Zander Clark vs Craig Gordon ( merged )

[Uncle Buck]

Clark is our number one until he goes on a bad run. Made a great save in the first half last night.

 

Gordon is obviously the better keeper.

[TexasAndy]

What an inspired signing Clark was.  Nobody saw Gordon getting injured but Clark has been a brilliant replacement.  Clark's form has really improved since Gordon got fit.  It just shows the value of having competition for places.  Not many teams have two international keepers in their squad.

[gregzy2k7]

Would like to see Gordon play in a game against decent opposition at Tynecastle, maybe could put him in against Aberdeen just to see if he can still do it against top league opposition and then Clark back in next week against Dundee away.

It's a big call but no reason why both keepers can't play and rotate.

[gorgierulesapply88]

6 hours ago, Dazo said:

 

From top to bottom utter shite. 

Your view is that of someone which hasn't played in goals 👍

[RustyRightPeg]

2 minutes ago, gorgierulesapply88 said:

Your view is that of someone which hasn't played in goals 👍

 

I've played against you Willie. Steady.

[tiger Rudi]

On 24/01/2024 at 08:28, Uncle Buck said:

Clark is our number one until he goes on a bad run. Made a great save in the first half last night.

 

Gordon is obviously the better keeper.

Not really faulting Zander, but part of me thinks Gordon might have saved Dundee's first goal. He's slightly taller and even at his age has a better spring in his step IMHO. 

As I say, maybe a bit harsh on Zander as not many keepers would have got to it.

I think Craig would have.

Craig's tip over the bar against Spartans was maybe routine for him, but he looked like he's lost none of his agility. 

Very tough call but my opinion has changed. I would like Craig back as number 1.

 

[kingantti1874]

Why is it that for every outfield position.  We play our best player.  But for goalkeeper we have to wait for Zander to make a mistake before playing our best keeper.

 

i like Zander, he’s a very decent goalie and by all means under normal circumstances id be fine with him.  But, this isn’t normal. Craig is the club captain and finest player in the history of the club.  He didn’t lose the position through performances, he lost it on account of a horrendous injury.

 

the only negative I have with naisy RN. 
 

the only fair solution would be to give them a run of 5 games each and see who does better . 

[Uncle Buck]

25 minutes ago, tiger Rudi said:

Not really faulting Zander, but part of me thinks Gordon might have saved Dundee's first goal. He's slightly taller and even at his age has a better spring in his step IMHO. 

As I say, maybe a bit harsh on Zander as not many keepers would have got to it.

I think Craig would have.

Craig's tip over the bar against Spartans was maybe routine for him, but he looked like he's lost none of his agility. 

Very tough call but my opinion has changed. I would like Craig back as number 1.

 

There’s no doubt Gordon is quicker and more agile. Clark seems to do a lot of lifting his foot up rather than diving down low. As I’ve said though, we’re lucky to have both.

[David McCaig]

2 hours ago, tiger Rudi said:

Not really faulting Zander, but part of me thinks Gordon might have saved Dundee's first goal. He's slightly taller and even at his age has a better spring in his step IMHO. 

As I say, maybe a bit harsh on Zander as not many keepers would have got to it.

I think Craig would have.

Craig's tip over the bar against Spartans was maybe routine for him, but he looked like he's lost none of his agility. 

Very tough call but my opinion has changed. I would like Craig back as number 1.

 

The saves Craig made at Livvy last season are a good example of the saves he makes that other keepers don't get close to

 

[mayfield]

On 24/01/2024 at 19:38, gregzy2k7 said:

Would like to see Gordon play in a game against decent opposition at Tynecastle, maybe could put him in against Aberdeen just to see if he can still do it against top league opposition and then Clark back in next week against Dundee away.

It's a big call but no reason why both keepers can't play and rotate.

 For the love of God NO. 
Keeper rotation is always a disaster implemented by managers who have utterly donkeys about goalkeeping and their mentality as a whole. Continuity and flow is critical.

Drop Xander now, get Craig in.  What are we waiting for? Xander is an average keeper at best. 

[escobri]

Clark was easily beaten for both goals against Dundee imo , half a step better positioning for the 1st and he’s saving it easily, the 2nd the defence let him down big time so I won’t be overly critical of him.  I would like Gordon in goals today though I doubt Naismith will drop Clark for this fixture.

[ri Alban]

9 hours ago, kingantti1874 said:

Why is it that for every outfield position.  We play our best player.  But for goalkeeper we have to wait for Zander to make a mistake before playing our best keeper.

