfielder and an experienced wide player with a good delivery required. (Armstrong if possible). Youngish striker as well, even if Shanks stays. Get him ready for when we do eventually lose him. 

[Selkirkhmfc1874]

2 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

You would hope so, having signed 3 players already. 
Not sure why folk think the recruitment peocess would wait until now to start looking at players. 

Absolutely, as soon as 3rd confirmed I'd imagine we'll a bounce who's leaving aswell 

[JamboAl]

13 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

He was, but RN obviously had an input on players.
If he hadnt wasted so much or thought he could do everything he could’ve been more professional. He had more than enough money to make us successful and he got us relegated. 
Thank **** the club learned that lesson and our recruitment process is the way it should be nowadays. 

So RN was partially responsible. Eh?

He (CL) did waste much as it turned out with hindsight but he did not have the cash to acquire such footballing wizards as Gnanduillet, Kasteneer, Kio, Kuol etc.

Thank **** the club has more money than it had then but even now if you read this thread you will see that many many fans want rid of more recent signings such as Grant, Forrest, Sibbick etc.  That calls into question your new professionalism.

[Watt-Zeefuik]

Obviously it's not his call in the end but reading this HS article Atkinson certainly doesn't sound like he expects to be going anywhere in the summer.

 

https://www.heartsstandard.co.uk/news/24271585.hearts-defender-makes-steven-naismith-silverware-claim/

 

At the very least he's not angling for a move back home himself.

 

I'm sure he knows another RB will be brought in. He comes across well in the interview.

[CMc]

14 hours ago, TheBigO said:

Me too.  Contract situations can change things but I hope the club these days is of a mind to say "ach we'd rather keep him a year than sell due to contract length".  Stick our chest out a bit.  Plenty players go for big money with a year left.

 

Personally hope he signs up again.  Always do when he's good, and Alex is good.

Absolutely. 
 

Cochrane on a Bosman would have loads of clubs interested, which in turn would raise the wage bidding. 
 

By the time a few extra £k a week and an increased signing fee has been added on, clubs could likely have stuck an extra half million on the bid to get him early and not have so many competitors. 

[Sooks]

16 hours ago, OTT said:

Lets wait and see before talking down the valuation of our players eh. 

That would be a novel approach for some

[NottsJambo]

12 hours ago, johnking123 said:

Forrest will be good sub. We will need a stronger squad next season.

Question is, how many more do we actually need?

Team A
1.Clark
2. Atkinson
3. Cochrane
4. Rowles
5. Kent
6. Beni
7. Hoff
8. Dandha
9. Shanks
10. Vargas
11. Spitall

 

Team B
1. Gordon
2. Sibbick
3. Penrice
4. Kingsley
5. Halkett
6. Neilson
7. Denholm
8. Devlin
9. Tagawa
10. Oda
11. McKay

Not used
Grant
Tait
Forrest
Boyce

(This is not a case of picking which is the best team/formation) it's only to point out the depth of the squad already there.)

[Chimp]

12 hours ago, johnking123 said:

Forrest will be good sub. We will need a stronger squad next season.

 

Funny what a few months can do. Most on here had him as one of the first names on the team sheet and a guaranteed starter. Never been a big fan of Forrest but credited him when he was doing well. Looks like he might have just hit a wee purple patch though and nothing more as he's done very little since then and almost back to what he was like previously. Working hard but not really producing much. He'll be fine as a sub yeah but we absolutely need better.

[Sooks]

Hibs fans talking up Ellie Youan as a player they can sell for two million and there are guys on here scoffing at two million for Cochrane 

[RustyRightPeg]

26 minutes ago, NottsJambo said:

Question is, how many more do we actually need?