 

i like Zander, he’s a very decent goalie and by all means under normal circumstances id be fine with him.  But, this isn’t normal. Craig is the club captain and finest player in the history of the club.  He didn’t lose the position through performances, he lost it on account of a horrendous injury.

 

the only negative I have with naisy RN. 
 

the only fair solution would be to give them a run of 5 games each and see who does better . 

You go with the form keeper. End of. 

I jury and age will have caught up with CG, so let's play the guy in possession of the jersey. Say, he plays CG and he gets injured, ZC would just be like 🖕 Well, i would. 

 

[ri Alban]

6 hours ago, David McCaig said:

The saves Craig made at Livvy last season are a good example of the saves he makes that other keepers don't get close to

 

And Zander wouldn't have got injured,  cause he's younger and quicker than Craig. 

[kingantti1874]

4 hours ago, ri Alban said:

You go with the form keeper. End of. 

I jury and age will have caught up with CG, so let's play the guy in possession of the jersey. Say, he plays CG and he gets injured, ZC would just be like 🖕 Well, i would. 

 

Injury and age have caught up with Craig? Have they? Before he was injured he was better than Zander has ever been. Everyone at the club saying he is back to his best.l and on his solo game he looked back to his best.

 

I like zander.  But he’s #2 until proven otherwise . If he doesn’t like that then he can move on. Unlike Craig he’s replaceable 

[kingantti1874]

4 hours ago, ri Alban said:

And Zander wouldn't have got injured,  cause he's younger and quicker than Craig. 

well he wouldn’t have got injured, he’d have hesitated and united would have scored becuase one of his big weakness is timing when to come off his line 🤣 and there are countless examples. 

[DS98]

8 hours ago, ri Alban said:

And Zander wouldn't have got injured,  cause he's younger and quicker than Craig. 

Oh ffs 🤣

[hereford_hearts]

Benny's out for a year and goes straight back in. 

Craig's out for a year and doesn't. 

Probably 2 of our most important players. 

Discuss. 

[Mikey1874]

Not what happened 

[Mikey1874]

Though could do with some people finding fault.

[johnking123]

11 minutes ago, hereford_hearts said:

Benny's out for a year and goes straight back in. 

Craig's out for a year and doesn't. 

Probably 2 of our most important players. 

Discuss. 

Let's not

[Benny Klack]

I don’t think this is a true reflection of what happened though.

 

If you are trying to spark a genuine debate I’d suggest that Gordon didn’t get straight back in because he plays a unique position in the team where the individual holding the shirt in that position was in cracking form. 

[hereford_hearts]

15 minutes ago, Benny Klack said:

I don’t think this is a true reflection of what happened though.

 

If you are trying to spark a genuine debate I’d suggest that Gordon didn’t get straight back in because he plays a unique position in the team where the individual holding the shirt in that position was in cracking form. 

And that is exactly the debate I'm looking for. 

Reasoned argument. 

Thanks. 

[CMc]

1 hour ago, hereford_hearts said:

Benny's out for a year and goes straight back in. 

Craig's out for a year and doesn't. 

Probably 2 of our most important players. 

Discuss. 

Weird op.

 

Spelling aside, we were incredibly cautious with Beni. Even when he came back, he was in and out of the team. he was absolutely not straight back in. 
 

Gordon has been slotted in to the cup games as soon as he was ready. 
 

This Opposite Day?
 

 

[Daktari]

There's four pages on this already. Many of your debating points may have been covered? 👍

[Buster HMFC]

1 hour ago, hereford_hearts said:

Benny's out for a year and goes straight back in. 

Craig's out for a year and doesn't. 

Probably 2 of our most important players. 

Discuss. 

Halkett hasn't been missed so far this season. Been more solid in defence when he isn't playing. 

[Batistuta87]

1 hour ago, hereford_hearts said:

Benny's out for a year and goes straight back in. 

Craig's out for a year and doesn't. 

Probably 2 of our most important players. 

Discuss. 

Halkett or Gordon?

 

In Gordon's case Zander came in and never put a foot wrong so pretty much made himself undroppable.

 

Same goes with Kent/Halkett. Kent has been unreal and arguably one of our players of the season. Rowles has done well, Kingsley has done well, so not an automatic place for Halks on his return.