Team A
1.Clark
2. Atkinson
3. Cochrane
4. Rowles
5. Kent
6. Beni
7. Hoff
8. Dandha
9. Shanks
10. Vargas
11. Spitall

 

Team B
1. Gordon
2. Sibbick
3. Penrice
4. Kingsley
5. Halkett
6. Neilson
7. Denholm
8. Devlin
9. Tagawa
10. Oda
11. McKay

Not used
Grant
Tait
Forrest
Boyce

(This is not a case of picking which is the best team/formation) it's only to point out the depth of the squad already there.)

 

You haven't factored in sales here at all.

 

We're likely going to lose Beni, Shanks and Cochrane. 3 mainstays in the team who will leave enormous holes. We will lose others too.

 

I think we're gonna sign 7 or 8 bodies.

[Chimp]

20 minutes ago, Sooks said:

Hibs fans talking up Ellie Youan as a player they can sell for two million and there are guys on here scoffing at two million for Cochrane 

 

Hibs always seem to be better at bigging up their players than us. Not sure why. 

[Rick Sanchez]

Naismith keeps banging on about doing things faster and making better decisions. Quite regularly tbh.

 

But who has a ceiling on learning that and who simple can't do it? We won't be doing it if we can't do it.

 

We definitely need to recruit a more clinical wide man IMO.

[jock _turd]

Someone is quoted as saying the high dive merchant at Rangers was bought by Wolves for £45 million FFS he is guff. Here we are talking about Shankland for less that 5Million... honestly who is going to get you more goals?

[OTT]

4 minutes ago, Rick Sanchez said:

Naismith keeps banging on about doing things faster and making better decisions. Quite regularly tbh.

 

But who has a ceiling on learning that and who simple can't do it? We won't be doing it if we can't do it.

 

We definitely need to recruit a more clinical wide man IMO.

 

I think you've hit the nail on the head there.

 

McKay & Oda are of the required standard, albeit Oda is more effective as an impact sub at the moment. Beyond that, Forrest isn't fit for purpose, and IMO Vargas isn't a winger.

 

Getting a higher calibre winger in (at least one given we have Dhanda and Spittal coming in) would be excellent. Assuming we sell Cochrane & have the European money coming in, Danny Armstrong is wholly within our grasp if we're prepared to pay the money. Might be able to offload Forrest too, which would be excellent. 

[Sooks]

11 minutes ago, Chimp said:

 

Hibs always seem to be better at bigging up their players than us. Not sure why. 

Totally . Now that we no longer have the millstone of huge debts around our necks , we can choose to hold on to players and only let them go before the end of their contract with us , if a team is willing or able to meet our valuation . That is how I think the club should be looking at it anyway . Instead of setting out to try and make money from player sales as a priority , I would prefer to keep the good ones for the entirety of their contract . A transfer fee should be compensation for letting a good player leave , and not an aim imo

[JimmyCant]

15 minutes ago, OTT said:

 

I think you've hit the nail on the head there.

 

McKay & Oda are of the required standard, albeit Oda is more effective as an impact sub at the moment. Beyond that, Forrest isn't fit for purpose, and IMO Vargas isn't a winger.

 

Getting a higher calibre winger in (at least one given we have Dhanda and Spittal coming in) would be excellent. Assuming we sell Cochrane & have the European money coming in, Danny Armstrong is wholly within our grasp if we're prepared to pay the money. Might be able to offload Forrest too, which would be excellent. 

Funny thing opinions. Forrest has probably produced more than Oda and McKay combined. If I was looking to move any of them on (we’re probably not) it’d be Mckay. Probably the most talent of the 3 but constantly injured and terribly inconsistent 
 

You are right about the overall lack of quality in that area of the pitch though. Armstrong solves that but he’s in the £1million ballpark and I’m not convinced we have a board that would pay that, even though we could afford it and the player is worth it.

Edited April 25 by JimmyCant

[JimmyCant]

18 minutes ago, Chimp said:

 

Hibs always seem to be better at bigging up their players than us. Not sure why. 

They can big them up all they like but the league table doesn’t lie about their group of players. Fans valuation means nothing really. To be fair though, their sales record isn’t bad. It’s their incoming record that’s showing them up.

 

To quote a previous manager ‘ If you think you get an advantage by losing, then keep losing’

[FJT]

6 minutes ago, Sooks said:

Totally . Now that we no longer have the millstone of huge debts around our necks , we can choose to hold on to players and only let them go before the end of their contract with us , if a team is willing or able to meet our valuation . That is how I think the club should be looking at it anyway . Instead of setting out to try and make money from player sales as a priority , I would prefer to keep the good ones for the entirety of their contract . A transfer fee should be compensation for letting a good player leave , and not an aim imo

Yes. If you don’t think you can improve on the player we already have, then do your best to keep them. 
Guess it’s obviously much more complicated than that, but it’s good to be in a better position financially which makes that a more realistic option. 👍

[Chimp]

10 minutes ago, Sooks said:

Totally . Now that we no longer have the millstone of huge debts around our necks , we can choose to hold on to players and only let them go before the end of their contract with us , if a team is willing or able to meet our valuation . That is how I think the club should be looking at it anyway . Instead of setting out to try and make money from player sales as a priority , I would prefer to keep the good ones for the entirety of their contract . A transfer fee should be compensation for letting a good player leave , and not an aim imo

 

100%. 

[RustyRightPeg]

38 minutes ago, Chimp said:

 

Hibs always seem to be better at bigging up their players than us. Not sure why. 

 

Delusion?

[TheBigO]

16 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

Funny thing opinions. Forrest has probably produced more than Oda and McKay combined. If I was looking to move any of them on (we’re probably not) it’d be Mckay. Probably the most talent of the 3 but constantly injured and terribly inconsistent 
 

You are right about the overall lack of quality in that area of the pitch though. Armstrong solves that but he’s in the £1million ballpark and I’m not convinced we have a board that would pay that, even though we could afford it and the player is worth it.

Aye cos I'm with OTT on this one.  I think McKay is wholly underrated.  He's been a big miss this season for us in unlocking defences in packed games.  And Oda, rememember is young and has had a real stop-start season.  What he's produced per-minute has been excellent really, and I think he has a big season ahead of him imo.  He's one who does have impact - we're talking about ceiling on ability to do things faster and more aggressively, I think Yutaro's ceiling is high on this.  The way he zips passes first time, looks to play one-twos on the move, and how he is always looking to get shots off.  Really like the lad.

 

Forrest is what he is and I like him for it.  Not against having Allan Forrest in our squad at all.  That famous old Thurs-Sun squad depth thing. If Forrest is a Sunday guy away at Motherwell after we've played Fiorentina away on the Thursday, I'm not against that in the slightest.

 

But at the same time, continual and gradual improvement is the obvious and correct approach at Hearts, so if we can replace Forrest (or ANYONE else) with better we should and will.

[Chimp]

55 minutes ago, RustyRightPeg said:

 

You haven't factored in sales here at all.

 

We're likely going to lose Beni, Shanks and Cochrane. 3 mainstays in the team who will leave enormous holes. We will lose others too.

 

I think we're gonna sign 7 or 8 bodies.

 

You can't really factor in sales unless you know that there will be any for definite. Granted Beni is likely to leave on a free, I'm not sure the club will sell Shanks as it could be more beneficial to keep him to contribute to our success next season. Because of his age, lack of pace and the fact he's only got a year left on his contract, I don't see anyone coming in with an offer that would meet our valuation. It may still happen but we'll see.

Cochrane in a similar boat, I think the club would cash in on him for a reasonable offer but I'm not convinced there will be a bidding war for him. Even if he were to be sold, I don't agree he would leave an enormous hole. Kingsley is already a better LB in my opinion and Penrice has been signed as backup to that position anyway.

[Chimp]

5 minutes ago, RustyRightPeg said:

 

Delusion?

 

Yep most likely!

[TheBigO]

41 minutes ago, Chimp said:

 

Hibs always seem to be better at bigging up their players than us. Not sure why. 