 

In addition to being Naismith's guy Beni was probably lucky that Devlin was injured when he came back, and went straight back but even then nobody else really gave us that absolute composure in midfield. Snodgrass was probably the intended cover but never worked out and then I think Hof was a second attempt. 

 

He's now doing really well which means Devlin doesn't automatically go back in when he comes back 🤷🏻

 

Edited February 16 by Batistuta87

[The Treasurer]

57 minutes ago, hereford_hearts said:

And that is exactly the debate I'm looking for. 

Reasoned argument. 

Thanks. 

So who do you think was playing well in Beni's position that didn’t deserve to be dropped 

[kingantti1874]

4 minutes ago, The Treasurer said:

So who do you think was playing well in Beni's position that didn’t deserve to be dropped 

I think the point is you just play your best players. A hard situation for Naismith and Zander for sure

[gorgie rd eh11]

4 hours ago, hereford_hearts said:

Benny's out for a year and goes straight back in. 

Craig's out for a year and doesn't. 

Probably 2 of our most important players. 

Discuss. 

 

Troll.

[Pasquale for King]

Spot on, play your best players. 

[GinRummy]

I’d play Gordon because I think he’s better than Clark. Play your best players which usually goes you the best chance of winning the game. That said, we are winning nearly every game so hard to see how we could be doing much better.

[Russ1977]

I think Gordon has proved he’s still got it in the 2 cup games he’s played. Had a great reaction save against airdrie and commanded his box well by coming and taking a few crosses, something he’s usually not very keen on doing. For me he should be back in the starting 11 as he’s the better of the 2 keepers but I can see why Naisy is being loyal to Clark as he’s been playing well. 

[hereford_hearts]

22 hours ago, gorgie rd eh11 said:

 

Troll.

Not a troll, just asking a simple question. We are here to discuss things. I live 360 miles from Tynecastle, so don't get to many games, what with family etc, but I can send you pics of me at the last 3 hampden games. 

[Berrassobad]

17 hours ago, GinRummy said:

I’d play Gordon because I think he’s better than Clark. Play your best players which usually goes you the best chance of winning the game. That said, we are winning nearly every game so hard to see how we could be doing much better.

Wow - cmon - best run in most folks memory and youre dropping the keeper. I will assume its based on love for cg - you gotta let go man - hes in the twilight of his career - an icon of a man - has he complained once ? - this time next year its not even a conversation-  its a terrible thing ageing. regards

[Chimp]

14 minutes ago, Berrassobad said:

Wow - cmon - best run in most folks memory and youre dropping the keeper. I will assume its based on love for cg - you gotta let go man - hes in the twilight of his career - an icon of a man - has he complained once ? - this time next year its not even a conversation-  its a terrible thing ageing. regards

Gordon makes saves  Clark cannot - he’s club captain - he’s safer - he makes genuine world class saves - he’s a match winner - he’s a better goalkeeper - play your best players. Regards

Edited February 17 by Chimp

[colinmaroon]

22 minutes ago, Berrassobad said:

Wow - cmon - best run in most folks memory and youre dropping the keeper. I will assume its based on love for cg - you gotta let go man - hes in the twilight of his career - an icon of a man - has he complained once ? - this time next year its not even a conversation-  its a terrible thing ageing. regards

 

Tell me about it!

 

 

[Berrassobad]

Way off - International standard keepers within the same team

[Bazzas right boot]

1 hour ago, Chimp said:

Gordon makes saves  Clark cannot - he’s club captain - he’s safer - he makes genuine world class saves - he’s a match winner - he’s a better goalkeeper - play your best players. Regards

 

Stop monkeying around. 

 

 

[Bazzas right boot]

On 16/02/2024 at 20:50, CMc said:

Weird op.

 

Spelling aside, we were incredibly cautious with Beni. Even when he came back, he was in and out of the team. he was absolutely not straight back in. 
 

Gordon has been slotted in to the cup games as soon as he was ready. 
 

This Opposite Day?
 

 

 

Pesky facts.

[lmc1]

If it is 'play your best players' then Gordon should be playing. For me, he plays all day long over Clark. I am not saying Clark has done a lot wrong but he is not on the same level as Gordon, and there will be moments in the next 3 games I can guarantee i will say 'if only Gordon was playing'. All about opinions  🧤

Edited February 18 by lmc1

[Chimp]

22 minutes ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

Stop monkeying around. 

 

 

Next level banter that.

 

edit: a chimp isn’t a monkey 😉

Edited February 18 by Chimp

[Ricardo Quaresma]

Bump!!!!