 

2 minutes ago, RustyRightPeg said:

 

Delusion?

Partly delusion, but moreso cos it matters to them.  Firstly, they NEED to sell and have for years.  Ironically that's because they spend outwith their means, and have done for years.  The sales prop them.

 

Secondly, it's a metric by which they measure themselves.  They see selling a player as success - we see keeping a player as success.  That's both in our boardroom and as a fanbase.

 

We'll sell players and probably need to get better at it, but the truth is our first option will be to offer the contract.  Hibs as soon as someone gets a goal or an 8 out of 10 in the paper, they're all over valuations and the for sale signs are up.  I said it about Josh Campbel this season, he'd the next touted.  The little scrote got injured, but he scored 2 goals just before and the chat had started about his value and "interested parties".  Even though he's pish!

[Chimp]

1 minute ago, TheBigO said:

 

Partly delusion, but moreso cos it matters to them.  Firstly, they NEED to sell and have for years.  Ironically that's because they spend outwith their means, and have done for years.  The sales prop them.

 

Secondly, it's a metric by which they measure themselves.  They see selling a player as success - we see keeping a player as success.  That's both in our boardroom and as a fanbase.

 

We'll sell players and probably need to get better at it, but the truth is our first option will be to offer the contract.  Hibs as soon as someone gets a goal or an 8 out of 10 in the paper, they're all over valuations and the for sale signs are up.  I said it about Josh Campbel this season, he'd the next touted.  The little scrote got injured, but he scored 2 goals just before and the chat had started about his value and "interested parties".  Even though he's pish!

 

Fair points. 

 

On Josh Campbell, I saw articles of him being touted for Scotland 😂 I've never seen anything from him to warrant any hype and agree is absolutely pish.

Not normally one to celebrate a bad injury but the fact it was caused by him trying to seriously injure Beni he totally deserved it. Can see him falling down into the lower leagues in a few years and ending up at the likes of Inverness or Raith.

[King prawn]

1 hour ago, RustyRightPeg said:

 

You haven't factored in sales here at all.

 

We're likely going to lose Beni, Shanks and Cochrane. 3 mainstays in the team who will leave enormous holes. We will lose others too.

 

I think we're gonna sign 7 or 8 bodies.

We’ve got 3 on pre contracts - we’re not gonna go back to having a squad of 27 if Shankland, Beni and Cochrane leave. 

[RustyRightPeg]

8 minutes ago, King prawn said:

We’ve got 3 on pre contracts - we’re not gonna go back to having a squad of 27 if Shankland, Beni and Cochrane leave. 

 

You don't think after Sunday Naismith will want a few more out the door?

[TheBigO]

19 minutes ago, Chimp said:

 

Fair points. 

 

On Josh Campbell, I saw articles of him being touted for Scotland 😂 I've never seen anything from him to warrant any hype and agree is absolutely pish.

Not normally one to celebrate a bad injury but the fact it was caused by him trying to seriously injure Beni he totally deserved it. Can see him falling down into the lower leagues in a few years and ending up at the likes of Inverness or Raith.

Totally, he's a prime example of "hibs class" in every way.  Bang average, actually a thug, but fully romanticised and overhyped.

 

Same as you on the injury.  Never one to celebrate it but this one, after his challenge on Bazza in the semi, his assault in another derby last season and then his attempt to hurt Beni after having the pish taken out of him.  This was sweet.  A deserved injury.

[Sooks]

I think we underestimate the quality of our league sometimes too . When we were playing against an Aberdeen team with Ferguson in it , was anyone shitting it ? Not me , I could see he was a very good player , but I was happy with our players in that area of the pitch and knew they could handle him . Look at what he is doing now . Same with Hickey and Doig . Possibly say the same with Irving . However when these players are at Hearts we criminally under value them as fans , and then they go up a level and do well 

 

 

 

Edited April 25 by Sooks