 

Well, that should be Gordon in for the Derby, hologram for all the goals

 

Could go on, but I'll stop there

[Fejka]

1 minute ago, Ricardo Quaresma said:

Bump!!!!

 

Well, that should be Gordon in for the Derby, hologram for all the goals

 

Could go on, but I'll stop there

Interested to hear why that should be Gordon in now? Hammered 5 nil due to a poor overall team performance and Clark gets the brunt of it. Don’t get it.

[AppleTarts]

11 minutes ago, Fejka said:

Interested to hear why that should be Gordon in now? Hammered 5 nil due to a poor overall team performance and Clark gets the brunt of it. Don’t get it.

 

Clark is fine, he's always been fine but that's the problem, we need better than fine.

Gordon saves that little bit extra - we all know it, so I don't get why we are not playing our best goalkeeper when he is fit and ready.

Edited February 24 by AppleTarts

[Fejka]

1 minute ago, AppleTarts said:

 

Clark is fine, he's always been fine but that's the problem, he's not Gordon.

Gordon saves that little bit extra - we all know it, so I don't get why we are not playing our best goalkeeper when he is fit and ready.

It’s a huge gamble. It’s been over a year since Gordon had started regularly for us. Even before then he was getting criticism for aspects of his own play.
 

Fine is… well it’s fine. In the most recent form if we got the same results what would be the benefit of having a different keeper in the sticks? It’s not a popularity contest. Or maybe for some, it is. 
 

So we drop Clark and Gordon comes in. He’s not the Gordon we all thought and we start to lose games. How long do we stick it out to see if he comes good? How much of the lead in 3rd gets eaten up before we change it again? 
 

Just now we’re in a better position to assess Clark’s performances and if results slip and we can attribute to his performances we’re in a much better position to decide whether we’ve got nothing to lose bringing Gordon in. 

[DS98]

17 minutes ago, Fejka said:

Interested to hear why that should be Gordon in now? Hammered 5 nil due to a poor overall team performance and Clark gets the brunt of it. Don’t get it.

I think because over the past few months there’s been 2 camps. 
 

You’re either - Gordon should be starting games as he’s by far the better keeper. Clark has done well but play your best players

 

Or you’re - Clark should keep the gloves. Gordon is the better ‘keeper but Clark should stay in goals until he has a bad game. 
 

Well, there’s his bad game. So everyone should be in agreement. CG wouldn’t have been able to save the result today as it was a doing. But he makes saves that Zander can’t and that 100% could make a difference on Wednesday. 

[Ricardo Quaresma]

3 minutes ago, DS98 said:

I think because over the past few months there’s been 2 camps. 
 

You’re either - Gordon should be starting games as he’s by far the better keeper. Clark has done well but play your best players

 

Or you’re - Clark should keep the gloves. Gordon is the better ‘keeper but Clark should stay in goals until he has a bad game. 
 

Well, there’s his bad game. So everyone should be in agreement. CG wouldn’t have been able to save the result today as it was a doing. But he makes saves that Zander can’t and that 100% could make a difference on Wednesday. 

 

Correct; simply can't play a 'keeper who has just shipped 5 goals, rather badly and predictably too

[Bauld]

Is it really a bad game when your defence is parting like the red sea to let rangers players run at you? 

 

He didn't have a good game but nobody did and he still pulled off some good saves.

 

The only goal he maybe could have done better with the game was dead 3-4 goals before it.

 

Embarrassing performance all round. This isn't the game that should see him dropped though. You'd have to drop 4-5 others before him if you're saying his performance is the one deserving of it.

[joondalupjambo]

Clark would be hopping mad, raging if he was seen as the fall guy for that performance today against The Rangers and is dropped for the Derby on Wednesday.  My view has always been Clark needs two stinkers in a row, skinkers where he has been clearly responsible for at least one goal in each game.  Then Naismith would need to probably drop him given Gordon is sitting on the wings.

Edited February 24 by joondalupjambo

[OTT]

2 minutes ago, joondalupjambo said:

Clark would be hopping mad, raging if he was seen as the fall guy for that performance today against The Rangers and is dropped for the Derby on Wednesday.  My view has always been Clark needs two stinkers in a row, skinkers where he has been clearly responsible for at least one goal in each game.  Then Naismith would need to probably drop him given Gordon is sitting on the wings.

 

Yep the narrative if he drops him now is basically that he was looking for an excuse to bring Gordon back. Needs another stinker before its justified.